Anonymous Tipster
Member
Great games TWILT!
Clash of the secondaries, haha. Still, pretty intense games all around!
Clash of the secondaries, haha. Still, pretty intense games all around!
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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
SoldnerKei
Member
welp, didn't know Falco had Ness' back throw P:
it's payback time!
it's payback time!
direct_quote
Member
I don't know if I can play Palutena on for glory anymore, getting too used to explosive flame and super speed...
It's true that Palutena becomes much better with customs (especially vs Bowser), but she has a lot of unsafe moves that can be easily punished (all her smashes and tilts, except d-tilt), and is highly reliant on grabs for punishes. I think explosive flame is a big risk to use, but I do enjoy that it's unblockable... Super speed is obviously one of her best customs... But overall I'd say the matchup is pretty heavily in her favor.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I fucking wish he had Ness' back throw lol.
wtf was that fire bird
wtf was that recovery
wtf
Masked Man
I said wow
EDIT: DQ, Kars, and other Palutena mains: wanna contribute to our discussion of the Falco-Palu matchup here? We'd appreciate it.
I honestly don't have a lot of experience with the matchup, so I probably can't make any truly meaningful contribution, but I'm hesitant to suggest that Fair is as almighty as that one poster suggested. Yes, it's pretty fast; yes, it has no landing lag; yes, it's a good spacing tool. Its priority is just average, though, so Falco could easily hit us out of it.
We have some pretty powerful punishment options, but they're all on the slow side and rather laggy to boot. We're faster than Falco, but he has a wider range of hard-hitting options that come out faster (e.g. Bair, especially OoS). Intercepting a Falco Phantasm with our Usmash is quite satisfying, though!
Overall, Fox is a nasty (near-impossible) matchup for Palutena, but Falco feels more manageable. Not sure if it's in either's favor, per se; I'm tempted to say it's even.
SoldnerKei
Member
indeed wtf...
lol, hands off that ledge flaco
lol, hands off that ledge flaco
direct_quote
Member
So any takers on some games before I go to bed? :<
SoldnerKei
Member
man falco now is actually fun to play against, all those years of getting CG into oblivion, now at least it feels fair whenever I lose lol
I am having a lot of fun CRQ
I am having a lot of fun CRQ
Anonymous Tipster
Member
Sure lets do a few
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Link's tilts kill at stupid low percents it's ridiculous
Like I wish my dsmash killed at 120% :O
SoldnerKei
Member
yeah, ftilt not only has hella good range it also has kill power, also I lol'd after that last first stock, it looked like you just walked, grabed me and punched me in the face for that gimp lol
last one CRQ
Yeah. Playing g&w against him is awful. I can basically never dodge roll because one fsmash will kill me at like 65
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Dang, it really feels like my options are super limited by Link throwing shit out. I need practice with this matchup.
GGs Kei, you were good to my bird for this set. Maybe next time I'll stop jumping off ledges into pits for no reason. >.>;;;;
SoldnerKei
Member
Dang, it really feels like my options are super limited by Link throwing shit out. I need practice with this matchup.
GGs Kei, you were good to my bird for this set. Maybe next time I'll stop jumping off ledges into pits for no reason. >.>;;;;
well, you got me pretty scared with that last one xD
and yeah, I learned a bit against falco too, stage control seems to be pretty important against him, not like lazers are as annoying as brawl but still shuts off some of my approaches, but still I can get combo'ed fast, most matches were me having like 90% on the first 30 secs already lol good thing Link is fat
great games CRQ, keep giving some love to the blue bird :'D
TruSpindash
Member
Got 9th place tonight at my local weeklies tonight. Best I've ever done, really happy to finally be able to run Custom Palutena in tournament save for a match where I went default to deal with a Villager. Even so I feel Like I'm not playing the Character as good as she can be. Lots of whiffed grabs leading to punishes, and Super Speed SDs.
Let me say, I've almost never played Little Mac, I don't know what moves are best at which times, but I was able to beat you with him a few times and if I'd continued with him I think I would have won more matches overall. It has very little to do with my mastery of the character, and more to do with the tool set. Little Mac can chase down on stage and punish where Bowser cannot, and has something to do in the air that out-prioritizes Palutena (the counter). This leads into my problem when it comes to customs. There are already matchups that are 70:30 against Bowser, customs adds a number of new ones and pretty much demands the Bowser player have another character ready as a counterpick. I have no such character, nor will I.
I don't know why I put so much effort into this game. I went back and looked at the video of me vs Zex (Sheik player) from the tournament I went to a couple weeks ago. In one of his combos he hit me three times while I was helpless just above the ground. Short hopped fair fast-falled into another... 3 times. In the middle of a much longer combo string. I tried to replicate this myself and I straight-up can't do it. I have to set the game speed to 1/2 in training mode and I'm still likely to mess it up. That's the level of control a top player has, in the middle of a tournament. I'm not that guy. I'm not going to go live in Sky Williams' house to become that guy.
Johns johns johns... After I go to the local tournament again on Thursday I think I'm going to take a short break from this game. I'll be back before ranbats are jeopardized.
Masked Man
I said wow
Aw, congrats! Glad to see people repping our goddess. :3 Inadvertent dash grabs are always the most irritating because they leave Palu wide open for punishment. If I'm recovering from far offstage, I tend to favor saving my double-jump until after I SS since she drops so quickly as she glides forward. It's situational, of course, but that seems to work more consistently for me.
direct_quote
Member
Ggs Tipster as usual, always fun to play you. I'm dissapointed in your Robin because
. At least I took some games off you this time....
You don't pick the superior Red Robin
Anonymous Tipster
Member
Great games DQ! Lots of different characters that I'm not sure I've played against you with much!
The spacing wars in Zelda vs Lucina was exhausting as hell.
Edit: I didn't pick it because I know you do. It's a show of respect! ;P
The spacing wars in Zelda vs Lucina was exhausting as hell.
Edit: I didn't pick it because I know you do. It's a show of respect! ;P
Plus it's the worst color...
direct_quote
Member
How dare you mock Red Robin... Yah that was fun space wars, but when I always KO'd you first (a rarity) you would always go into beast mode and lose like only 8 percent (sigh).... Probably exhausting having to out space a sword character I know, but at least I was having fun or something...
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
D-do you not have fun with me and my space animals and Italians, Quote-kun? ;__;
direct_quote
Member
I don't know about space animals, but Italian gives me heart burn
/dad joke
That's good to hear other Palutenas being successful. Yah whiffing grabs with Palutena is the bane of my existence.. I've almost gotten to used to her customs that I don't want to back to default...even when you need a reflect. What projectile are you using?
Masked Man
I said wow
Since you probably have more experience than I, how do you feel about Palu vs. projectile-heavy/campy characters when you aren't running Reflect?
What about Meta Knight?
Karsticles
Member
You know, we both play the heaviest character in the game. A character of the grappler archetype. Patience and reads are the name of our game. Customs might force us to be a little more patient, but that is all that changes.
I don't think we have any 3-7 matchups. I have never felt entirely shafted as Bowser. Any character, and I feel entirely able to take him or her out with good reads. The good reads part can be frustrating, but that is how Bowser is designed. If you hate having to make good reads, this game has a solid selection of characters with safe and aggressive neutral games.
Palutena with customs just means you need to be more mindful of your spacing and options. Super Speed is probably the best move in the game, and you need to go in hard whenever it is on cool down. It does need space to be effective, so if you stay on top of Palutena, it isn't much of a factor.
One character archetype that Smash has a lot of is characters that benefit from time to themselves. Activated specials on timers, specials that charge for later use, and cyclable moves are all factors here. If you give these characters space, you are hurting yourself. These matchups are Bowser's hardest, because he is not good at applying safe pressure. It just isn't his game. Against these characters, Bowser has to take more risks than he otherwise would, because he needs to pressure these characters, but doesn't have great tools to stay on them consistently.
It is healthy to recognize the limitations of your character, and what he struggles with. Customs can make your more frustrating matchups worse, but that is to be expected. Everyone gets better with customs. Some get better than others. Palutena is honestly not even in my top 5 most frustrating matchups for Bowser. If you want, save a replay next time and we can analyze your match together. Also, Super Speed has a startup time that is not insignificant. You should be able to consistently react to it.
Is this your first time playing a fighting game seriously?
Edit: here is a matchup that becomes significantly more difficult with customs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noZgIAU8pXI
It's likely due to bad DI. Are you DI'ing away from Sheik or towards the stage?
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
direct_quote
Member
I haven't experimented too much without reflect versus projectile heavy characters. But I'd probably use reflect against link still b/c fuck link
. But super speed allows you to close the distance pretty well (and if you do your shield dash attack it nullifies projectiles so like a projectile counter )... I wish we could have both.TruSpindash
Member
Thanks! And yeah, might end up doing something similar if it means less Super Speed SDs.
Been running Explosive Flame. Finding it useful for catching rolls, tech chases and occasionally edgeguarding. But I've had some issues with people rushing though it and punishing, but that was an issue I had with Autoreticle as well. All the same just got to better at spacing it properly.
Professor Beef
Banned
Artsy Omni just Smashified Shovel Knight. He's the guy responsible for the fake Rayman leak from a while back.
Karsticles
Member
You have to admit, it's a pretty fair compromise. ;-)
Professor Beef
Banned
Let it do 1% to Villager and 10% to the opponent. Even more fair trade.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Anyone from bracket 2 wants to play our matches? I haven't played in a few weeks and the TV I have acces to now has terrible input lag but I need to get my first match out of the way
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Bowser tip of the day. If you do a short hop Air Klaw(non custom) and expect them to roll out of the way you can immediately do a turn around grab and get em everytime because no land lag.
Was doing this consistently the other day when a friend came over and wanted to play me local.
Made Bowser much faster then he is supposed to be.
Guy I played is usually pretty competent and understands some game fundamentals but I think me playing Bowser a lot has given a lot of experience on how the game plays.
I was getting some good hard reads so against this player I was able to condition him the way I wanted him to play.
Was doing this consistently the other day when a friend came over and wanted to play me local.
Made Bowser much faster then he is supposed to be.
Guy I played is usually pretty competent and understands some game fundamentals but I think me playing Bowser a lot has given a lot of experience on how the game plays.
I was getting some good hard reads so against this player I was able to condition him the way I wanted him to play.
Which custom is this specifically?
I'm "sick" too... ie playing Monster Hunter far too much.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yeah I really can't stop playing MH4U. The game is just too good. Haven't even started Majora's Mask 3D.
That just means you're too boring.
Professor Beef
Banned
That, plus the controls and camera are why I don't like it.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
You haven't fought Yian Garuga.
Does the fight make the combat less clunky and sluggish? Can't play a combat based game if it's slow, same reason I don't like the Souls series.
Platinum games are my saviors for this reason.
Change weapons. Use Duals or S&S, and have at it, but if even if that is too slow then the game is just too meticulous for your liking which is fine.
Karsticles
Member
That's fine with me, I just care about the tripping aspect.
Cool thought. I've been using Klaw to reverse my aerial position while recovering.
It was talked about by ZeRo in the video Karsticles posted a few posts above mine. Basically the sprout villager plants does damage (not sure how much) and trips the opponent, it stays immobile but the opponent has no way of manipulating it. You can't even roll through it so it buffs villager's control space considerably. It stays like 15-20 seconds as well so it's fairly long and doesn't take long to plant. The only downside is that when you water the tree it has a lot less hp so it'll die easily, but there's little reason to opt for a tree when you have a killer sprout on the lose. I guess you also lose consistent axe use but lol who cares.
It'd be like Snake not being able to trigger his explosives and they don't do damage to him either. Just nuts. Zero also mentioned how "there's talks" into banning certain custom moves but it's just someone mentioning how op it is.
Also mon Hun is Amazing, but no money to buy it
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
It feels clunky and sluggish because all your actions are supposed to have some real weight behind it. Thus, you have to pick and choose which attacks to use and learn to roll-cancel animations to keep out of harm's way, along with keeping your weapon sheathed to stay mobile. It's why I like it, MonHun feels like I'm dueling the monsters to see who's carcass services the other.
Souls is some lame ass shit though, feels like I'm wielding rocks fighting skeletons and shit I can't get into it. Shouldn't have started as a knight, lol.
Also while thinking about how I play Smash I just learned that Melee Falco is my dude, and I sorely miss those lasers that poke without dat endlag. D: Oh well, Fox with Blaster 2 to the rescue.
I see.
I do imagine that some customs will simply be on the higher tier than others but the question becomes how much that affects the base character and if it makes them "broken". I don't know if this will make the villager OP or, simply, more difficult to manage for certain characters.
I guess I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with it in a match, largely due to most of my play time going to MonHun/GW2 at the moment lol.
And then, G-Rank Rathalos combos you into death from one mis-managed attack (flight stun -> swoop toxic -> fire breath). Fuck you too Rathalos.