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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

K

Karsticles

Member
Cronox said:
I think we've identified the problem.

That said, if you'd like to see a scrubby Mewtwo win you should watch the replay I sent you.
Click to expand...
Haha, okay. The Wario I played against was crazy good, too. Every match came down to the wire, even when I used Bowser.

Oh yeah, and I am super salty that Bowser Bomb hit Wario going up AND down, and the shield didn't break. That move needs a buff.
 
O

Okamid3n

Member
How do you pull off zero suit samus' dthrow uair uair up b combo against people who DI perfectly away from you? I can only fair them, even at the right percent.

It might be because I do uair with the left joystick + A instead of using the right stick for uair. It's hard to move towards the opponent while also doing uair. Or maybe it actually is an avoidable combo, I'd like to know.

Edit: Okay, I found the info I wanted, you can DI it.
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Okamid3n said:
How do you pull off zero suit samus' dthrow uair uair up b combo against people who DI perfectly away from you? I can only fair them, even at the right percent.

It might be because I do uair with the left joystick + A instead of using the right stick for uair. It's hard to move towards the opponent while also doing uair. Or maybe it actually is an avoidable combo, I'd like to know.

Edit: Okay, I found the info I wanted, you can DI it.
Click to expand...

http://smashboards.com/guides/how-to-di-all-throws-in-smash-4.341/?

Karsticles said:
Haha, okay. The Wario I played against was crazy good, too. Every match came down to the wire, even when I used Bowser.

Oh yeah, and I am super salty that Bowser Bomb hit Wario going up AND down, and the shield didn't break. That move needs a buff.
Click to expand...

Bowser bomb is some kind of multi-hit attack it seems, hitting shields 3 times before they break. I'm not sure why they programmed it that way. I get more "almost shieldbreaks" than actual ones.

FWIW, I ran into a good Dedede and am also a little salty at the moment. Gordo traps are really annoying.
 
O

Oidisco

Member
Okamid3n said:
How do you pull off zero suit samus' dthrow uair uair up b combo against people who DI perfectly away from you? I can only fair them, even at the right percent.

It might be because I do uair with the left joystick + A instead of using the right stick for uair. It's hard to move towards the opponent while also doing uair. Or maybe it actually is an avoidable combo, I'd like to know.

Edit: Okay, I found the info I wanted, you can DI it.
Click to expand...

If they DI away, do a quick dash after the throw to follow them and then start the combo. It doesn't always work, but it's better than immediately jumping and trying to follow them in the air. Just be aware of the DI mixups, because they could read your attempt to dash towards them and they'll just DI in instead.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Flux I honestly believe your WFT may be better than your Sonic at his best
Click to expand...
Her recent buffs have brought WFT to be such a frustrating matchup for Mewtwo. Sun Salutation is significantly better than Shadow Ball in a fireball war (especially since WFT is healing while Mewtwo is doing nothing), and Mewtwo has no good approach options. :-/
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Flux I honestly believe your WFT may be better than your Sonic at his best
Click to expand...

She is, but I still have so much trouble against certain characters with her. With Sonic's mobility, I had no problem with approaching any opponent with his speed, but it can be really hard to get around some with WFT.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
She is, but I still have so much trouble against certain characters with her. With Sonic's mobility, I had no problem with approaching any opponent with his speed, but it can be really hard to get around some with WFT.
Click to expand...

As it stands right now, My Ness and Lucas have less trouble with WFT than your Sonic in the past, but I think that is a combination of my Ness, and especially Lucas being better/improved from before, and Sonic being a far far worse matchup for both. I think your mechanics and knowledge with WFT are so much better.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Last match, Shamrock.

Edit: Heh, nice timing. GGs!

Shamrock7r said:
As it stands right now, My Ness and Lucas have less trouble with WFT than your Sonic in the past, but I think that is a combination of my Ness, and especially Lucas being better/improved from before, and Sonic being a far far worse matchup for both. I think your mechanics and knowledge with WFT are so much better.
Click to expand...

Thanks. With Sonic, I had a reckless playstyle, which worked in my favor with that character. Taking to WFT forced me to stop that real quick; she requires so much weird precision in everything she does except for Sun Salutation (and, even then, I gotta be real careful when the opponent can reflect or absorb).
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Karsticles said:
What do you think her top 5 worst matchups are, Flux?
Click to expand...

Sun Salutation seems to be a very important tool for WFT, because it forces the opponent to be wary and allows WFT to approach with more ease, which is where she's the most effective with her quick normals that hit in multiple directions simultaneously.

So any opponent that can easily deny Sun Salutation and keep WFT at a distance is probably who she would have the most difficulty against.

Considering that, Ness and Lucas are probably among her worst MUs, seeing as how PK Fire is fast and cancels any charge of SS, the fact that they can absorb SS, and also because they can keep her at a distance.
I imagine Villager would be a pain too, because of the above. Can't really think of any others she might have too big of a problem with beyond those 3. Not like I can really think of many MUs where she would have the advantage either, though.
 
R

Robiin

Member
Anyone know when Paragon streams start today? I'm on GMT+1 time (CET I believe it's also called) and can't get my mind around timezone converting, so time left would be awesome if anyone knows. Melee or Smash 4, whichever is first :)
 
K

Karsticles

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Sun Salutation seems to be a very important tool for WFT, because it forces the opponent to be wary and allows WFT to approach with more ease, which is where she's the most effective with her quick normals that hit in multiple directions simultaneously.

So any opponent that can easily deny Sun Salutation and keep WFT at a distance is probably who she would have the most difficulty against.

Considering that, Ness and Lucas are probably among her worst MUs, seeing as how PK Fire is fast and cancels any charge of SS, the fact that they can absorb SS, and also because they can keep her at a distance.
I imagine Villager would be a pain too, because of the above. Can't really think of any others she might have too big of a problem with beyond those 3. Not like I can really think of many MUs where she would have the advantage either, though.
Click to expand...
Very similar to Mewtwo, then. I can't stand it when my fully charged Shadow Ball is canceled out by something small and insignifiant.

How do you feel about Link?

Even though we play different characters, we share a similar meta, so we might be able to have some fruitful matchup discussions.

Villager isn't too bad, IMO. The key is to just not charge your projectile. I throw out lots of uncharged Shadow Balls, because charged is too risky (instant KO at ~0%, breaks shields) if it gets Pocketed. Mewtwo can also throw out uncharged Shadow Balls at a faster rate than Villager can produce projectiles, which is helpful.

Though WFT's can't spam Sun Salutation as fast as Mewtwo can spam Shadow Ball, and you don't have a reflect, so it might be a little harder. Can Villager pocket the volleyball?
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Karsticles said:
How do you feel about Link?

Though WFT's can't spam Sun Salutation as fast as Mewtwo can spam Shadow Ball, and you don't have a reflect, so it might be a little harder. Can Villager pocket the volleyball?
Click to expand...

A charged SS can go through all of Link's projectiles except for bombs and he doesn't have above average mobility, so it seems like the average MU, or slightly to Link's advantage. It's easier to deal with Link as WFT than a lot of other characters when she manages to get up close.

Villager can pocket the volleyball, yes. I don't remember how he throws it and if it depends on its trajectory before it was pocketed, but I do know from playing Shamrock that Ness/Lucas' bat will send the volleyball flying directly at WFT if it lands.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
A charged SS can go through all of Link's projectiles except for bombs and he doesn't have above average mobility, so it seems like the average MU, or slightly to Link's advantage. It's easier to deal with Link as WFT than a lot of other characters when she manages to get up close.

Villager can pocket the volleyball, yes. I don't remember how he throws it and if it depends on its trajectory before it was pocketed, but I do know from playing Shamrock that Ness/Lucas' bat will send the volleyball flying directly at WFT if it lands.
Click to expand...
Let me know if you find out - I'd be curious.

Link's bombs kill me. I never know how to deal with them. :-/
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
You know what we should do? One day we should all play each other, but we use each other's mains. This way, everyone can learn the struggle of Karsticles' Smash career! :D


I'm half-serious about this.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
MagiusNecros said:
Catch them during air dodges.

Link is a pain. I have lots of experience with the matchup.

It is obnoxious.
Click to expand...
So hard to air dodge out of charging Shadow Ball due to Smash's stupid input limitations.

Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
You know what we should do? One day we should all play each other, but we use each other's mains. This way, everyone can learn the struggle of Karsticles' Smash career! :D


I'm half-serious about this.
Click to expand...
I actually spent most of yesterday playing random select.

Then I fought this guy that I stomped 5 times in a row on random select. He switched to Donkey Kong, barely won against my super noob Peach, made his tag "MAIN2GUD4U", and left. -_-

On that note, Peach is pretty fun.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
WFT is an easy match for Villager because she's got nothing Villager needs to fear. Her normals aren't as good as his, her recovery blows, and even uncharged Salutations aren't something to worry about. She has no options to help her get past Villager's wall, either.

Been playing more with Ryu, still don't think mine is quite tournament-ready yet. Got some experience in the Fox matchup, and god damn is it frustrating. At least I can lock him with uptilt > SRK.
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Karsticles said:
So hard to air dodge out of charging Shadow Ball due to Smash's stupid input limitations.
Click to expand...


Also worth noting that landing with air dodge gives M2 Bowser land lag.

So much for weight manipulation.

If M2 had smooth lander as a passive it would be great but he doesn't.

All the more reason to play Sheik I guess.

---------

I am liking Zelda more though. Playstyle wise.
 
O

Oidisco

Member
MagiusNecros said:
I am liking Zelda more though. Playstyle wise.
Click to expand...

Dude, she's so much fun! Even though there's so many obvious design flaws with her character she's still pretty satisfying to use. Her kill confirms are pretty great even though they're hard to land and not 100% guaranteed.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Sun Salutation seems to be a very important tool for WFT, because it forces the opponent to be wary and allows WFT to approach with more ease, which is where she's the most effective with her quick normals that hit in multiple directions simultaneously.

So any opponent that can easily deny Sun Salutation and keep WFT at a distance is probably who she would have the most difficulty against.

Considering that, Ness and Lucas are probably among her worst MUs, seeing as how PK Fire is fast and cancels any charge of SS, the fact that they can absorb SS, and also because they can keep her at a distance.
I imagine Villager would be a pain too, because of the above. Can't really think of any others she might have too big of a problem with beyond those 3. Not like I can really think of many MUs where she would have the advantage either, though.
Click to expand...

I would also add that WFT has amazing roll and spot dodge techniques. Downside is any attacks that have long lasting hitboxes can disrupt that, ex: ness' dash attack
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Shamrock7r said:
I would also add that WFT has amazing roll and spot dodge techniques. Downside is any attacks that have long lasting hitboxes can disrupt that, ex: ness' dash attack
Click to expand...
Yeah, I checked her frame data and noticed that her spot dodge starts on F2. Just as good as Mewtwo's.
F4 Bowser lol.
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Oidisco said:
Dude, she's so much fun! Even though there's so many obvious design flaws with her character she's still pretty satisfying to use. Her kill confirms are pretty great even though they're hard to land and not 100% guaranteed.
Click to expand...

Din Flare and Phantom Strike bro.
 
R

Ricky 7

Member
It's been almost a year since Smash 4 came out, doesn't feel like it. All the DLC and updates has been keeping this game so fresh. I don't think I'll be done with this game until a long time.

Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
You know what we should do? One day we should all play each other, but we use each other's mains. This way, everyone can learn the struggle of Karsticles' Smash career! :D


I'm half-serious about this.
Click to expand...

I main both his mains as well. Bowser is decent, solid mid tier. Mewtwo though is bottom 5 material. T_T
 
K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
Larry Lurr destroyed False just now. Sheik didn't even seem good in those games!
Click to expand...
I think the DHD match against Mr. R really put things into perspective. When Sheik has to play against the opponent, she isn't unbeatable. But if she sits back and camps with needles, FML. Easily the best projectile in the game, right up there with Egg Toss.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
I think the DHD match against Mr. R really put things into perspective. When Sheik has to play against the opponent, she isn't unbeatable. But if she sits back and camps with needles, FML. Easily the best projectile in the game, right up there with Egg Toss.
Click to expand...

I didn't see that match. But yeah, when I fought ZeRo online, there wasn't a lot I could do to beat needle spam. Egg Toss is definitely a good projectile, but needles are still on another level. Unless you shield them right in her face, she can't be punished without a reflector. Aerial needles gimping or leading into down-B is also really strong.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
NamikazeBurst said:
I didn't see that match. But yeah, when I fought ZeRo online, there wasn't a lot I could do to beat needle spam. Egg Toss is definitely a good projectile, but needles are still on another level. Unless you shield them right in her face, she can't be punished without a reflector. Aerials needles also gimping or leading into down-B is also really strong.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree that Needles are on another level from anything else in the game.

-Travels extremely fast.
-Combos into KO moves at high %.
-Spammable.
-Nigh-invisible.
-Piercing.

Nothing else in the game has that. Even charged projectiles like Shadow Ball, Sun Salutation, and Charge Beam only have 1-2 of those.

Edit: You can't even reflect punish them, really. Reflectors don't extend projectile travel distances, so they dissipate before they get to her.
 
N

NamikazeBurst

Member
Karsticles said:
Yeah, I agree that Needles are on another level from anything else in the game.

-Travels extremely fast.
-Combos into KO moves at high %.
-Spammable.
-Nigh-invisible.
-Piercing.

Nothing else in the game has that. Even charged projectiles like Shadow Ball, Sun Salutation, and Charge Beam only have 1-2 of those.

Edit: You can't even reflect punish them, really. Reflectors don't extend projectile travel distances, so they dissipate before they get to her.
Click to expand...

You can reflect them if you're at about half their travel distance. Most characters won't be able to punish at this distance with anything else. Falco can reflect a little farther away I believe, because of him throwing his reflector. This doesn't mean much because of the few characters with reflectors and having to be in reflect range.
 
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