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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog

E

emb

Member
Karsticles said:
GGs Vena. I enjoyed our matches.


Done.
Click to expand...
GGs!

Man that was frustrating. X.X Any tips on how to not get fortress'd? I was shielding it ok once in a while, but most of the time I felt like I couldn't punish anything since fortress would follow.

I do feel like you would down air or down b a little pre-emptively once in a while. Is there a reason for that? Either way, beautiful work; you're really good.
 
V

Vena

Member
Puruzi said:
Yeah, I have a bad habit of rolling when I don't need to :L
Click to expand...

Its ok, I am not good enough to reliably punish it. But keep it in mind for better players lol.

Can't decide which control scheme I like more. I feel like _I is better as its giving me better aerial control with marth.
 
P

Puruzi

Banned
Vena said:
Its ok, I am not good enough to reliably punish it. But keep it in mind for better players lol.

Can't decide which control scheme I like more. I feel like _I is better as its giving me better aerial control with marth.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sding when I screwed up, massive failure on my part lol
 
K

Karsticles

Member
emb said:
GGs!

Man that was frustrating. X.X Any tips on how to not get fortress'd? I was shielding it ok once in a while, but most of the time I felt like I couldn't punish anything since fortress would follow.

I do feel like you would down air or down b a little pre-emptively once in a while. Is there a reason for that? Either way, beautiful work; you're really good.
Click to expand...
Well, the first two matches I was just messing around. So I used down B and Dair a lot. Then you won the second one, so I stopped. Then the ranbat matches finished, so I started doing it more because it is fun. Not much more to it than that, I am afraid.

The only smart dairs I was doing was to punish your recovery after sniffing a ledge chase. That usually works well, and sometimes spikes. Bowser just requires the player to sometimes say "why not?", haha. The better the player, though, the less I do that stuff.

Best ways to not get Fortress'd:
1) Dont land on Bowser.
2) Dont roll or spot dodge near Bowser.
3) Be swift with your punishes.

Those are the big situations it gets used in. Against very careful players that don't roll, I will rarely get to Fortress. If you get hit by Fortress, it is pretty much an indicator that you did something unsafe. It takes practice to shield consistently, like most multihit moves.
 
M

Masked Man

I said wow
Just have one more set of matches and then I'm done with ranbats for this current season. That was fast! lol
Speaking of which, I PM'ed Malajax, but has anyone seen him around the thread lately? Hopefully he hasn't disappeared like just about everyone else in my bracket...
 
E

emb

Member
Karsticles said:
Well, the first two matches I was just messing around. So I used down B and Dair a lot. Then you won the second one, so I stopped. Then the ranbat matches finished, so I started doing it more because it is fun. Not much more to it than that, I am afraid.

The only smart dairs I was doing was to punish your recovery after sniffing a ledge chase. That usually works well, and sometimes spikes. Bowser just requires the player to sometimes say "why not?", haha. The better the player, though, the less I do that stuff.

Best ways to not get Fortress'd:
1) Dont land on Bowser.
2) Dont roll or spot dodge near Bowser.
3) Be swift with your punishes.

Those are the big situations it gets used in. Against very careful players that don't roll, I will rarely get to Fortress. If you get hit by Fortress, it is pretty much an indicator that you did something unsafe. It takes practice to shield consistently, like most multihit moves.
Click to expand...
I think landing near Bowser was the hardest thing to avoid. Most of the game (or maybe players I've played) has me feeling like fair on shield is pretty safe as long as I'm not in grab range. Not true here lol. You got the rolls with it too though, your reactions to rolls were crazy.
 
J

jnWake

Member
I ended with 4-5 in the ranbats. Not that bad, although there were some close sets that I could have won. I'll get my revenge in Season 2!

I'm trying to pick up Marth now. He's pretty fun but a bit frustrating in a game full of projectile heavy characters. The amount of campers I battled in For Glory was so annoying (although I got some nice Shield Breaker kills). Landing tippers is super satisfying and Shield Breaker is a very mindgame-ish attack.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
emb said:
I think landing near Bowser was the hardest thing to avoid. Most of the game (or maybe players I've played) has me feeling like fair on shield is pretty safe as long as I'm not in grab range. Not true here lol. You got the rolls with it too though, your reactions to rolls were crazy.
Click to expand...
As Bowser, my goal is always to try and get in a kind of sweetspot while you try to land. Under you is fine because Fortress > almost everything, and then there's an area about one character length away that's hard for Bowser to deal with. Beyond that, Bowser's dash attack tends to beat anything the opponent does, and it comes out fast and has a lot of range.

I feel like my reactions to rolls need to be better, actually. Too many times I don't punish. But here's a thought: your strategy with Sheik was to primarily run and throw needles. The needles hit me a lot, and they did good damage. My goal is to close the distance, and I always did (and always should be able to). Once I get to you, you're at the ledge, and I have the rest of the stage to work out my spacing. Bowser's normals outrange Sheik's, so Sheik is in a tough spot. A lot of people roll in this situation, but it's not a good decision. I think it's worthwhile to ask: is the needle damage worth it if you get pushed to the edge like that?

I don't play Sheik, but it looked like your needles usually did 4-5% damage. Bowser's attacks all do 12%+, and give follow-up pressure. If you hit me 3 times with needles before I get to you, you are dealing 15%. If I make good use of my positioning, you will take at least 12%. If I get the follow-up, I did 25%, and now the needles were for nothing. Meanwhile, being Sheik, you need to deal much, much more damage to KO me than I do to KO you. I can KO you ~90% with a good Bowser Bomb, while in one of our matches I was ~200% before I died. So, you aren't even in a position where you can trade % and feel good about it. However, if I take 15% to deal 12% to you with a follow-up, I'm pretty happy with that situation.

jnWake said:
I ended with 4-5 in the ranbats. Not that bad, although there were some close sets that I could have won. I'll get my revenge in Season 2!

I'm trying to pick up Marth now. He's pretty fun but a bit frustrating in a game full of projectile heavy characters. The amount of campers I battled in For Glory was so annoying (although I got some nice Shield Breaker kills). Landing tippers is super satisfying and Shield Breaker is a very mindgame-ish attack.
Click to expand...
SHADC through projectiles!
 
E

emb

Member
Karsticles said:
As Bowser, my goal is always to try and get in a kind of sweetspot while you try to land. Under you is fine because Fortress > almost everything, and then there's an area about one character length away that's hard for Bowser to deal with. Beyond that, Bowser's dash attack tends to beat anything the opponent does, and it comes out fast and has a lot of range.

I feel like my reactions to rolls need to be better, actually. Too many times I don't punish. But here's a thought: your strategy with Sheik was to primarily run and throw needles. The needles hit me a lot, and they did good damage. My goal is to close the distance, and I always did (and always should be able to). Once I get to you, you're at the ledge, and I have the rest of the stage to work out my spacing. Bowser's normals outrange Sheik's, so Sheik is in a tough spot. A lot of people roll in this situation, but it's not a good decision. I think it's worthwhile to ask: is the needle damage worth it if you get pushed to the edge like that?

I don't play Sheik, but it looked like your needles usually did 4-5% damage. Bowser's attacks all do 12%+, and give follow-up pressure. If you hit me 3 times with needles before I get to you, you are dealing 15%. If I make good use of my positioning, you will take at least 12%. If I get the follow-up, I did 25%, and now the needles were for nothing. Meanwhile, being Sheik, you need to deal much, much more damage to KO me than I do to KO you. I can KO you ~90% with a good Bowser Bomb, while in one of our matches I was ~200% before I died. So, you aren't even in a position where you can trade % and feel good about it. However, if I take 15% to deal 12% to you with a follow-up, I'm pretty happy with that situation.


SHADC through projectiles!
Click to expand...
The position is almost always more important than the damage. I try to retreat and throw needles if I feel like I'm losing too often at neutral. Basically, I panic. I'm glad you pointed it out, I really need to be more conscious about stopping after one, maybe two attempts and try to reclaim center stage. I think most of the time people let me get away with rolling or shield grabbing, might explain why I've made it such a bad habit.

The disparity in kill percents is definitely what makes the matchup so frustrating. The natural response to landing a few fairs or ftilts is always for me to think "oh, I got several hits, good things are happening" but in this game it's all pretty irrelevant. Seems like it's more a matter of patience than anything.

I had way too much trouble trying to get you with anything off the edge. Bowser's up is super hard to hit through. I guess I need to bait out your air dodges by feigning needles? Air dodge has such a small window of vulnerability, I can't figure out how to get anything there.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
I'm beginning to think about half your KO's came from my SDs. >>;;; GGs Twilt, my MK just isn't up to par it seems. How terrible...


Oh, er not to diminish your wins or anything. You won and that's that.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
emb said:
The position is almost always more important than the damage. I try to retreat and throw needles if I feel like I'm losing too often at neutral. Basically, I panic. I'm glad you pointed it out, I really need to be more conscious about stopping after one, maybe two attempts and try to reclaim center stage. I think most of the time people let me get away with rolling or shield grabbing, might explain why I've made it such a bad habit.

The disparity in kill percents is definitely what makes the matchup so frustrating. The natural response to landing a few fairs or ftilts is always for me to think "oh, I got several hits, good things are happening" but in this game it's all pretty irrelevant. Seems like it's more a matter of patience than anything.

I had way too much trouble trying to get you with anything off the edge. Bowser's up is super hard to hit through. I guess I need to bait out your air dodges by feigning needles? Air dodge has such a small window of vulnerability, I can't figure out how to get anything there.
Click to expand...
Well, you have combos and I don't, so it evens out. :p

I have never been gimped by a Sheik before, so I don't have good advice there. Bowser gets hit hard by dair spikes because Fortress' directionality and speed is easy to predict. I thought the one or two times you used Sheik's up B to hit me off stage were really effective, though.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
I did a vote with some of my friends who are coming to the tournament, I even included Star-Neoxon as an option. I've settled on The Legendary
Star-Lord
.
 
T

TWILT

Banned
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
I'm beginning to think about half your KO's came from my SDs. >>;;; GGs Twilt, my MK just isn't up to par it seems. How terrible...


Oh, er not to diminish your wins or anything. You won and that's that.
Click to expand...
GGs Captain RQ. Nice Metaknight (though obviously, you might wanna work not SDing so often like that :p). You got my Pikachu a ton; so many side Bs/up Bs kept hitting me >_<. I'd play more, but I got a busy day tomorrow. Fun games!

And don't worry, it's cool. :)
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Neoxon said:
I did a vote with some of my friends who are coming to the tournament, I even included Star-Neoxon as an option. I've settled on The Legendary
Star-Lord
.
Click to expand...
Who?


You should go as Neo Peter Quill, for the effect.

Oh, um yeah @TWILT I guess I did handle your Pika fairly well when I wasn't plummeting to my doom on my own. :p But next time it'll be your Link that I handle the same way!
 
K

Kangi

Member
Remembered this was in my album and decided to share. Just because.

wiiu_screenshot_tv_01jqutf.jpg
Click to expand...
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Who?


You should go as Neo Peter Quill, for the effect.

Oh, um yeah @TWILT I guess I did handle your Pika fairly well when I wasn't plummeting to my doom on my own. :p But next time it'll be your Link that I handle the same way!
Click to expand...
I'll probably get the "Who?" reaction anyway, but I'll keep that in mind.
 
E

emb

Member
Karsticles said:
Well, you have combos and I don't, so it evens out. :p

I have never been gimped by a Sheik before, so I don't have good advice there. Bowser gets hit hard by dair spikes because Fortress' directionality and speed is easy to predict. I thought the one or two times you used Sheik's up B to hit me off stage were really effective, though.
Click to expand...
Hehe, if nothing else the combos are fun at least.

Yeah, up B did work a time or two.

Thanks for the post match discussion! I feel like this helps a ton, just verbalizing strategies and areas needing improvement. At worst I'm more likely to remember it, at best I've learned some things.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Since we were talking about rolls, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=kkWdfYfBDDY&x-yt-ts=1421914688
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wNTYjJCA6EM2aXD5nO8l9LHLjjim3HIiDJt8p4-Pseo/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Bowser has the worst roll in the game. :-(

emb said:
Hehe, if nothing else the combos are fun at least.

Yeah, up B did work a time or two.

Thanks for the post match discussion! I feel like this helps a ton, just verbalizing strategies and areas needing improvement. At worst I'm more likely to remember it, at best I've learned some things.
Click to expand...
I love post match discussions, so count on them any time!
 
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