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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
Hot Coldman
Banned
Wiseblade said:
Ah. I always thought they were like the Ice Climbers of Street Fighter, for some reason. (I know nothing)
Wiseblade said:
I agree with what you're saying but IMO, Fuerte's mixup game constitutes the damage nerf on his U2. I don't play Fuerte but his mixup game is so strong that having an 3 frame grab ultra that can even go through projectiles (at close range), and have it do 500 damage on top of that is a little excessive.
It's not like they nerfed the actual ultra, just decreased the damage on it, which I feel is valid. No way Fuerte needed to do 500 dmg. 450 or so yeah, but 500.. nahh.
Arpharmd B said:
that was actually a bug =). A3 guy was still beastlier. He would pretty much annihilate you after a KD (run slide to push into corner and proceed to reset combo into lvl3 super). Standing strong and fierce counter hit pretty much at will. Even with all that he was still mid tier. If you were a good guy player though it certainly didn't feel like he was mid tier.
Arpharmd B
Banned
Gr1mLock said:
I agree that Bushin is a strange throw, if you know when and how to use it, it's not bad. Not super amazing good, not bad either.
It's a lot like Rufus s.HK. Seems retarded at first and impossible to land, but shit I probably get more Ultras to connect of that than any other setup. Early on and even now to some players, that was considered the "other" launcher, the not so good one. Guy's throw is a lot like that. Unconventional, but useful and rewarding.
I agree with you about his pokes, they just don't have the range, the oomph, or quite frankly the satisfaction they did in Alpha. In Alpha 2 Guy's s.MK felt like you were kicking a dude in the mouth from a mile away, in 4 it's so freaking meh. Too much recovery, not enough range. Or something. Idk. Same with his elbows and such. They need to feel like I'm cracking a dudes head open, have lots of active frames like Fei Longs do. Instead they just feel wimpy and slow.
Speaking of GUY
LowlietL from SRK post:
Back on the net ( the previous post was Iphoned )
I played one character : GUY. Sorry fellows, the queue was far too long, so instead of just waiting like a pussy brawler, i've just watched the people playing.
Like I said earlier : Guy has his target combo ( the MP HP ) fixed. It doesn't whiff on croucher anymore. I played against a cammy player and he didn't whiff once on her crouching.
Hp Hozanto is faster than before. I saw a Guy player catch Chun's mp Kikoken with it from decent distance.
I was wrong about elbow having more hitstun, it's still the same.
Lp hozanto is safe from spd and light hawk spd.
U2 : less recovery on whiff and the distance has been fixed. ( Almost like rose's normal grab ) Ultra of choice without any hesitation.
Flip grab has been toned DOWN. The lp flip grab is the same, but the window-grab on mp hp flip grab make them more useless than before.
Damage is 120.
No faster walk speed, no invicility on Ex hozanto, no faster recovery ect Beside of the thing stated above he looks exactly the same, but he's definitvely a better fighter.
LowlietL from SRK post:
Back on the net ( the previous post was Iphoned )
I played one character : GUY. Sorry fellows, the queue was far too long, so instead of just waiting like a pussy brawler, i've just watched the people playing.
Like I said earlier : Guy has his target combo ( the MP HP ) fixed. It doesn't whiff on croucher anymore. I played against a cammy player and he didn't whiff once on her crouching.
Hp Hozanto is faster than before. I saw a Guy player catch Chun's mp Kikoken with it from decent distance.
I was wrong about elbow having more hitstun, it's still the same.
Lp hozanto is safe from spd and light hawk spd.
U2 : less recovery on whiff and the distance has been fixed. ( Almost like rose's normal grab ) Ultra of choice without any hesitation.
Flip grab has been toned DOWN. The lp flip grab is the same, but the window-grab on mp hp flip grab make them more useless than before.
Damage is 120.
No faster walk speed, no invicility on Ex hozanto, no faster recovery ect Beside of the thing stated above he looks exactly the same, but he's definitvely a better fighter.
hitsugi
Member
Gr1mLock said:
As I used to say, Guy "made sense" in the alpha series.
Counter hit combos into bushin grab corner chains into it were so sick..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceb2jTDD0Hk
Nice to hear his bushin elbow is still completely worthless. Without additional hit stun your options are pretty much hit and block / tech hit their grab. So stupid.
no invincibility on Ex hozanto oh well D: would have been nice if it went through fireballs
Arpharmd B
Banned
DIRTY-D said:
Ooooh now we're talkin. That will do wonders for him.
Shame about the elbow, it needs to do more hitstun. Hopefully they get around to that.
gutter_trash
Banned
IMO, Vega's regular ST should always be viable... Super Turbo styleAZ Greg said:FUCK YES! Vega EX ST being viable is one of the big things I wanted! Should be better as AA too! Now just give me a more viable combo into either one of his ultras and
EX FBA damage nerf is a little disappointing, but I don't see them taking too much off of it. I just hope they don't nerf: df.rh > rh st or df.rh > ex st
Also, new nerfs that warm my heart:
- Abel TT doing less dmg and U2 having more recovery
- Fuerte U2 dmg reduction
- Guy flip grab move doing less dmg
- Rose U2 being more vulnerable
the SF4 engine just wouldn't lend itself towards guy being the same as he was in A2 or 3. I think Guy can still be at least a viable character. And none of his fixes are big things. Just stuff like priority and range, and having moves combo properly (and the hitbox issues). The heartbreak being that it really seems like they just didnt even try.
Joekage said:
Fuerte's mixup game is crazy unsafe and does hardly any damage each time. Fuerte will do on average 100 damage per guess and take twice that per wrong guess. Not to mention the wide range of characters Fuerte's shenanigans simply don't work on. Then there's all the characters who gen in on Fuerte for free, and the threat of Ultra Spark is the only thing that can scare them off...
marathonfool
Member
Wow....they nerfed Guy even more. The Bushin Flip is so worthless now. The command throw does less damage than a regular throw. Elbow blockstun still sucks. Fixed Target-combo hitbox isn't a game changer at all. You can get by using standing strong -> run slide/run. It can be considered better since it's an untechable knockdown leading to neutral safe jump.
Should have been better walkspeed, more elbow blockstun, fixed target combo.
Should have been better walkspeed, more elbow blockstun, fixed target combo.
Arpharmd B
Banned
Gr1mLock said:
It's funny I almost posted the same thing. A huge part is just the engine itself.
But still, imagine this in mah SF4 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUYk32Te9yY
You know what they need to patch in 4, and this is more important than balance, new stages, or new characters. New sound effects! Gimme satisfying cracks and kicks like we used to remember from the good old days. Hell rip em straight out of Alpha if you have to. SF4 sounds like I'm punching a cardboard box.
Before I go grimlock, I will say this they certainly nailed his look for 4. Just looking at your avatar, makes me want to give the man another go in Super 4 Turbo (or whatever they end up calling it).
"God's Beard!"
Member
Come on Fei Long faster Focus Attack
Killa Sasa
Member
FindMyFarms said:
Quoting this because people who don't play Cammy don't seem to get it.
I doubt any legit Cammy player would give a shit if whiffed dive kick didn't build meter. Taking away her definition doesn't do her any good. Her normals were stupid easy to combo with already, so that point is moot.
Seeing lots of cries about how unfair it was (not necessarily here, SRK is good for the laffs), yet it could be beat by a jab. And who cares if some characters had problems with it? I'm sure that other character had traits that *gasp* gave a different character problems in certain situations.
If this actually makes it to print, there's no other answer than that they really don't know their own characters.
Case in point: "lol Gen is still good even though we took away the main part of his game because his wall dive kick is faster (but it's not safe)"
L2P, DIMPS.
Or surprise me by making the Strike +30 or something stupid on hit/block
TurtleSnatcher
Member
What?XenoRaven said:
Broken yet he is no where near top tier... ok? If he was truly broken then he would clearly be winning most of his match ups.
Likewise.. Ultra Spark did less dmg then Ultra 1 did in SF4... Somehow I don't recall the dmg cries were nearly as bad. Either way.. I dont have that big of an issue with Ultra Spark dmg being taken back down to something like Flying GigaBuster is in SSF4.. more so on the people saying his mix up game is cheap and too good yet he loses to 75% of the match ups in the game and some chars just have moves that clearly beat all ways in.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
So can we all at least agree that Sakura's new alt is top tier?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Lost Fragment said:
No because Fei Long exists.
Saw that coming. I play Guy too, FYI. If they gave him a 3 frame slide/grab Ultra that did 500 damage I wouldn't bitch if it got nerfed. An Ultra like that doesn't encourage sound strategy and smart play. It encourages "looooooooolololol 3 frame punish say goodbye to your lifebar!"
I'm not calling for Fuerte nerfs. I'd rather see him be a balanced and viable character. Tacking on a huge damage Ultra isn't the way I'd like to see it done. I doubt I'm the only person that feels that way.
I'm not calling for Fuerte nerfs. I'd rather see him be a balanced and viable character. Tacking on a huge damage Ultra isn't the way I'd like to see it done. I doubt I'm the only person that feels that way.
entrement said:
Not to bring BB into this, but if CS can patch in balance changes and new characters, there is no fucking reason SSF4 can't.
If Capcom wants another $40 they can promptly fuck off and consider me a non-consumer of their fighting games until they're nearly out of print and not being "updated" anymore.
It's 2010. Consoles and PC's are online. There is no excuse for fighting games to not embrace balance changes and new content in patches. NONE.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
TheSeks said:
Considering that to buy all the new alt costumes you have to spend $20, I'm thinking combined, Yun and Yang will be at least that much. I suspect the balance changes and such will be free, though.
XenoRaven said:
Isn't Guy's U2 a 1 frame grab ultra that does 500 damage? "looooooooolololol 1 frame punish say goodbye to your lifebar!"
But really, Ultra Spark is balanced by Fuerte having a moveset that has very low damage potential (outside of one situational and very impractical combo) but suited to creating situations to land said ultra. And it's less about encouraging mindless punishes as it's about deterring mindless jump ins.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
nahWiseblade said:
Spiderjericho
Member
Arpharmd B said:
He seems touch of deathish in Alpha 3 due to that quirky engine. I liked him A2 but he was definitely low mid tier. The transition from A1 to 2 hurt him since he wasn't able to spazz out with custom combos and redizzy.
They should restore the godliness of his standing forward poke along with making his U2 a true grab.
AZ Greg
Member
Ok, my knowledge of Cammy is limited. I only know things about her in SF4 and SF2 (And she didn't have C. Strike in this game). So when you guys say nerfing TKCS is taking away what makes her Cammy, is that referring to her character across games like the Vs. series and Alpha series? In addition to SF4, of course. Was she able to pressure ala TKCS in those games. Or are you trying to say they are taking away what makes her Cammy strictly in SF4? If it is the latter and TKCS is simply the result of SF4's input/shortcut system then I can see why they would remove it. And if that is the case, and his circumstances are the same, they should remove Sim's IAT!
GGs Dartastic.
GGs Dartastic.
Yeah. They fixed a TC that shouldnt have needed fixing in the first place. Hurray lol.marathonfool said:
Here's to hoping for frame changes for some of his moves. A c.short or c.jab with at least 3 active frames would be a good start.
As for the rose nerf, not sure how this changes anything unless she cant block right after activating or something.
Also, the damage nerf on Bushin Flib grab is way too severe for something that is so easily countered IMO.
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1396.html#id_ff7326b0Degen said:
EX Condor Dive is standalone with KKK. Can be done in a backwards jump.
DR2K
Banned
AZ Greg said:Ok, my knowledge of Cammy is limited. I only know things about her in SF4 and SF2 (And she didn't have C. Strike in this game). So when you guys say nerfing TKCS is taking away what makes her Cammy, is that referring to her character across games like the Vs. series and Alpha series? In addition to SF4, of course. Was she able to pressure ala TKCS in those games. Or are you trying to say they are taking away what makes her Cammy strictly in SF4? If it is the latter and TKCS is simply the result of SF4's input/shortcut system then I can see why they would remove it. And if that is the case, and his circumstances are the same, they should remove Sim's IAT!
Ideally Cammy is supposed to be the type of character that excels at close range, so being able to lock down a character and pressure them is her goal. TKCS is the absolute best tool for that. Unless she's given a safe drill or better normals to compensate for the loss of instant dive kicks. Which aren't broken in any way so the complete removal of them makes no sense.
hitsugi
Member
Wiseblade said:
Guy's U2 currently whiffs within what seems like regular throw range and you can jump out of it on reaction... also top it off with the fact that it has the retarded hcb x2 motion which I personally hate
I know it's already been reiterated but as a Guy player I feel the need to further drill these facts into your head.
Also, bushin grab being nerfed is hilarious given that the elbow isn't being changed at all and trades with / gets beaten cleanly by plenty of normals and cannot really be followed up unless it counter-hits.
Sim's Ultra 1 says What Up?? And I bet he is still more vulnerable during his Ultra than Rose will be.DR2K said:
Yeah that may be her goal, but if she is too overpowered at doing that lockdown then a nerf in that area is fine. It's not like she can't do it at all any more, and for characters who don't have a reversal move to escape that pressure the matchup is wayyyy too lopsided in her favor as it is. FFFFFUUUUUUU CAMMY!DR2K said:
Just read that Abel's rolls have more recovery, and that Gief's Ultra 1 is no longer 0 frame. I am loving every single tweak so far, drinking with savor the bitter tears that have been flowing, and I eagerly await the nerf stick smacking Rufus in his fat fucking head.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Satyamdas said:
What? Why would they ever consider fucking with his mix-ups/resets and his ability to roll through certain attacks and punish as balancing anything? Unless my step-kick becomes the highest priority move in the game and has three time the reach I'm not going to be happy. Screw people for automatically thinking Abel was top-tier due to breathless which is easy as fuck to get out of for most of the cast by the way
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Seriously, Sakura's alt needs a nerf. Too many blossoms. No other character has anywhere near the amount of blossoms on any of their costumes. WTF is Ono thinking?
Dude his rolls recover so quickly that he can TT you before you can regular throw him out of them all the time. I know you aren't happy about the damage nerf to TT but come on, man! That shit does ridiculous damage along with being crazy easy to land after coming out of a roll. If anything they need to add about 2 or 3 frames to TT startup.
Spiderjericho
Member
A lot of salt in this thread. But like Dementia stated in his cute pic, no one is safe from the "tweaks." I think it'll make for an interesting game in the final product. I hope the bottom tier characters move up.
AZ Greg
Member
More Vega info:
Not sure what the last part means, but hopefully this means ultra setups! At worst, it should mean I can guess with an EX ST during pressure and make it safe with a FADC.
I assume they are talking about his roll. MP version being as fast as LP version is great. Not being able to combo it off of jab isn't that big of a deal imo.
I'm assuming this is a nerf and I can now only grab someone at or below the knees? Wishful thinking is that Vega can only be hit out of it from below the knees!
Sorta sucks. I don't backdash that much though.
Not sure what the last part means, but hopefully this means ultra setups!
At worst, it should mean I can guess with an EX ST during pressure and make it safe with a FADC.I assume they are talking about his roll. MP version being as fast as LP version is great. Not being able to combo it off of jab isn't that big of a deal imo.
I'm assuming this is a nerf and I can now only grab someone at or below the knees? Wishful thinking is that Vega can only be hit out of it from below the knees!
Sorta sucks. I don't backdash that much though.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Satyamdas said:Dude his rolls recover so quickly that he can TT you before you can regular throw him out of them all the time. I know you aren't happy about the damage nerf to TT but come on, man! That shit does ridiculous damage along with being crazy easy to land after coming out of a roll. If anything they need to add about 2 or 3 frames to TT startup.
I have to disagree, if you see a role, are in a position where you can punish it and don't it's your own fault given it's already vulnerable to grabs and already has recovery. Role into grab isn't even a viable strategy outside of mix-ups and punishes because of that and this could potentially fuck up his mix-ups and punishes. Also I don't think TT is overpowered at all due to the risk he takes throwing it out and with it being the least powerful, slowest damage based command grab already. Would it kill them just to fix his hitboxes so his BnB will work on crouching opponents and on the entire cast? :lol
Funny at some of the changes from Vanilla to Super being undone. Apparently, the hitboxes on both of Gief's lariats got improved, and as mentioned before, Sagat got a slight damage boost on deep Uppers.
And then there's Balrog, who's apparently been the same character the whole time. The only listed change is that he's U2 is now double HCB, but since no one uses Dirty Bull anyway, it changes absolutely nothing whatsoever. :lol
And then there's Balrog, who's apparently been the same character the whole time. The only listed change is that he's U2 is now double HCB, but since no one uses Dirty Bull anyway, it changes absolutely nothing whatsoever. :lol
From the original posting, it reads like you can't scarlet terror FADC whatever.AZ Greg said:More Vega info:
Not sure what the last part means, but hopefully this means ultra setups!
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I think they should add Semi-Evil Ryu to the game. He slings meth, but he draws the line at selling to kids.
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