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[Boney]

Oh that I agree. luigi was an issue in high level, mid level and maybe even low level smash. And it seems Sakurai balances for the mid level FG crowd. So yeah I understand and I'm happy luigi got nerfed like that. He even got a better dair and down smash to somewhat make up for it.

I'd just like others getting beefier buffs and some others some nerfs here and there.

I'm somewhat happy with Samus air game buff at the very least. Nair is now a competent move

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Who wants to play?

 

[Regulus Tera]

The MLG ruleset seems to me like the one that should be the default for the game from now on. Unless 1.1.1 really makes the game more offensive, in which case I would make it three stock/eight minute.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

The MLG ruleset seems to me like the one that should be the default for the game from now on. Unless 1.1.1 really makes the game more offensive, in which case I would make it three stock/eight minute.

I don't think anything is going to change the rules unless games under 2 minutes very consistently become the norm.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I don't like the idea of Castle Siege being legal. Delfino I can somewhat tolerate, but Castle Siege has that bs second part that nobody likes to approach on. :/

Delfino is okay, but the low ceiling during transformations and the tendency to make it hard for characters to approach regardless of how up they are makes me wary.

How do you guys feel about Pro Controller bans? Frankly I'm okay with this, a regional I went to kept getting stalled because people would forget to desync or they'd turn on at random and the only way to get them out of the character select screen is to find the right controller or reset the game, which is a hassle because you need a wireless controller to do so. Wish it weren't so, but alas.

Also, how does Mega Man deal with Diddy's glitch? Does Metal Blade or the bomb's explosion trigger it, or his uair, or his bair, or his usmash?

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Delfino is fun to play on but it's so easy to just go for the easy KO. Castle Siege is dumb, Halberd is dumb. I'll never understand the "more = better" mentality of some people.

If controllers are a hardware and organization issue, there's nothing they can really do about it.

 

[Boney]

Exiting the character select screen should make all controlled go away though right? If it doesn't I can't believe they can't patch that in. Jesus Christ Sakurai.

Also delfino is way dumber than castle Seige. Low ceiling is stupid, has more walk offs and some terrible no ledges transformation and the weird pillar. The base stage is pretty cool though sadly.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Exiting the character select screen should make all controlled go away though right? If it doesn't I can't believe they can't patch that in. Jesus Christ Sakurai.

Also delfino is way dumber than castle Seige. Low ceiling is stupid, has more walk offs and some terrible no ledges transformation and the weird pillar. The base stage is pretty cool though sadly.

No, and it's as easy to patch in as ignoring GC controllers upon exiting the screen.

If anyone's to blame it's whoever decided the Pro Controller should still be wirelessly synced to the system even with a cable. I just don't understand why that's a thing.

 

[Professor Beef]

Castle Siege statue room is a Villager's worst nightmare. I ban it all the fucking time.

 

[Dimitri LH]

Was peachs castle ever considered for competitive play? I know Hyrule Castle is out due to the tornado.

 

[Professor Beef]

Was peachs castle ever considered for competitive play? I know Hyrule Castle is out due to the tornado.

It totally should be since you can grab the moving platform now. It probably won't though, for dubious reasons.

 

[TWILT]

Just chiming in to say Halberd is indeed a dumb as hell stage and shouldn't be legal. Delfino and Castle Siege I don't mind as much (except for the dumb possible SDs from the transitions for the latter), but I can see the problems with both pretty easily.

 

[Professor Beef]

I think Halberd is fine.

 

[Dimitri LH]

Its been said that mario maker is not for competitive play right? Does it have hazzards? I held off on buying the bundle till later on, might jump on it if that Direct rumor is true.

I think Halberd is fine.

+1

 

[SolarKnight]

Just chiming in to say Halberd is indeed a dumb as hell stage and shouldn't be legal. Delfino and Castle Siege I don't mind as much (except for the dumb possible SDs from the transitions for the latter), but I can see the problems with both pretty easily.

If you're SDing from Castle Siege transitions I have trouble seeing anything to blame but yourself tbh. There's nothing uncertain about where you'll land when the stage changes and it's telegraphed enough to react well in advance. The only problem I have with the stage is the walkoff.

 

[Professor Beef]

Its been said that mario maker is not for competitive play right? Does it have hazzards? I held off on buying the bundle till later on, might jump on it if that Direct rumor is true.

It has a lava pool, but I think the stages are randomized. I wouldn't legalize it, but I also don't know much about it.

 

[Boney]

I don't think it is.

Also just got trashed by a Yoshi online. He can jab to up smash apparently. Probably the best Yoshi I've seen. Uploading for Nami



Dude didn't give me a rematch either and I was using Marth

Here it is, forgive my sloppy Marth play. Was that jab to up smash a true combo?

http://youtu.be/6Yx6f4lm-mg

 

[Regulus Tera]

Still waiting on vgbootcamp to upload yesterday's tournaments to youtube. :/

Its been said that mario maker is not for competitive play right? Does it have hazzards? I held off on buying the bundle till later on, might jump on it if that Direct rumor is true.

The Mario Maker stage is randomised every time you play on it. This means you could get a totally legit competitive stage one session, and the next one you have two walk-offs and a lava pool right in the middle.

I personally think it's one of the best stages in the game because the hazards are non-intrusive and I don't mind walk-offs, but if what you care about is the competitive meta you are better off saving your money.

 

[Dimitri LH]

Still waiting on vgbootcamp to upload yesterday's tournaments to youtube. :/

The Mario Maker stage is randomised every time you play on it. This means you could get a totally legit competitive stage one session, and the next one you have two walk-offs and a lava pool right in the middle.

I personally think it's one of the best stages in the game because the hazards are non-intrusive and I don't mind walk-offs, but if what you care about is the competitive meta you are better off saving your money.

Oh I plan on getting all the Smash content. I enjoy a good stage when I see one. Was just curious how it was.

Thanks for the answers.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I don't think it is.

Also just got trashed by a Yoshi online. He can jab to up smash apparently. Probably the best Yoshi I've seen. Uploading for Nami



Dude didn't give me a rematch either and I was using Marth

Here it is, forgive my sloppy Marth play. Was that jab to up smash a true combo?

http://youtu.be/6Yx6f4lm-mg

You use one of Yoshi's worst match-ups and still lose -.-

Jab to up-smash depends on your DI, rage, and your %. But he jabbed and walked forward before he did the up-smash, so it seemed like you could've jumped away before.

He even tried going for the jab lock, and got nothing both times.

 

[Boney]

You use one of Yoshi's worst match-ups and still lose -.-

Jab to up-smash depends on your DI, rage, and your %. But he jabbed and walked forward before he did the up-smash, so it seemed like you could've jumped away before.

He even tried going for the jab lock, and got nothing both times.

Hey man it's Marth what do you expect. Yeah I guess you can jump away, it was just so unexpected. I put my serious pants when I realized he was bodying me at around 70% hahaha. Bastard didn't give me a rematch.

But whatever, practice your jab cancels because they're scary

 

[jnWake]

I think that was Jab + Jump Cancel Up Smash. There are some decent combos out of Jab for Yoshi but I doubt that one is always guaranteed.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Hey man it's Marth what do you expect. Yeah I guess you can jump away, it was just so unexpected. I put my serious pants when I realized he was bodying me at around 70% hahaha. Bastard didn't give me a rematch.

But whatever, practice your jab cancels because they're scary

Marth outranges Yoshi and it makes it hard to do anything. Getting juggled isn't fun .

I believe I used jab -> up-smash or f-smash a couple times the last time we played.

I think that was Jab + Jump Cancel Up Smash. There are some decent combos out of Jab for Yoshi but I doubt that one is always guaranteed.

Just looked like jab to an up-smash out of a walk to me. I don't think jump cancelling would make it any faster.

 

[Boney]

Looks like it was up cancelled to me by the way he slides

 

[NamikazeBurst]

All that matters is it wasn't guaranteed. There are many times jab to up-smash isn't guaranteed, so the walk definitely makes it depend on you. Just DI away or up and away from Yoshi when he jabs, and I guess you can also mash jump.

 

[Sora_N]

I started the 3DS version when it came out with Robin and somehow I tried almost every character and still can't pick a main.

I finally decided to try Robin again, anyone have tips? Consider me noob.

I know some of the stuff just from playing Robin in the past but absolutely not good at it.

 

[Poltergust]

I think the d-throw nerf Luigi received was completely unnecessary considering the other nerfs he got.

-His down-B got a rather severe knockback nerf. It kills like 30% later than it used to.

-Due to increased shield-stun, it's going to be that much harder for Luigi to land a grab on anyone due to his mediocre grab range, bad mobility, and low traction.

Those two things would have been enough, honestly. You still keep the hard punish game Luigi has while he can't kill you as early as he used to. By getting rid of his d-throw follow-ups, the patch pretty much completely destroyed his character archetype: very slow, but dangerous if you allow him to get close.

Now he's just slow. =/

 

[Vena]

I think the d-throw nerf Luigi received was completely unnecessary considering the other nerfs he got.

-His down-B got a rather severe knockback nerf. It kills like 30% later than it used to.

-Due to increased shield-stun, it's going to be that much harder for Luigi to land a grab on anyone due to his mediocre grab range, bad mobility, and low traction.

Those two things would have been enough, honestly. You still keep the hard punish game Luigi has while he can't kill you as early as he used to. By getting rid of his d-throw follow-ups, the patch pretty much completely destroyed his character archetype: very slow, but dangerous if you allow him to get close.

Now he's just slow. =/

We're likely going to see a lot of cascading affects and then rebalances a couple of months later after things like this get a fair shake. I think Sakurai was probably overly aggressive simply because of the cheese issue with his auto-combos to easy kills.

 

[Blackquill]

Guys, strange question : How to improve at smash ? I have a decent level in general but still have a lot learn, what do you advice ?

 

[ffdgh]

Diddy patch fix(1.1.2) is coming. That was fast lol.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/axfj/update/index.html

 

[IntelliHeath]

Diddy patch fix(1.1.2) is coming. That was fast lol.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/axfj/update/index.html

I'm impressed with how fast they solved game-breaking glitch.

 

[NotLiquid]

Hopefully they get it out before MLG.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

I think the d-throw nerf Luigi received was completely unnecessary considering the other nerfs he got.

-His down-B got a rather severe knockback nerf. It kills like 30% later than it used to.

-Due to increased shield-stun, it's going to be that much harder for Luigi to land a grab on anyone due to his mediocre grab range, bad mobility, and low traction.

Those two things would have been enough, honestly. You still keep the hard punish game Luigi has while he can't kill you as early as he used to. By getting rid of his d-throw follow-ups, the patch pretty much completely destroyed his character archetype: very slow, but dangerous if you allow him to get close.

Now he's just slow. =/

I agree 100%. It was hard enough punishing someone when shielding as Luigi, especially online, and now it is near impossible. Seems like you need to up-B if you want to kill at a decent %.

I don't see why Luigi got hit so hard and yet Sheik is still running wild. It isn't like down throw to tornado was a whole lot better than Sheik down throw to up B or uair. Luigi was over rated to begin with.

 

[Dimitri LH]

I started the 3DS version when it came out with Robin and somehow I tried almost every character and still can't pick a main.

I finally decided to try Robin again, anyone have tips? Consider me noob.

I know some of the stuff just from playing Robin in the past but absolutely not good at it.

On one of the recent updates they buffed his Downthrow, you can easily combo off it now. Easiest one being wind jab combo.

 

[Sora_N]

On one of the recent updates they buffed his Downthrow, you can easily combo off it now. Easiest one being wind jab combo.

Awesome. I played FG a but last night and realized that I have trouble killing but otherwise enjoy playing Robin.

 

[Boney]

The main tip I can give for Robin is that her Elthunder and Arcthunder are her most versatile tools. First one is super fast and can disrupt approaches. You can't spam it though so you gotta be careful.. Arcthunder either does tons of shield pressure si you van follow up with a grab, or if you hit it you're hitting a forward air or an up air at the very least or go crazy with a a grab combo. This one is a little more close range, I recommend using it when airborne opponents are coming towards you.

Robin is pretty hard to use due to how slow she is and how awkward her projectile game is, but she's pretty powerful. You need to space yourself well with fair, punish shield happy opponents with jump in nosferatus.

If you're not very good I still recommend jumping in for glory and to just keep playing. Don't force to many smash attacks as it'll get you punished and save most thorons for koing or at 0% after you take the first stock. As learn how to catch your tomes and sword a to throw at opponents as they're really powerful.

Btw did you guys see the Robin taking a game of Zero's Shiek at Big House 5?

http://youtu.be/BdXdT5Ab938

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Arcfire combos into up air, it's one of the easiest ways to KO as Robin. Space with aerials, Levin sword is really strong.

I agree 100%. It was hard enough punishing someone when shielding as Luigi, especially online, and now it is near impossible. Seems like you need to up-B if you want to kill at a decent %.

I don't see why Luigi got hit so hard and yet Sheik is still running wild. It isn't like down throw to tornado was a whole lot better than Sheik down throw to up B or uair. Luigi was over rated to begin with.

Still has some of the best and safest smash attacks in the game. They're avoiding nerfing Sheik, though. Either they haven't figured out how to do it or they still don't understand what makes her the best. Those baby nerfs in the past two patches that changed nothing at all were stupid.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Arcfire combos into up air, it's one of the easiest ways to KO as Robin. Space with aerials, Levin sword is really strong.



Still has some of the best and safest smash attacks in the game. They're avoiding nerfing Sheik, though. Either they haven't figured out how to do it or they still don't understand what makes her the best. Those baby nerfs in the past two patches that changed nothing at all were stupid.

So does Mario, and now Mario is better than Luigi in every way.

 

[Thulius]

So does Mario, and now Mario is better than Luigi in every way.

He has been for a while tbh.

 

[Boney]

Arcfire combos into up air, it's one of the easiest ways to KO as Robin. Space with aerials, Levin sword is really strong.



Still has some of the best and safest smash attacks in the game. They're avoiding nerfing Sheik, though. Either they haven't figured out how to do it or they still don't understand what makes her the best. Those baby nerfs in the past two patches that changed nothing at all were stupid.

Her old back air was super dumb though, it killed at what, 100%? Shiek went low key because how utterly stupid Diddy was before though. I understand this happening for the general audience, but for the designers? Jesus.

I'll say it again, but get rid of the invincibility frames on her up b, remove the auto cancel window when landing on the ground and remove the hit box when reappearing but keep the wind box. That's something at least.

So does Mario, and now Mario is better than Luigi in every way.

He has been for a while tbh.

Yeah Mario has always had much better all purpose tools which makes him not have bad match ups like Luigi did. Luigi still has some nice things going for him. Shoryuken setups, a stronger back air, tornado is still super good, a fantastic fair. Not sure who has the better smash attacks, but both are fantastic. I think luigi has better tilts and jab as well for what is worth. But mobility is king in this game and Mario's air speed, nair dair up air and bair just work better in the neutral. Competitive wise luigi didn't deserve the nerf because he wasn't as good as other characters and the other buffs don't balance the damage they did to him. But losing just because he landed 4 grabs in total (he has one the of the best grabs in the game, as well as throws) is super frustrating as a player and that's the bigger problem.

But luigi is definately out of the top 10 now, but he's still semi viable. He wasn't gonna win without a good secondary before and now that's more true than ever.

Speaking of buffs and nerfs, I'm loving Samus' new nair. Bigger hitbox and more active frames REALLY make a difference. It's a good tool in the neutral now and it helps her more than I previously thought. It's not gonna affect her at all in the metagame but at least I'm happy. Reduced landing lag on fair and the extra damage is a nice touch and the new hitboxes on up b allows it to launch vertically a lot easier so it's a more consistent kill option (and it has a very teeny knockback growth lmao).

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

IDK what you all see in Mario, he's as all-around as it gets and that's his flaw. Take the damage lead and you can platform camp him because his killing options are limited to making reads with smash attacks or going for a fair. If you're playing on a low-ceiling stage, maybe uair.

He's mobile, but not threatening enough to challenge actively running away from him. This is the case where Doc is actually better, because he at least has little issue in getting the kill.

I don't know much about Luigi, but if I recall correctly his nair is still deadly and he still gets followups off of dthrow, just not as bad as before.

 

[NotLiquid]

IDK what you all see in Mario, he's as all-around as it gets and that's his flaw. Take the damage lead and you can platform camp him because his killing options are limited to making reads with smash attacks or going for a fair. If you're playing on a low-ceiling stage, maybe uair.

He's mobile, but not threatening enough to challenge actively running away from him. This is the case where Doc is actually better, because he at least has little issue in getting the kill.

I don't know much about Luigi, but if I recall correctly his nair is still deadly and he still gets followups off of dthrow, just not as bad as before.

Having to kill off of reads isn't really an issue though since most of his best read kill moves are fairly safe and low-risk, USmash in particular. That's the thing most people criticizing Mario tend to gloss over from my experience; even though he's got more of a read based moveset when going into the kill it's still a really fucking good moveset. I'd say after the nerfs, Luigi's only real advantage over Mario is spacing and tilts.

 

[JulianImp]

Oh well, RIP Luigi I guess?

I'm still waiting for a Pac-Man anything. Actually, when was the last time a patch changed his properties and/or frame data?

 

[Thulius]

IDK what you all see in Mario, he's as all-around as it gets and that's his flaw. Take the damage lead and you can platform camp him because his killing options are limited to making reads with smash attacks or going for a fair. If you're playing on a low-ceiling stage, maybe uair.

He's mobile, but not threatening enough to challenge actively running away from him. This is the case where Doc is actually better, because he at least has little issue in getting the kill.

I don't know much about Luigi, but if I recall correctly his nair is still deadly and he still gets followups off of dthrow, just not as bad as before.

Luigi has the exact same flaws with less consistent punish options though. If you survive past the point where dthrow > tornado kills reliably (or play a character that can DI out of it) then he's pretty much stuck throwing out random smashes to secure a kill too. Not like it matters when both of them can Usmash all day and be relatively safe as long as they're not whiffing it in your face.

Tornado is the only thing that can even potentially catch someone who's just running away from him and (especially in 1.1.1) he's not gonna get a shield grab punish off anything spaced remotely well. Nair killing is nice and all but his traction makes it worthless as an OoS punish and most people know better than to run into it by now.

He's still not a bad character since the slight fireball nerfs mean nothing to a majority of the cast but he's only gotten worse since the game launched.

 

[Boney]

Does Mario have any bad match ups? Rosalina maybe?

It's not that he is a jack of all trades master of none. He has fantastic shield pressure game. Amazing combo game, all round best smashes in the game and a good recovery. - very good projectile. He's able to keep the pressure on run away does with aerials. Up air and dair have very good knockback growth actually. I'm always amazed at how good dair can actually kill. He's not top 3 but because I don't think he has particularity advantaged match ups against any top tiers but at the same time he's never at a full disadvantage.

Anti got too greedy with forward smashes so he wouldn't get to far behind in the last set and that cost him the match, but he had it in him if he continued his game plan to take out zero.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I'd argue Mario loses to Rosalina, ZSS, Fox, and is at a slight disadvantage versus Sheik. He can tango with everyone else though, he just has a hard time dealing with camping but I guess that's a Luigi problem too.

His usmash warrants respect for sure, I agree on that.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Oh well, RIP Luigi I guess?

I'm still waiting for a Pac-Man anything. Actually, when was the last time a patch changed his properties and/or frame data?

Pac-Man could definitely get some buffs as well as Bowser Jr. Seriously, Bowser Jr. have such a fun moveset, but at the same time, he is extremely underwhelming.

 

[NotLiquid]

I feel like Mario is at a disadvantage to any character that has a really strong spacing game, but even that would only be a 6/4 against his favor at worst I imagine since he's pretty effective at throwing out moves that disrupt mobility aggression. ZSS and Rosalina are the only explicit ones that come to mind as difficult ones as of right now. The latter ought to be no surprise to anyone. The former is arguably a fairly even matchup in terms of general moveset but that grab of hers reaps too many rewards and Mario is a character who seems slightly more susceptible to it. I'm almost wondering whether that was why ZeRo stopped to second guess for a bit at ZSS when he was considering a character switch from Sheik during the battle with ANTi.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Does Mario have any bad match ups? Rosalina maybe?

It's not that he is a jack of all trades master of none. He has fantastic shield pressure game. Amazing combo game, all round best smashes in the game and a good recovery. - very good projectile. He's able to keep the pressure on run away does with aerials. Up air and dair have very good knockback growth actually. I'm always amazed at how good dair can actually kill. He's not top 3 but because I don't think he has particularity advantaged match ups against any top tiers but at the same time he's never at a full disadvantage.

Anti got too greedy with forward smashes so he wouldn't get to far behind in the last set and that cost him the match, but he had it in him if he continued his game plan to take out zero.

He fell onto an up smash, was the moment I think he lost. People gave ZeRo so many free KO's trying to challenge Sheik on landing, like they forget she even has an up smash.

Luigi getting that much mileage out of grabs was just really stupid. A character shouldn't be that centralized. If it really makes a big difference other than him getting piss-easy KO's, we'll see and maybe he'll get buffed somehow. But the reasons he was potentially top 5, unpunishable fireball and combo off of grab at any percent, were both way too cheesy. It made him too polarizing of a character, losing badly to some projectile characters but utterly invaliding characters like Falco. He needs to be good in a way that isn't B B B B B B grab down b dead.

 

[Professor Beef]

He's mobile, but not threatening enough to challenge actively running away from him. This is the case where Doc is actually better, because he at least has little issue in getting the kill.

I would argue that Doc's killing power is in no way a good trade for anything regular Mario has.