Support NeoGAF

[Revven]

I'm surprised so many people want to use the d-pad. Was the sideways Wii Remote control scheme really that amazing?

I don't think anyone seriously did, the people who want the D-pad aren't comfortable using the circle pad because it's not "good enough" to control a game like this for them. Even though it would clearly be way more limited in general if they used the D-pad (and I am aware of how it worked on the Wii Remote, doesn't mean it wasn't horrendously limiting).

I'm sure people who want the D-pad will be using the actual analogue stick on the Wii U. It's only a common complaint because of the way the circle pad is designed (aka not really for this game).

 

[Timeaisis]

I'm getting pretty annoyed fighting lvl 9 Mario in the demo. It's like impossible to punish him for anything. I still win most of the time, but I hate having to go to sudden death just because I couldn't get a single kill in 2 minutes. All Mario does is smash attack and I just have to piddle away at him from a distance as Villager. Seriously all of Mario's smashes have like zero endlag.

I won't have a problem beating lvl 9 CPUs once I can get rid of the shitty time limit but it's still frustrating when I can't get a KO within 2 minutes. Any tips for for Villager or in general?

Mario is for sure the hardest level 9 in the demo. It doesn't help he spams air dodge like nobody's business.

Your best bet is just keeping up with his damage to you, and being better at killing.

I can kill most CPUs every match, but Mario still gives me shit sometimes. Besides, real people don't spam air dodge like that, and it's possible to punish them.

 

[Kjellson]

You'll get to move on from Melee until M2K writes a thesis about how Smash 4 sucks and everyone listens to him instead of forming their own opinion.

Maybe not sucks, but

 

[ffdgh]

Maybe not sucks, but

Welp smash 4 is dead. Back to melee and project M. /s

 

[Storm Kyleis]

I can't seem to find info about the replay feature. What's the file format for videos? Any upload option?

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Maybe not sucks, but

Would he rather have Melee 2?

 

[Shamrock7r]

Maybe not sucks, but

Good. I prefer a lot of Brawl's mechanics over Melee. If aggressive play is more rewarded in Smash4, while retaining Brawl's playstyle, then I will be really happy.

 

[JoeInky]

Would he rather have Melee 2?

He probably would, but what he's saying there isn't necessarily saying it sucks, he played a lot of Brawl as well as Melee.


Smash 4 is Brawl 2 though, but not in the "It's [as bad as] Brawl again" sense and more of a "It's very similar to Brawl but they fixed some things"

Personally I'd say they fixed some things but kept quite a few problems and some of them even got worse, but that's not going to be the general consensus on things (and by general I mean the Smash audience at large, rather than the competitive community).

 

[Polioliolio]

I'm surprised so many people want to use the d-pad. Was the sideways Wii Remote control scheme really that amazing?

I don't know if it was amazing, but you can't go wrong with a D-pad in a 2D game, if anything, it'll make things easier.

No in between. You're either neutral, tilting, or running with a double tap.


Has anyone started a petition?

The Circle Slider is seriously hampering a good time here.

 

[Revven]

Maybe not sucks, but

When he said that, I don't think he meant anything else by it other than how it feels -- not that the game sucks because it plays more like Brawl. Also, I think that comment was from before the game was out and was based on the E3 build.

 

[JoeInky]

In the time it takes you to double tap the dpad, you will have already lost to the superior stick user, this is fact.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I don't know if it was amazing, but you can't go wrong with a D-pad in a 2D game, if anything, it'll make things easier.

Yup, for a 2D side scrolling game, d-pad just makes more sense. Analog is excellent for 3D, but in a 2D game, you want to hit the button to the limited immediately.

 

[QisTopTier]

All I know is that it was hilarious when he said he didn't really like it and liked Melee a lot more, then turn around and confessed 4 minutes later that he only played it for 4 hours.

 

[Polioliolio]

In the time it takes you to double tap the dpad, you will have already lost to the superior stick user, this is fact.

Takahashi Meijin could press a button 16 times in one second.
I think pressing a button twice quickly isn't too slow.

Also, the distance between a button and it's depressed state is considerably shorter than the distance between an analogue stick in neutral compared to it's furthest reaches to the left or right.

So I kindly disagree.

 

[Diprosalic]

i want sakurai to implement dpad controls so i can beat up more scrubs online.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Takahashi Meijin could press a button 16 times in one second.
I think pressing a button twice quickly isn't too slow.

Also, the distance between a button and it's depressed state is considerably shorter than the distance between an analogue stick in neutral compared to it's furthest reaches to the left or right.

So I kindly disagree.

High level competitive play, you will not be able to keep up with the Dpad. Sorry. I'm sure it would be fine against some cpus and the 1 player mode though.

 

[SuperBowser]

i think it's lame for a pro player to write a simplistic statement like that but he's entitled to his opinion. i'd also agree this game is similar to brawl but being brawl 2 is not necessarily bad. it's dumb for anyone to ever expect melee 2, that simply wasn't the direction smash was going.

if smash 4 turns out as defensive as brawl and devolves to shields, spamming and running away competitive players are more than entitled to be annoyed. we don't know that yet and offense options definitely seem better this time.

 

[JoeInky]

The offensive options are better, when looked at in a vacuum, but I think because of the fact that there are also buffs to the defensive options, the gap between the two is still bigger than what I would have found most enjoyable.


Also, Dpad users will get their chance with the WiiU version. I'd like to play the 3DS version with a controller that didn't hurt my hands, but I'm stuck with what we've got.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Even if Smash 4 doesn't become a tournament mainstay, it seems the game is objectively funner than Brawl for both casuals and professionals alike, which is good enough imo. I'm a "casual", and I like many elements of Brawl, but I definitely think Smash 4 feels better to play overall.

 

[Revven]

i think it's lame for a pro player to write a simplistic statement like that but he's entitled to his opinion. i'd also agree this game is similar to brawl but being brawl 2 is not necessarily bad. it's dumb for anyone to ever expect melee 2, that simply wasn't the direction smash was going.

That's how M2K is, he isn't socially aware of a lot of things (he has some form of autism). He's blunt/to the point. Unfortunately, he has a large enough following in the scene that often his bluntness and opinions get taken as gospel by those people.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Still think Touch-Screen Controls would've rocked.

 

[Polioliolio]

High level competitive play, you will not be able to keep up with the Dpad. Sorry. I'm sure it would be fine against some cpus and the 1 player mode though.

If it's D-pad vs. Circle Slider, I think D-pad users will have no problem.

Also, we're talking binary input. I'm still sticking to pressing a flat button twice can be done just as quickly as slapping that circle slider all the way to the left or right.
There's also landing lag and other animations between actions where you input could be entered and performed as soon as the delaying event has finished.

Also, Dpad users will get their chance with the WiiU version. I'd like to play the 3DS version with a controller that didn't hurt my hands, but I'm stuck with what we've got.

The thing is, I don't need to use a D-pad in the WiiU version. Those analog sticks are tolerable.. great even. The circle slider is an abomination, and D-pads have been around since gaming has been in infancy, so we know they work.

I wouldn't be surprised if they forced the shitty controls on us so we'd be more inclined to buy the more playable WiiU version in case we were on the fence about it or thought the handheld game would be enough.

 

[Fandangox]

I honestly don't see what's the problem with the 3DS controls, most of my issues were with button layout/ergonomics and the shoulder buttons.

 

[JoeM86]

Why are people so quick to label things.

It is not Brawl 2.0
It's not Melee 3.0
Brawl was not Melee 2.0

They are their own entities. They aren't the same, they have different physics, mechanics etc.

It really irks me to see people say that. If you don't like it, then fine, but don't be like that. If it has to be a number, then it's Super Smash Bros. 4 and that's that

</OldManRant>

 

[SuperBowser]

The offensive options are better, when looked at in a vacuum, but I think because of the fact that there are also buffs to the defensive options, the gap between the two is still bigger than what I would have found most enjoyable.

what are the buffs to defensive play? i'm basing my opinions off my time with the demo and streams so i've still got a limited view. i feel it's a lot harder to simply spam and shield your way through a match which was the biggest problem with brawl.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Why are people so quick to label things.

It is not Brawl 2.0
It's not Melee 3.0
Brawl was not Melee 2.0

They are their own entities. They aren't the same, they have different physics, mechanics etc.

It really irks me to see people say that. If you don't like it, then fine, but don't be like that.

Yeah I won't have the game for 2 weeks but Brawl is Brawl, Melee is Melee and Smash 4 is Smash 4.

Base a game on what it does and not what a previous entry did.

 

[johnbone]

I hope you guys quoting the M2K comment know it's back from E3, and that he has since changed his opinion.

Spoiler

He does that a lot.

 

[ratcliffja]

I just watched Iggy's Mega Man from last night. He plays him a lot like me but with a little more use of the metal blades (which are a lot more useful than they seem at first). I still think his down smash is too laggy/punishable to be used effectively, though. I'm surprised he didn't use more top spin, actually. Granted I've only been playing against level 9 CPUs, but it's one of my most effective moves.

 

[JoeM86]

Yeah I won't have the game for 2 weeks but Brawl is Brawl, Melee is Melee and Smash 4 is Smash 4.

Base a game on what it does and not what a previous entry did.

Exactly. That's the issue I'm seeing. So many are trying to compare it to Melee and to Brawl and then complaining when it doesn't mesh.

 

[Rran]

I missed out when everybody was posting theirs, but whatevs. Here's my Smash lineup...

 

[lwilliams3]

That's how M2K is, he isn't socially aware of a lot of things (he has some form of autism). He's blunt/to the point. Unfortunately, he has a large enough following in the scene that often his bluntness and opinions get taken as gospel by those people.

Hey Revven. I have not been following the threads that much, but has there also been numerous changes to the final game vs the E3 demo? I recall people complaining about the landing lag and "being afraid to attack" due to the heavy emphasis on committing to an attack, for example, but that only seems to be giving to the more powerful moves, correct?

 

[Revven]

Exactly. That's the issue I'm seeing. So many are trying to compare it to Melee and to Brawl and then complaining when it doesn't mesh.

The screenshot of M2K's comment was based on the E3 build, not the final retail release that he's gotten to play now. His opinion has changed, I'm pretty sure. I'm not sure what it is now, though.

Hey Revven. I have not been following the threads that much, but has there also been numerous changes to the final game vs the E3 demo? I recall people complaining about the landing lag and "being afraid to attack" due to the heavy emphasis on committing to an attack, for example, but that only seems to be giving to the more powerful moves, correct?

According to people who have played the E3 build, there were definitely some changes made to the game. However, the landing lag stuff may have been overblown to some degree by some folks that played the E3 build. In general, landing lag is distributed in a more sensible way than was let on by the people who played the earlier build. However, this doesn't mean that landing lag for some moves weren't adjusted between the games -- Falcon's knee, for example, does have more landing lag than it ever has. And I'm pretty sure Marth's Nair (based on footage alone) is not nearly as lagless as it was in Brawl. So some moves did receive some minor landing lag adjustments but it's not to the point where you won't want to approach.

Characters with moves that don't need a lot of commitment are probably going to wind up being very good (i.e Sheik, Bowser, ZSS, MK, Kirby, Jiggs, etc etc). But that's just my own assumption/prediction and nothing you should take seriously yet.

 

[JoeM86]

The screenshot of M2K's comment was based on the E3 build, not the final retail release that he's gotten to play now. His opinion has changed, I'm pretty sure. I'm not sure what it is now, though.

Perhaps, but I still see comments like that to this day, not from him, but around the net.

 

[boxter432]

are there good any vids of Cpt Falcon or G&W (my 2 favorite characters)? haven't seen much (a little 2 on 2 with a falcon).

 

[SmithnCo]

I hope Magicant is in the WiiU version so they can fit in the Flying Man theme.

 

[PadWarrior]

Who cares what m2k says.

 

[Revven]

Perhaps, but I still see comments like that to this day, not from him, but around the net.

That mentality is always going to persist. The people who say that were never and are never going to play Smash 4 so there's really no reason to pay any attention to them. The people who actually matter, like D1 (as an example) seem to really like the game so far -- the people who actually attend tournaments are who matters. Not what some random joe schmoe says on a forum.

 

[Durden77]

Who cares what m2k says.

Who cares what Metacritic says?

Face it, that's the way this age works. Opinions are hard, please form them for me.

Lawlin into the night

 

[Hinchy]

Mario is for sure the hardest level 9 in the demo.

Interesting that you say that. I'm mostly playing Mega Man, and I've gotten pretty consistent at beating Mario, but holy hell can I not kill Pikachu for shit.

 

[PKrockin]

I hope Magicant is in the WiiU version so they can fit in the Flying Man theme.

oh man

Who cares what m2k says.

ZeRo says it's more like Brawl and rewards people who played Brawl. He still likes it.

 

[theprodigy]

Maybe not sucks, but

and how long ago was this message

 

[MagiusNecros]

Exactly. That's the issue I'm seeing. So many are trying to compare it to Melee and to Brawl and then complaining when it doesn't mesh.

That's because they want a game that plays exactly like said game. Pitiful really.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Yeah I won't have the game for 2 weeks but Brawl is Brawl, Melee is Melee and Smash 4 is Smash 4.

Base a game on what it does and not what a previous entry did.

The thing is...these games aren't made in a vacuum. They are built on previous entries with many similarities and differences in mechanics and aesthetics and ideas. Its only natural to compare it to previous installments; anything otherwise just seems, I don't know, kinda stupid?

 

[PadWarrior]

oh man


ZeRo says it's more like Brawl and rewards people who played Brawl. He still likes it.

I honestly don't care what any of them say. Their opinions mean nothing to me. I can form my own view on it.

 

[boxter432]

and how long ago was this message

21 min ago...duh!

I love how it is NOTHING like Melee, but is exactly like brawl lol.

 

[PKrockin]

Guys, people who say Smash 4 is like Brawl are not even necessarily insulting it. Calm down.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The thing is...these games aren't made in a vacuum. They are built on previous entries with many similarities and differences in mechanics and aesthetics and ideas. Its only natural to compare it to previous installments; anything otherwise just seems, I don't know, kinda stupid?

Comparisons should only be made in accordance to what Smash 4 does well and what it sucks at. Not to the point where someone objectively likes a past entry better and can't see past that. It doesn't really help future installments.

 

[theprodigy]

21 min ago...duh!

not sure if serious

 

[Durden77]

Is anyone else worried the the Wii U version is literally going to be the same game as the 3DS version, but in HD and possibly with an extra mode or two?

I mean we all know the gameplay is going to be the same, which is cool, but what about technical stuff? Like 1 pokeball/assist trophy at a time, and glubglubglub mouths?

I'm starting to get the feeling that it's really just going to be an HD skin, and that the game is still going to to be pretty much running on a 3DS.

 

[emb]

Comparisons should only be made in accordance to what Smash 4 does well and what it sucks at. Not to the point where someone objectively likes a past entry better and can't see past that. It doesn't really help future installments.

It would if Nintendo ever listened. :\

Is anyone else worried the the Wii U version is literally going to be the same game as the 3DS version, but in HD and possibly with an extra mode or two?

I mean we all know the gameplay is going to be the same, which is cool, but what about technical stuff? Like 1 pokeball/assist trophy at a time, and glubglubglub mouths?

I'm starting to get the feeling that it's really just going to be an HD skin, and that the game is still going to to be pretty much running on a 3DS.

If nothing else we'll have different modes. I think it'll be fine!

But it'd be nice if they'd make small changes here and there I guess. Having ~&#8734; Pokeballs possible at once would be a great first step.