Save 'N Quit
Banned
If Rosalina's only nerf is the 5 second extension then that's fine.
She kicks so much ass by herself anyway.
She kicks so much ass by herself anyway.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT3| Little Mac and Cheese
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Ness changes I'd like to see:
- PK Flash no longer puts you into special fall.
- Decreased startup time on bat.
- Up tilt is now a functional attack.
- Ness now uses a yoyo as a tether grab.
- PK Flash now breaks shields at full charge.
- PK Fire now ignites the opponent, dealing damage over time for the remainder of the stock.
- PSI Magnet now reflects solid projectiles.
- PSI Magnet now explodes upon release.
- PSI Magnet is now a counter.
- Ness now has a second, unblockable bat that he swings concurrently with the first.
- An opponent who gimps Ness by interrupting his PK Thunder is now instantly meteor smashed.
- PK Flash no longer puts you into special fall.
- Decreased startup time on bat.
- Up tilt is now a functional attack.
- Ness now uses a yoyo as a tether grab.
- PK Flash now breaks shields at full charge.
- PK Fire now ignites the opponent, dealing damage over time for the remainder of the stock.
- PSI Magnet now reflects solid projectiles.
- PSI Magnet now explodes upon release.
- PSI Magnet is now a counter.
- Ness now has a second, unblockable bat that he swings concurrently with the first.
- An opponent who gimps Ness by interrupting his PK Thunder is now instantly meteor smashed.
I just had the stupidest death ever.
I did a really good edgeguard on a pretty good charizard, he'd used his recovery and was special falling to his death.
Now - for some reason - my brain thought "You should totally rest KO him off the top"... and I did.
To my horror, instead of instantly dying off the top, just like every fucking other grounded rest I do, he flew straight at the screen, staring at me as I fell and lost.
I did a really good edgeguard on a pretty good charizard, he'd used his recovery and was special falling to his death.
Now - for some reason - my brain thought "You should totally rest KO him off the top"... and I did.
To my horror, instead of instantly dying off the top, just like every fucking other grounded rest I do, he flew straight at the screen, staring at me as I fell and lost.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Neat.
Palutena buffs... possibly confirmed?
It can't be equipment related since it's default Palutena in that video, but there is a good chance that there are some passive buffs that the event is giving Palutena some passive buffs, since Ganondorf is doing less damage than he should there. If these are legit buffs though... crazy pummel aside, it's a little underwhelming, IMO. RIP useful f-tilt or d-tilt. Not sure moving damage percents up a bit will help Palutena's major issues, but this isn't indicative of the full breadth of changes if this is legit.
From this post.
It can't be equipment related since it's default Palutena in that video, but there is a good chance that there are some passive buffs that the event is giving Palutena some passive buffs, since Ganondorf is doing less damage than he should there. If these are legit buffs though... crazy pummel aside, it's a little underwhelming, IMO. RIP useful f-tilt or d-tilt. Not sure moving damage percents up a bit will help Palutena's major issues, but this isn't indicative of the full breadth of changes if this is legit.
Why are you so down on Palutena? The tilts aren't pokes. They're more like anti-air dodge-spot dodge-roll moves. Palutena already has the speeds and some fantastic fair-bair-dash attack setups.
http://youtu.be/8pDV9AHKRBg
You make moves useful by using them. Good old fashion folded moves (attacks that cover each others weaknesses making them good to use back to back) and conditioning work wonders for Palutena's tilts.
F-tilt has 'uses' (read: incredibly situational situations generally served better by another move), but you can't honestly tell me that Palutena doesn't have something better she can do like 99% of the time. A move isn't inherently useful by the act of using it. I'm sure I could 'use' Ganondorf's u-tilt. And maybe in a really specific instance, it'll work out. That doesn't make it useful. F-tilt is laggy on start-up and end, easy to react to, and if you want to punish a roll, you should just grab and get something way more rewarding and less risky off of it than her f-tilt. Did you see how many times that Aerolink actually went for a tilt over an aerial at any point in that video? Yes, I'm well aware that Palutena has a really solid aerial game. She has to because her grounded options basically come down to hard reads, grabs, specials (which is highly match-up/custom dependent), and dash attacks. Any of her other normals off the ground will compromise you in almost any situation.
U-tilt's disjoint, damage, and linger make it useful for some specific, but fairly reasonable situations. On the other hand, f-tilt and d-tilt 'solve' problems that they can't excel at and often create bad situations rather than solve them. Making them slightly better than less than worthless in most situations is, I don't think, a very controversial position. Otherwise, I'd rather not be trying things purely to justify using a move rather than letting it speak for itself.
I posted the Aerolink because his style is the opposite of mine. I dodge less and focus on building smarter traps with subtle movement and tilt counters. BTW, he's local and I've known him for years. We're the only ones using Palutena at this point. There's still so much to understand about how to use moves.
The real point is you make your moves work by working them in to your overall strategy. Sounds like you know the basics well. From there the better players will push ahead and make it work. I don't like the idea of buffing things because we don't understand them yet.
I like that her tilt normals aren't "normal." It makes her feel and play less like a traditional Smash bros character.
I just don't think being different inherently justifies them. I mean, I like when moves defy certain standards (like Megaman up-tilt basically being its' own Smash attack or the Villager's slingshot), but it's frustrating when something feels held back for the sake of being different. And I know that we don't know how to 'use' moves yet, but I think the trend will be less people finding more and better ways to start using forward tilt or down tilt and more people figuring out how to better punish and react to it. It's a more likely trend to find in general with highly situational moves like these, and I haven't seen a new and crazy property about f-tilt or d-tilt that points to a clear advantage to using it in the game that Smash 4 is now and is likely to become. I look at f-tilt and its' mediocre damage, incredibly punishable window, and low reward, and I don't get lost in the infinite possibility that extends before me; I just want a better move. Maybe I'll be wrong a year from now, but I don't think her tilts are moves that have a big sea of potential waiting to be discovered for what we already know they are.
RomanceDawn
Member
Any DK mains out there?
I've been incorporating mid air downB into my usual tactics and it is steadily becoming my go to spike!
In just about any DK video I can find or when ever there is one in a tournament no one uses that move. It's completely unserstandsble as well because of the major lag DK received after using it just over the ground. Not to mention it was never an option in any Smash before this one so it totally doesn't register in our brains that it's even available to use.
If I'm not mistaken it has less knock back(knock down?) power than Fair or Dair but it lasts longer with 2 hits making the actual spike sooooo much easier than the other two options that we know and love.
This is best done over the edge and not over the ground. Timing those spikes can be a little difficult but even if you miss the first hit(which only stuns) the second hit still has a chance to spike and I've noticed people just not expecting it at all because no one ever uses it!
It's worked really well so far on characters with a little more predictable recoveries when chasing them off the edge.
I think it's DK's next big thing. Though people will undoubtedly get wise to it, I think it's easier to connect because of the double hit and because the hit boxes are somewhat diagonal-down-forward on DK instead of directly bellow him or in front.
DK guys just toy with it while you are giving chase off the ledges.
I've been incorporating mid air downB into my usual tactics and it is steadily becoming my go to spike!
In just about any DK video I can find or when ever there is one in a tournament no one uses that move. It's completely unserstandsble as well because of the major lag DK received after using it just over the ground. Not to mention it was never an option in any Smash before this one so it totally doesn't register in our brains that it's even available to use.
If I'm not mistaken it has less knock back(knock down?) power than Fair or Dair but it lasts longer with 2 hits making the actual spike sooooo much easier than the other two options that we know and love.
This is best done over the edge and not over the ground. Timing those spikes can be a little difficult but even if you miss the first hit(which only stuns) the second hit still has a chance to spike and I've noticed people just not expecting it at all because no one ever uses it!
It's worked really well so far on characters with a little more predictable recoveries when chasing them off the edge.
I think it's DK's next big thing. Though people will undoubtedly get wise to it, I think it's easier to connect because of the double hit and because the hit boxes are somewhat diagonal-down-forward on DK instead of directly bellow him or in front.
DK guys just toy with it while you are giving chase off the ledges.
KittenMaster
Member
I play DK on occasion, it never occurred to me to try Down B in mid-air.
I do know that if you just tap Down + B on the ground you can escape the animation after hitting the opponent, but it's very hard to remember not to press the button more than once.
I do know that if you just tap Down + B on the ground you can escape the animation after hitting the opponent, but it's very hard to remember not to press the button more than once.
KittenMaster
Member
Default Up + B is just fine, actually, but Down B can punish rolls as well.
Nocturnowl
Member
Coming to think of it I have had slightly greater success spiking with it compared to the altered down air, not sure if it's the next big thing or anything like that but it seems good enough.
Speaking of down B after toying around with some customs its funny how going the electric route for Giant Punch and handslap sort of swaps their properties with handslap becoming a high knockback killer even in the air.
Coolbgdog12
Member
I just bought this and it makes a huge difference in comfort.
(Not my pictures)
(Not my pictures)
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Momentum Wario will be missed.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Just got the Dededecide win on Karsticles. Feels good.
Masked Man
I said wow
Not confirmed yet, since it's just an event. While I would love some buffs for my goddess, I don't want to set myself up for disappointment. :/
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Yea
, all she really needs is less lag on tilts and smashes and I think she can be great.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Thanks for the matches Karsticles. I need to recharge. I like the reverse Dropkick Bowser can do.
Karsticles
Member
Damn it, I am not yet satisfied! I was having too much fun. First order of business when you recharge is a Dorf rematch. GGs!
Could you not punish those nairs I was doing with Ike? It was my first time using him, so I am not sure how safe those really are. Did you try shield grabbing and fortress?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I think I was getting some input lag. Couldn't react fast enough. Though Dedede battles though.
With Ike's Air attacks they have a lot of range. So they are hard to punish I need to learn how to get around them.
And Meta Knight is still hard to use. But I love him.
Masked Man
I said wow
Yea
Yeah, the starting and ending lag on basically everything that isn't her jab (including her counter) is so frustrating. Help us, Based Sakurai!
Most of her aerials are pretty fast, honestly. F-air is practically instantaneous. It's Palutena's ground-game that suffers the most from start up/end lag issues.
Masked Man
I said wow
Ah, sorry--I was referring specifically to her ground-based attacks. :3 I love her aerials!
I know what I'm watching for the rest of the night
Honestly the only changes I want for Palutena are faster tilts with less cool down and fixed hitboxes on all of her smash attacks. Everything else I love about her.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
If they're going to go p2p, can we at least sort by connection? So fucking sick of getting stuck with shit random's connections.
Karsticles
Member
A guy on Smashboards has the game, and he says air dodge cancels are still in. He also says you can set multiple buttons to one input.
Every time I see Japanese characters...
So many lessons that Smash could learn from Skullgirls.
Professor Beef
Banned
fixed
SoldnerKei
Member
Filia for Smash confirmed
thou yeah, I have been getting some laggy matches in for glory, and a lots of marios... I hate mario
MisterLuffy
Member
Ok, this is me being salty. Whoever is Jejae, I hate you so much. This guy used Falcon, Ganondorf, Mario, Wario, and Bowser against my Palutena and I lost to those characters. I made a lot of errors that caused me the losses. Any tips against these characters, especially Falcon since he's fast?
shiek is not even that great
she's just fast. can't kill for shit unless you get hit by a down b.
as the game evolves she's going to drop down the tiers
I think lesser characters should get buffed to her level, but calling for nerfs are ridiculous I think. What's so great about Sheik that needs to be nerfed? She is a very balanced character imo.
I agree. Shiek just looks strong. She jumps around a lot, hits you many times and just rushes you down. But then you look at your damage-meter and she did only weak damage. Even worst as longer you fight, it is harder for here to connect strings of attack and at the same time, she can't get you KOed. Shiek players just have to work double as hard and have to look stronger to control the battle.
Spinosaurus
Member
They should compensate getting rid of Wario's momentum glitch by giving him back his Brawl aerial mobility.
She does have issues killing. Bouncing Fish is great if you can get them off stage first. The problem with it is that better players seem to react pretty solidly too it. You can still get a bair or up B but you have to be really careful with the position or get a bit luck. For some reason double jump then BF when opponent is high off the stage seems to catch people a lot. Other than that, Uair/UpB mixups while they come down from a throw seem like the best bet. Bair works sometimes, but situations where you can sweetspot it seem seldom. If they get to really high percents run off fair while they recover is also an option.
Exactly. It helps to feel like you have a lot of momentum, but at the end of the day she has to get other characters to a much higher percent to find reliable kills.
But this could all be a case of complaining about the character I play. That seems to be a common trend among anyone who plays any character. "Oh? My character's not really that strong." I've seen it for every Melee character, even Fox.
This isn't about "justifying" anything. It's a game made by a person/people. All of their arbitrary choices are what we have to deal with. Either Palutena is not for you or the game isn't. "feels held back"? "want a better move"? I get what you're saying. But moves have drawbacks. Giving moves pros and cons is all a part of making games fun and balanced.
Pros: disjointed hit box. Multi hitting. Long lasting hits.
Cons: Recovery time. Damage. Knockback.
Considering that Palutena is fast and she has some of the best defensive and offensive aerials, these tilts fit well. Fair, bair, and dash attack are great by their all single hitting and can't be repeated much in the air. Mix that up with these tilts and you have some good ways to counter an opponent looking to shield grab or move in around your airs. If they roll, mix in down smashes or just use your speed. With super speed and light weight Palutena gets even faster.
And don't forget Smash is also played in doubles and FFA. Not every move is going to shine in for Glory.
Chû Totoro
Member
So I have modified my controls on 3DS like this :
- A or B : Jump
- X : special
- Y : smash attack
- L : shield
- R : grab
Does a lot of people are doing this? I know I may have to make the same changes on Wii U to feel comfortable but I'm not sure it's the best way for becoming a very good player. I just made these changes because jump and shield are more natural for me this way.
Jump as A or B because I play a lot of platforming I guess (even if I don't use jump here on others fighting games lol)
Shield because it seems my brains ties a virtual shield to my right hand.
I usually only change the low / middle / high buttons on more classical fighting games so I'm king of lost here and I'm not sure it won't bother me when I'll reach a certain level and bad habits can stay here forever :/
Out of curiosity how are your buttons layouts? and why?
note : SSB is awesome btw. I can't play anything else on my 3DS (bought Shovel Knight but bought it also on Wii U the day after because of this)
- A or B : Jump
- X : special
- Y : smash attack
- L : shield
- R : grab
Does a lot of people are doing this? I know I may have to make the same changes on Wii U to feel comfortable but I'm not sure it's the best way for becoming a very good player. I just made these changes because jump and shield are more natural for me this way.
Jump as A or B because I play a lot of platforming I guess (even if I don't use jump here on others fighting games lol)
Shield because it seems my brains ties a virtual shield to my right hand.
I usually only change the low / middle / high buttons on more classical fighting games so I'm king of lost here and I'm not sure it won't bother me when I'll reach a certain level and bad habits can stay here forever :/
Out of curiosity how are your buttons layouts? and why?
note : SSB is awesome btw. I can't play anything else on my 3DS (bought Shovel Knight but bought it also on Wii U the day after because of this)
theprodigy
Member
Swtiching A/B with X/Y would drive me crazy to no end.Chû Totoro;138684952 said:So I have modified my controls on 3DS like this :
- A or B : Jump
- X : special
- Y : smash attack
- L : shield
- R : grab
Does a lot of people are doing this? I know I may have to make the same changes on Wii U to feel comfortable but I'm not sure it's the best way for becoming a very good player. I just made these changes because jump and shield are more natural for me this way.
Jump as A or B because I play a lot of platforming I guess (even if I don't use jump here on others fighting games lol)
Shield because it seems my brains ties a virtual shield to my right hand.
I usually only change the low / middle / high buttons on more classical fighting games so I'm king of lost here and I'm not sure it won't bother me when I'll reach a certain level and bad habits can stay here forever :/
Out of curiosity how are your buttons layouts? and why?
note : SSB is awesome btw. I can't play anything else on my 3DS (bought Shovel Knight but bought it also on Wii U the day after because of this)
Whatever works for you though. Switching L and R makes sense, since Z/R on the GCN/64 controller was always on the right side of the controller. But on a Cube controller, I use R for shield and of course Z for grab, so I expect both to be on the right finger. Having them on separate shoulder buttons is weird to me. Personally I tend to leave my controls as the defaults. That way if I'm ever at another setup I don't have to try and switch them.