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[Wandering Leopard]

I'm hyped up for the new Seth

It's good they're trying to stop run away tactics but I recently faced a Vega like that and it was so damn hard to do anything once he had the life lead especially when walking forward at the wrong time means you eat that ex flying kick of his.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Loketests, ya'll. The balance changes are interesting, but not worth arguing about as seriously as some people have for the last 10 pages 'cause there was all kinds of crazy shit in the vanilla loketests that didn't make it to the final build (and probably were never intended to).

 

[Satyamdas]

Ok, does Ibuki have some sort of abnormal range on her grab so is Makoto just super grabbable? My sweeps, c-mps, and f-mp were getting grabbed like crazy last night.

Ibuki has a command throw that will grab any outstretched limb from an opponent. Some Ibukis will start a round with that grab and if Dhalsim sticks a limb out he is grabbed from across the screen. Pretty awesome move.

 

[ElFly]

Think so.. taking things away and making things that players can already do "easier" is so asinine though

I rarely run into Gens online. And does he even show up in tourneys?

So I guess that people can't do these moves right now.

Did you guys see the latest report on the website that isn't supposed to get info:

http://shoryuken.com/content/super-...location-test-how-do-players-feel-day-2-1740/

Looks like the green hand not knocking down is dangerous. Guile's SB does build meter. And Seth is like a whole new character.

Fuck. They will probably nerf zangief more now that a guy was winning with him too much.

 

[hitsugi]

I rarely run into Gens online. And does he even show up in tourneys?

So I guess that people can't do these moves right now.

I was mostly referring to Cammy. People that like and play Cammy should be able to do her combos consistently by now.. one framers or not. For those of us that can, making it "easier" to link her normals does nothing

 

[hertog]

Again, please nerf the fuck out of Ryu's so I don't spend 80% of the time battling them online.....

 

["God's Beard!"]

Again, please nerf the fuck out of Ryu's so I don't spend 80% of the time battling them online.....

If Ryu was the worst character in the game, he would still be the most popular.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Ok, does Ibuki have some sort of abnormal range on her grab so is Makoto just super grabbable? My sweeps, c-mps, and f-mp were getting grabbed like crazy last night.

Her command grab? (which is not really a grab, you can block it), cuz it beats alot of hit attacks

 

[hertog]

If Ryu was the worst character in the game, he would still be the most popular.

I hate it. I enjoy every battle, except against Ken/Ryu/Akuma, it's like going through the motions.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Raida is such a godlike counter.

 

[sixteen-bit]

If Ryu was the worst character in the game, he would still be the most popular.

no ken would

 

[ElFly]

If Ryu was the worst character in the game, he would still be the most popular.

Dunno, seems like everyone played Ken in 3S and Ryu was quickly forgotten.

 

[bigmit3737]

They really need to fix Ryu's DP. I keep trading with it all the time.

 

[sixteen-bit]

They really need to fix Ryu's DP. I keep trading with it all the time.

i think that is how they fixed it

 

[ElFly]

In a perfect world, this would get the valve treatment. I'm still hopefuly for DLC, but it wouldn't be a surprise if we had to pony up money for this.

The gameplay changes can't be DLC, because it would split the userbase in two. If it's anything, it will be a free forced patch for online play.

Now, Yun and Yang could be DLC.

 

[bigmit3737]

i think that is how they fixed it

:lol :lol

Never played Vanilla...so if that's true..that sucks.

 

[Spiderjericho]

I'd prefer to pay one DLC than have to pay an ass load for each piece. Gameplay, characters, etc.

And Capcom used up their free DLC with the tournament mode DLC (or whatever it was called). So we have to pay.

 

[hitsugi]

I'd prefer to pay one DLC than have to pay an ass load for each piece. Gameplay, characters, etc.

And Capcom used up their free DLC with the tournament mode DLC (or whatever it was called). So we have to pay.

You will pay for characters, and their costumes, and perhaps backgrounds if they feel like it.

..then you will resume paying for costumes.

 

[Spiderjericho]

You will pay for characters, and their costumes, and perhaps backgrounds if they feel like it.

..then you will resume paying for costumes.

Crapcom

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I'd prefer to pay one DLC than have to pay an ass load for each piece. Gameplay, characters, etc.

And Capcom used up their free DLC with the tournament mode DLC (or whatever it was called). So we have to pay.

They should just make it a pay patch on 360 per MS's requirements, but make the patch be free on PSN and just pay for the extra characters.

Seriously, though, MS's free patch policy is stupid as hell.

 

[AZ Greg]

Loketests, ya'll. The balance changes are interesting, but not worth arguing about as seriously as some people have for the last 10 pages 'cause there was all kinds of crazy shit in the vanilla loketests that didn't make it to the final build (and probably were never intended to).

This is definitely true and I'm sure not all of this stuff will stick exactly. But you also have to remember that this is a test for what is basically the 4th version of the game. I'm sure the team knows exactly what it wants to tackle in comparison to where they were when they were doing tests for vanilla arcade. And if you look at a lot of these changes, you can understand their mindset and see what they're trying to do.

While I see damage numbers and such changing from test to test before launch, I don't expect them to give Cammy non-ex TKCS back or Seth j.HP. And I don't expect them to change their stance on significant damage nerfs like Abel TT, Fuerte U2, Guy grab move, etc...

 

[the_log_ride]

Ok as a Ryu player I say they should increase recovery on Sim's st. HP because it's a bad match up for my character. His most damaging stretchy limb shouldn't be so easily abused, especially against his best match ups. Make it as bad as Seth's far st. HP and we can call it a day.

:lol

Reading your follow up posts, I'm not sure if you're serious or playing a part. Damn the internet for making things hard to read into.

 

[DR2K]

If they do take it out, then obviously they don't want her being played that way. Same thing goes for Gens mk into hands as stupid as it may have been.

Yeah that's why she has trails that rely on iCS.

 

[LakeEarth]

:lol :lol

Never played Vanilla...so if that's true..that sucks.

He used to be able to ultra after that trade, so its not so bad.

 

[Spiderjericho]

Yeah that's why she has trails that rely on iCS.

Kind of like the RSF trial. Ha, ha. So shameless but it turns out to be a useful tool.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Alright, I need help with a few things:

-I hate Adon. Someone teach me how to fight that fucker.

-I have serious execution problems with things that seem simple, but I just can't seem to do consistently. Pretty much anything that requires me to do qcf x 2 on the left side of the stick. Example: I can do Viper's fierce thunder knuckle fadc ultra juggle in the right corner, but damned if I can do it on the left. I can also sjc her normals into ultra when she's facing right no problem, but if I try when she's facing left, I hardly ever pull it off. I also have problems with Ryu's fadc ultra when facing left, Sakura's juggle into U1 when she's facing right, etc.

Doesn't seem like anything I'm doing to help is working. Grinding it out in training, changing the way I hold the stick, etc. I do have some slight arthritis, so maybe that's hindering me. I dunno.

This is definitely true and I'm sure not all of this stuff will stick exactly. But you also have to remember that this is a test for what is basically the 4th version of the game. I'm sure the team knows exactly what it wants to tackle in comparison to where they were when they were doing tests for vanilla arcade. And if you look at a lot of these changes, you can understand their mindset and see what they're trying to do.

While I see damage numbers and such changing from test to test before launch, I don't expect them to give Cammy non-ex TKCS back or Seth j.HP. And I don't expect them to change their stance on significant damage nerfs like Abel TT, Fuerte U2, Guy grab move, etc...

I'll be shocked if even half of this stuff makes it to the final build. Especially Cammy's dive kick nerf. At the very least, I figure they'll make the height requirement a little bit lower so that it's actually useful for nailing crouch techs, but if blocked, leaves her at a pretty heavy frame disadvantage.

Either way, though, even if it stays like it is now for the final build, for some reason I can't put my finger on, it doesn't really bother me a ton.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Yeah that's why she has trails that rely on iCS.

If they take it out then they obviously they don't want you using it, or don't like some of the applications it's used.


You want to tell me that if they take away Seths arms its for shits and giggles? No, it's because someone at capcom doesn't like it, for better or worse. Or his style isn't conducive to the type of game they want to create, or some of the new characters will lack tools to get in on him. Seriously, who knows.


Do I think taking out tkcs is stupid? yea, but I'm not in a position to judge a game I haven't played and is probably a little ways off. Hell, we don't even know if she will lose tkcs.

 

[def sim]

They should just make it a pay patch on 360 per MS's requirements, but make the patch be free on PSN and just pay for the extra characters.

Seriously, though, MS's free patch policy is stupid as hell.

Games get multiple updates on 360 all the time without us having to pay for it. Seriously, duders knowing about XBL policies make people think the silliest things.

If anything, we'd have to pay for Yun and Yang but the balance fixes will be free.

 

[haunts]

I'll be shocked if even half of this stuff makes it to the final build.

Yeah, same here. Sounds like Capcom is just going willy nilly on the changes and seeing what sticks. Part of me feels like they did this just to troll 2ch and the rest of the internet.

 

[Threi]

He used to be able to ultra after that trade, so its not so bad.

he still can, if it's an autocorrect dp trade

so mash harder kids

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Games get multiple updates on 360 all the time without us having to pay for it. Seriously, duders knowing about XBL policies make people think the silliest things.

If anything, we'd have to pay for Yun and Yang but the balance fixes will be free.

I'm not saying pubs don't give them free all the time, but it's been made pretty clear by anyone who has spoken about it that any free patches or DLC beyond the initial freebie MS gives them either needs to be paid content (MS gets money) or paid for by the publisher (MS gets money).

 

[MiniBossBattle]

please keep bison's ultra 2 to a qcfx2 motion. I hate to just hold downback to threaten the ultra. just makes me want to turtle.

 

[haunts]

please keep bison's ultra 2 to a qcfx2 motion. I hate to just hold downback to threaten the ultra. just makes me want to turtle.

makes me wanna dougie

 

[the_log_ride]

Was feelin' nostalgic so I played some Vanilla today. Wasn't too hard to get some matches, either.

Played against a decent Sagat, and was reminded of how damaging he was. I fought tooth and nail for that victory.

Some match notes:
- I audibly gasped when I got hit with a TU :lol (LOOK AT THE DAMAGE)
- Dat pressure from being able to cancel st.LK into knees
- They really did improve 'Sim's drills
- I didn't believe it at first, but they did shorten the distance of st.HP

 

[arstal]

They thought American tournament gen players performed mk.hands using turbo. Feedback is definitely JP only.

The better solution would have been easing buttonmash inputs. That's the big problem with SF4 in general- they're trying to make what should be difficult easy, and what should be easy difficult.

 

[the_log_ride]

The better solution would have been easing buttonmash inputs. That's the big problem with SF4 in general- they're trying to make what should be difficult easy, and what should be easy difficult.

Remember when there was talk that they reduced input on hhs from 5 to 4 inputs? There were people who were bitching and moaning about that, saying that it would make it brain dead for everyone to do it. I swear, you can't please anyone with this shit

 

[def sim]

I'm not saying pubs don't give them free all the time, but it's been made pretty clear by anyone who has spoken about it that any free patches or DLC beyond the initial freebie MS gives them either needs to be paid content (MS gets money) or paid for by the publisher (MS gets money).

Yes, but that won't result in us having to pay for balance fixes. Capcom will have to pay to upload it, it has nothing to do with us.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Alright, I need help with a few things:

-I hate Adon. Someone teach me how to fight that fucker.

-I have serious execution problems with things that seem simple, but I just can't seem to do consistently. Pretty much anything that requires me to do qcf x 2 on the left side of the stick. Example: I can do Viper's fierce thunder knuckle fadc ultra juggle in the right corner, but damned if I can do it on the left. I can also sjc her normals into ultra when she's facing right no problem, but if I try when she's facing left, I hardly ever pull it off. I also have problems with Ryu's fadc ultra when facing left, Sakura's juggle into U1 when she's facing right, etc.

Doesn't seem like anything I'm doing to help is working. Grinding it out in training, changing the way I hold the stick, etc. I do have some slight arthritis, so maybe that's hindering me. I dunno.

I have trouble facing the left side too(both on stick and pad). I can do instant air((insert move here)) easy facing right, but very inconsistent facing left.

As for the muay thai prince, this match to me comes down to controlling Jaguar Kick. I I listen and look for it and punish/or block appropriately(cr.MK, n.Jump HK/MK/Axe Kick, Fukiage, exOroshi). With most Adon users in my experience, you punish/trade with JagKick, they start making bad decisions. Watch out for jump ins JagKicks, though to read but mp. Fukiage that ass.

 

[Hitokage]

Remember when there was talk that they reduced input on hhs from 5 to 4 inputs? There were people who were bitching and moaning about that, saying that it would make it brain dead for everyone to do it. I swear, you can't please anyone with this shit

The problem with that is that it messes up the slide technique.

 

[arstal]

Remember when there was talk that they reduced input on hhs from 5 to 4 inputs? There were people who were bitching and moaning about that, saying that it would make it brain dead for everyone to do it. I swear, you can't please anyone with this shit

Those people complaining about it were the tiny minority of players that can do it easily. They want the simple things hard so they can get a brainless advantage. The more non-intuitive a game is with its input structures and combos, the more these types benefit.

SF4 series is very non-intuitive in its execution. Without access to outside information , it would be real hard to figure a lot of SF4's rules out naturally.

The problem with that is that it messes up the slide technique.

That wouldn't be a problem if people could do it naturally.

 

[APZonerunner]

MS i believe give publishers 3 'title updates' for free, so in theory they should be able to update SSFIV no problem.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Those people complaining about it were the tiny minority of players that can do it easily. They want the simple things hard so they can get a brainless advantage. The more non-intuitive a game is with its input structures and combos, the more these types benefit.

This is utter nonsense. I'd much rather have the input be difficult as there's a greater chance that a player will mess it up under the pressure of competitive play, it means there's a level of risk to something that makes Honda's jabs fucking Godlike. It makes no fucking sense to make piano-tapping easier if the game still includes any form of tricky execution through links, hell why not make the reversal time even more lenient while you're at it? :lol

Also anybody can learn how to piano-tap with enough practice, and as was mentioned earlier it will screw things up for people who can't be arsed to learn and just slide anyway because it's impossible to get from jab to fierce with just 4 inputs.

As for people who benefit from practicing their inputs, that's kind of the point. What you're asking for is a game which will auto-combo after you hit a normal, I mean why even make a player need to hit confirm given the practice that would take? Which is something SF4 isn't.

(Also didn't the updates say that jab hands is harder now? Which means Capcom agrees with me... which means I'm probably wrong on this )

 

[MiniBossBattle]

This is utter nonsense. I'd much rather have the input be difficult as there's a greater chance that a player will mess it up under the pressure of competitive play, it means there's a level of risk to something that makes Honda's jabs fucking Godlike. It makes no fucking sense to make piano-tapping easier if the game still includes any form of tricky execution through links, hell why not make the reversal time even more lenient while you're at it? :lol

Also anybody can learn how to piano-tap with enough practice, and as was mentioned earlier it will screw things up for people who can't be arsed to learn and just slide anyway because it's impossible to get from jab to fierce with just 4 inputs.

As for people who benefit from practicing their inputs, that's kind of the point. What you're asking for is a game which will auto-combo after you hit a normal, I mean why even make a player need to hit confirm given the practice that would take? Which is something SF4 isn't.

(Also didn't the updates say that jab hands is harder now? Which means Capcom agrees with me... which means I'm probably wrong on this )

I think jab hands is hard....

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think jab hands is hard....

I'm not saying it's not hard, it's fucking hard to do, I still mess it up the majority of times I try it in matches if I don't slide; but anybody can do it with enough practice. The fact that doing it leads to huge damage on hit from a simple jab justifies it's difficult input.

 

[dragonballjoseph]

I'll be shocked if even half of this stuff makes it to the final build. Especially Cammy's dive kick nerf. At the very least, I figure they'll make the height requirement a little bit lower so that it's actually useful for nailing crouch techs, but if blocked, leaves her at a pretty heavy frame disadvantage.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. But not to bad of an advantage.

 

[Grifter]

Alright, I need help with a few things:

-I hate Adon. Someone teach me how to fight that fucker.

My Adon's trash but I can get on XBL and help on his gimmicks (hint: they're braindead). Here's a vid my buddy shot of my Adon on "screw-around with new alts" night - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_gpDkoCLL0&feature=player_embedded

The basic thing I tell friends (besides the obvious on his cross-up games) is to move around so that you block jaguar kick early (leaves him at disadvantage) or make him whiff. Then it's more of a guessing-game for which JK for him to use at ranges if you're likely to step/dash into a bad range. If you block JK at a sweet-spot, block or run away.

Good Adons rarely if ever do Jaguar Toof.

Remember that you CAN focus the air JK and destroy him for it.

 

[Kadey]

The harder to do things, the better. There has to be a sense of accomplishment. More one frame links, more difficult commands, and add another bar. Just get rid of shortcuts.

 

[FindMyFarms]

This is complete nonsense and you know it, she can do the dive kick low enough and meaty enough that his arm never even extends and he's already hit. Seriously dude, Sim's st. jab beats dive kick every time? Sim NEVER too slow? LOL

Not meaty divekick obviously, st. jab doesn't beat anything meaty, please give me a little more credit than that. Divekick beats throw techs, and throw beats block, that's cammy's 50/50. After one divekick, if you think the cammy is going to do ANOTHER divekick to try and punish a throwtech, EVERY character in the game can stop that second divekick with a cr. or st. jab. If you guessed right you reset the situation back to neutral with you at a slight advantage and you can backdash/teleport out etc. etc.

Do I think that matchup is 7-3? Yes, but dhalsim still has OPTIONS when cammy's in to stop her from just killing him.

Nonsense. TKCS = Cammy's only option ever. Gotcha. I guarantee Sako is shrugging his shoulders at this news like, "Whatever". He will still beast on people with this new F-Tier Cammy, because he is not a 1-trick pony. Which I am not claiming that guys in this thread are, but by their response so far it makes them look like one-dimensional players relying on a crutch. Funny how I have more faith that Cammy players can still beast with her even with this nerf, than they do!!

I think sako is damn near top tier, but I guarantee you if I played his non-tkcs cammy I'd destroy him.

thats my point, if that one tool the only thing worth going for 80% of the time, IMO thats bad. No not bad as an "not tournament viable" or "i cant win", but just boring design.

So did you just denounce 99% of all good fighting game characters?? :lol :lol

It's not that you USE the tool 80% of the time, it's that the tool is the primary thing that DEFINES the character. Having said tool opens up the rest of the character's game. Zangief's command grab makes people want to jump away, so that lets him punish them w/ cr. jab into hit confirm combo into ex green hand knockdown and reset of the vortex.

So in that sense, divekick isn't just something you "go for" (as you quoted it), it just gives cammy her mixup when she's close. People fear her mixup when she's in close so it makes her OS cr. mk xx drill scary and opens up her footsie drill. It makes people scared to throw tech so she gets backthrows into the 4 way mixup. People try to escape the mixup at all costs and do dumb shit like jumping away on wakeup which lets her use hit confirmable meaty normals like st. mp or fp to reset the situation. So it's not that the divekick is just good, it opens up her game because of the threat of her mixup. Lastly, her divekick mixup has a bunch of different components, by no means is it boring.

Just so you know, while I may be using Cammy in this scenario, I'm also explaining fighting game characters as a whole starting from a basic design standpoint.

 

[qcf x2]

Alright, I need help with a few things:

-I hate Adon. Someone teach me how to fight that fucker.

-I have serious execution problems with things that seem simple, but I just can't seem to do consistently. Pretty much anything that requires me to do qcf x 2 on the left side of the stick. Example: I can do Viper's fierce thunder knuckle fadc ultra juggle in the right corner, but damned if I can do it on the left. I can also sjc her normals into ultra when she's facing right no problem, but if I try when she's facing left, I hardly ever pull it off. I also have problems with Ryu's fadc ultra when facing left, Sakura's juggle into U1 when she's facing right, etc.

Doesn't seem like anything I'm doing to help is working. Grinding it out in training, changing the way I hold the stick, etc. I do have some slight arthritis, so maybe that's hindering me. I dunno.



I'll be shocked if even half of this stuff makes it to the final build. Especially Cammy's dive kick nerf. At the very least, I figure they'll make the height requirement a little bit lower so that it's actually useful for nailing crouch techs, but if blocked, leaves her at a pretty heavy frame disadvantage.

Either way, though, even if it stays like it is now for the final build, for some reason I can't put my finger on, it doesn't really bother me a ton.

For your execution issues, the answer is the obvious/boring one - training mode with input display on.

As for Adon, I think st Mp and cr Mk stuff everything he has. Make sure you punish jaguar knee hard. I'm an Ultra2 supporter, and in this matchup I think if he does a Jaguar tooth, your far U2 should hit him regardless of what distance he uses. I think.

 

[FindMyFarms]

I'm not saying it's not hard, it's fucking hard to do, I still mess it up the majority of times I try it in matches if I don't slide; but anybody can do it with enough practice. The fact that doing it leads to huge damage on hit from a simple jab justifies it's difficult input.

My roommate plays honda, he's 100% on jab to hands. It makes it scary as fuck to approach a crouching honda knowing that if you get hit by a jab you're going to eat 450 :/