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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!

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D

dragonballjoseph

Member
abstract alien said:
I still can't understand how he pulls off a walking ultra. We can pull off pad ultras all day with zang, but a walking ultra...in my freakin dreams. Probably not possible there either. I just find it hard to believe, but the man is indeed just that outrageous.
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Analog stick and d-pad.
 
N

n3ss

aka acr0nym
Haunts... Insane commentary... I think I got one word in randomly... Hilarious. Good seeing all of the ks2 cats, been awhile. Nor cal domination :D
 
A

arstal

Whine Whine FADC Troll
LiveFromKyoto said:
Soul Calibur IV is not balanced at all, it's actually got banned character and move/combo lists at a lot of tournaments.

Tekken 6 might be just about the most balanced game going right now. It has a dominant tier for sure, but major tournaments have been won with half the cast, and people are just recently discovering things about certain characters (hello, Roger Jr.) that make them likely to win in the future. The top 20 on PSN is riddled with characters who I've seen listed as low tier (the #1 guy uses Zafina, who I've seen listed as bottom tier in some places).

Basically, the whole tier list is largely meaningless in that game because while some characters have advantages, they also all have the basic tools necessary to beat anyone (ie. 10 frame jabs). Plus, the move list is so huge it's impossible for anyone to learn every matchup inside & out like you can with SF (nobody's going to be able to recognize all those moves in the first couple of frames), so you can snake even top players sometimes by using lesser known characters.
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That's why I said if they got the formula right. You judge a game after applying the banlist though, otherwise HDR would be complete trash since Akuma's playable.

Tekken- I agree with you- though Tekken online is nothing like offline. Zafina really can take advantage of not being used much + lag abuse. Had more fun with Tekken then SF4 though, despite the issues.

As for SF4, I'm pretty much done with it myself- I'm only playing the ranbat stuff right now, and even then I feel forced to play. I feel the execution barriers too much, and I don't like that.
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
Damm some Dudley matches are retarded... Dalhsim and seth keep away game is just devastating against Duds poor reach. Wasn't even fighting a good seth and was having problems winning... where is my damm parrying from third strike???

Duds is an amazing char, but the way they made him in ssf4, he has some of the most retarded matches against some characters...

Focusing works to some level, but its easier to catch a bullet with your own hands than to catch one of those limbs with it ;p!

Also, I hate the fact I have three moves that are almost worthless : Thunderbolt, short swing blow and to some extent cross counter, great idea but activating it is slower than a donkey with 1 leg...
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
arstal said:
That's why I said if they got the formula right. You judge a game after applying the banlist though, otherwise HDR would be complete trash since Akuma's playable.

Tekken- I agree with you- though Tekken online is nothing like offline. Zafina really can take advantage of not being used much + lag abuse. Had more fun with Tekken then SF4 though, despite the issues.

As for SF4, I'm pretty much done with it myself- I'm only playing the ranbat stuff right now, and even then I feel forced to play. I feel the execution barriers too much, and I don't like that.
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The execution is hard... this game is closer than a sport than any other, you actually have to put a tremendous number of hours to have your combos down and fadc's. Its a good thing in some way because people will learn stuff in it 10 years from now, on the other hand its really bad because you have to waste as inane amount of time practicing.

Personally I would of removed a lot of 1 and 2 frame combos (rather concentrate on the strategy than the execution...) if only a handful of people competing can actually use them during matches, it seems like a real waste! Besides, you can practice to a certain level, execution is not something that everybody can learn, like in sports some people will just always be naturally better at it!

Myself I can get most of my duds combos on the training room... online they all fall apart! Go figure...
 
R

Resilient

Member
Hey dudes. Entering my first tournament at the start of October (BAM, in Victoria). Going to enter SSF4 Singles and Teams. What are some things I should look out for that differ when I play at a tournament compared to an arcade? I guess I'm sorta looking for tips here and there so I know what to expect seeing as it's my first ;_;
 
taku

taku

Member
NinajHeartless said:
157509900-b04915aab5ca5ad29536f4a3ac8674f9.4c84d0b8-full.jpg


I'll just leave this here...
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290zxj5.jpg
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
AkumaHokoru said:
I dont really enjoy it i like good matches instead i get mashing/running/random ultra bullshit on a fairly frequent basis.
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Sounds like you are playing online too much and taking it too seriously.
 
W

Wiseblade

Member
bluebird said:
Hey dudes. Entering my first tournament at the start of October (BAM, in Victoria). Going to enter SSF4 Singles and Teams. What are some things I should look out for that differ when I play at a tournament compared to an arcade? I guess I'm sorta looking for tips here and there so I know what to expect seeing as it's my first ;_;
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Some people play more conservatively than they would otherwise, becoming acutely aware that every hit is "a step closer to elimination". Although this mostly refers to people with little tournament experience in single elim or losers bracket, it can happen to others.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
I've been playing a lot of Darkstalkers lately, and you know what?

It's not very fun. Sorry, Ono.

FlightOfHeaven said:
What, you didn't know?
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That's like single-handedly making pads the superior choice for grapplers. I had no idea.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
dragonballjoseph said:
Analog stick and d-pad.
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Nah, that doesn't work. You can try it in training mode.

You just buffer the first 360 off a tick or whiff like st. short, then after a step forward you do the 2nd 360 + PPP
 
S

Shin Kojima

Banned
Myomoto said:
Also, EX wall kick has close to full invincibility on the way up, making it a pretty good escape tool.
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Really? I thought that was only vs fireballs in Super. Does it still work vs other attacks at all?
 
G

gutabo

Member
God's Beard said:
How many characters can stop time in Darkstalkers?
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ZA WORUDO!!!!!

WRIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!

Jojo is awesome too, a lot of its game mechanics aren't as "intuitive" as darkstalkers. They are both great games. Also fuck Pet Shop.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
entrement said:
So who won the iplaywinner tourney? I had to leave and missed the rest of the stream.
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I wasn't paying very close attention but I remember seeing Vangief beating Filipino Champ and then they shook hands and both were handed money. I guess that would make Vangief the winner of that tourney.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Teknopathetic said:
Darkstalkers is 20x the game Jojo's is. Sorry, God's Beard.

and I like Jojo's
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Nah, Jojo is the superior game. With an extensive single player mode, really original characters with weird playstyles and glorious CPS3 graphics.

On the other hand Darkstalkers was just horror themed street fighter in the inferior CPS2, with ryu becoming a vampire, zangief becoming a frankestein, etc etc and less interesting gameplay. Dunno why'd you play it instead of the much better Alpha series.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
ElFly said:
Nah, Jojo is the superior game. With an extensive single player mode, really original characters with weird playstyles and glorious CPS3 graphics.

On the other hand Darkstalkers was just horror themed street fighter in the inferior CPS2, with ryu becoming a vampire, zangief becoming a frankestein, etc etc and less interesting gameplay. Dunno why'd you play it instead of the much better Alpha series.
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What the

Jojo isn't the superior game. It's actually very lazily programmed apparently.

Like the devs knew alot of characters would have infinite combos. So their remedy to this was just to have combos randomly stop for no real reason at times.

Nothing in Vampire Savior is that lazy.(which imo is the definitive version of Darkstalkers and a very excellent fighting game)
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
Technically, the first two Darkstalkers came out before Street Fighter Alpha 1. And at the time, CPS2 graphics were awesome (SSF2T was not representative of the incredible graphics in Darkstalkers and X-Men).

And some of the ideas like Alpha Counters, chain combos, air blocking, etc were originally in Darkstalkers. Granted, they did use the SF archetypes but most games do.
 
A

arstal

Whine Whine FADC Troll
DarkoMaledictus said:
The execution is hard... this game is closer than a sport than any other, you actually have to put a tremendous number of hours to have your combos down and fadc's. Its a good thing in some way because people will learn stuff in it 10 years from now, on the other hand its really bad because you have to waste as inane amount of time practicing.

Personally I would of removed a lot of 1 and 2 frame combos (rather concentrate on the strategy than the execution...) if only a handful of people competing can actually use them during matches, it seems like a real waste! Besides, you can practice to a certain level, execution is not something that everybody can learn, like in sports some people will just always be naturally better at it!

Myself I can get most of my duds combos on the training room... online they all fall apart! Go figure...
Click to expand...

This is exactly, as you described it, what I don't like about 2d fighters- too much emphasis on execution, not enough on the strategy. People like Kadey will disagree, and that's fine- it's an opinion. (and I'm not singling you out here Kadey).

I feel like 3d fighters have , in general, execution that is much easier- or if it's something hard, there are defenses against it that are easier to do. If someone's pulling ETEG 3-throw escapes in VF- there's usually a simple move to nail him for it if you predict it. Destruction Wave CH, PPP, ground grab does wonders to stop that.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
arstal said:
This is exactly, as you described it, what I don't like about 2d fighters- too much emphasis on execution, not enough on the strategy. People like Kadey will disagree, and that's fine- it's an opinion. (and I'm not singling you out here Kadey).

I feel like 3d fighters have , in general, execution that is much easier- or if it's something hard, there are defenses against it that are easier to do. If someone's pulling ETEG 3-throw escapes in VF- there's usually a simple move to nail him for it if you predict it. Destruction Wave CH, PPP, ground grab does wonders to stop that.
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The idea with ETTEG in VF (before FS simplified the throw system mechanics) is that it's a HUGE option select with a relatively high execution requirement that rewards you for being able to do it. The only way to reliably beat it is to use a throw input they may not have attempted to escape or to use a low HC/FC move, since blocking low is the only thing you cannot do based on a potential counterattack. Once they see you expect an ETTEG and use a circular move to counter it, they'll start blocking low or using something like ARM to avoid the low hit.

The only real execution barrier to being a top-level player I see in SF4 and super is some of the tighter FADC requirements and some of the 1-frame links. 1FL have already found ways to make them easier (double tapping, plinking, etc) and FADC is really just a matter of practice.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Rice-Eater said:
I wasn't paying very close attention but I remember seeing Vangief beating Filipino Champ and then they shook hands and both were handed money. I guess that would make Vangief the winner of that tourney.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Vance won.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Chopperman said:
What the

Jojo isn't the superior game. It's actually very lazily programmed apparently.

Like the devs knew alot of characters would have infinite combos. So their remedy to this was just to have combos randomly stop for no real reason at times.

Nothing in Vampire Savior is that lazy.(which imo is the definitive version of Darkstalkers and a very excellent fighting game)
Click to expand...

Apparently? Don't talk shit about games you don't play. A lot of characters have infinites? Combos that stop for no reason? What the fuck? It's not like Darkstalkers doesn't have 100% damage combos. Even SSF4 does.

The remedy for infinites in Jojo is the same as every other fighting game. Inhuman execution and insane combo scaling. The only character I can think of that has a real practical infinite i s probably Shadow Dio. Pet Shop can loop his super, but fuck Pet Shop. He's Gill on crack.

The reason crazy shit doesn't happen as often in Vampire Saviour is because it's a fucking Street Fighter clone. It's got shotos and years of applied data. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is a 1-time licensed game with several times the game mechanics that Vampire Saviour has. Dio Brando alone has about as many special moves as half of the Darkstalkers cast.

Two types of offensive guard, dash extension and canceling, universal roll, programmable Assists, custom combos, multiple supers, stances and unique game mechanics for almost every single character. It's as fast paced as 3rd Strike, and zoning is more important than Super Street Fighter IV. Links are generally tighter than both games. Don't tell me it's a lazy videogame.
 
P

Prime crotch

Banned
God's Beard said:
Two types of offensive guard, dash extension and canceling, universal roll, programmable Assists, custom combos, multiple supers, stances and unique game mechanics for almost every single character. It's as fast paced as 3rd Strike, and zoning is more important than Super Street Fighter IV. Links are generally tighter than both games. Don't tell me it's a lazy videogame.
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Everything in Jojo's is much better than SFIV, really.
As a full package, visual design, sound design etc..., I would say Jojo is better than VS while VS is a better fighting game, but not by a huge margin.
 
C

CPS2

Member
Chopperman said:
Like the devs knew alot of characters would have infinite combos. So their remedy to this was just to have combos randomly stop for no real reason at times.
Click to expand...

I just read that here the other day. Kind of disappointing cos it looks like a very cool game otherwise.
 
L

LiveFromKyoto

Member
arstal said:
I feel like 3d fighters have , in general, execution that is much easier- or if it's something hard, there are defenses against it that are easier to do.
Click to expand...

You are the only person in the world I've ever heard say this. There is nothing (deliberately programmed into) in any 2D fighter I can name that approaches the difficulty in execution of Akira's SPOD/lance or Tekken's just frames or (pre-simplified) VF throw escapes that required an inhuman amount of wrist speed and accuracy.

Tekken's throw escapes are ridiculously difficult to master now as well; it's the kind of thing that only a small percentage of the player base is ever going to have quick enough decision making skills to do. You basically have a couple of frames to recognize which of 3 throw animations are coming at you (and they're hard to distinguish because the difference between them is small, especially if the camera's at an angle) and respond accordingly, and you only get one shot at it because the game recognizes your first attempt as your escape input.

Note- I'm not saying that makes the games superior, just that the notion that they don't have the highest execution requirements going is pretty tough to argue against. They've got math on their side.
 
A

arstal

Whine Whine FADC Troll
hikarutilmitt said:
The idea with ETTEG in VF (before FS simplified the throw system mechanics) is that it's a HUGE option select with a relatively high execution requirement that rewards you for being able to do it. The only way to reliably beat it is to use a throw input they may not have attempted to escape or to use a low HC/FC move, since blocking low is the only thing you cannot do based on a potential counterattack. Once they see you expect an ETTEG and use a circular move to counter it, they'll start blocking low or using something like ARM to avoid the low hit.

The only real execution barrier to being a top-level player I see in SF4 and super is some of the tighter FADC requirements and some of the 1-frame links. 1FL have already found ways to make them easier (double tapping, plinking, etc) and FADC is really just a matter of practice.
Click to expand...

ETEG isn't as vital as those things mentioned. It's an option select, but in VF you have enough offensive options that you can predict ETEG and punish nicely. If you get them to use those other options (ARM, haven't heard that one- probably something obvious I don't know acronym for)- like low block, you can establish your other offense.

ETEG's an advantage, but it's not going to get you wins as easily as execution can in most other fighters.

BTW it's looking like you can do a double throw escape in FS by buffering an evade between TE's now. Hopefully Sega if they console release patches that out. (Defeats the whole point).

LiveFromKyoto said:
You are the only person in the world I've ever heard say this. There is nothing (deliberately programmed into) in any 2D fighter I can name that approaches the difficulty in execution of Akira's SPOD/lance or Tekken's just frames or (pre-simplified) VF throw escapes that required an inhuman amount of wrist speed and accuracy.

Tekken's throw escapes are ridiculously difficult to master now as well; it's the kind of thing that only a small percentage of the player base is ever going to have quick enough decision making skills to do. You basically have a couple of frames to recognize which of 3 throw animations are coming at you (and they're hard to distinguish because the difference between them is small, especially if the camera's at an angle) and respond accordingly, and you only get one shot at it because the game recognizes your first attempt as your escape input.

Note- I'm not saying that makes the games superior, just that the notion that they don't have the highest execution requirements going is pretty tough to argue against. They've got math on their side.
Click to expand...

Just frames are pretty much 1f links at worst. They are damage bonuses, but can't lead to as much damage bonus as SF4 links. Probably equally hard. Then again most of the chars I play in 3D don't rely on JF's so can't judge entirely.

Tekken TE's- it's a bad system. SC does it best I think. That said, that's more observation based then execution based, and you can still guess it.

I'm not saying the execution requirements are lower, there's an equal amount of high-execution stuff in both. I'm saying that the high-execution stuff isn't as powerful.
 
S

stabicron7

Member
Imm0rt4l said:
You can see his hat though.
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I can't, personally think its another instance of people wanting to see something that isn't there at this point. Every so called confirmation so far has been so blurry or doesn't show enough that you can't really be certain.

Remember these pics are coming from Ono the king of trolls after all :p
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
stabicron7 said:
I can't, personally think its another instance of people wanting to see something that isn't there at this point.
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The blue and yellow hat is clearly visible in between the guy's head and the round-win indicator or whatever.
 
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