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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog

B

Boney

Banned
You should be countering those charge shots whenever I'm punishing your landings. Although I realize it's a little laggy and its gonna be extra hard, it's your best bet
 
T

The Adder

Banned
Boney said:
You should be countering those charge shots whenever I'm punishing your landings. Although I realize it's a little laggy and its gonna be extra hard, it's your best bet
Click to expand...

GGs.

Ugh, I still can't beat a good Samus to save my life. Not that lacking that inequity would have won me any games against you anyways, given I couldn't beat your Marth either, but yeah, I've got no idea how to go about fighting against a Samus that knows what they're doing.

I was trying to air dodge them, not sure how much help counter would be as it would either launch me back off the stage or towards you while defenseless.

The Marth matches were better, at least.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Blackquill said:
I thought about that but at some point it became too predictable and besides, Ike's counter is slooooooooooow, it caught my opponent off guard once but way too slow to be a reliable solution



Sounds great, I already try to do a lot of aerial move but I don't know when I should use them. But how do you use Bair while advancing ?
Click to expand...
Ike's aerials really are really good. Neutral air covers a lot of ground below you, you can use it when you think someone's gonna roll towards you, you can use it to attack his shield because it has little landing lag (it's not completely safe so try to space it out.) and you can jump over them as you hit them landing on the other side. It's a great move that can be used to put enemies on bad positions.
Forward air has insane reach both horizontally and vertically, if you space it out correctly you can use it as as a wall and to harrass them pretty safely. You need to short hop and get them out. You'll be alternating between nair and fair to change the rhythm.

To do back airs you need to reverse them. In order to do that, you need run in a direction, then push the other way so that characters slides the other way and then immediately jump and press the original direction. That way the character turns around but keeps the momentum from the run. Back air is super fast and hits really strong, it's a very good room but it has mediocre reach so watch out for that. You gotta do it really fast but it's easy once you're used to doing it. You can jump behind an opponent and doing it, it can work. You can do this reverse in order to edge guard with back aerials for all characters if it's a favorable attack.

Also, air dodging short hops need to be done right away in order to land with no landing lag so you can follow up with jabs or grabs because they're fast enough to catch opponents off guard.

The Adder said:
GGs.

Ugh, I still can't beat a good Samus to save my life. Not that lacking that inequity would have won me any games against you anyways, given I couldn't beat your Marth either, but yeah, I've got no idea how to go about fighting against a Samus that knows what they're doing.

I was trying to air dodge them, not sure how much help counter would be as it would either launch me back off the stage or towards you while defenseless.

The Marth matches were better, at least.
Click to expand...
Air dodging is exactly what I want you to do because that's gonna make you land and get hit by the charge shots. The best standard option is to land as fast as you can and just shield it. Not sure about the end lag of lucario's counter but it can save you in case you aren't gonna hit the floor in time. Other characters that can do more air jumps, or stall in the air can also fake me out.

What you want to do against samus in order to clear the gap is to go from the air and landing to close distance. You want to be careful when you use your second jump because that leaves you in a helpless state and don't over commit on the approach. Never roll against the projectiles spam, it's very predictable and dangerous. In fact you're rolling way too much as well to move towards one end of the stage to another both on offense and defense.

And not to deflate your spirits or anything but I've barely touched Marth, did 4 fights before we fought and I must've used him less than 15 times in total as well. I suck bad with him, but I'd love to be good with him though. Got motivated cause I saw a good player last night
 
K

Karsticles

Member
FSLink said:
GGs Karst. Sorry, got to go to work, otherwise I'd play more. Your Bowser is great as usual.
Click to expand...
GGs. First time playing against Diddy Kong so it was a learning experience. He doesn't seem unmanageable, though. I really liked the variety of custom setups you had going.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Karsticles said:
GGs. First time playing against Diddy Kong so it was a learning experience. He doesn't seem unmanageable, though. I really liked the variety of custom setups you had going.
Click to expand...

I think Diddy Kong beats Bowser easily without customs but the Dash Claw helps him tons and makes it feel more even. Not sure if Battering Banana is better in the matchup or not, since I'm more familiar with the setups you can get off of default.
And thanks. Was trying some new ones out, like I use Ness's Lucas PK Thunder quite a bit but haven't tried it against heavy weights.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
I might be able to play some matches if anyone wants to try. We can always do lag test matches before to make sure things aren't too bad.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Matches, anyone?

JulianImp said:
I might be able to play some matches if anyone wants to try. We can always do lag test matches before to make sure things aren't too bad.
Click to expand...
I have a room up.

FSLink said:
I think Diddy Kong beats Bowser easily without customs but the Dash Claw helps him tons and makes it feel more even. Not sure if Battering Banana is better in the matchup or not, since I'm more familiar with the setups you can get off of default.
And thanks. Was trying some new ones out, like I use Ness's Lucas PK Thunder quite a bit but haven't tried it against heavy weights.
Click to expand...
I definitely think Lasting PK Thunder is an improvement. Bowser can attack and destroy the default one, but not Lasting. Very hard to deal with.

I am still iffy on Dash Klaw. So many missed punishes...
 
N

Nabster92

Member
GG's Flux. Got really close there. Starting to not be a fan of this game deciding stage business with that set. That was like 6/9 games on FD.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
I want to play.

Nabster92 said:
GG's Flux. Got really close there. Starting to not be a fan of this game deciding stage business with that set. That was like 6/9 games on FD.
Click to expand...
Anything else seems too cumbersome, but I did have an idea from a tournament I played at:

If you win on a stage, you may not pick it again. The loser can, but not the winner. All FD stages would be equivalent for these purposes.

Thoughts?
 
B

Boney

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
GGs, Nabster. That was a close set, 4-5.
Click to expand...
Wow, must've been some hella of a matches

Karsticles said:
I want to play.


Anything else seems too cumbersome, but I did have an idea from a tournament I played at:

If you win on a stage, you may not pick it again. The loser can, but not the winner. All FD stages would be equivalent for these purposes.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That's not a bad idea actually; but it might force stages like lylat or halberd in some instances
 
B

Boney

Banned
JulianImp said:
Alright, let me add you real quick since it seems I still haven't done so. My NNID's JulianImp.

What rules will we use for stages, customs, stocks, time and all that? I still haven't experimented that much with customs, though.
Click to expand...
we go by the standard evo rules here, customs on, 2 stocks, 5 minutes (or is it 6?) and all the legal stages are available
 
K

Karsticles

Member
JulianImp said:
Alright, let me add you real quick since it seems I still haven't done so. My NNID's JulianImp.

What rules will we use for stages, customs, stocks, time and all that? I still haven't experimented that much with customs, though.
Click to expand...
Typical neutral stages, 2 stock 5 min, customs on.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Boney said:
Wow, must've been some hella of a matches
Click to expand...

Had to leave for 10 minutes during the set, which broke the momentum but, yeah, they were alright. Started to understand how Rosalina works a bit after getting pummeled at the start, and then eventually adapted so that the matches actually got contentious.

Only have 1 point in bracket 1 for now, though. I'm anticipating my matches with the other two I need to fight.
 
D

DooD1234

Member
So I'm watching KTAR stream and saw Dabuz custom Rosalina. Wow total destruction against this Thinderstorm guy and Luma warp makes her even more like a puppet character. Also that star bit custom I can see will make it frustrating as Rosalina is already a tough wall to break her defense with Luma by her side.
 
N

Nabster92

Member
Karsticles said:
I want to play.


Anything else seems too cumbersome, but I did have an idea from a tournament I played at:

If you win on a stage, you may not pick it again. The loser can, but not the winner. All FD stages would be equivalent for these purposes.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I don't think that works as well for ranbats due to the number of matches that need to be played. Even if you won 5 straight, you'd be forced to pick 5 different stages each time and possibly have to pick a stage that neither person actually wants to play on.

Unless you mean just for the next match you can't pick the one you just won on in the previous game. That seems reasonable to me.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Anyone want to play?

JulianImp said:
Man, I got demolished. Still, is the lag bearable for you?
Click to expand...
Far beyond bearable. Are you wired?

Nabster92 said:
I don't think that works as well for ranbats due to the number of matches that need to be played. Even if you won 5 straight, you'd be forced to pick 5 different stages each time and possibly have to pick a stage that neither person actually wants to play on.

Unless you mean just for the next match you can't pick the one you just won on in the previous game. That seems reasonable to me.
Click to expand...
Hmm, that could work. Then you at least force some extra variety.
 
A

Anonymous Tipster

Member
Edit: Whoops, sorry Karst, turns out I actually can't right this second.

Buddy of mine just got here.

We'll be on Smash later, maybe I'll enlist two people for teams later on.

Sorry again Karst!
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Karsticles said:
If you fast fall the fair right away, you are right, it lags. If you fast fall the last 10 frames of your fall or so, it lands and still autocancels. The timing is tricky, but it works.

We should try doubles with your Jiggs sometime.
Click to expand...

I tried this in training yesterday, but even at 1/4 speed I couldn't tell much of a difference. Like you say, it's possible near the end of the fall, but it gives such a small frame advantage (3 or so?) that I can't really see myself working on it. Fair followups with something like dtilt are only possible at very low percentages, and if my fair gets shielded I don't think the extra few frames are going to stop me from getting grabbed.

Karsticles said:
Cronoc, I dont think the full hop air dodge tech on battlefield actually works like that poster thinks. It isn't cancelling anything, you just recover and can do a move.

I spent the last hour practicing playing Bowser with no A moves so I can do better against Blackmage.
Click to expand...

I spent some time trying to do the full hop air dodge cancel on battlefield platforms too, the timing was very hard and I never figured out exactly when the best time to airdodge was after liftoff. Trying to go into an up-b would nearly always give me the aerial version of the move even it if seemed like Bowser was on the ground. I think you're right that it's moreso that the air dodge finishes completely in the air and Bowser lands normally than a real canceled action. Indistinguishable from that, anyway.

I'm up to play at the moment, looking to get stomped and question my self-worth. Anyone around that can do that?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Cronox said:
I tried this in training yesterday, but even at 1/4 speed I couldn't tell much of a difference. Like you say, it's possible near the end of the fall, but it gives such a small frame advantage (3 or so?) that I can't really see myself working on it. Fair followups with something like dtilt are only possible at very low percentages, and if my fair gets shielded I don't think the extra few frames are going to stop me from getting grabbed.



I spent some time trying to do the full hop air dodge cancel on battlefield platforms too, the timing was very hard and I never figured out exactly when the best time to airdodge was after liftoff. Trying to go into an up-b would nearly always give me the aerial version of the move even it if seemed like Bowser was on the ground. I think you're right that it's moreso that the air dodge finishes completely in the air and Bowser lands normally than a real canceled action. Indistinguishable from that, anyway.

I'm up to play at the moment, looking to get stomped and question my self-worth. Anyone around that can do that?
Click to expand...
I want to do doubles with your Jiggs.
 
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