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[skitzophrenicdontpanic]

LOL. Good explanation! Incoming mad Viper players.. p.s. I play both characters.

Sako destroying people = do something about Cammy plz.

Burning Kick has more recovery and is punishable by focus if someone is doing it in your face over and over. Also, a successful BK knocks down, not leads to more combo options. It being slower also means it's not as viable for meter building (though if this were a reason TKCS was nerfed it's pretty stupid).

Instant BK is pretty great in a corner because then it can lead to other combo options, but you can hardly throw it out midscreen on a near constant basis because of it being punishable.

 

[hitsugi]

sorry, its too obvious to write a paragraph about it.

but removing TKCS makes sense to you because it's "free lockdown" for her? :lol

Also, a successful BK knocks down, not leads to more combo options.

You're right, it means you're about to guess which way her next jump in / BK is going to hit.

 

[skitzophrenicdontpanic]

You're right, it means you're about to guess which way her next jump in / BK is going to hit.

Cammy doesn't even need to land hers to make you guess what she's going to do next.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

This might just be my scrubby Gief thinking here, but Zangief having a move that has startup invincibility, does a fair amount of damage, and puts him inside SPD range. This is bad for him, how?

Because theirs no knockdown, and you can't spd when your opponents in blockstun anyways.
Unless they made other changes to greenhand it leaves gief at -2, that's free ultra for your opponent if he's a grappler or rog and super for a few characters. Gief can combo all of his links into ex green hands and once he does that he can begin knockdown mixups. His Okizeme game is very important because, he has the opportunity to never let his opponent get up. Now without greenhand he doesn't have any real viable way to get crossups. this is a very important part of Zangiefs game right now.

 

[ElFly]

Hondas Ultra 2 is now HCBx2.

Jesus, capcom, those are way harder than a 720. It's not like that ultra is too good.

 

[_Xenon_]

The Blanka nerf only really effects scrubby Blankas. (Granted, that's 99% of them) A good Blanka isn't going to ball randomly at you all day.

This won't affect 80% of Blanka's matchups but will make it quite difficult to deal with Ken, Sakura, THawk. They already have better footsies than Blanka and now they can punish ground ball without meter. Unless CAPCOM buff his normal or electricity a little bit I don't think Blanka can maintain his tier level.

 

[NeoUltima]

Jesus, capcom, those are way harder than a 720. It's not like that ultra is too good.

Huh really? I find 2xhcb way easier.

 

[Degen]

but what of hawk

what has become of the haaawk

 

[ElFly]

Huh really? I find 2xhcb way easier.

Dunno. I always end up jumping on these movements, and now it has a direction. A 720 motion can start anywhere, and in any direction, which gives you more flexibility.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

When you don't understand what you are talking about , keep your mouth shut. Otherwise, you look stupid.

Seriously, you should follow your own advice bob...

 

[_Xenon_]

I found a summary of all the confirmed changes on ALL characters but it's in Japanese:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html

Google translation is kind of useless for this because obviously nobody plays SSF4 in google ...

 

[the_log_ride]

Nooooo, take it from Dhalsim also to make it fair.

 

[Lost Fragment]

As someone who mains Viper and uses Cammy as a secondary, yeah, there really is no comparison between burning kick and tkcs.

I can understand taking out tkcs really. But at the same time, loketests, etc. A lot of these changes probably aren't gonna make it to the final build.

 

[McNum]

Because theirs no knockdown, and you can't spd when your opponents in blockstun anyways.
Unless they made other changes to greenhand it leaves gief at -2, that's free ultra for your opponent if he's a grappler or rog and super for a few characters. Gief can combo all of his links into ex green hands and once he does that he can begin knockdown mixups. His Okizeme game is very important because, he has the opportunity to never let his opponent get up. Now without greenhand he doesn't have any real viable way to get crossups. this is a very important part of Zangiefs game right now.

Ah that makes sense. Guess we'll have to see if they sped up his recovery on that, otherwise that's pretty annoying for him. Sure, he can take a lot of hits, but there's no reason to give out free ultras.

 

[Leunam]

I found a summary of all the confirmed changes on ALL characters but it's in Japanese:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html

Google translation is kind of useless for this because obviously nobody plays SSF4 in google ...

So close yet so far.

 

[the_log_ride]

I found a summary of all the confirmed changes on ALL characters but it's in Japanese:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html

Google translation is kind of useless for this because obviously nobody plays SSF4 in google ...

For Deejay:
st.HK hits mid lvl now

 

[USD]

I found a summary of all the confirmed changes on ALL characters but it's in Japanese:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html

Google translation is kind of useless for this because obviously nobody plays SSF4 in google ...

So Mak gets Armor Break EX Hayate, more invincibility on EX Oroshi, and a damage boost on Fukiage.

Also, Rose lost all invincibility on Soul Satellite. :lol

Dan gets more height off of his air taunt. Godlike. :lol

Apparently EX Green Hand knockdowns on counter hit.

 

[Lost Fragment]

So Mak gets Armor Break EX Hayate, more invincibility on Oroshi, and a damage boost on Fukiage.

Also, Rose lost all invincibility on Soul Satellite. :lol

Dan gets more height off of his air taunt. Godlike. :lol

More damage on fukiage? She can already juggle you for like 300 damage off that shit :lol

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

but removing TKCS makes sense to you because it's "free lockdown" for her? :lol

.

:lol ?

its true for most of the cast, either keep cammy out or die.

I cant say if that change makes sense or not yet, but people are acting like Cammy was removed from the game or something; she still has mix-up, and can still do the same with meter. And lets ignore the other change they mentioned about "comboing normals easier" whatever that means.

So Mak gets Armor Break EX Hayate, more invincibility on Oroshi, and a damage boost on Fukiage.

EX Oroshi? Change i can believe in.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

LOL, Blanka, nerf that piece of shit so no one plays em anymore

Hakan cancelling 360 K is so obvious. In fact ALL chargeable moves should be able to be cancelled

Haha cammy, no free lockdown for you.

The blanka thing makes me want to pick him now. No people have one less thing to complain about. Next will have to be electroshock nerf. I like ball for closing distance fast, and when I'm blocked it's usually punished anyway. This is a nerf for people that spam hp mid screen balls.

 

[Gr1mLock]

i cant wait for the final version of this clusterfuck. some of the changes are pretty baffling..INTERESTING...but baffling

 

[_Xenon_]

I found a summary of all the confirmed changes on ALL characters but it's in Japanese:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html

Google translation is kind of useless for this because obviously nobody plays SSF4 in google ...

Some guesses from my poor knowledge of Japanese:

Abel:
command grab damage nerf
more recovery on breathless

Sagat:
more recovery on tiger knee
damage BUFF on tiger uppercut

Makoto:
ex dash punch breaks armor
ex chop (the overhead move) has more invincible frames
uppercut buff (no detail)

Adon:
wakeup time changed (I fucking knew it it's a bug)

 

[Degen]

I found a summary of all the confirmed changes on ALL characters but it's in Japanese:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html

Google translation is kind of useless for this because obviously nobody plays SSF4 in google ...

Am I getting this right? Jump-back Condor Dive?

 

[Dartastic]

Some guesses from my poor knowledge of Japanese:
Makoto:
ex dash punch breaks armor
ex chop (the overhead move) has more invincible frames
uppercut buff (no detail)

OH GOD YES THE WIN, THE WINNNN!

 

[Leunam]

Abel:
command grab damage nerf

aww

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Adon:
wakeup time changed (I fucking knew it it's a bug)

wat

That kind of thing is no indication of a previous bug... nor does it tend to prove the opposite actually.

 

[USD]

Gouken's LP rush punch has no forward movement, but is faster.
His counter is now just reverse DP + Punch. LP for low body counter, MP for upper, HP is unclear (has the same animation as EX, no one is sure of the function yet).

 

[OmnipotentO]

Totally don't care much for Yun and Yang... would have much preferred Alex, Urien, Q, or Elena... whatever :/
Definitely more excited about the changes.
Also how would this change the Challenge trials lol. Would we get new ones? Aren't there Cammy ones where she has to do an instant CS to complete? Whatever... guess these don't matter much either way.

Gouken's LP rush punch has no forward movement, but is faster.
His counter is now DP + Punch. LP for low body counter, MP for upper, HP is unclear.

What the fuck!!! What brought about THIS?

ok now it just seems they just changing stuff for no reason...

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Rose lost all invincibility on Soul Satellite.
The fuck why capcom .

So Mak gets Armor Break EX Hayate, more invincibility on Oroshi, and a damage boost on Fukiage.
Fuck yes capcom .

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Thats fine, problem with this is they would have to remove mashing reversals. Playing offensives sucks when you have to second guess all your combos because the guy is just mashing crazy...

You don't have to "second guess all your combos" if you have proper execution.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Abel:
command grab damage nerf
more recovery on breathless

I called a recovery nerf on breathless but the damage nerf on his TT is bullshit unless the recovery's been improved or has magically been given better option selects on back-dashing opponents without U2, TT is already risky enough as it is.

 

[USD]

Fuerte's Ultra Spark got a damage nerf, not surprising. :lol

Troll Hawk now has a standalone EX Condor Dive (KKK), and can be done on back jumps.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

This. I'd like to see that shitstorm :lol

Lol I would love to see it too! Boy I hate that flame kick!

 

[_Xenon_]

With all these new moves / animations / characters I can see they are probably gonna pull out a retail version of SSF4A instead of DLC for them. SSF4 'forth unleashed' with new custumes & stages - $39.99 Q2 2011 BEL1EVE.

 

[sixteen-bit]

With all these new moves / animations / characters I can see they are probably gonna pull out a retail version of SSF4A instead of DLC for them. SSF4 'forth unleashed' with new custumes & stages - $39.99 Q2 2011 BEL1EVE.

:/

fingers crossed for DLC

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Gouken's LP rush punch has no forward movement, but is faster.
His counter is now DP + Punch. LP for low body counter, MP for upper, HP is unclear.

I think this might be good actually

- as of now, LP palm is not use to cover ground anyways so, this might make it safer on blocked combo, plus IS FASTER and hopefully still has invicibility

- Kongo change i think are pretty welcomed. It was a waste of commands IMO to have 6 different kongo with very little differences from each other. Plus no more accidental Tastu - low Kongo overlap

 

[gutter_trash]

Jesus, capcom, those are way harder than a 720. It's not like that ultra is too good.

the Ultra motions in SF4 world are fucking stupid IMO, they should have gone with simpler SF3 Super Art Motions and called it a day

anyway, I still feel that Honda is Ultra-Less .. only in some slim punishing situations can Honda use an Ultra lol

 

[the_log_ride]

In a perfect world, this would get the valve treatment. I'm still hopefuly for DLC, but it wouldn't be a surprise if we had to pony up money for this.

 

[USD]

fail post edit

 

[USD]

I think this might be good actually

- as of now, LP palm is not use to cover ground anyways so, this might make it safer on blocked combo, plus IS FASTER and hopefully still has invicibility

- Kongo change i think are pretty welcomed. It was a waste of commands IMO to have 6 different kongo with very little differences from each other. Plus no more accidental Tastu - low Kongo overlap

My bad on the command for Gouken's counter, it's still reverse DP motion. But yeah, it should be much easier to use now.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Totally don't care much for Yun and Yang... would have much preferred Alex, Urien, Q, or Elena... whatever :/
Definitely more excited about the changes.
Also how would this change the Challenge trials lol. Would we get new ones? Aren't there Cammy ones where she has to do an instant CS to complete? Whatever... guess these don't matter much either way.


What the fuck!!! What brought about THIS?

ok now it just seems they just changing stuff for no reason...

all of that gouken news is good news dude. having kong mapped to kicks has always been stupid as it overlapped with aa tatsu. the former however, while different doesn't sound bad at all, a faster move.

 

[entremet]

What are you doing to Guile, Capcom? At least give us a new move, jerkwads.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

now if only his Demon Flip can be useful again

 

[Imm0rt4l]

now if only his Demon Flip can be useful again

yea I miss the overhead, but demonflip is still mad usefull, particularly for sexy frame traps.

 

[entremet]

With all these new moves / animations / characters I can see they are probably gonna pull out a retail version of SSF4A instead of DLC for them. SSF4 'forth unleashed' with new custumes & stages - $39.99 Q2 2011 BEL1EVE.

SSFIV was designed to be extensible than Vanilla. Seth Killian mentioned this was the reason they couldn't just do DLC for vanilla and add all the Super content originally.

 

[FindMyFarms]

wat

That kind of thing is no indication of a previous bug... nor does it tend to prove the opposite actually.

Dunno if it's a bug or not, but Adon wakes up REALLY fast. It's bad in some matches (Ibuki gets easy ass setups on him) and good in others (gief has harder timing w/ knockdown mixup)

 

[Lost Fragment]

Dunno if it's a bug or not, but Adon wakes up REALLY fast. It's bad in some matches (Ibuki gets easy ass setups on him) and good in others (gief has harder timing w/ knockdown mixup)

Yup.

None of Makoto's meaty setups work on him either. Not like that's exclusive to Adon though.

 

[Corky]

yeah yeah ex fuikage breaks armor, how about fixing karakusa, I can literally stand inside and clip through certain characters and have ex-karakusa whiff. The hell....

 

[USD]

So what air specials are there left that still count as overheads? The only one I can think of is Mak's EX Tsurugi.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Not a Cammy player but how will this affect her game?

I'm seeing a trend here, I know TKCS can be used for building meter, looks like they are trying to get away from that (Guile changes et al).

When cammy gets in, her whole game is a 50/50 between crouch tech or block/jab punish. If the opponent is crouch teching, TKCS let's her punish and hit confirm into a 280 damage combo that gives her another setup. If they aren't teching, then she gets a free back throw which puts her into a 4 way block mixup, OR a meaty TK setup. In other words, BOTH options are scary as fuck making cammy one of the most dangerous characters in the game when she's in on you.

No one actually uses TKCS to build meter, it gets shit bar and takes about 25 to build one quadrant.

Cammy - yes, I know its not actually Tiger Knee motion. Either way, Instant Canon Strike can no longer be done. If she jumps normally it can be done no problem. EX Canon Strike can still be done by QCB, UB+2K. Many people seem to be overlooking the buff that she can combo her normals more easier now.

THIS IS STUPID. Why take out the WHAT DEFINES HER AS A CHARACTER and instead give her "easy to combo normals?" Her BnB hit confirms were already easy as fuck to do, they were all 2 frames outside of st. mp -> cr. fierce which isn't even that good! That is NOT a buff at all and Capcom clearly does not understand how cammy plays.

I really wish capcom put a competent squad on their balancing team. From everyone I've talked to in the industry, they're mediocre at best and often times just incompetent when it comes to understanding overarching changes that a tweak could implicate. They have great testers, but they don't carry as much weight with the company as they should.