Spinosaurus
Member
Oh so they actually got input shortcuts in Smash? That's pretty neat.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
GGs Juni, thanks for putting up with my awful Ryu.
Yea I figured that out. Still mess it up about half the time.
If I was doing an actual DP motion I'd probably get it wrong more like 80% of the time.
Yea I figured that out. Still mess it up about half the time.
If I was doing an actual DP motion I'd probably get it wrong more like 80% of the time.
I can still play. NNID is Crayolan.
Karsticles
Member
Charizard's uthrow now KOs earlier than Mewtwo's.
-_-
-_-
Made a room. Pretty sure I have you from Splatoon.
Psi Magnet has ridiculous knockback on it and has been amazing for edgeguarding for me, and his bair has an amazing angle on it so you can stay on the stage and go for a spike.
Knowing dthrow to uair worke would have done me a world of good earlier. Thanks for the tip.
Ryu is hard to use, you did fine for the first day. Besides I'm sure the lag did not help at all with the input commands.
Karsticles
Member
Wow, Mewtwo actually got a nerf. -_- Fewer characters land on the Battlefield platform after Confusion now.
Does Psi Magnet ever kill?
Bair hits below the stage?
You're welcome. Dthrow to Uair kills at about 120%.
Does Psi Magnet ever kill?
Bair hits below the stage?
Shamrock7r
Member
His fsmash is a ton quicker than ness' bat and it kos quite early. Easy to catch people off
Guard with it. His bthrow is quite powerful and will kill earlier than dthrow if he is near the edge of the stage.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, I got that Bthrow kills near ledges (at around 110%). Fsmash is pretty weak in this game, though, and I don't have a good way to set it up. I feel like he needs to KO with ledge guard tech, since he has two spikes, PK Freeze, and PK Thunder.
Edit: oh yeah, chaining Nair against heavies 5x in a row is really fun. Pewpewpew.
I don't know what I'm doing with Lucas, so I'm just kind of trying stuff out, seeing what works. I changed my color though.
I basically stopped coming after you... And stopped being Golden Boy Roy. Both entirely against type for me.
You've been throwing out a lot more of Lucas' heavy end lag moves ever since, so I went on the offensive this last match.
What I meant was hitting with Psi Magnet off stage sends opponents at an awkward angle and has decent knock back from what I could tell the couple of times I landed it.
With Bair, it sends opponents at an angle instead of straight down so it's a little more versatile than most spikes. I don't think it actually hits below the stage.
I'm sure all of that is old news to everyone, but those were my kill options before I read your post.
GGs, ditto me and Roy. Although I'm still very much inclined to drench him in gold and run around like an idiot with a flaming sword...
Still! I'm liking the changes they've made on him, and it feels reeeeeally good to sweet spot with him.
Dthrow to utilt works really well against heavies too (and works against most of the cast). Dair->utilt->nair->nair->uair
<3
One thing I need to get used to is after playing tons of Ness I tend to want to hit nair to get out of stuff. Wouldn't be a huge deal since Lucas's nair is pretty good but I tend to accidentally get rope snake.
Karsticles
Member
Ah, thank you for clarifying.
It took me a while to get used to letting go of shield before I did OoS Nair. I also has to swap my X button because I had it as grab for IADs, but with Lucas it pulls the snake out. Lost my first two matches hard because I was trying to air dodge out of shield but got the snake.Dthrow to utilt works really well against heavies too (and works against most of the cast). Dair->utilt->nair->nair->uair
<3
One thing I need to get used to is after playing tons of Ness I tend to want to hit nair to get out of stuff. Wouldn't be a huge deal since Lucas's nair is pretty good but I tend to accidentally get rope snake.
I really don't get his PK Thunder, though. Enormous recovery, PK Thunder 2 didn't even kill at 100%, and PK Thunder 2 goes so ridiculously far that I have SDd after landing it mid screen. It could be good for the ledge guard roll setup Shamrock uses, but it isn't safe on hit. It feels like it needs significantly less recovery to be useful.
Also, this makes it clear that Ness' customs are insanely OP, since they keep Ness' frame data for the most part.
Finally, today I learned that most of Smashboards wants Ness nerfs. Feels absurd to me, because I think Ness is extremely well balanced right now.
Anonymous Tipster
Member
Balanced compared to what, though? He's without a doubt top 10 and has very few weaknesses.
I'm not out calling for blood, but if I had to pick someone to nerf, he's not very far down my list.
I will say he and luma sure as hell didn't need any buffs.
Edit: I think it's great that you're liking Lucas though. I've been hearing pretty good things!
Yeah, it's apparently the strongest Up Throw in the game now as it should be considering the animation of the move. Charizard also has the longest non tether grab so I can see this boosting him straight to mid-high tier.
Anonymous Tipster
Member
So, I read that with no DI it kills sooner than Mewtwos, but with proper DI Mewtwo's kills slightly sooner. Forgot the numbers, but it's supposedly due to the angle of the throw?
Karsticles
Member
Balanced, when I use it, means beatable within reason. Ness is strong, but I have beaten Shamrock plenty of times, and he is the best Ness I have ever seen or played against. Shamrock beats me more than I beat him, but he is also a better player than I am.
In an ideal world, every character is strong in different ways, but has nothing mindless, cheap, spammy, etc. I can't say any of these things apply to Ness. He has to work hard for his kills. I imagine each character as having an archetypic ideal, and I try to get them there while keeping everything fair.
I suppose I would have to ask: what could even be nerfed on Ness that would be reasonable? PK Fire is punishable, PK Thunder can be killed, PK Flash is junk outside of shield breaks, Psi Magnet is highly situational, his aerials outside of Fair have weak range, and he needs Fair for maintaining space, his ground attacks all have weak range or awkward spacing (yoyo)...
At most, he could use a slight damage reduction, because he builds % crazy fast. However, he always has to take big risks to get those hits in, and he has to spend most of the fight maneuvering for precise strikes. He can also be killed extremely early due to the large startup on PK Thunder. I tend to take Ness as a character that shifts from a low risk low reward neutral to a high risk high reward neutral, and the exchange is that he can be shut down early on if you play your cards right.
A character like Mega man is entirely low risk low reward, but he lives an extemely long time to balance out his slow and procedural gameplay style.
Mewtwo is high risk medium reward, all the time.
Could be, I'm just going off what I read on the Charizard board on Smashboards, haven't had much time to test it out myself. Still though I'm glad it's on about the same level.
Anonymous Tipster
Member
Balanced, when I use it, means beatable within reason. Ness is strong, but I have beaten Shamrock plenty of times, and he is the best Ness I have ever seen or played against. Shamrock beats me more than I beat him, but he is also a better player than I am.
In an ideal world, every character is strong in different ways, but has nothing mindless, cheap, spammy, etc. I can't say any of these things apply to Ness. He has to work hard for his kills. I imagine each character as having an archetypic ideal, and I try to get them there while keeping everything fair.
I suppose I would have to ask: what could even be nerfed on Ness that would be reasonable? PK Fire is punishable, PK Thunder can be killed, PK Flash is junk outside of shield breaks, Psi Magnet is highly situational, his aerials outside of Fair have weak range, and he needs Fair for maintaining space, his ground attacks all have weak range or awkward spacing (yoyo)...
At most, he could use a slight damage reduction, because he builds % crazy fast. However, he always has to take big risks to get those hits in, and he has to spend most of the fight maneuvering for precise strikes. He can also be killed extremely early due to the large startup on PK Thunder. I tend to take Ness as a character that shifts from a low risk low reward neutral to a high risk high reward neutral, and the exchange is that he can be shut down early on if you play your cards right.
A character like Mega man is entirely low risk low reward, but he lives an extemely long time to balance out his slow and procedural gameplay style.
Mewtwo is high risk medium reward, all the time.
I'm not taking shots at Shamrock or anything. He's really good regardless of who he plays. I'm not even saying Ness is unmanageable or super unfair. I'm just saying compared to the majority of the characters, there aren't many ahead of him who I would adjust first if my arm was twisted.
If you're asking me what exactly I would nerf, I'd say two moves: His back-throw and his neutral air.
Back throw needs no explanation, but his grab, dash-grab, and pivot grab are all decent to great and the reward is a an opponent's stock. His throw has always been good, but I think the knockback could be adjusted downwards a bit.
Neutral air, is extremely fast, relatively low risk and a kill move at higher percents. On top of his already amazing air game, this move could use an adjustment to either its speed or knockback, in my opinion.
That's all I'd really do. His Up+B is easy for some characters to punish (Rosie & Villager come to mind) but it's so incredibly strong that it's a huge risk for some characters to attempt to challenge it off stage.
That said, like most people, I'm more in favor of buffing characters who need it as opposed to nerfing the top.
And hey, I know everyone likes to think it's all lemons and Metal Blades with Mega Man, but a huge number of his moves are extremely risky. They also happen to be his only kill moves outside of back air: Up-Smash, Up-Tilt, Down-Smash, Down-air and Forward-Smash. If those aren't the definition of commitment, I don't know what is!
It was like a 2-3% difference, but yeah they're basically the same.
Shamrock7r
Member
Ima make yall want them to nerf Lucas too ~ jk
~ jkMasked Man
I said wow
Ima make yall want them to nerf Lucas too
Let's make him the psychic kid people PK Love to hate.
Professor Beef
Banned
KittenMaster
Member
*goes onto For Glory, fights a player using Roy*
... It's weird having a Smash Game where Roy is better than Marth in pretty much every way.
... It's weird having a Smash Game where Roy is better than Marth in pretty much every way.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Karsticles
Member
MaskedMan, what is the deal with gray haired Lucas?
Haha, you aren't kidding.Ima make yall want them to nerf Lucas too
It really helps that his
sciencerob
Member
Anyone want to play some games? My NNID is sciencerob.
Karsticles
Member
Karsticles
Member
Absorb it, then recover.
No, as the Lucas player you wait for the Ness to PK Thunder. Yours should reach him just as his PK Thunder connects. It reduces the distance Ness travels and doesn't give him his recovery back. Unless my opponents were already hopelessly far away, but I'm pretty surr they were within the usual travel distance of an uninterrupted PKT.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Did they say when we'll be able to upload replays to youtube? Looking forward to that.
Karsticles
Member
Sounds rather difficult.
I plan on adding it next season; give people time to get used to the stage.
Nope.
direct_quote
Member
Just send them to karst
.