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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

I'd totally be okay if everyone wants to remove Halberd from the legal stage list btw. ;)

I always ban it in tourney/ranbats anyway.
Eh, we should follow trends. I just wish the trends were different. My locals ban Skyloft and Wuhu, though. I don't get how they are worse than Delfino. Castle Seige transitions have actually caused two character deaths in my experience (transitioning to the lava area while off-stage).

Nice Tifa avatar. ;-)

After Evo, though, we will re-vote on whether to allow customs or not. Where do you fall on that?
 

Crayolan

Member
Mr Game and Windboxes.

2 more games then I'll stop.

I dream of one day carrying someone in special fall across and off the stage with those windboxes.

GGs. Olimar is always annoying until I remember how the Pikmin work.

I'd totally be okay if everyone wants to remove Halberd from the legal stage list btw. ;)

I always ban it in tourney/ranbats anyway.

Nah, Halberd is awesome.
 

Juni_

Member
Looked at the replay Delfino glitch definitely killed me. Ban that stage and Halberd.


I dream of one day carrying someone in special fall across and off the stage with those windboxes.

GGs. Olimar is always annoying until I remember how the Pikmin work.


Glad it didn't happen to me. I guess I'll wait a while before playing you again to give you time to forget.
 
Just finished playing a Doc vs. Lucas set, shit almost went to time but I accidentally ran into a yolo dsmash. :/ Game 2 it did go to time, and I lost by one friggin percent, just barely missed that damn Lucas. Oh well, dude was Platinum (Master before Lucas) rank on Anther's so I'm glad I did as well as I did. :) Just means I gotta keep training and get even better!
 

TWILT

Banned
Eh, we should follow trends. I just wish the trends were different. My locals ban Skyloft and Wuhu, though. I don't get how they are worse than Delfino. Castle Seige transitions have actually caused two character deaths in my experience (transitioning to the lava area while off-stage).

Nice Tifa avatar. ;-)

After Evo, though, we will re-vote on whether to allow customs or not. Where do you fall on that?
Thanks; the FF7 remake hype is getting to me even if I know it'll take a WHILE before it's released lol.

Well, like I said before, I'm in the middle when it comes to customs. That said, given the choice, I'm probably gonna vote for their ban, at least for that season. I'll miss using some customs for some characters, but I do think that they really aren't balanced for competitive play. They didn't nerf any custom stuff (afaik) in this patch, so I doubt they're going to really touch them for balancing as much as I'd like to. If nothing else, I'd like to play another ranbat season without customs. I'll still play customs on in casuals and stuff though. In the chance that there's a majority vote for customs on though, maybe a banning system similar to banning stages could be implemented if people really don't want to deal with certain customs? Just throwing an idea there.
 
GG. Yeah was way too laggy.
Are you wired? Tipster usually has good internet.

Thanks; the FF7 remake hype is getting to me even if I know it'll take a WHILE before it's released lol.

Well, like I said before, I'm in the middle when it comes to customs. That said, given the choice, I'm probably gonna vote for their ban, at least for that season. I'll miss using some customs for some characters, but I do think that they really aren't balanced for competitive play. They didn't nerf any custom stuff (afaik) in this patch, so I doubt they're going to really touch them for balancing as much as I'd like to. If nothing else, I'd like to play another ranbat season without customs. I'll still play customs on in casuals and stuff though. In the chance that there's a majority vote for customs on though, maybe a banning system similar to banning stages could be implemented if people really don't want to deal with certain customs? Just throwing an idea there.
I think the problem with per-battle custom bans is that you might not have the custom set up. Plus, if you can ban 2 customs per character, it's pretty much the same as "no customs" for most characters, you know?

A few customs got buffed this patch because their coding is (apparently) tied to the default special. So Ness and Lucas got recovery bonuses on their down Bs, Ike's custom side Bs are faster now, etc.

Where is that Tifa art from, anyway? Looks cool.
 

TWILT

Banned
Are you wired? Tipster usually has good internet.


I think the problem with per-battle custom bans is that you might not have the custom set up. Plus, if you can ban 2 customs per character, it's pretty much the same as "no customs" for most characters, you know?

A few customs got buffed this patch because their coding is (apparently) tied to the default special. So Ness and Lucas got recovery bonuses on their down Bs, Ike's custom side Bs are faster now, etc.

Where is that Tifa art from, anyway? Looks cool.
Here's the art source for my avatar; really like it myself (had to dig through a looooot of NSFW stuff to find it...): https://twitter.com/tmty5/status/591570106645229570

Yeah, I totally get the problem with banning certain customs. I have all the customs for my main unlocked though, so if say someone were to ban Power Vision on me, I could just quickly make a custom set without if I wanted to use Shulk's other customs.
 

Masked Man

I said wow
I played at lunch with two of my coworkers as I often do, and it was great Lucas practice. A few notes:
- Follow-ups off of Lucas's Dthrow feel harder to land than they should. I feel like hitstun doesn't last long enough to Nair at lower percents, and the opponent travels too high to land a Uair at higher percents--even after a double jump!
- I've never played a Zair-user before (rather, I never used Rope Snake in Brawl because his range was pitiful), so I imagine I'm just not used to the input, but I often end up launching a Nair or Fair while recovering despite using the button assigned to Grab. Are you not allowed to touch the control stick while moving? I imagine that isn't the case, though, because I have no trouble poking with SH Zair while on-stage.
- Spiking with Bair is super-satisfying, but I'm still not very consistent with the timing nor with the hitbox. More often than not, I just graze them with the sourspot.
- PSI Magnet is great while recovering to the stage because it not only slows your falling speed, but also creates a quick and powerful hitbox right in front of you to protect against someone trying to edgeguard you. I netted a nice stage spike by releasing it just as my friend's Ryu went in for a Fair.
 
Here's the art source for my avatar; really like it myself (had to dig through a looooot of NSFW stuff to find it...): https://twitter.com/tmty5/status/591570106645229570

Yeah, I totally get the problem with banning certain customs. I have all the customs for my main unlocked though, so if say someone were to ban Power Vision on me, I could just quickly make a custom set without if I wanted to use Shulk's other customs.
Beautiful art, love the detail on her hair.

What I mean is more like...Bowser has 1 good custom total, Dash Slash. Villager has 3 great customs. If I had a 1-custom ban, it would just kind of screw Bowser players (and others) out of their 1 move that makes him viable, but Villager players would still get a huge boost. Or, imagine if there was a 1-custom ban rule, and you were fighting Palutena. You would ban Super Speed, wouldn't you? Hell, everyone would ban Super Speed, just like everyone would ban Dash Slash. The player might as well never use those moves while practicing, because they're never going to be usable anyway. No one would be dumb enough to ban something besides those customs on those characters.

Edit: Also, I looked at your Twitter for the first time. You are...very different there. So calm on GAF, so erratic on Twitter.
 

FSLink

Banned
I played at lunch with two of my coworkers as I often do, and it was great Lucas practice. A few notes:
- Follow-ups off of Lucas's Dthrow feel harder to land than they should. I feel like hitstun doesn't last long enough to Nair at lower percents, and the opponent travels too high to land a Uair at higher percents--even after a double jump!
- I've never played a Zair-user before (rather, I never used Rope Snake in Brawl because his range was pitiful), so I imagine I'm just not used to the input, but I often end up launching a Nair or Fair while recovering despite using the button assigned to Grab. Are you not allowed to touch the control stick while moving? I imagine that isn't the case, though, because I have no trouble poking with SH Zair while on-stage.
- Spiking with Bair is super-satisfying, but I'm still not very consistent with the timing nor with the hitbox. More often than not, I just graze them with the sourspot.
- PSI Magnet is great while recovering to the stage because it not only slows your falling speed, but also creates a quick and powerful hitbox right in front of you to protect against someone trying to edgeguard you. I netted a nice stage spike by releasing it just as my friend's Ryu went in for a Fair.

- I agree, but use dthrow -> utilt at lower percents and chase the opponent's DI with nair or uair depending on percent. The "Lu-Hah" seems pretty percent specific so it's something I gotta go in the lab with.
- Use Shield + A
- I like to use one jump for bair and then do a rising dair on my way back to the stage, giving me another opportunity to spike.
- PSI Magnet is fun, but shame it lost the momentum from Brawl. I remember PK Firing into PSI Magnet to catch a friend of mine at the blast zone to kill in Brawl.
 

Masked Man

I said wow
- I agree, but use dthrow -> utilt at lower percents and chase the opponent's DI with nair or uair depending on percent. The "Lu-Hah" seems pretty percent specific so it's something I gotta go in the lab with.
- Use Shield + A
- I like to use one jump for bair and then do a rising dair on my way back to the stage, giving me another opportunity to spike.
- PSI Magnet is fun, but shame it lost the momentum from Brawl. I remember PK Firing into PSI Magnet to catch a friend of mine at the blast zone to kill in Brawl.

From one main to another, thank you! I'm gonna hit the lab tonight after work. :)
 

JulianImp

Member
"You're open!"

He says it really quick, but I like to think that's Ike being the dude he is, spouting off at the enemy in the heat of battle.
That kind of sucks. I like the JP versions's 甘い! (kind of "you call that an attack?") more. Same as Sonic still saying "You're too slow", only with a less annoying voice than Brawl's US VA.
 
I played at lunch with two of my coworkers as I often do, and it was great Lucas practice. A few notes:
- Follow-ups off of Lucas's Dthrow feel harder to land than they should. I feel like hitstun doesn't last long enough to Nair at lower percents, and the opponent travels too high to land a Uair at higher percents--even after a double jump!
- I've never played a Zair-user before (rather, I never used Rope Snake in Brawl because his range was pitiful), so I imagine I'm just not used to the input, but I often end up launching a Nair or Fair while recovering despite using the button assigned to Grab. Are you not allowed to touch the control stick while moving? I imagine that isn't the case, though, because I have no trouble poking with SH Zair while on-stage.

It's not hard to land neutral air, you just can't overestimate how long Lucas is stuck in the throw animation. He recovers pretty quickly. The main problem with followups is that it's easy to DI, so they'll either go forward or straight up, and there isn't time to react and still combo, so you need to make a read. Lucas has good throws, but "Lu Ha" isn't nearly as much of a thing as people seem to think it is.

I don't know, I've never had trouble using zair in this game. Gotten plenty of good snake snipes with Lucas so far.
 
Can anyone point to the the changelog that this patch brought?

You'll have to look through here: http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-ver-1-08-patch-thread-move-to-new-thread.406196/

Interesting things are Falco's aerials got changed/ buffed, Diddy Kong's up air hitbox nerfed slightly (yet Sheik is apparently untouched aside from removing a glitch...), Villager's balloons need to "recharge" like ROB's burners, so they might not be utterly ungimpable at this point. Charizard's Up throw is a viable KO move, Greninja's forward tilt is now actually useful, Luma's 2% HP nerf in the last patch was undone because obviously Rosalina is just such a bad character who struggles horribly.
 
You'll have to look through here: http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-ver-1-08-patch-thread-move-to-new-thread.406196/

Interesting things are Falco's aerials got changed/ buffed, Diddy Kong's up air hitbox nerfed slightly (yet Sheik is apparently untouched aside from removing a glitch...), Villager's balloons need to "recharge" like ROB's burners, so they might not be utterly ungimpable at this point. Charizard's Up throw is a viable KO move, Greninja's forward tilt is now actually useful, Luma's 2% HP nerf in the last patch was undone because obviously Rosalina is just such a bad character who struggles horribly.
Also, Marth, Ike, and Lucina got huge buffs to numerous moves.

Sonic got one buff and one nerf.

Samus got buffed.

Great patch overall. No Sheik nerf is BS, but that doesn't change all the things that did change being great.
 

TWILT

Banned
Some stuff on my day 3 Ryu:
  • EX Shoryuken's no landing lag is hilarious. When I whiff'd one, my opponent would try to punish with an FSmash, but I'd just do another one and hit/KO them lol. Smarter opponents would try and punish with a grab though.
  • Having a bit trouble doing it out of shield though because of the input, so I'm being a bit more risky with the up B version. Most of EX Shoryuken kills are reads/dashing up and doing it.
  • My BnB combo so far is NAir > l.utilt a few times > Shoryuken or grab. Seems pretty reliable, though hard to land on a shielding opponent of course.
  • DThrow can lead into UTilt strings at 0%, but it's a bit harder to do against lighter opponents/with rage. Around mid percent, it does true combo into FAir/UAir though.
  • FADC in the air can almost act like an air dash of sorts. Also has like no landing lag either; might use it more for fake outs/mix ups.
  • Tatsumaki's pretty decent at spinning through weak projectiles. At least if I do it up close. Should use it to punish back rolls more too.
  • DAir spiking is like the most satisfying thing ever.
  • Using a different character right after using Ryu sometimes doesn't work. I actually tried to fire a fire ball with Pikachu and got Skullbash by accident. x_x Been neglecting the little guy lately; will practice with more later today.
Edit: Also, I looked at your Twitter for the first time. You are...very different there. So calm on GAF, so erratic on Twitter.

Am I? Never really noticed haha. Guess I'm a bit more cautious of what I post on GAF I suppose and Twitter's a bit more personal, though I try to be myself either way.
 
All these Ike buffs, this is even better than the Final Fantasy VII and Shenmue 3 annoucement. To think that I wanted to get a new main before the patch :D
 
No mewtwo buffs though... The struggle is real.
It's okay. I respect Sakurai taking his time with stuff. He needs to be sure players complaints aren't knee-jerk reactions. I mean, who can claim to have mastered Mewtwo thus far? Well, no one, since everyone has dropped him. Kappa.

Mewtwo isn't unplayable, and I still think he is mid tier. I win with him quite a bit, and I won a fair number of matches against Nabster and Cyberman recently, whom are both great players. Sure, I have to work much, much harder than they do for the win, but the situation is doable.

Now, I am not too happy about the Confusion nerf...

Pretty happy Sonic got another nerf, though. :)

Thanks for the link guys! On a different note, why do none of the dlc characters have custom moves?
Sakurai doesn't take them seriously. Same reason they aren't getting balanced in patches.


All these Ike buffs, this is even better than the Final Fantasy VII and Shenmue 3 annoucement. To think that I wanted to get a new main before the patch :D
In a game getting patches as often as Smash 4, I don't think anyone should drop their main due to tier placing. Patience will pay off in the end.
 
I think they do take them seriously. But Mewtwo's presence is basically nonexistent, so who's out there pointing out that his hitboxes are a little weird and his grab misses on small characters or whatever? Custom moves were just only ever intended to be a fun experiment, not an integral part of each character.

Anyone looking to play?
 
I think they do take them seriously. But Mewtwo's presence is basically nonexistent, so who's out there pointing out that his hitboxes are a little weird and his grab misses on small characters or whatever? Custom moves were just only ever intended to be a fun experiment, not an integral part of each character.

Anyone looking to play?
"Them"?

I want to make a video of all this so bad.
 
We need customs because obviously having people die at early percents makes the game "faster" and speed is the primary hallmark by which a fighting game's quality should be judged by. Obviously.

Is anyone around to play?
 
Some initial Lucas thoughts from my very poor play on a 3DS.

- He doesn't have the awesome movement he had in Brawl, mostly because a lack of momentum shift in PK Magnet. I imagine he is going to play a lot closer to Ness because of this.

-What is good about his PK Magnet, and this is a lot closer to what Ness had in Brawl that I was sad to see leave, is it delays his vertical drop, similar to Fox and his down B. This opens up some excellent approach and fake out strategies when recovering from up high.

- Even though his PK Magnet momentum was neutered, it is still a viable part of his offensive arsenal. Catches people off guard, and it quickly turns him around.

- Now that his tether actually attacks and is extremely long, I imagine it will be one of his primary offensive and spacing options. I can see multiple scenarios where it is more beneficial to use it up close vs PK Fire. This move, in conjunction with PK fire, makes me believe it will be extremely hard for some characters to approach Lucas without having to take some risk.

- His PK Fire is essentially unchange, and that's a good thing. It provides amazing momentum shifting when you are in the air, depending on how fast you are moving back, opposite the direction of where the PK Fire is being throne.This makes in an awesome and incredibly safe harassing move. You can also use this off stage along with Lucas's very good recovery options to gimp from quite a distance.

-His short game is lacking. I think the key to beating Lucas will be to get up close next to him. His nair has a very small hitbox and seems to only hit larger characters out of shield. His Dair seems like the best out of shield option but I can see a good player being able to counter this in some respects. He has a decent fair and a very good uair (although not as powerful as Ness). His bair is situational but it is very handy. His forward and up tilts are very good, much better than Ness. Is dtilt is seemingly useless now that it doesn't trip.

-Lucas was made to gimp the opponent off stage. He is floaty, and has a wealth of recovery options. I can see this being one of the primary ways he scores KOs

-His Fsmash is still awesome. Doesn't seem as powerful as in Brawl though. His usmash is great as usual, albeit situational. His dsmash is actually a very good move when used correctly, because the 3 attacks can throw some players off. I find it to be a good move to use when someone is recovering from the edge and has a tendency to recover without jumping. This is also a good move to bust out against players who attack up close very quickly, like Sonic, because the 3 hitboxes spread out give you a bit more room to time the attack correctly vs an fsmash.

- His PK2 is great. Obviously not a kill move in the same vain as Ness, but it can KO if you hit the person at the beginning of the PK2, which in actually isn't hard to do and I have already done it multiple times, because the PK Thunder goes through opponents.

-His dthrow is great for juggling, his uthrow will eventually kill. His bthrow and fthrow are excellent throws to get the player off stage.

-His PK Freeze is actually a decent changeup harassing tool. I would throw it out there from time to time. Much much better than Ness's Flash or his crappy version of Freeze. It can be difficult to time when the player is going to break out of the ice, and at high percents they will be pretty high, making it hard to follow up with a KO move, so instead I would focus on timing a PK THunder to harass and get a few extra hits when they break out.

- So how should you play Lucas. You actually, in my opinion, play him very similarly to Ness in a lot of ways. They have the same approach, they just do it differently. Maintain spacing with PK Fire and your Snake tether. If the opponent gets close, switch to your tilts, escape with a Dair and a PK fire while in the air. Don't be afraid to go off stage and gimp. If you are going to be a good Lucas player, you have to be able to play off stage consitently. Use nair when the opponent is close above you. Use Magnet almost randomly to make the opponent think about how they will aproach. Don't forget that Lucas can also reflect with his fsmash, and it is much quicker coming out than Ness's bat.

It looks like his primary killing options are uair, fsmash, and preventing the player from recovering off stage. Secondary killing options are uthrow, usmash, PK2 at beginning of attack. Situational kill options are dsmash, utilt if percentage gets high, and PK Freeze

He doesn't look to be as good as Ness overall in terms of the roster, but I can see Lucas being a better matchup option vs some characters that Ness struggles with, like Rosalina and Sonic.
 
I'll make a room soon if you didn't already.



The sweetspot on his forward air as well as forward and back throws (with rage) are KO's at the ledge.

Yea, good points. His fair is a very good harass off stage against players with good recoveries. Against players with bad recoveries I would try pkfire and snake first as you have a little more range and you aren't trying to KO, just prevent them from recovering.
 
Dammit, finally bought an ethernet adapter to hopefully get some better connections with US people but my Wii U doesn't recognize it. It says on the box it's compatible with the Wii so I assumed it would work on Wii U too... I just get a message to plug my adapter in one of the USB ports but it's already connected.
 
I fully believe Zelda's aerial sweetspots were buffed. There really isn't any reason for me to have a near overnight consistent almost 3x increase in landing them.
 
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