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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Masked Man
I said wow
Looks like we're exactly 12 hours apart! If you're available Monday morning, I'll be around tonight!
direct_quote
Member
I got baited on that last kill...
InvincibleAgent
Member
Half the cast legit terrible confirmed.
Masked Man
I said wow
Not if you use Palutena's dash attack!
Karsticles
Member
GGs. Can you give me feedback on the customs? Beats is no help. -_-
Just from those couple of matches I think the two moves are only a bit useful.
The fireball seems like a good move to cover the some of the ledge get up options. I think the only one I could do without getting hit would be timing a jump/double jump in the empty space between two fireballs. The standard one would probably cover that hole though, but that can run out. On stage though I'm not sure if it's good. There's a lot of cooldown before you can act again once you stop spitting them out. I think a lot of characters would be able to close the gap before Bowser could do another move.
I don't know if Turbulent Bomb is worth going for over the regular one. It was pretty good at pushing me away when I tried to jump and bomb throw since it pushed the bomb too, but I don't think it was very threatening beyond that. : x
direct_quote
Member
Ggs, I honestly don't know what's better. It seems you give up options with each choice and nothing stands out. But that one flame burst seemed good at zoning, but other projectiles go right through it (and for faster characters would be not so good).... And that version of ground pound you seem to lose your kill potential, unless you can find a way to knock back people trying to get back stage. But obviously safer... The claw swipe seems good but you give up your command grab right? Probably most of his customs will be matchup dependent, but I think that flame burst one was good for Robin, but I might have been adjusting to it..
I don't get why you think his kill moves are that unsafe. If you play someone like Palutena or Robin where if you whiff a Smash the opponent has all day to punish you. Yoshi has one of the best spikes in the game too.. I see his flaws mostly being his recovery isn't great and his grab has lots of recovery.
Giving up the grab might be best. Bowser dies first to a suicide now on most stages and sometimes your opponent can have more control over the Bowser Bomb even if they have more damage. Meaning they can force you to lose even if you were winning. It happened to a Bowser player on Smashboards.
It's not that fire shot is amazing against Dedede, just that it's a legitimate tool to use against him, one that's likely to give him pause before using a gordo at midrange, and make him the likelier character to have to approach. I got a little spammy with it after realizing it reflected your gordos, obviously shooting out more than one or two fireballs is going to get me punished. I've fought the best local Dedede player (ranked within the top 10 in the region until this month) a few times, and Bowser's normal b neutral, flame breath, is garbage against Dedede in the neutral game. If you just tap b you'll do maybe 4-5% with it and it wasn't worth the risk of using. If you try to get 15% damage and catch DDD in the face with it, you'll be catching a gordo (beats flame breath) before Bowser's end animation finishes, leaving you basically where you started.
Dropping Ganondorf? What happened there?
Yeah, I came across this video just now that should help. See the description too. I think it's time for me to get good at ledge trumping. I've never been consistent at it. I'm going to try the method the guy uses in the video and see if I can get it reliably. I'd be interested if a short hopped dair would be able to spike someone without ledge invincibility (Edit: totally works, but Bowser has be very close to the edge. Doesn't have to be in the "off balance" animation though)(2nd edit: if you just get up normally, you're perfectly spaced to spike with short hop dair if they regrab)(3rd edit: wait, I think I was wrong, now I can't land the spike after getup... hmm)(4th edit: ok, you get up, immediately short hop dair while holding towards the edge to get the spike. Hopefully that's figured out now), but I'm thinking about ledge trumping mostly with the idea of following up with a nair or bair.
I was using turbulent bomb a bit earlier. An opponent with matchup experience knows not to shield under a Bowser bomb, which is good cause turbulent bomb is incredibly unsafe if they do... The problem I have with using it to punish projectiles is, you're making a prediction when you use it that your opponent isn't about to jump after throwing their bomb/whatever. If they do you'll catch an aerial since Bowser is completely open to attack during the jump animation. Personally I'm more interested in timing turbulent bomb so as to gimp recoveries with the windbox, especially with characters that often go above the ledge before snapping to the ledge - Luigi, Shulk, other Bowsers, Toon Link etc. I'm unclear how much the windbox effects things below it, I had cases where it did nothing when I landed on a platform, and cases where it slid people away.
Karsticles
Member
Eh. Around CO, no one lets you use customs. Dorf is a pain to play without customs, so I am going back to Bowser. I got second place at that tournament after not using him for almost a month, so I should practice and see how well I do with him. Plus, I started getting annoyed by some of Dorf's shortcomings as well. Lastly, I am probably swapping to Mewtwo eventually, so why learn Dorf?
I also have some vicious new ways of playing Bowser that destroy a lot of people. The windbox is good below it. Go to Luigi's Mansion, hop on a mini platform on the bottom level, and it will hit on ground level. The weak shield break is killer. I would use it if not for that, but I think I am sticking with default. Here is my Smashboards post:
Yeah, after more testing Turbulent Bomb isn't as good as I thought. The big issue is that it has weaker shield damage, so it is easy to defend if you use it aggressively. As a gimping tool, it just has way too much startup to be useful. That is a shame. If it broke shields, I would consider using it over default.
I think Dash Slash is overrated, personally. It can be shield thrown even when done properly, and it never seems to pay off against projectile characters because the windup is so big. Plus, it is highly telegraphed when used improperly. I also think it is a great kill move in situations where Bowser Bomb is unreliable (spacing issues).
But Fireball? I am quite interested in it. My biggest issue with Bowser is that he has trouble just out of jab range against turtles. Nothing he has is safe, and Fire Breath has to recharge if you use it in the neutral. Plus, with customs on, Bowser gets seriously ****ed by some characters with customs that put stuff on the ground, like Villager. Fireball gives Bowser something to do from long range. It is also super hard to spot dodge - level 9 AI fails at it a lot. This also lets Bowser stay midscreen, which IMO is preferable to chasing people to the ledge, where Bowser can potentially be back thrown and gimped.
Basically, the move breaks standstills, and it also helps against other footsie characters by making them approach you. I only used it against Toon Link, WFT, and Robin so far, but I am appreciating it. It is especially nice for Robin, since you can fire it through Arcfire to keep her from charging tomes. You do a lot of damage trading, since the recovery is awful, but that is in Bowser's favor.
I would like to hear more people's experiences on this. If someone wants to provide video footage selling me on Dash Slash, I am willing to look at it as well.
direct_quote
Member
I could understand dropping Ganon. He seems to do well against some people in low to mid-tier, but I'm sure against the upper tiers you'd have to make reads up the ass to gain any traction.
In for glory mode I'm already missing Palutena's customs
Also, if anyone wants to do a quick set right now I'm game, nnid:direct_quote
In for glory mode I'm already missing Palutena's customs
Also, if anyone wants to do a quick set right now I'm game, nnid:direct_quote
I could understand dropping Ganon. He seems to do well against some people in low to mid-tier, but I'm sure against the upper tiers you'd have to make reads up the ass to gain any traction.
In for glory mode I'm already missing Palutena's customs
Also, if anyone wants to do a quick set right now I'm game, nnid:direct_quote
I'm up for it if you are.
direct_quote
Member
Ok sounds good I'll host a game.
Anonymous Tipster
Member
Thoughts on doing ranbats?
Ha let me nurse my wounds for the moment. We can do some friendlies if you like depending on if you're around after my matches with direct_quote...
Uh, on that note, direct_quote my Wii U just froze... let me restart it... Let's do customs.
Anonymous Tipster
Member
It's cool man, completely understandable.
Edit: Actually I'm gonna turn in for the night!
SimpleGamer
Member
I know what bouncing fish is but what is floppy fish?
direct_quote
Member
Ok i got to go to bed Cronox ggs. You're the only jigglepuff on GAF i've faced..
GGs. A few amusing moments in there. I'm certain that the fire shot custom and windbox bomb can be useful but in straining to use them I often get punished. They're just not naturally integrated into my playstyle. Landed a good couple rests, SD'd a few times, spent a lot of time hanging on the ledge, and found myself playing very predictably at times unfortunately. Does Lucina have the equivalent of Marth's custom neutral b? I can't believe how many times I fell for your short hopped armor breaker/piercer/whatever it's called. Lots of facepalming from me, but I'm not that great at adapting on the fly. For me it's more like 10 matches of making the same mistake, take a break and the next day I won't fall for it, but that's not quite fast enough...
Had much more fun playing against your Lucina than your Robin from last time, but that's cause I like getting in and brawling, not playing projectile games.
I would consider Jiggs my secondary, mostly for fun. I'm happy to play you with him again another time. It's funny how with momentum behind Jiggs you can really toss people around. Dealing with people with swords is actually not a great matchup for puff, makes the spacing game all the harder.
He probably meant bouncing fish.
For anyone that doesn't know, Nairo has demonstrations of every character's custom moves HERE. Worth spending the 1 minute per character to familiarize yourself with what you could be dealing with.
direct_quote
Member
I don't know I haven't gotten all her customs, but all the other ones I have are the same as Marth's so I'm assuming she has that neutral b move you had equipped. It's a shame she didn't get a little more variety in customs.. Also it's really a pain getting those last 3-4 customs, because I swear all I get is the same ones..
Yeah I left my Wii U going for probably 30+ hours total using the turbo controller Ganondorf farming method and unlocked every custom for the characters I'm interested in, I sympathize for anyone who isn't able to automate the task :/
Never heard of this, got a link to a full discription or video?
Here. I posted about its success earlier in the thread, Captain Rage Quit posted it originally. See the links at the bottom of the main post also - basically, you can set priority towards a certain character's customs by using that character in a mode for a moment. I use a 1 stock smash, then use the method as detailed. Requires a turbo controller and a rubber band or something to keep it the a button down. When I was using it, I'd check every 4 hours or so and see if I'd unlocked everything for the character I'd prioritized. If so, I'd prioritize the next one I wanted. Have full customs for Marth, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Samus, Little Mac, Toon Link, Lucario, DK and nearly complete for a couple others this way. Added around 100 custom moves to my total unlocked.
On a side note, doing a ledge trump from on stage is hard! After spending maybe 25 minutes on it I was still inconsistent, and trying to catch a recovering character in training mode is very difficult. Nevertheless, the pros are doing this all the time so I'll keep working on it. The computer characters are just the most useless dicks in this game. They don't recover like any sane player ever would, it's difficult to play ledge trump games around a CPU character that will use their up b above the stage. Add the stupid frame perfect airdodges and counters when in the single player modes and they can all go to hell. I'm just glad that farming method came to my attention so I don't have to sanction their stupidity by playing against them for unlocks.
InvincibleAgent
Member
Eek. Just shows me how many I'm still missing. There are some I'd like for all 4 of my "mains" eh...
I don't have a turbo controller T_T, thanks anyway.
InvincibleAgent
Member
I don't have one either but I just got the moves I wanted by "prioritizing" the characters I wanted, and then manually mashing the custom A button while I listened to music. If a given round has no wrench target, feel free to press B and reset.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
That method only seems more efficient if automated. You can get 2-4 wrenches in 2 and a half minutes in Trophy Rush.
Samus OP.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Part of that was because it's Lylat Cruise Omega, so Diddy wasn't gonna ride up to the ledge.
BRB learning Samus
I can
You hosting or do you want me to?
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Anyone know when WHOBO is? Can't find anything about it!
There wind boxes of death!
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I haven't seen anything regarding WHOBO thia year, so I can only guess they haven't announced anything yet. I'm assuming you're in or near Texas, so you should check Smashboards for other tourneys in your area in the meanwhile.
World Hobo Organization for the Betterment of Olfaction, basically they give out free showers. Great guys, not sure if I would want to go to one of their events though.
Oh damn you left at the most humiliating win lol.
I did find out that out of short hop air dodge you can neutral air, back air and (reverse) charge shot. That's pretty nifty!
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Lmao, you guys.
Let me guess: you took custom DK to Battlefield.
We all have to learn the hard way, I suppose.
I got hit by far too many of those charge shots today. Them reverse charge shots are too sneaky.
Lmao, you guys.
Let me guess: you took custom DK to Battlefield.
We all have to learn the hard way, I suppose.
Custom DK+Battlefield=LOL
Lmao, you guys.
Let me guess: you took custom DK to Battlefield.
We all have to learn the hard way, I suppose.
Lmao most of out fights were there. But I think stages like delfino or halberd with soft ground level are the worst.
It's just that damn DK won't die, lol had to get hit to an average of 170% with the maximum being 250%
I agree here. Yoshi has amazing kill moves. Usmash is super fast and can beat many aerials (I think it has some invincibility actuall). Fsmash kills fairly early, although it has more recovery. In the air you can easily kill with Uair that has like 0 ending lag or Fair that can autocancel. It's not one of the best spikes of the game though IMO since it has enough start up to be dodged.
Yoshi's weaknesses, IMO, are his awful roll (I think it's actually the worst in the game), a somewhat weak shield and his terrible grab. Seriously, Yoshi's grab has quite a bit of start up and lots of ending lag. I almost never use it unless people are really spamming shields and, in that case, neutral B is better. Only use of Yoshi's grab is trying to bait an Uair or Usmash. His recovery can be gimped by some characters too, but that isn't as common. Pikachu for example is a pain in the ass since if one of his silly thunder things hits you when you're about to grab the ledge, then you're done.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Houston!