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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
I am going to compare these two to us.

First off, Raykz doesn't seem to be a very patient player. He never tries to get away and fully charge SB, and he doesn't hold on to a fully charged SB for a long time. His defense is very bad compared to yours. He recovered from off-stage in a way that made it possible to edgeguard, whereas you recover so deep and low that an edgeguard is really hard. He also seems to recover in the same way most of the time. His combo game is similar to yours, but he hardly uses Mewtwo's nair which is what I have the most trouble with. I know for sure that you have more Yoshi experience than him, but a lot of mistakes he made were general mistakes and not just Yoshi match-up mistakes.

Sky was playing very aggressively. He didn't want to give Mewtwo time to charge a SB, and Mewtwo didn't have time a lot, even if Raykz wasn't trying to give himself space. Sky pretty much used fairs until they hit. He uses utilt a lot more than me, and this is something I noticed when he was playing ZeRo on Twitch. He doesn't really stay back and use eggs, and just uses them to try and extend combos. I noticed he didn't grab a lot, even though it is pretty good against Mewtwo. Overall, it seemed to be a lot fair, uair, dair, and jab combos. Pure aggression, and the Mewtwo was allowing him to do all of this. Maybe I should try this against you. Their matches were 1-2 minutes shorter than ours.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Oh yeah, and Raykz said that these matches are better evidence of the matchup than his against you, because you're just a Fair spammer. I told him that Sky doesn't get the matchup, and wasn't playing as smart as you do in this situation. By all means, play like this the next time we spar, though.

You did better against Raykz than Sky did, IMO. Sky definitely has better offense than you, but he never cools down or plays defense. He blocks like...once per set.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Karsticles said:
I agree.

Oh yeah, and Raykz said that these matches are better evidence of the matchup than his against you, because you're just a Fair spammer. I told him that Sky doesn't get the matchup, and wasn't playing as smart as you do in this situation. By all means, play like this the next time we spar, though.

You did better against Raykz than Sky did, IMO. Sky definitely has better offense than you, but he never cools down or plays defense. He blocks like...once per set.
Click to expand...

He went full Yoshi

And you never go full Yoshi

Silent Storm said:
Still here boss?
Click to expand...
Yessir
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
I agree.

Oh yeah, and Raykz said that these matches are better evidence of the matchup than his against you, because you're just a Fair spammer. I told him that Sky doesn't get the matchup, and wasn't playing as smart as you do in this situation. By all means, play like this the next time we spar, though.

You did better against Raykz than Sky did, IMO. Sky definitely has better offense than you, but he never cools down or plays defense. He blocks like...once per set.
Click to expand...

After seeing your improvement in the match-up and as a Mewtwo, I think the match-up is 60:40 at worst for Mewtwo. I find it funny how I am a fair spammer when it seemed like Sky used it a lot more than me. That was easily his most used move. It was working though, so I don't blame Sky for using it. To get that many fairs to land against you would be very difficult with your defend and punish style.

I am not saying I will be successful playing like Sky, but full aggression seemed to work out for him. I didn't hear the sound of SB charging a lot like I usually do. :p

Yeah, but Raykz was tired. That is the only reason I bet him 4-0, with a bigger lead each match.
 
A

Anonymous Tipster

Member
Raykz sounds like a chump.

That's my two cents.


Edit: I watched three of his games with Sky and wasn't really impressed. I know Nami rocked him before, have you done dittos with him Karst? Seems to me you would have your way with him as well.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Shamrock7r said:
I am going to buy the K.Rool outfit and name him "Salt.K.Rool". Can't believe so many people care about that character
Click to expand...

I have no idea what it is. Some is this sort of Donkey Kong persecution complex, some people just have some inexplicable strong affinity for him. I think it's a really unappealing design, especially compared to how good Bowser looks in this game.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
After seeing your improvement in the match-up and as a Mewtwo, I think the match-up is 60:40 at worst for Mewtwo. I find it funny how I am a fair spammer when it seemed like Sky used it a lot more than me. That was easily his most used move. It was working though, so I don't blame Sky for using it. To get that many fairs to land against you would be very difficult with your defend and punish style.

I am not saying I will be successful playing like Sky, but full aggression seemed to work out for him. I didn't hear the sound of SB charging a lot like I usually do. :p

Yeah, but Raykz was tired. That is the only reason I bet him 4-0, with a bigger lead each match.
Click to expand...
There wasn't a lot of shielding going on from Raykz, either. Sometimes he got whacked by 3 Fairs in a row and I took a step back. I think most of your damage against me comes from Egg Toss and the command grab because I tend to be defensive.

I think it is telling that Sky almost never went for a grab.

Shamrock7r said:
I am going to buy the K.Rool outfit and name him "Salt.K.Rool". Can't believe so many people care about that character
Click to expand...
King.K.Salt IMO.

Anonymous Tipster said:
Raykz sounds like a chump.

That's my two cents.


Edit: I watched three of his games with Sky and wasn't really impressed. I know Nami rocked him before, have you done dittos with him Karst? Seems to me you would have your way with him as well.
Click to expand...
I haven't played against him. Been too busy with summer projects the last week or so. So tired. :(

I also do really poorly in mirror matches. I psyche myself out.
 
S

SeanR1221

Member
I have to ask and I don't know where else to.

The vast majority of matches I play online anymore are people just standing and they won't attack you unless you attack them. I feel like I'm constantly being trolled.

Anyone else get this?
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
There wasn't a lot of shielding going on from Raykz, either. Sometimes he got whacked by 3 Fairs in a row and I took a step back. I think most of your damage against me comes from Egg Toss and the command grab because I tend to be defensive.

I think it is telling that Sky almost never went for a grab.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that too. Two fairs isn't guaranteed because you can tech or air dodge if you don't tech, and three is just ridiculous. Although I do remember a match I play against Romance Dawn where I did like three fairs across that stage as he never teched, and then I almost got a fourth when he was finally off-stage. That would've been an amazing kill.

I like some of the combos Sky went for. I have never even tried to go for jab -> dair, but it deals a lot of damage when it works.

What does Sky not going for a grab tell you? His aggressive playstyle, the grab being bad (especially when it misses), or no opportunity to use it because Raykz doesn't shield?
 
B

Boney

Banned
SeanR1221 said:
I have to ask and I don't know where else to.

The vast majority of matches I play online anymore are people just standing and they won't attack you unless you attack them. I feel like I'm constantly being trolled.

Anyone else get this?
Click to expand...
How passive are they? Don't even try attacking? Defense in this game is incredibly strong so it's never a bad choice to shield, in order to beat it you need to learn how to space aerials, never land beside opponents especially from the front, and learn how to grab, pivot grab and pivot attack smartly.
I've never had an opponent never attack, but if it's happening it should be easy to beat
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Anyone want to play for a bit? I want to say goodbye to mid tier Mewtwo before he receives a massive list of buffs tonight.

NamikazeBurst said:
Yeah, I noticed that too. Two fairs isn't guaranteed because you can tech or air dodge if you don't tech, and three is just ridiculous. Although I do remember a match I play against Romance Dawn where I did like three fairs across that stage as he never teched, and then I almost got a fourth when he was finally off-stage. That would've been an amazing kill.

I like some of the combos Sky went for. I have never even tried to go for jab -> dair, but it deals a lot of damage when it works.

What does Sky not going for a grab tell you? His aggressive playstyle, the grab being bad (especially when it misses), or no opportunity to use it because Raykz doesn't shield?
Click to expand...
That he didn't have to go for grabs because Raykz doesn't shield. Grabs are probably Yoshi's highest risk offense, even if the neutral B is still way too safe in this meta. You don't go to them lightly. Though I know you like to Fair and then go for a grab. ;)

Sky had some great combos, and I also noticed the jab into Dair. I honestly don't get those setups, but they can be effective. Like Mewtwo's jab to Disable. Gets me so many kills because people don't shield for some reason.
 
T

Thulius

Member
Karsticles said:
Sky had some great combos, and I also noticed the jab into Dair. I honestly don't get those setups, but they can be effective. Like Mewtwo's jab to Disable. Gets me so many kills because people don't shield for some reason.
Click to expand...

A lot of people like to just mash either Nair or air dodge the instant they get hit by anything ever, even if they're not playing one of the few characters where that's actually a good idea, so you end up catching their landing lag. I have no idea where the habit comes from or why it's so common.

Sometimes it's just online being online and people holding shield after eating a jab and latency turning it into an air dodge, but that seems rare in comparison.
 
S

SeanR1221

Member
Boney said:
How passive are they? Don't even try attacking? Defense in this game is incredibly strong so it's never a bad choice to shield, in order to beat it you need to learn how to space aerials, never land beside opponents especially from the front, and learn how to grab, pivot grab and pivot attack smartly.
I've never had an opponent never attack, but if it's happening it should be easy to beat
Click to expand...

No they literally just stand there. And if I stand there we all go into over time where everyone just stands there until the bombs drop. Occasionally they'll jump around. Walk around. Run around.

Its insane and I swear it happens more often than not.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Thulius said:
A lot of people like to just mash either Nair or air dodge the instant they get hit by anything ever, even if they're not playing one of the few characters where that's actually a good idea, so you end up catching their landing lag. I have no idea where the habit comes from or why it's so common.

Sometimes it's just online being online and people holding shield after eating a jab and latency turning it into an air dodge, but that seems rare in comparison.
Click to expand...

Pac-Man taught me to nair like a madman while I'm being jabbed unless it's against chracters with ranged attacks (since nair has short range). The worst part is it actually works, and 10% free damage on top of escaping a combo is awfully good for Pac since he doesn't get all that much landing lag from that, either.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Boney said:
How passive are they? Don't even try attacking? Defense in this game is incredibly strong so it's never a bad choice to shield, in order to beat it you need to learn how to space aerials, never land beside opponents especially from the front, and learn how to grab, pivot grab and pivot attack smartly.
I've never had an opponent never attack, but if it's happening it should be easy to beat
Click to expand...

I want to try experimenting with getting the first stock as Yoshi, and then just running away while throwing eggs. It seems like it would annoy a lot of people knowing how annoyed people are from just eggs. It wouldn't work against all opponents, but the stage also would help. Duck Hunt makes it really easy to run away as Yoshi against most characters.

Karsticles said:
That he didn't have to go for grabs because Raykz doesn't shield. Grabs are probably Yoshi's highest risk offense, even if the neutral B is still way too safe in this meta. You don't go to them lightly. Though I know you like to Fair and then go for a grab. ;)

Sky had some great combos, and I also noticed the jab into Dair. I honestly don't get those setups, but they can be effective. Like Mewtwo's jab to Disable. Gets me so many kills because people don't shield for some reason.
Click to expand...

I agree, but dair is also pretty risky. I almost never go for pivot grabs because of the awful range it has, despite having as much lag as Yoshi's dash and standing grabs. I hear Yoshi's pivot grab was one of his best moves in Brawl. Do you mean fair on shield and then grab? I don't remember going for that a lot, usually I jab, and then stupidly jab some more despite knowing Mewtwo can grab me out of it.

I fall for those types of combos all the time. Link players like to jab 2 into grab, and I always fall for it. I think I should be mashing jump whenever Link jabs, but I haven't tried that yet. In Yoshi's case, a bunch of his can be DI dependent. You can DI out of jab to usmash, especially if Yoshi isn't super close when starting the jab.

SeanR1221 said:
No they literally just stand there. And if I stand there we all go into over time where everyone just stands there until the bombs drop. Occasionally they'll jump around. Walk around. Run around.

Its insane and I swear it happens more often than not.
Click to expand...

Are you playing on For Fun? The last time I went For Fun FFA, the other three players didn't really do anything. If I went near them they would attack or defend, but none of them usually approached me. It felt weird to play.
 
SoldnerKei

SoldnerKei

Member
SeanR1221 said:
No they literally just stand there. And if I stand there we all go into over time where everyone just stands there until the bombs drop. Occasionally they'll jump around. Walk around. Run around.

Its insane and I swear it happens more often than not.
Click to expand...

if there is an issue with the connection mid-match, instead of ending the match right away, the game leaves you fighting a very low level CPU, which pretty much does nothing, maybe that's why
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
I had the router replaced, and it doesn't stutter as much, but it still seems bad. The internet in this building just seems like shit for playing games even though it's the same provider and router type as the last one.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Can someone explain why people feel so strongly for K. Rool? I just don't understand, what about this fat crocodile that was last relevant in a Mario baseball game makes people beg on their knees for his inclusion in Smash as a playable character? Will half these guys even use him?

I just don't understand. I would rather have Wart, at least then we'd get more SMB2 representation.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Even as someone that perfected all 3 DK games, I don't see the appeal of K. Rool. He was always lame, a low point for all of the titles. No personality, either. Stealing bananas? Bowser stole your waifu.

NamikazeBurst said:
I want to try experimenting with getting the first stock as Yoshi, and then just running away while throwing eggs. It seems like it would annoy a lot of people knowing how annoyed people are from just eggs. It wouldn't work against all opponents, but the stage also would help. Duck Hunt makes it really easy to run away as Yoshi against most characters.



I agree, but dair is also pretty risky. I almost never go for pivot grabs because of the awful range it has, despite having as much lag as Yoshi's dash and standing grabs. I hear Yoshi's pivot grab was one of his best moves in Brawl. Do you mean fair on shield and then grab? I don't remember going for that a lot, usually I jab, and then stupidly jab some more despite knowing Mewtwo can grab me out of it.

I fall for those types of combos all the time. Link players like to jab 2 into grab, and I always fall for it. I think I should be mashing jump whenever Link jabs, but I haven't tried that yet. In Yoshi's case, a bunch of his can be DI dependent. You can DI out of jab to usmash, especially if Yoshi isn't super close when starting the jab.



Are you playing on For Fun? The last time I went For Fun FFA, the other three players didn't really do anything. If I went near them they would attack or defend, but none of them usually approached me. It felt weird to play.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Yoshi's Dair is risky, but you need to use it like Mewtwo's Nair. After a shield is worn down, it autohits.

You definitely Fair into grab a lot. :)
 
SoldnerKei

SoldnerKei

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Can someone explain why people feel so strongly for K. Rool? I just don't understand, what about this fat crocodile that was last relevant in a Mario baseball game makes people beg on their knees for his inclusion in Smash as a playable character? Will half these guys even use him?

I just don't understand. I would rather have Wart, at least then we'd get more SMB2 representation.
Click to expand...

the only answer that comes to mind is... that Smash needs more bad guys, and that's it, since I am pretty sure that he would be another low-tier-because-his-frame-data-sucks type of character, so I'd rather not have another character who will not be viable

plus never been a big fan of DK games, not that I don't like them, just haven't touch one since the SNES
 
B

Boney

Banned
SeanR1221 said:
No they literally just stand there. And if I stand there we all go into over time where everyone just stands there until the bombs drop. Occasionally they'll jump around. Walk around. Run around.

Its insane and I swear it happens more often than not.
Click to expand...
That's the strangest thing I've ever heard. Nothing i can really add to it other than I don't have it happen to me..

Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I had the router replaced, and it doesn't stutter as much, but it still seems bad. The internet in this building just seems like shit for playing games even though it's the same provider and router type as the last one.
Click to expand...
I thought you moved in the same building. I hope it works out fine though
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Can someone explain why people feel so strongly for K. Rool? I just don't understand, what about this fat crocodile that was last relevant in a Mario baseball game makes people beg on their knees for his inclusion in Smash as a playable character? Will half these guys even use him?

I just don't understand. I would rather have Wart, at least then we'd get more SMB2 representation.
Click to expand...
What gets me the most is how freaking annoying they can be about him. I mean I get it you'd like him in 'cause you like DKC or whatever, but shut the fuck up about it. They just feel so entitled with the fan polls and whatever.

I'd love wart to return in a Mario game, but he doesn't belong in smash, second fiddle villains aren't exactly "all-stars"

Same reason why I don't think more series "deserve" more characters just because the series is popular. Pokemon gets away with it because we get 200 pokemon between each smash game, so it's not like they're putting in secondary characters in.
Silent Storm said:
GGs Boney.
Click to expand...
Good games dude. I guess you need to work on your neutral a bit, I was never really threatened by your approaches so I didn't have trouble spacing you out. Had fun though!

Is Mario your main?
 
B

Boney

Banned
Villains I'd add:

Ridley (important nemesis to an under represented series, cool design but to hard to incorporate)
Porky (would make a very interesting juxtaposition to Ness and Lucas, different enough from Bowser Jr when it comes to mech driving)
Hades (only one that isn't a recurring villain, but has interesting design and qualities to him, much better than Medusa as well)
Pig Ganon (represents classic Zelda, coo heavy weight with a weapon)

I'd sort of be ok with Dark Samus although I think he'd be pretty lame as a character in the roster even though he'd play very different from Samus. Plus we already filled the "dark counterpart" with dark pit (which I hope they'd redesign with his staff for the next game)

That's it really, I wouldn't add a third party villain, I wouldn't add a villain that doesn't have the protagonist already in. DK and wario are the only series where I'd possibly add an antagonist, but they don't have good foils. K rool is a horrible design and doesn't have any interesting qualities to him, and the other DK villains from jungle beat, returns and tf aren't better either, while captain syrup would be a "who¿?" character without the privilege of actually representing a new ip like Shulk or fire emblem guys
 
C

Crayolan

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Can someone explain why people feel so strongly for K. Rool? I just don't understand, what about this fat crocodile that was last relevant in a Mario baseball game makes people beg on their knees for his inclusion in Smash as a playable character? Will half these guys even use him?

I just don't understand. I would rather have Wart, at least then we'd get more SMB2 representation.
Click to expand...

People really like the DKC games and (rightly) feel the Donkey Kong series is under represented in Smash. He's the 3rd or 4th most important character in the DKC series. People also want more heavies and villains on the roster.

If he had appeared in the Retro DKC games he'd probably already be in the game.

It's all same reasons people want Ridley playable, just replace DK with Metroid. Ridley has the advantage of actually appearing in recent games though, and is instead held back by Sakurai not wanting to figure out how to make him work without compromising his size (which, to be fair, would be pretty difficult).
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Matches anyone?

Crayolan said:
People really like the DKC games and (rightly) feel the Donkey Kong series is under represented in Smash. He's the 3rd or 4th most important character in the DKC series. People also want more heavies and villains on the roster.

If he had appeared in the Retro DKC games he'd probably already be in the game.

It's all same reasons people want Ridley playable, just replace DK with Metroid. Ridley has the advantage of actually appearing in recent games though, and is instead held back by Sakurai not wanting to figure out how to make him work without compromising his size (which, to be fair, would be pretty difficult).
Click to expand...
Ridley looks cool, though, and is memorable. Rool feels like a placeholder villain.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
SeanR1221 said:
Yes! This is exactly what happens
Click to expand...

I honestly have only played FF like 3 times, so I don't know how often it happens. I have read about some Japanese players having some secret teaming up strategy to annoy other players. It just seems so weird how three people can randomly be put together and do nothing, while one person actually tries to play the game.

Karsticles said:
Yeah, Yoshi's Dair is risky, but you need to use it like Mewtwo's Nair. After a shield is worn down, it autohits.

You definitely Fair into grab a lot. :)
Click to expand...

Yoshi's dair is what is used to damage the shield. Shields recover so fast in this game it doesn't seem like any of my other moves damage them, except for down-B.

I guess I should pay attention more then. I just remember always having my fair shielded, I jab twice, and then I get grabbed.
 
M

Masked Man

I said wow
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Character DLC will be Rope Snake and use all of Solid Snake's voice clips.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be upset by this.

Fandangox said:
I wonder who else can be recreated, if we could chose different pant/shirt colors doing the DCMC band members seems pretty doable.
Click to expand...

I never thought about that, but now I really want to make DCMC!

Shamrock7r said:
I am going to buy the K.Rool outfit and name him "Salt.K.Rool". Can't believe so many people care about that character
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've never understood the appeal. :X
 
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