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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog

F

FluxWaveZ

Member
For how top tier and annoying I hear Sonic's supposed to be, I really don't face many, at least on For Glory. Interesting to hear about the others I should be looking out for here, though.

Zero173 said:
Is it even possible to punish Sonic? I feel like as long as he doesn't dash attack, he's safe. Maybe you can bait him? I don't know, I find going against Sonic frustrating because if the player if good enough, it seems impossible to punish him.

Edit: I usually can stop him with flamethrower, but Charizard is such a slow character, approaching him is almost impossible.
Click to expand...

Sonic is fast, obviously, but there are a lot of openings and it's those openings you have to learn to punish. Just go to Training mode and test him out.
 
M

MrSaturn99

Member
Ryce said:
I found scans of the Nintendo Dream interview with Sakurai. He apparently talks about third-party characters, DLC, reasons for including certain characters, and a bunch of other topics, but it hasn't been translated yet. Is anyone willing to give it a shot? It's a really long interview.
Click to expand...

Oh man I forgot about that. Weren't some Gaffers going to translate that?

Save us, StreetsAhead/Masked Man!
 
D

direct_quote

Member
TheWorthyEdge said:
Oof. Not a good match with Lil Mac. I jumped off because you accidently suicided(?)btw. Common courtesy! Good game though. Good Palutenia.
Click to expand...
I guess the advice I'd give from my short experience is block and punish more?

edit: sorry it seemed laggy if next match isn't better might have to try anothe time
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zero173 said:
Is it even possible to punish Sonic? I feel like as long as he doesn't dash attack, he's safe. Maybe you can bait him? I don't know, I find going against Sonic frustrating because if the player if good enough, it seems impossible to punish him.

Edit: I usually can stop him with flamethrower, but Charizard is such a slow character, approaching him is almost impossible.

Edit2: By slow, I mean lots of ending lag on attacks and starting lag on smash attacks.
Click to expand...
With Charizard, space out his spin dash with ftilt, and maybe Dtilt. Also, down B might be a good trade. If he does the homing dash, spot dodge it and punish.

All easier said than done, but that is how you do it.

TheWorthyEdge said:
Was it just me or was there really bad controller latency/delay there?
Click to expand...
Are you wired?
 
Z

Zero173

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
For how top tier and annoying I hear Sonic's supposed to be, I really don't face many, at least on For Glory. Interesting to hear about the others I should be looking out for here, though.



Sonic is fast, obviously, but there are a lot of openings and it's those openings you have to learn to punish. Just go to Training mode and test him out.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say there are a lot of openings. If he spin dashes and then jumps into the air, he's not open, since he can throw out an air attack (which are all pretty good). And when you feel like he's open, he can just spring into the air.
 
Z

Zero173

Member
Karsticles said:
With Charizard, space out his spin dash with ftilt, and maybe Dtilt. Also, down B might be a good trade. If he does the homing dash, spot dodge it and punish.

All easier said than done, but that is how you do it.
Click to expand...

Lol yea, considering he can cross the stage between two Dtilts, certainly easier said than done.
 
T

TheWorthyEdge

Member
Again, terrible controller delay. I'm using a Pro Controller.

Good games anyways! You're really good! Im still kinda rusty. I need to focus on one person or maybe 2-3 and figure out how they work.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Zero173 said:
I wouldn't say there are a lot of openings. If he spin dashes and then jumps into the air, he's not open, since he can throw out an air attack (which are all pretty good). And when you feel like he's open, he can just spring into the air.
Click to expand...

There are, you just have to learn them. Spin dash openings:

1. Start-up > dash: Any move that outprioritizes his spin dash during this sequence will punish it.
2. Jumps into the air: There is an interval of time between the spin dash jump and when Sonic can execute an air attack that can be punished.
3. Spin dash blocked and doesn't jump from it: Sonic will be vulnerable as he loses momentum, which leaves an opening for you to go on the offense.

It's not like Sonic is this unstoppable beast that can't be touched because his moves have zero recovery time or start-up. Just like any character, learning when to punish is essential. Perhaps more importantly in Sonic's case due to his speed.
 
T

Tansut

Member
The only thing I can think of off the top of my head to help against Sonic is to figure out what moves can best knock him out of whatever he's doing. He doesn't have a lot of priority so usually it doesn't take much. Keeping a Sonic out of their groove can mess with their gameplay.
 
G

Gleethor

Member
Ryce said:
I found scans of the Nintendo Dream interview with Sakurai. He apparently talks about third-party characters, DLC, reasons for including certain characters, and a bunch of other topics, but it hasn't been translated yet. Is anyone willing to give it a shot? It's a really long interview.
Click to expand...

Please someone do this.
 
Z

Zero173

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
There are, you just have to learn them. Spin dash openings:

1. Start-up > dash: Any move that outprioritizes his spin dash during this sequence will punish it.
2. Jumps into the air: There is an interval of time between the spin dash jump and when Sonic can execute an air attack that can be punished.
3. Spin dash blocked and doesn't jump from it: Sonic will be vulnerable as he loses momentum, which leaves an opening for you to go on the offense.

It's not like Sonic is this unstoppable beast that can't be touched because his moves have zero recovery time or start-up. Just like any character, learning when to punish is essential. Perhaps more importantly in Sonic's case due to his speed.
Click to expand...

How do you suggest getting close enough to him to punish him during those intervals, considering those situations would mostlyonly happen when he has created a lot of distance between you two?
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Zero173 said:
How do you suggest getting close enough to him to punish him during those intervals, considering those situations would mostlyonly happen when he has created a lot of distance between you two?
Click to expand...

Block. Sonic has to get in close to do anything and he's faster than you, so let him approach instead of the other way around and punish his mistakes.
 
Z

Zero173

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Block. Sonic has to get in close to do anything and he's faster than you, so let him approach instead of the other way around and punish his mistakes.
Click to expand...

Blocking in order to punish has not proven to be that effective, at least against the Sonics I've played, because usually by the time I've dropped my shield, he's already too far to hit. Though letting the other player approach is something that I know I have to work on. It's partially why i picked up Charizard, more practice reading the opponent instead of trying to come up with some fancy combo because it's become clear that I can't focus very well on both reading the opponent and offense at the same time.
 
V

Vena

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Block. Sonic has to get in close to do anything and he's faster than you, so let him approach instead of the other way around and punish his mistakes.
Click to expand...

A properly spaced, aggro Sonic will not fall to on-block punishes. Aggro against Sonic, I've found, to be more effective than defensive play. There's only so many ways he can approach and his combos are piss-weak.
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Just a reminder for Bracket 3 people that I will be available for ranbat matches tomorrow. And if you want to do a warmup match before the actual matches let me know.
 
G

Geg

Member
Haha Jesus, I just spent nearly an hour in for glory and only won a single match. And that one win lasted nearly the entire match; there were only 11 seconds left on the clock when it ended. He was a Rosalina player though, and spent most of the match trying to attack from a distance with Luma.

Still that one hour probably sent my online win rate back down to 20%. The players online today seem so much better than the people I played against just a few days ago
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Flux is a great Sonic player. When we did our ranbats, while he beat me all 5 matches he used Sonic in (I won 3 when he used other characters), I think Flux would agree that all 5 of those were pretty close. None of them were stomps where I was totally without recourse, I just got consistently outplayed by a reasonable margin.

Our matches were close because I did some of the thing he is listing. However, no counter is perfect, and I clearly misjudged in a some situations.

More importantly: Sonic isn't going away. Complaining about the character benefits no one. Instead, learn to handle the match as best you can. I hope to take a few matches off of Flux next time we play.

My general rule for bitching about a character is this: unless I can honestly say the play was perfect on my end, I used all my tools and capitalized on every mistake my opponent made, I shouldn't be complaining. I should be working harder. I recommend my approach to anyone looking to get better.

Flux, I welcome your comments on this.
 
D

DedValve

Banned
RomanceDawn said:
Can't play again until Jan 5th. Until then tips you may or may not already know!

Bowser
1 - Short Hop-Air Dodge cancel with any special. Especially Bomb or Slam. You can short hop air dodge past projectiles and right into the face of the enemy, let's say they roll opposite of you then you can hold Down and toward the enemy to reverse the Bowser Bomb. It can be a devastating surprise.

2 - If certain characters love to rush you as you fall to the ground down air! Don't over use it though, they will get wise.

3. When characters are on the edge or jumping up just passed the edge try Dair some more! Use it on the edge and it can be a surprising spike. Don't do it off the edge like bomb and expect to grab the ledge.
.
Click to expand...


How do you do this?
 
Z

Zero173

Member
Karsticles said:
Flux is a great Sonic player. When we did our ranbats, while he beat me all 5 matches he used Sonic in (I won 3 when he used other characters), I think Flux would agree that all 5 of those were pretty close. None of them were stomps where I was totally without recourse, I just got consistently outplayed by a reasonable margin.

Our matches were close because I did some of the thing he is listing. However, no counter is perfect, and I clearly misjudged in a some situations.

More importantly: Sonic isn't going away. Complaining about the character benefits no one. Instead, learn to handle the match as best you can. I hope to take a few matches off of Flux next time we play.

My general rule for bitching about a character is this: unless I can honestly say the play was perfect on my end, I used all my tools and capitalized on every mistake my opponent made, I shouldn't be complaining. I should be working harder. I recommend my approach to anyone looking to get better.

Flux, I welcome your comments on this.
Click to expand...

Bruh, you're not saying anything I don't know or don't understand. That's great that the things he listed worked against his sonic, which would make a lot of sense, since he should know what would work against himself. With the Sonics I've watch and with the ones I've played, those things don't work very well, because they play with a style that avoids being punished for what is listed.

And if I was playing without trying to get better and without trying to understand the ways in which I can counter other characters, then I wouldn't be playing at all. So your approach is not much different from mine. Except for the part where I'm complaining, which doesn't necessarily have to be viewed as negative, because my complaining led to Flux offering a helpful suggestion. Sometimes complaining is helpful, and you can complain and try to get better simultaneously, doesn't have to be one or the other.

Maybe I can complain in a different way that doesn't bother you, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
 
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