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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog

S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
I would say a character's ability to not be completely rolled by top tier pretty much determines where they end up. Zero Suit especially, who isn't blatantly overpowered in the way Diddy Kong is, but tends to completely destroy people more decisively. Sheik is probably the most modest of the top tiers despite her ridiculous frames and that most heavies are basically free to her, mainly because she doesn't have a really fast kill move like Zero Suit, Diddy, and Sonic (don't try to say he doesn't, his smashes are fast and his back throw is absurd). Even though Floppy Fish is the greatest move ever.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
direct_quote said:
Dabuz's tier list.
B8-ekBBIcAEtvmO.png
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is going to dispute the Top 3 for the next 2-3 months of meta. There was a time I thought Pikachu was better than Sonic but as of late it really feels like Pika has to put way too much work into securing stocks. Looking into accurate positions in B-Tier and below right now is completely superfluous, though I feel like Pac-Man might breach into the lower A's.

4-11 feel like reasonable placements but it's hard to say because none of the characters thus far have any easy ride. People have yet to put a lot of work into Peach even though people agree she's generally one of the high rollers. Thus far I think Ness should be bumped a bit higher in that specific echelon, maybe just swap positions with Peach. Right now I feel like, aside from mobility tools, any guaranteed setups are what determines character quality. It's also why I'm tempted to put Luigi over Mario; despite having terrible air mobility, Luigi's moveset is just really damn good at racking damage and is efficient in killing, though it becomes a real problem if he can't go in for any grabs.

I still think it's a solid list all in all though and I expect the first official tier list to be very similar to this one.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
GGs Trey. That's a great Peach. I had a lot of trouble landing hits on here with some of my characters.

I think my Pac Man is getting there. I have been quite aggressive with attacking with him vs using his range moves for spacing and I think it is paying off.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
I would definitely put Luigi over Mario. It's surprisingly tough to get through his fireballs, he's hard to punish, his smashes are really strong, his aerials are ridiculous, his throw game is ridiculous, his recovery of all things is ridiculous, though some characters probably have an easy time intercepting him.
 
T

Trey

Member
Shamrock7r said:
GGs Trey. That's a great Peach. I had a lot of trouble landing hits on here with some of my characters.

I think my Pac Man is getting there. I have been quite aggressive with attacking with him vs using his range moves for spacing and I think it is paying off.
Click to expand...

yeah, Pac Man was the most fun to fight. I had to learn the Mii Fighter and WFT matchups on the fly. I usually destory bowsers but you made good reads.

I was most looking forward to the Ness, however.

Also, I'm impressed how quickly you caught on to my dthrow -> uair/smash setup. I only landed it the one time and never again.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Vena said:
Why is Luigi not in S-Tier? That seems very bizarre to me.
Click to expand...

When people discuss S-tiers I generally feel like that's considered to be most of the consequence-free zone. Someone like Diddy isn't just easy to use with the brain dead Hoo Haa but his neutral game is tremendous, giving him so many options of approach. Same goes for the likes of Sheik and Sonic who have incredibly good mobility, fast moves and can set up kills relatively safely. I think Luigi is definitely in the high ends of the A for his good neutral game, stellar grab game, general mobility and good recovery capabilities, but I don't think he fits the bill for S.

Poor aerial mobility and relatively below-average range are some distinct weaknesses Luigi has to overcome. Most of his setups come from grabs and although they're really damn good setups that guarantee a lot of damage and kills, he needs them far more than say, Diddy. If opponents can shut out a grab then Luigi's going to have a hard time with the approach.
 
G

Gucci Messiah

Banned
Posted this yesterday and didn't get any replies so I'll try again: I just got Smash 4 yesterday and would love to play online with you guys. I'm very, VERY bad at the game but would love feedback on how to improve. Punishing air dodges is something I struggle with big time along with pulling off tilts and knowing when to pressure. NNID is GucciGAF.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Gucci Messiah said:
Posted this yesterday and didn't get any replies so I'll try again: I just got Smash 4 yesterday and would love to play online with you guys. I'm very, VERY bad at the game but would love feedback on how to improve. Punishing air dodges is something I struggle with big time along with pulling off tilts and knowing when to pressure. NNID is GucciGAF.
Click to expand...
If nobody else offers to play then I'll duel you in 30 minutes time, sound fair?

Forgot to mention, feel free to add me in the meanwhile NNID: CRQ-L-07
 
V

Vena

Member
GGs Boney. Had a lot of fun with the dittos.


Word of note, it works against me since I am terrible, but you roll wayyy too much. I suck at punishing it but others would simply eat that up. :D
 
J

jorgejjvr

Member
NotLiquid said:
I don't think anyone is going to dispute the Top 3 for the next 2-3 months of meta. There was a time I thought Pikachu was better than Sonic but as of late it really feels like Pika has to put way too much work into securing stocks. Looking into accurate positions in B-Tier and below right now is completely superfluous, though I feel like Pac-Man might breach into the lower A's.

4-11 feel like reasonable placements but it's hard to say because none of the characters thus far have any easy ride. People have yet to put a lot of work into Peach even though people agree she's generally one of the high rollers. Thus far I think Ness should be bumped a bit higher in that specific echelon, maybe just swap positions with Peach. Right now I feel like, aside from mobility tools, any guaranteed setups are what determines character quality. It's also why I'm tempted to put Luigi over Mario; despite having terrible air mobility, Luigi's moveset is just really damn good at racking damage and is efficient in killing, though it becomes a real problem if he can't go in for any grabs.

I still think it's a solid list all in all though and I expect the first official tier list to be very similar to this one.
Click to expand...
LOL I like how little Mac is in the 'bad' section, more reasons to show people otherwise
 
V

Vena

Member
Watch Sakurai inexplicably nerf the frame data on dodge, make shield have 1 HP, and power shielding actually causes you damage.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Your samus is league's better than the rest of your characters and you know her really well.

Things I do that should help you a bit is
-use the grapple beam in the air for zoning, it can combo into grab or help yourself set up other stuff.
- use down throw a lot more, it's amazing it'll combo into uair or fair and those can combo into some stuff else.
-I do use bombs a little more to help with some setups or some defense. Admittedly those can get me killed at times.

Still, it's pretty good, you know your charge shots and that's what made the mirror matches so tough and even, we both knew the character really well and it was hard to surprise each other with the kills.

Fun stuff, i really need to use the screw attack a lot more both as follow up and as out of shield which I saw you use a bit more.

Cool matches.

Vena said:
GGs Boney. Had a lot of fun with the dittos.


Word of note, it works against me since I am terrible, but you roll wayyy too much. I suck at punishing it but others would simply eat that up. :D
Click to expand...
I've been getting that a lot for the past few fights. Guess that's gonna have to be worked out soon or I'm gonna be getting punished for sucking.
Gucci Messiah said:
Posted this yesterday and didn't get any replies so I'll try again: I just got Smash 4 yesterday and would love to play online with you guys. I'm very, VERY bad at the game but would love feedback on how to improve. Punishing air dodges is something I struggle with big time along with pulling off tilts and knowing when to pressure. NNID is GucciGAF.
Click to expand...
I did reply but I quoted it wrong and erased the first [ so it was kinda hidden in a bunch of text.
Sorry for the ditz

I would now but I've aged for a really long while now and need some rest.

You add friends in the home menu, there's an icon for friends.
 
J

jorgejjvr

Member
Gucci Messiah said:
Posted this yesterday and didn't get any replies so I'll try again: I just got Smash 4 yesterday and would love to play online with you guys. I'm very, VERY bad at the game but would love feedback on how to improve. Punishing air dodges is something I struggle with big time along with pulling off tilts and knowing when to pressure. NNID is GucciGAF.
Click to expand...
I'm currently at work but I would love to play you when I get a chance, my ID is my username. Sorry no one responded to you in all the conversations going on. Anyways, congrats on getting smash and I'm guessing a wii u lol, it's a great game. This might be cheesy but practice and learning from your opponent is one of the best advice I can give you. As far as air dodges you can try to move in and make it seem like you are going to hit they will air Dodge and THEN you really make your move to punish them, trick them, play mind games. Some characters in the air can do up a, the opponent could Dodge but then you can do side A right after and still punish them. For tilts I recommend going to the controller settings and undoing UP for jumping, like that you will be able to jump with Y and now when you press Up and A whenever it will always be a tilt, or smash if you hold it
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Gucci Messiah said:
How do I add you as a friend? I just got a Wii U two weeks ago.
Click to expand...
From the Wii U menu, there will be an orange smiley face on the bottom of the screen (where all the apps are.) That's the friend list. From there, simply "Add Friend" and type in the NNID you wish to add. Then wait for that person to accept your request, and you're done!


On the above tier list, I don't agree with Mac being considered "unviable" simply because he makes for a really good secondary to have if you counterpick to a flat stage. He's never going to take tourneys in the current meta, though. :(
 
J

jorgejjvr

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
From the Wii U menu, there will be an orange smiley face on the bottom of the screen (where all the apps are.) That's the friend list. From there, simply "Add Friend" and type in the NNID you wish to add. Then wait for that person to accept your request, and you're done!


On the above tier list, I don't agree with Mac being considered "unviable" simply because he makes for a really good secondary to have if you counterpick to a flat stage. He's never going to take tourneys in the current meta, though. :(
Click to expand...
I also think he doesn't belong there. He's my main and don't plan on changing that, I want to prove the world he's a force to be reckoned with.
 
J

jorgejjvr

Member
NotLiquid said:
I still maintain that Little Mac deserves his own little "Cheese" tier

He does a lot of shit well on ground but is that really worth the risk
Click to expand...
As a mac main, I tend to compensate for his weakness well and manage in the air when coming back. And it is definitely worth the risk for me, it also makes it really enjoyable to overcome the obstacles, and oh man when you win it feels good.
 
G

Gucci Messiah

Banned
Boney said:
I did reply but I quoted it wrong and erased the first [ so it was kinda hidden in a bunch of text.
Sorry for the ditz

I would now but I've aged for a really long while now and need some rest.

You add friends in the home menu, there's an icon for friends.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks!

jorgejjvr said:
I'm currently at work but I would love to play you when I get a chance, my ID is my username. Sorry no one responded to you in all the conversations going on. Anyways, congrats on getting smash and I'm guessing a wii u lol, it's a great game. This might be cheesy but practice and learning from your opponent is one of the best advice I can give you. As far as air dodges you can try to move in and make it seem like you are going to hit they will air Dodge and THEN you really make your move to punish them, trick them, play mind games. Some characters in the air can do up a, the opponent could Dodge but then you can do side A right after and still punish them. For tilts I recommend going to the controller settings and undoing UP for jumping, like that you will be able to jump with Y and now when you press Up and A whenever it will always be a tilt, or smash if you hold it
Click to expand...

Great advice, especially turning tap jump off! We should play when you're off.

Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
From the Wii U menu, there will be an orange smiley face on the bottom of the screen (where all the apps are.) That's the friend list. From there, simply "Add Friend" and type in the NNID you wish to add. Then wait for that person to accept your request, and you're done!
:(
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Vena said:
For people like me who are stuck at work and or stuff, there's a small tournie on EMG that's been pretty decent.



Bet you can't wait for the smell of fresh nerfs in the morning. :p
Click to expand...

Bet you can't wait for when they give Falco the ability to shorten side-B and cancel laser endlag on landing again. :p
 
V

Vena

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Bet you can't wait for when they give Falco the ability to shorten side-B and cancel laser endlag on landing again. :p
Click to expand...

lol

More like I can't wait to figure out how to missile cancel on Samus. :p But my problems with getting good in Sm4sh is more about being overly fast. I'll out input the input buffer, haha. This is especially bad on online play. I need to get better at self-control and restraint.
 
A

Anonymous Tipster

Member
Great games Wake! Your Yoshi is really good! It's tough to break that egg throwing defense, and that's actually the first time I've been egg-killed-- let alone twice in the same match...

Anyway, thanks for playing! Great stuff!
 
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