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[Caladrius]

I was skeptical the entire time. I didn't think the leak couldn't be right but irksome little details kept me from buying into it wholesale.

Well, Toon Link isn't in Hyrule Warriors either - they chose a very limited selection of games to pull characters from. Though I agree Vaati is basically the Geno of Zelda, as far as Smash chances go. Did he even have a sticker in Brawl?

I think there was, actually.

Evidently, this means Nintendo has funded a continuation of the series as a UDS launch title, complete with Ike, Little Mac and Captain Falcon cameos.

You

Spoiler

We

wish.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I can't remember the exact moment I bought into the leak, but I think it was when Famitsu showed that one unrevealed Tomodachi Life room that was in the stage preview icon?

 

[KLatin Scelus]

I didn't trust the leak untill Nintendo took down the video from YouTube.


I normally don't trust leaks unless they have a lot of evidence supporting them.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I didn't trust the leak untill Nintendo took down the video from YouTube.


I normally don't trust leaks unless they have a lot of evidence supporting them.

The video was evidence enough

 

[Spainkiller]

-Spainkiller is already dead.

 

[K-A-Deman]

Why the hell would anyone want Bandanan Dee.

so we'd get a spear user is Smash?

Spoiler

I was really rooting for Lucina to be Great Lord so we'd have a sword/spear user. Shame.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Nope. Vaati had literally zero representation in Brawl. No trophy. No sticker.

every now and then I remind myself of this fact and laugh quietly.

where's mewtwo

is that gif hinting him

 

[theprodigy]

so we'd get a spear user is Smash?

Spoiler

I was really rooting for Lucina to be Great Lord so we'd have a sword/spear user. Shame.

Spoiler

ikr that would have made her not a clone too

 

[Caladrius]

It will be interesting to see how this direct affects future rumors.

Is it Thursday yet?

Nope. Vaati had literally zero representation in Brawl. No trophy. No sticker.

You're right, actually. Weird.

Did ages and seasons ever get referenced?

 

[Thorakai]

I wish Mario didn't look so angry in Smash. I would love him to be more jolly like his 3D World render.

 

[Golnei]

You're right, actually. Weird.

Did ages and seasons ever get referenced?

They didn't get anything. And even Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland got a few stickers.

I wonder why that was the case - evidently there weren't any licensing issues with Capcom or Minish Cap wouldn't have shown up, and there was plenty of available artwork to use.

Spoiler

ikr that would have made her not a clone too

Not really, it would have just made her a clone with misleading hitboxes.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

I wish Mario didn't look so angry in Smash. I would love him to be more jolly like his 3D World render.

Mario and Captain Falcon are the worst offenders when it comes to "Smash/ Canon" personalities.

Though, I doubt people mind with Falcon.

 

[Richie]

I wish Mario didn't look so angry in Smash. I would love him to be more jolly like his 3D World render.

Mario programmed in America confirmed

I do wish Mario was all happy go lucky like he usually is, and they focused all the anger and seriousness on the Doc. One of his victory screens almost seems to reference House.

 

[Hatchtag]

eh, Mario basically has three moods: jolly (most game covers), angry (smash and before some boss fights), and oblivious. Oblivious doesn't really work here and jolly would result in him being like the Killager. I think angry Mario kinda works in Smash.

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

I wish Mario didn't look so angry in Smash. I would love him to be more jolly like his 3D World render.

It was way worse in Brawl, though. I don't think he even smiled once in that game.

 

[MrSaturn99]

It was way worse in Brawl, though. I don't think he even smiled once in that game.

He did a bit in his up-tilt and...I think one other animation I can't recall. From what we've seen in screenshots, there's a better balance here.

 

[OricWindstar]

I wish Mario didn't look so angry in Smash. I would love him to be more jolly like his 3D World render.

Smash ain't no joke.

 

[theprodigy]

eh, Mario basically has three moods: jolly (most game covers), angry (smash and before some boss fights), and oblivious. Oblivious doesn't really work here and jolly would result in him being like the Killager. I think angry Mario kinda works in Smash.

you say this like there's something wrong with that

 

[georly]

If Vaati cannot get in Hyrule Warriors of all things, there is no way he is going to be playable in Super Smash Bros, especially as DLC of all things.

No characters from any 'toon' zeldas made it in to hyrule warriors either.

 

[Green Mamba]

Reposting from the 3DS thread, because that thread's just filled with people exchanging friend codes:

Is there any good, verifiable source that there is any difference between Pit and Dark Pit's normal attacks? Because I've been seeing lists of things supposedly different between the two and everything I've actually physically tested has turned out to be false. I just cleaned up the Smash Wiki's info on stuff I tested myself. Near as I can tell all of the differences between their normals are imagined, because every one I've seen people say are different have actually been identical.

 

[PadWarrior]

I always thought Mario was so angry cause he just got off from a crappy plumbing job.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

From TVTropes about Mario's personality, I love this website.

Out of Character: Unlike most characters, his characterization in the Smash franchise is totally different than in his home franchise. He still says "Yahoo!" as he attacks, but as of Melee most of his animations make him seem rather serious. Further solidified in the Brawl cutscenes and Smash 4 reveal trailers where he's a sort of Old West style Stoic, generally disinterested and straight faced, but will jump head first into battle when a formidable enemy shows up. Smash really brings out his competitive streak.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I'm interested in learning about the differences between Pit/Dark Pit as well.

 

[DooD1234]

Reposting from the 3DS thread, because that thread's just filled with people exchanging friend codes:

Is there any good, verifiable source that there is any difference between Pit and Dark Pit's normal attacks? Because I've been seeing lists of things supposedly different between the two and everything I've actually physically tested has turned out to be false. I just cleaned up the Smash Wiki's info on stuff I tested myself. Near as I can tell all of the differences between their normals are imagined, because every one I've seen people say are different have actually been identical.

Far as I know, only their B and Side B and final smash are different. Everything is the same.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

Far as I know, only their B and Side B and final smash are different. Everything is the same.

Reposting from the 3DS thread, because that thread's just filled with people exchanging friend codes:

Is there any good, verifiable source that there is any difference between Pit and Dark Pit's normal attacks? Because I've been seeing lists of things supposedly different between the two and everything I've actually physically tested has turned out to be false. I just cleaned up the Smash Wiki's info on stuff I tested myself. Near as I can tell all of the differences between their normals are imagined, because every one I've seen people say are different have actually been identical.

Wow, I don't think even Melee had clones this close.

 

[Ipsoclipso]

He looks even more angry in the Mario Kart 8 poster.

I wonder what happened, he looked really happy in MKWii.

 

[Green Mamba]

Wow, I don't think even Melee had clones this close.

Dr. Mario was easily the closest of the Melee clones and his Melee incarnation was an entire league above Lucina and Dark Pit in terms of differences from his source, let alone his current incarnation, to the point that it actually kind of bothers me that he's included in the "clone corner" with them.

 

[Pyrokai]

I'm interested in learning about the differences between Pit/Dark Pit as well.

Spoiler: like....nothing.

Far as I know, only their B and Side B and final smash are different. Everything is the same.

And by "different ", he means in looks only for Side B. I think the characters fly diagonally when hit with it instead of vertically too or something, but it's basically the same other than aesthetically.

 

[Caladrius]

Unlike Smash, Mario Kart actually is serious business.

They didn't get anything. And even Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland got a few stickers.

I wonder why that was the case - evidently there weren't any licensing issues with Capcom or Minish Cap wouldn't have shown up, and there was plenty of available artwork to use.

Either no time or they wanted to more thoroughly cover other eras, I guess.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Spoiler: like....nothing.

Huh.

I'll have to test that out for my own, then. I haven't played as those two that much.

 

[Man God]

Dr. Mario was easily the closest of the Melee clones and his Melee incarnation was an entire league above Lucina and Dark Pit in terms of differences, let alone his current incarnation, to the point that it actually kind of bothers me that he's included in the "clone corner" with them.

Lucina is right up there with Roy.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

Dr. Mario was easily the closest of the Melee clones and his Melee incarnation was an entire league above Lucina and Dark Pit in terms of differences from his source, let alone his current incarnation, to the point that it actually kind of bothers me that he's included in the "clone corner" with them.

If they return in a sequel (Lucina & Dark Pit), I hope they have more differences.

 

[Pyrokai]

Huh.

I'll have to test that out for my own, then. I haven't played as those two that much.

I edited my post to elaborate some more. But that's seriously the only thing I can tell that's different. Of course, the final smash is different though.

 

[Richie]

He looks even more angry in the Mario Kart 8 poster.

I wonder what happened, he looked really happy in MKWii.

System sales. Looking less and less happy with each one, the Wii being an exception.

 

[Green Mamba]

Lucina is right up there with Roy.

Roy's attacks had different hitboxes, damages, and speeds and he had his own running speed, falling speed, and jump heights. The only differences Lucina has in that regard are attack hitboxes and damages and a miniscule-ly smaller body hitbox. She's not even remotely close to as different as Roy was.

 

[Hatchtag]

Lucina is right up there with Roy.

Roy has different physics. That alone makes him much more different than Lucina is.
I'd say for the uselessness of clones, I'd rank them this way:
Dark Pit (b)> Lucina (b)> Dr. Mario (Melee) (b)> Pichu (b)> Young Link (b,c)> Dr. Mario (Smash 4) (a,b)> Falco (Melee) (b,c) > Roy (b,c) > Ganondorf (Melee)(a,b,c).
a=different moves
b=altered move properties
c=(noticably) altered physics
I didn't count final smashes, which is a bit biased but makes comparing the Smash 4 clones to the Melee clones easier.

 

[Man God]

You're right, Lucina has almost nothing in common with Roy.

She's good!

Luigi is also an A,B,C character. Wolf too.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Wow, from what I've tested so far both Pits really do have the same damage output. Pyrokai is correct though in that their side-Bs have different launching properties.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

You're right, Lucina has almost nothing in common with Roy.

She's good!

Luigi is also an A,B,C character. Wolf too.

Wolf and (Brawl/SSB4)Luigi are, at most, semi-clones.

I personally, wouldn't even call Wolf a semi-clone.

 

[Richie]

Wolf and (Brawl/SSB4)Luigi are semi-clones at the least.

I personally, wouldn't even call Wolf a semi-clone.

At least personally Wolf felt more different from Fox than Falco did, even.

 

[Hatchtag]

You're right, Lucina has almost nothing in common with Roy.

She's good!

Luigi is also an A,B,C character. Wolf too.

I wouldn't count Wolf, Toon Link, Lucas, or non-N64 Luigi as a clone.

 

[Man God]

Wolf is much less cloneish than SSBM Falco.

I wouldn't count Wolf, Toon Link, Lucas, or non-N64 Luigi as a clone.

Even N64 Luigi is still pretty different.

I go under a pretty loose definition of clone, share more than a few of the same moves or have a very similar look even if they have different properties beyond basic punch kick combos and you're a clone. Toon Link, Luigi, and Wolf are at the end of this definition. Lucas is close to the middle, he's pretty damn cloneish in look if not in actual play terms.

A good example is the Shoto's. Ryu and Ken are very similar in a lot of games but Ryu and Sakura play completely different even though they share a lot of the same moves. I'd still consider her a clone.

 

[Red Arremer]

You're right, Lucina has almost nothing in common with Roy.

She's good!

Luigi is also an A,B,C character. Wolf too.

Wolf is nothing like Fox or Falco. Falco already has quite a bit differentiation in his normals and specials in his Brawl and Smash 4 iterations, but Wolf takes it even beyond that. Wolf's entire normal moveset is 100% different from anything Fox does. Moveset-wise, Wolf has as much in common with Fox as Ryu does with Chun-Li.

Wolf is more of a "character whose properties are inspired by the character type the source material provides" rather than a copypaste job with a couple of different moves or stats.

 

[Green Mamba]

You're right, Lucina has almost nothing in common with Roy.

She's good!

Luigi is also an A,B,C character. Wolf too.

That has very little to what I was saying, but okay.

Luigi from SSB64 is roughly equivalent to a Melee clone. Beyond that I wouldn't count him as a clone period. Wolf and Lucas weren't really either.

 

[OmegaSmash]

Wow, from what I've tested so far both Pits really do have the same damage output. Pyrokai is correct though in that their side-Bs have different launching properties.

If this is honestly true (I say we should wait for the guide to come out just to be sure), then this is incredibly disappointing. At least Melee tried to make the clones feel different even if they looked like near straight copies.

 

[Neiteio]

Of all the clones you guys are discussing, Wolf is definitely the one who felt "least cloned" to me. So go figures he's the one who's cut, lol.

 

[Hatchtag]

If this is honestly true (I say we should wait for the guide to come out just to be sure), then this is incredibly disappointing. At least Melee tried to make the clones feel different even if they were near straight copies.

I wish Lucina had somewhat different physics at least, although they may not have done that because it made Roy so much worse compared to Marth in Melee. I can understand Dark Pit only having the weapon moves be different, since he's literally just a dark Pit.

 

[Green Mamba]

Yeah, Lucina and Dark Pit are pretty disappointing clones even. Melee's clones were designed to feel like new characters using an old one as a base, to different extents. Lucina and Dark Pit feel like "lazy-man's Marth" and "Pit with angry eyes" respectively.

 

[Richie]

Of all the clones you guys are discussing, Wolf is definitely the one who felt "least cloned" to me. So go figures he's the one who's cut, lol.

This broke my heart. Also Lucas' departure, because even if the B moves were similar, the A attacks (which comprise the majority of the moveset) were night and day compared to Ness, I preferred using Lucas as a result. That godly Up A...

 

[KLatin Scelus]

At least personally Wolf felt more different from Fox than Falco did, even.

I meant to say "at most". I got the two words mixed-up. :/

I don't think Wolf is a semi-clone/ clone at all.