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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog

I

InvincibleAgent

Member
FSLink said:
$4/$5 isn't cheap enough? It's priced pretty appropriately in comparison to competition.

I would love to pay around $8-10 for a character + stage though.
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I'm used to ~4 maps for $10 from Halo games. IMO, a map is more interesting DLC than a character I'm ambivalent about.

Karsticles said:
Your expectations are unrealistic.
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Says the guy who plans to main Mewtwo.

We live in an era where everything costs too much. One game with 49 characters cost $50, and now one character costs $4? My biggest problem is that they are punishing people who bought both versions by charging them more. Don't tell me about the code registering program, I already did it. It's just silly that they would charge more for both versions regardless.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Price is what one is willing to pay. If he feels it's too much it's too much even if you think it's fair. The difference is at the end of the day you'll have the character because you think it's good value whereas he may not because he does not.

Also when you compare it to MK8's ridiculously good value the SSB model does feel like more of a rip, especially the Mii costumes. Why does Majora's Mask on its own cost the same as the hat AND outfit bundles?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
MagiusNecros said:
That Bowser jumps too much. Please don't do that.
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Especially against Kirby - you're not going to beat him in the air. It's like fighting Jigglypuff in the air. Those characters are designed for aerial superiority. I think the greatest moment of irritation for me was when he ate 2 dairs in a row without Fortress punishing. Where was his head? That's all I think about when playing Bowser: Fortress punish, Fortress punish, Fortress punish!

InvincibleAgent said:
I'm used to ~4 maps for $10 from Halo games. IMO, a map is more interesting DLC than a character I'm ambivalent about.

Says the guy who plans to main Mewtwo.

We live in an era where everything costs too much. One game with 49 characters cost $50, and now one character costs $4? My biggest problem is that they are punishing people who bought both versions by charging them more. Don't tell me about the code registering program, I already did it. It's just silly that they would charge more for both versions regardless.
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I plan on buying all of the DLC, even though I won't play most of the characters.

Characters cost ~$250,000 to make, each. They need to account for the fact that only a fraction (maybe 50%) of the game's purchasers will buy Mewtwo. If you compare Mewtwo to any other character DLC, he is cheap. Marvel characters were $5 each, Street Fighter is $5 each, and BlazBlue is $8 each. Thus, you need to not only consider the costs of Mewtwo, but the market value of the character. He has good comparative value in the fighting game DLC economy. Plus, they're giving him away for free to 3DS/WiiU purchasers, so that is a huge cost sink.

The 3DS version is separate from the Wii U version, and it takes extra development time to bring him between games. His model, animations, and effects need tweaking to function properly on the system. It's not unreasonable to add $1 to have him on both systems.

BGBW said:
Price is what one is willing to pay. If he feels it's too much it's too much even if you think it's fair. The difference is at the end of the day you'll have the character because you think it's good value whereas he may not because he does not.

Also when you compare it to MK8's ridiculously good value the SSB model does feel like more of a rip, especially the Mii costumes. Why does Majora's Mask on its own cost the same as the hat AND outfit bundles?
Click to expand...
I didn't say he has to think it's good value. I said his expectations are unrealistic, and they are.

People are so fucking whiny these days. If it were free, people would complain that it didn't arrive sooner.
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
As a guy who loves musou games and knows how japan handles dlc over there...complaining about the smash dlc pricing is pretty pathetic in comparison. Your getting off easy when another character is easily 13 bananas. Instead of 5 bananas.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
It's a fact of life that many people who don't work in game development have no fucking clue how much money goes into certain aspects of it, especially with regards to fighting games where everyone thinks you can just copy and paste shit like every game is MvC2. I still remember the big fuss with Skullgirls, now that was a pain to read.

People expecting extra stages to go along with a character in a fighting game need to step back and get back to reality. People comparing a new character in a fighting game to maps in a shooter also need to step back.

That said, I suddenly want a Touhou rep in Smash.
 
I

InvincibleAgent

Member
Karsticles said:
Characters cost ~$250,000 to make, each. They need to account for the fact that only a fraction (maybe 50%) of the game's purchasers will buy Mewtwo.
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"Item X cost Y amount to make, therefore paying Z for it is reasonable" is not a valid argument.

Karsticles said:
If you compare Mewtwo to any other character DLC, he is cheap. Marvel characters were $5 each, Street Fighter is $5 each, and BlazBlue is $8 each. Thus, you need to not only consider the costs of Mewtwo, but the market value of the character. He has good comparative value in the fighting game DLC economy. Plus, they're giving him away for free to 3DS/WiiU purchasers, so that is a huge cost sink.
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"Company X sells for Y amount, and Company Z sells for less than that, therefore it is a good deal" is also not a valid argument.

Karsticles said:
The 3DS version is separate from the Wii U version, and it takes extra development time to bring him between games. His model, animations, and effects need tweaking to function properly on the system.
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These are some undisputed facts. Good job.

Karsticles said:
It's not unreasonable to add $1 to have him on both systems.
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Except that people who want him on both systems have already paid $250 more than people who only have one version of the game (game & console).

Karsticles said:
People are so fucking whiny these days. If it were free, people would complain that it didn't arrive sooner.
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Another invalid argument. Arriving sooner would be nice, but that complaint would be incongruous to the current topic of "I've already paid more, and now I'm expected to pay more again? Wtf?"



Agg, nevermind. I'm dealing with depression lately. Sheesh. I didn't mean to get so side-tracked into that negative conversation. My point of view is honestly probably not the clearest. *Ahem* I came back here to ask how excited people were about Lucas.

I didn't think he would actually come back. I didn't realize the Mother series was popular enough outside of the core Mother / Smash crowd. I know plenty of people here must be thrilled. That's cool.
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'd rather enjoy the game and complain about bad players not playing characters the right way instead of discussing how dlc should be priced. Not my job. It is Nintendo who has to decide. And so far I am not disappointed with any of it either.
 
P

Puruzi

Banned
I would buy character DLC at an even higher price tbh, we were straight up told that we wouldn't be getting any, and if we really weren't, we'd have to wait 5-7 years for another smash game. Now we can get more characters without waiting ages. Feels good.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Being completely honest, I'd rather buy an Ultra Smash Bros 4 one year from now with a half-dozen new characters.

Can't wait for the piecemeal DLC to pile up and make locals that much more irritating to run.

Price isn't even the issue.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
Being completely honest, I'd rather buy an Ultra Smash Bros 4 one year from now with a half-dozen new characters.

Can't wait for the piecemeal DLC to pile up and make locals that much more irritating to run.

Price isn't even the issue.
Click to expand...
Let's hope for a DLC bundle for the time being, I can imagine logistics would be annoying having to buy 2-3 separate characters on top of the game for multiple systems.

How are DLC fighters treated for other fighting games that don't have "Ultra" editions with everyone packed in?
 
R

Ryce

Member
I'm far from wealthy, but $4-5 for a new character in my favorite video game every few months is completely manageable. That's practically nothing. I also understand that publishers need to turn a profit in order to justify making the DLC in the first place, and $4-5 is probably as cheap as a character can feasibly be. That's about the industry standard for an additional character, with several games charging much more than that.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
How are DLC fighters treated for other fighting games that don't have "Ultra" editions with everyone packed in?
Click to expand...

They're usually allowed (the only times I've seen DLC characters banned are when they're exclusive to one console in a multi-plat game), but you better hope the TO bought everything on enough of the setups.

It can be really irritating for smaller tournaments that rely on community setups, because not every player wants to bother buying every character.

Then you have issues on what to do after the DLC is taken off the market for whatever reason.

I'm having to go through this pre-order / season pass song and dance for Mortal Kombat X right now and just ugh.
 
B

Boney

Banned
I'm not huge on dlc either, but smash is probably gonna be my most played game this generation by a long shot, so I'll find value in the characters
 
R

Ricky 7

Member
Boney said:
Sharing for our resident bowser mains and I don't think we have a Kirby main here?

Izaw (Kirby) vs Ixis (Bowser)
http://youtu.be/DWYdraBGfy4

Also sharing this Dedede guide which I thought was great (it's 5 parts)
http://youtu.be/EnqJZdIjGsk
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I remember playing that Bowser on the 3DS version back in October.
Beats said:
Nice video. The Chameleos theme is sort of fitting lol.
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Someone should make a combo video of Diddy Kong using the Tower Top theme because I'm sure they repeatedly say hoo haa in that song.
 
J

jnWake

Member
InvincibleAgent said:
"Item X cost Y amount to make, therefore paying Z for it is reasonable" is not a valid argument.
Click to expand...

How is it not a valid argument? Your attempt at discussion would be much more fruitful if you actually said anything with base. Cost is, obviously, one of the biggest factors when determining the price of something.
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
I would welcome any DLC for Mario Kart and Smash because I know that they are always two games that I would play A LOT. Along with most of fighting games, depend on my mood.

I think they might announce the season pass right after E3' reveals. They just announced Lucas without any prices so I think they haven't decide with anything related to season pass and prices. I meant Mewtwo HAD to be priced because it's Club Nintendo's rewards; like some fighting games' preorder characters which is excluded from season passes. I believe Goro is one of them.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
I think if the fighters came with a new stage, the $5 price a lot easier to swallow for most people. I've no issue with the price myself. They didn't skimp on content for the main game, so I don't feel like I'm being cheated and I play Smash a lot, so I feel there's value in it. The amount of content in Mario Kart's DLC packs is just absurdly good though and people are using that as some sort of measuring stick. Overall, Nintendo has been super good with DLC (ie; Mario Golf as well), so while I don't plan on buying Mii outfits, I don't have a really issue with having the option there.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
InvincibleAgent said:
Agg, nevermind. I'm dealing with depression lately. Sheesh. I didn't mean to get so side-tracked into that negative conversation. My point of view is honestly probably not the clearest. *Ahem* I came back here to ask how excited people were about Lucas.

I didn't think he would actually come back. I didn't realize the Mother series was popular enough outside of the core Mother / Smash crowd. I know plenty of people here must be thrilled. That's cool.
Click to expand...
May you feel better, sir.

I don't think Mother is all that popular, but for some reason veterans are automatically popular among Smash players than new characters. Roy is getting lots of support in Japanese polls, even though he isn't a popular character in FE, and is another clone in Smash. :p

The only thing I will say here is that I think X and Z are comparable in the situations I gave.

Sixfortyfive said:
Being completely honest, I'd rather buy an Ultra Smash Bros 4 one year from now with a half-dozen new characters.

Can't wait for the piecemeal DLC to pile up and make locals that much more irritating to run.

Price isn't even the issue.
Click to expand...
Ideally, they do both. However, I understand that Nintendo may not want to fall into the Capcom trap of "I'll wait for the full game a year from now" from customers. Also, the game is hot right now, so it might be more marketable to sell DLC now rather than a new version later.

Personally, I am just glad I don't have to wait longer than I have to. I remember when MvC3 came out, I got $100 in PSN cards so I could buy all the character DLC I thought would happen. Yeah...nothing.

Sixfortyfive said:
They're usually allowed (the only times I've seen DLC characters banned are when they're exclusive to one console in a multi-plat game), but you better hope the TO bought everything on enough of the setups.

It can be really irritating for smaller tournaments that rely on community setups, because not every player wants to bother buying every character.

Then you have issues on what to do after the DLC is taken off the market for whatever reason.

I'm having to go through this pre-order / season pass song and dance for Mortal Kombat X right now and just ugh.
Click to expand...
Few things are worse than waiting in line to play at a station in locals only to sit down and find out there's no Shuma-Gorath. :-(

EvilMario said:
I think if the fighters came with a new stage, the $5 price a lot easier to swallow for most people. I've no issue with the price myself. They didn't skimp on content for the main game, so I don't feel like I'm being cheated and I play Smash a lot, so I feel there's value in it. The amount of content in Mario Kart's DLC packs is just absurdly good though and people are using that as some sort of measuring stick. Overall, Nintendo has been super good with DLC (ie; Mario Golf as well), so while I don't plan on buying Mii outfits, I don't have a really issue with having the option there.
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How does Mario Kart handle DLC tracks?

One issue with DLC stages in Smash is that, if sold individually, it could heavily fracture the user base.

We are getting one stage for free, soon. I wonder: might we get more stages for free? Or maybe we will get a big "stage pack" - that seems more wise than individual stages. Especially if those stages are catered to the competitive community.
 
M

MaverickHunterAsh

Member
SolarKnight said:
I don't think MM's uair counts for that. Windboxes generally mean those that push you without actually hitting you (Greninja's uB, Ike's B2, Link's B, etc). Last I remember Air Shooter acts like none of those.
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Ah, okay. I thought the Air Shooter tornadoes were considered to be unique in that they're windboxes that also damage you (which no other attack in the game does, I believe), but maybe not!
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
I don't think the price of the characters is unfair in Smash, but I do understand why it might not seem like all that great a deal. While I have nothing to back this up in terms of which is a better business proposition, my gut instinct is that it's actually better to release multiple characters (and content) at once for more money. Like, I'm not saying you have to do it exactly, but I think Capcom has the better approach with the incremental Street Fighter updates that seem like a version 1.5.

I'm probably way off the mark here, but I feel like something around 5 new characters, some new stages, and some other superfluous content (like more events and trophies and whatnot) sold for $20 would meet less resistance. But I might also just be off my rocker here.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
I don't think the price of the characters is unfair in Smash, but I do understand why it might not seem like all that great a deal. While I have nothing to back this up in terms of which is a better business proposition, my gut instinct is that it's actually better to release multiple characters (and content) at once for more money. Like, I'm not saying you have to do it exactly, but I think Capcom has the better approach with the incremental Street Fighter updates that seem like a version 1.5.

I'm probably way off the mark here, but I feel like something around 5 new characters, some new stages, and some other superfluous content (like more events and trophies and whatnot) sold for $20 would meet less resistance. But I might also just be off my rocker here.
Click to expand...
Part of it, too, is the timing.

1 DLC character released after 3 months is received with (mostly) praise.

However, if you followed MvC3, then you know that its "update pack" of 12 characters was released 9 months after the original, and people were pissed. Yet if we got 12 DLC characters 9 months after release, I think people would have been overjoyed. Something about a disk being made "useless" upsets people, like the content isn't worthwhile anymore.

Also, since I have you: do you think you will be able to finish your remaining ranbat matches by Sunday?
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Steve Youngblood said:
I'm probably way off the mark here, but I feel like something around 5 new characters, some new stages, and some other superfluous content (like more events and trophies and whatnot) sold for $20 would meet less resistance. But I might also just be off my rocker here.
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People bitched and moaned nonstop that Ultimate MvC3 was a retail game instead of DLC, without stopping to think that the price was way lower than what it would have been had all the content been dripped out individually over time.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Karsticles said:
Part of it, too, is the timing.

1 DLC character released after 3 months is received with (mostly) praise.

However, if you followed MvC3, then you know that its "update pack" of 12 characters was released 9 months after the original, and people were pissed. Yet if we got 12 DLC characters 9 months after release, I think people would have been overjoyed. Something about a disk being made "useless" upsets people, like the content isn't worthwhile anymore.

Also, since I have you: do you think you will be able to finish your remaining ranbat matches by Sunday?
Click to expand...

If I can happen to find some time and one of the other players is available, I'll try just because I hate being a quitter. But I'm probably going to opt out of Season 3 ban or no ban. I wasn't great at this game to begin with and my time away has only made me worse, which makes a best of 9 set for me more frustrating than fun.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Awww but steeevie, you're being a quitter by quitting the game!

Sixfortyfive said:
People bitched and moaned nonstop that Ultimate MvC3 was a retail game instead of DLC, without stopping to think that the price was way lower than what it would have been had all the content been dripped out individually over time.
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The problem was that it made their old disc completely worthless. If you want to keep playing the game (competitively) you had to get the new version. If they offered they new retail version for $40 and a dlc option for $25 bucks people would've been ok, even if you can sell your vanilla copy for 15 bucks to make up the difference
 
S

SolarKnight

Member
Karsticles said:
Ideally, they do both. However, I understand that Nintendo may not want to fall into the Capcom trap of "I'll wait for the full game a year from now" from customers. Also, the game is hot right now, so it might be more marketable to sell DLC now rather than a new version later.
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As long as they don't do it like with NSMB2. They never released the Gold Edition outside of the 3DS XL bundles did they

Karsticles said:
I don't get why this is such a meme when he only got nerfed once. o_O
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Hasn't it been twice?
 
A

Azure J

Member
Would anyone like to play some matches with me? I'm online right now and the room's up.

Edit: Actually, give me 10 minutes or so.
 
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