PadWarrior
Member
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT| It's out in Japan
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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The character is the default, the question mark creates a random moveset.
Thank you! Will do. Thanks to smash i can buy club nintendo picross, will download tonight.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
Yes.
That's exactly what happened.
Sakurai changed certain mechanics just to screw over the competitive community.
Exactly.
That's not a stupid fucking line of thinking at all.
The Great Gonzales
Member
yayyy demo
About to take Villager for a spin.
About to take Villager for a spin.
PadWarrior
Member
That's not what he said. Try reading that post again.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I feel like he only did that to 1) lessen the frustration unskilled players have with skilled players and 2) appease the skilled players.
Of course he isn't going to completely give us the shaft. But time and time again if theres something that can lessen the skill gap he will implement it.
No, no, no. It's all about audience. We're arguing over gameplay design based on perceived audience. You're perceived audience is more competitive minded players, while my perceived audience is general players and Nintendo fans. Both can glean the nuances of the game from extended play, and both will. One will surely more than the other. I'm saying a game is poorly designed when the intended audience ceases to get enjoyment out of it because of a ill thought out design choice.
For you, the audience is the more professional, competitive-minded players. I can understand while some design choices may hinder their enjoyment of the game. However, these same mechanics, even if they are not readily apparent to the general audience, I posit, would not negatively affect (and most likely positively affect because of the general intuitiveness of them) the enjoyment of the game.
Subtly and nuance are very important, of course, especially in fighting games. Many players won't actively be aware of them but only be aware of them implicitly. For example, in regards to VI: a casual player might not know the intricacies of VI as much as we do, but they would use it as much because of it's intuitive application and obvious results (as in, holding down while flying up helps them survive). In this way, it's a well designed mechanic because it is simple, clear, and intuitive. The magnitude of the effect is up for debate, but I don't see it affecting the enjoyment of the game from a casual perspective.
I guess my point is that when you look at Smash 4 as a game designed for a general audience, the design choices actually make a lot of sense. Whether or not the subtleties and nuanced mechanics are balanced for competitive play is still up for debate, of course, but I can't say the game is poorly designed because a subset of some of the players don't agree with it.
This thread, barring some discussion about what characters do you like, is already kind of an echo chamber for the competitive folks. And when it's not, it's bantering between people about whose vision of the game is truer.
...and I fail to see how that is even remotely inconsistent with anything. Those are not mutually exclusives objectives.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
1. Calm down. We're discussing a game.
2. That's not what I said. I don't think Sakurai hate's the competitive community. I think he wants to lessen the skill gap as much as possible (which affects the competitive community. His goal is not to affect us, but to lessen the skill gap)
3. Everything he has done since melee (and even his quotes) have proven what I said. So instead of saying my logic is "fucking stupid" why don't you use your superior logic to refute my claims instead of attacking a strawman.
Eh. No not really. It's usually one side (the people complaining about "complainers") that attacks the other with vitriol.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Err competitiveness of a game isn't really based on its design. It's whether a lot of people play it or not.
theprodigy
Member
You can't be serious, people can't discuss something for a page without being shouted down by people like you.
PadWarrior
Member
Yeah it's pretty sad that's it come to this again.
Knockback----Chase them. Off stage play is crucial now.
Ledge Mechanic----Eliminates planking, allows for more off stage play.
Ko bounds----Chase them
The Great Gonzales
Member
Just finished my first match - Villager vs. lv. 3 Mario. The game feels very good: the controls are very responsive, and I had zero problems with the circle pad - no trouble distinguishing between tilts and smash attacks. Really, the biggest problem I had was the jumping: I'm so used to the GCN button configuration that I kept hitting A to jump. L being the grab button is a little weird, too. But I'm sure that soon enough I'll get used to the controls, and then I can always customize them in the full version.
IIRC you can close your 3DS. As long as you don't press the power button it should leave the game running. If not, well, you still have 29 uses.
Hmmm, by my estimation, that'd be a wrong on both counts. For the first, we don't know what the ceiling is (and I'd be willing to bet it isn't anywhere NEAR "as low as possible"). And for the second, high skill ceilings and dept aren't required to have a competitive game. Always love these Sakurai conspiracies though.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
But you don't understand, man. Sakurai's trying to RUIN HIS OWN GAME! That's the only explanation for these things!
In seriousness:
I agree that the blast zones are too big.
I agree that characters live too long now.
I'm not a fan of the new ledge mechanics.
But for fuck's sake, Sakurai did NOT make these decisions because he wanted to ruin competitive play.
Holy Order Sol
Member
The liberal use of the word "competitive" on SmashBoards for the past few years has made things confusing as fuck for pretty much everyone involved.
Also "chase them". The game often won't let you. You're not going to chase people into near blast zones area where you see them in bubbles and make it back. You have to wait for them. That's exactly the problem.
Also "chase them". The game often won't let you. You're not going to chase people into near blast zones area where you see them in bubbles and make it back. You have to wait for them. That's exactly the problem.
Once you get the hang of it, the 3DS controls work surprisingly well for Smash. It feels really great.
JediLink
Member
PadWarrior
Member
Any game where people are trying to win is competitive.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
again calm down. It's just a game. you do not need to get angry because people are concerned with gameplay mechanics. And attacking a strawman does nothing for this thread. No one is saying Sakurai wants to ruin his own game.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
Who's angry?
And no, you're not using the word "ruin," but that's basically what you're saying. "Sakurai intentionally made the game uneven and uncompetitive, oh noes!"
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I agree with the first two, but I've grown to like the idea of the ledge mechanics. You can't edgeguard just by holding on to the edge, and I don't really think that's a bad thing. And you can't plank, which is also not really a bad thing.
Trumping actually improves the off stage/aerial game because you will see characters at the edge and off stage longer. When you come off the edge after being "trumped" you get your second jump back.
Only if you are being obtuse, it's obvious when people talk about "competitive smash" they mean the tournament scene.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Obviously. There wouldn't be issues if people stuck to that.
That's clear as a phrase, I'm talking about things being described allegedly making a game "more" or "less" competitive. Doesn't make much sense as there is going to be a scene for a while anyway.
You can put your 3DS on sleep, just don't close the demo.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
These are fair workarounds. There will always be. But just because there are possible workarounds doesn't mean we can't discuss the implications of the new mechanics in a concerned manner.
OricWindstar
Member
I'm not going to jump in the discussion as I don't have anything particularly important to add to it, but I think everyone will find the vibe of this thread a lot better if people treat each other with respect and don't be condescending. Their is a legitimate conversation worth having here, let's not ruin it with a "I get it and you don't" mentality.
So guys, did you see this on smashboards:
It seems that in order to utilize VI, you have to anticipate the opponent's move and the direction it will send you. I think this will end up greatly benefiting the mix-up game, though if your character has only 1 kill move, they're SOL.
Also:
It seems that in order to utilize VI, you have to anticipate the opponent's move and the direction it will send you. I think this will end up greatly benefiting the mix-up game, though if your character has only 1 kill move, they're SOL.
Also:
Yes, I'm quite the shouter. Look at all the posts I've made to shut these people down over fifteen official threads! /s
It honestly doesn't matter to me who starts these discussions. Could be the casual saying "lol go back to Melee scrub". It could be the competitive, saying "man Smash 4 is Brawl v2 gg sakurai".
It's just slowly dawning on me that I will never be able to partake in the SmashGAF community as I wished to because the endless bickering will never cease between factions that will never concede to one another, where other types of discussions about the game always get drowned out in the end.
"Options"
Polioliolio
Member
Okay. Just played the 3DS demo.
Hrm.
Playing this just makes me wish I could play it on the big screen with a proper controller.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. First, I wish I could change the controls.. so I'm uncomfortable with that, as is.. But the resolution is so low for having the camera zoomed out so far.
Initial impression: Does this need to exist? It seems competently constructed, but it sure feels limiting.
Hrm.
Playing this just makes me wish I could play it on the big screen with a proper controller.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. First, I wish I could change the controls.. so I'm uncomfortable with that, as is.. But the resolution is so low for having the camera zoomed out so far.
Initial impression: Does this need to exist? It seems competently constructed, but it sure feels limiting.
Karsticles
Member
I don't get not liking the new ledge mechanic. What exactly is the downside of this? To me, it creates:
1) More aggressive gameplay opportunities - smack people off a ledge!
2) More balanced recovery options - Ness is no longer easy to ledgeguard.
3) Fewer turtling options.
That all looks great to me.
1) More aggressive gameplay opportunities - smack people off a ledge!
2) More balanced recovery options - Ness is no longer easy to ledgeguard.
3) Fewer turtling options.
That all looks great to me.
After a while of using the demo, I've come to prefer R for shielding/dodging better, specially after realizing I can do R+A for grabs
I played the demo for a while and got used to it, then when I got the full game, I switched them on purpose (because that's how I play melee/brawl) back to L for shield and R for block and it was REALLY confusing for about a day, but now i'm used to it again.
Tried playing the NA demo and it messed me up.
Point is, you can get used to either one if you give it about a day.
You talking about the demo or the 3DS game itself? The answer to both is: Yes.
NA players have to wait 3 weeks for a game they are chomping at the bit for, this is throwing fans a bone and it is one of the nicest things nintendo has done in a long time. Also, the full game is fantastic and I plan on playing it for years to come.
What is wrong with meeting them half way? You don't need to chase them into the blast zones. Just control a smaller area of space and use attacks that don't send them predominately up and out. I've only got the demo but Mario has great tools for doing this. Nair, Fair, Dair (without the final hit pop), Bair, cape, and flood do a great job a pushing out without giving the opponent too much vertical to aid in recovery. I get great gimp kills all the time.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Your avatar combined with your excessive use of expletives, all caps, over-exaggeration, hyperbole, admittance of annoyance, general attitude and attacking a strawman arguments (with exclamation points) tells me you're at the very least not reasonable. Maybe not angry, but certainly not reasonable.
KittenMaster
Member
This is more akin to a legitimate screw up than something put in to deliberately ruin competitive play. A lot of competitive fighting games tend to have mechanics or imbalanced design that are birthed from lack of foresight.
As a semi competitive smash player, I found the demo awkward at first but I'm pretty happy with the game after some extended play time
There's a Wii U version you know
I think it is good to have a portable Smash. Seems a lot of people are enjoying it since it is an instant Smash fix plus can be played anywhere on the go.
And I'm really enjoying the demo. Already collected like 30k coins right now even if only 500 can be carried over.
Gotta link to any of that?
It's on the SmashBoards "Vectoring" thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/vectoring-the-replacement-to-directional-influence-in-smash-4.368780/page-22
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