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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!

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U

USD

Member
I really hope Acqua makes it through to the next round. No one wants to see Copperdevu's Cammy or Momofree's lukewarm Ken.
Threi said:
a bit late but UGH @ the daigo/mago match.

i'm thoroughly disgusted.
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I really wanted Mago to win over Turtlehara, would have been so satisfying to see Daigo lose there.
 
B

bigmit3737

Member
USD said:
Daigo/Mochi starts at 39:00 exactly:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9833505

Daigo/Mago is marked in this video (52:00):

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9808103
Click to expand...


Thanks for this (thank you to the other poster as well who listed the times).


That Mochi Daigo fight was sick. Both parties seemed to have stepped up their game since the last God's Garden. The spacing in the first 2 matches for Ryu was amazing..and then Mochi really stepped his zoning in the next two matches.
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
anotheriori said:
Kindevu bodied by Mochi.. doesn't know that match.
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I see this sentiment repeated all the time and it really puzzles me. When you are watching matches at this high of a level, it's pretty much guaranteed that the guys playing have been at it since SF2: The World Warriors, and excelled at many if not all of the games in between that and SSF4. These guys know everything there is to know about every character in the game.

Kindevu played vanilla SF4 to death, so he knows how Dhalsim works in the game. He is playing Cammy at a level above 95% of the SF population, so he obviously knows how she works in the game. So to hear the excuse (or reasoning or whatever) that "he doesn't know the matchup" after a loss, doesn't ring true to me at all.

A week or two after the game is out, and everyone is still figuring out nuances to their character and others? Sure, a little ignorance might cost you a couple matches. But console SF4 is going on 2 years old now, Cammy and Dhalsim were both there, and I'd bet just about anything that Kindevu did not start playing Cammy a week ago. From the way Kindevu was playing I'd say he is quite familiar with the match, and simply got outplayed by Mochi.

The same thing was said when Justin lost to Gamerbee at EVO. "Oh, he is just unfamiliar with Adon, doesn't know the match". I read this as someone who doesn't really know what they're watching and is oversimplifying things grossly, and in the process denigrating the skills and knowledge of both Justin/Gamerbee, or Kindevu/Mochi or whoever. The EVO match came down to the last round of the 3rd set, and Gamerbee BARELY edged out a victory. So if Justin wins, that whole "lost cause he doesn't know the matchup" sentiment is nonexistent, but since he did lose it gets trotted out and repeated ad nauseum. Why is it not likely that they DO know the matchup, and Mochi & Gamerbee simply played better than their opponents?

It's almost as if saying "He got outplayed" is somehow a slap in the face to a player who lost or might be viewed as "hating" on the loser or "dickriding" the winner, so instead of that we have this weird PC-sounding cliche to cling to so that no feelings are potentially hurt. It really comes off to me as an excuse, especially since these players are the world's best and to believe that they lack basic knowledge of a certain matchup is asinine at best. Which is why when I heard Ryan Hart say the exact same thing after he lost to Luffy I was really surprised. It's usually the viewers who parrot this and not the players. He literally said he didn't know how to fight Rose and that he didn't lose because he was outplayed or anything like that, just lost due to ignorance. It reeks of excuse-making and bullshit imo, whether a player says it or a viewer.

And I don't mean to single you out about it since I see this repeated all the time. I just happened to be reading the thread and saw your post minutes after seeing the same thing said in a stream chat, so I decided to write a novel about it. Sorry for the novel.
 
hitsugi

hitsugi

Member
Tiger uppercut said:
Seeing allot of interesting stuff from the players, truly gdlk.

Sucks that Uryo lost to Tonpy. :/
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Mirrors suck. Time and time again, it seems like the pick to win a mirror match always loses.

Kind of disappointed at the daigo v sako sweep.. Maybe that's why daigo picked up cammy for a while. Also sako handed a round to mago D: but that was an impressive showing of Fei as usual.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
Satyamdas said:
The same thing was said when Justin lost to Gamerbee at EVO. "Oh, he is just unfamiliar with Adon, doesn't know the match". I read this as someone who doesn't really know what they're watching and is oversimplifying things grossly, and in the process denigrating the skills and knowledge of both Justin/Gamerbee, or Kindevu/Mochi or whoever. The EVO match came down to the last round of the 3rd set, and Gamerbee BARELY edged out a victory. So if Justin wins, that whole "lost cause he doesn't know the matchup" sentiment is nonexistent, but since he did lose it gets trotted out and repeated ad nauseum. Why is it not likely that they DO know the matchup, and Mochi & Gamerbee simply played better than their opponents?
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Who in America played Adon at a respectable enough level for Justin to be able to "learn" the match up? People lose to unfamiliar characters on the time simply because they aren't able to get experience from competent players of these characters. Training mode helps you get familiar with their attacks but it won't show you how to deal with gimmicks and setups. I for one still don't really know how to fight Gen.

That said, the Kendevu vs Mochi match was most likely not an example of poor matchup experience.
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
cHaotix8 said:
Who in America played Adon at a respectable enough level for Justin to be able to "learn" the match up? People lose to unfamiliar characters on the time simply because they aren't able to get experience from competent players of these characters. Training mode helps you get familiar with their attacks but it won't show you how to deal with gimmicks and setups. I for one still don't really know how to fight Gen.

That said, the Kendevu vs Mochi match was most likely not an example of poor matchup experience.
Click to expand...
So Justin was just blindsided by all these unfamiliar Adon tricks and techniques? Gamerbee pulled out things Justin was unaware existed in SSF4?

We aren't talking about some kid whose first fighting game is SSF4 who just walked in off the street to fight Gamerbee. This is Justin freaking Wong. The kid knows his fighters. Adon is not a new character to SF. The only thing foreign to him was Gamerbee's particular style of play, and by the end of the set I'd say Justin had already adapted very well to Gamerbee. He's not some new booty that needs 6 months or a year to get a handle on things in SF.

It's an excuse where none is needed. Justin got outplayed, plain and simple. The fact it went to 3 matches, the final round and basically the final hit tells me that Justin knows how to deal with and beat not just any Adon, but the best Adon on the planet, and he simply was outplayed in that set. Any other Adon would likely get slaughtered by Justin, so what would you say if Justin won that match? Still doesn't know it? That argument might hold weight if Justin was swept 2-0 by Gamerbee without winning a round and getting perfected left and right, but that's not what happened.
 
N

n3ss

aka acr0nym
God's Beard said:
Yep. I got so mad when they dropped ESP Galuda 2 for Cabela.
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I wonder if we ever played... I attended SFSU for a bit. However, I'v never seen Crackfiend there, only played him at keystone.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
n3ss said:
I wonder if we ever played... I attended SFSU for a bit. However, I'v never seen Crackfiend there, only played him at keystone.
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To be honest, I'm not 100% it was even crackfiend. I looked up some videos of SFSU tournaments later on, and Crackfiend looked exactly like the guy that used to beat me.

When I was at State, I was still really bad at 2d fighting games. I had no real philosophy for approaching them, and I didn't know any combos or system knowledge for 3s. I just kept running it back as long as I had quarters, I certainly didn't use srk or gamefaqs or anything like that. I didn't even talk to the other players.

I played a shit ton of VF5, though.

What year were you there? I was only there 07/08, then I changed majors and moved back to central to finish some GEs and figure shit out before I move to Vegas.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
Kadey said:
You did good Mochi. Until this.

Movie_NEW.gif
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Daigo is still the reigning god
 
M

marathonfool

Member
I just watched Sako/Daigo match. That has to be demoralizing when you can't get in. Fireballs 3/4 screen, low forwards/red fireball at sweep distance, and tatsucopter out of the corner. I would have rage quit.
 
K

Killa Sasa

Member
I can't find a link to Daigo-Sako. Last one on eventhubs ends with Sako-Acqua?

edit: neeeeeeeeeeeever mind, stupid eventhubs making me actually have to look -_-;
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
I'm exhausted. Just caught up to day two of GGO2.

I have to say. As far as events go, it's awesome the KSK and crew coordinated it and streamed it for everyone to see. It's probably the biggest gathering of SF skill in the world. And we got to see numerous dream matches (Daigo vs. everyone, Mago vs. everyone, Sako vs. everyone). The level of skill displayed was unparalleled. I was in awe of Aqua's Ibuki vortex, Momochi's Ken (his FADCs and combos were god like), Daigo's patience and footsies, Mago's footsies and combos, etc.

As much as people hate, Daigo is probably the best player right now. His level of patience, footsies/spacing, combos is great.

Mago also impressed with his Fei Long. I'd feel like I was held back by the character but he makes it work.

I can't believe there's a tournament after the qualifies. This would be enough but now they're taking it to the next level with the FT10.

This last week and a half has given us a lot of top-level Japanese play (GGO w Marn, GGO2, SBO and NSB).

Now, I need to go drink some water and stretch.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Spiderjericho said:
Mago also impressed with his Fei Long. I'd feel like I was held back by the character but he makes it work.
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Fei Long is a really dominant character. Rekkas are among the best pokes in the game, he has incredibly useful normals, a great reversal and an anti-fireball special. Great tick-throw setups and a counter that changes matchups when you have top-level reaction time. He may not have huge combos, but he certainly doesn't have a real weakness like many other characters.

Fei Long, Cammy, Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Balrog Chun Li and Guile are probably the best characters because they don't have major matchup disparities.
 
K

KajunW

Member
Spiderjericho said:
As much as people hate, Daigo is probably the best player right now. His level of patience, footsies/spacing, combos is great.

...

I can't believe there's a tournament after the qualifies. This would be enough but now they're taking it to the next level with the FT10.

...
Click to expand...

It's weird though, you hear stories about the consensus amongst Japanese players being that Mago is the best player. Seems to be confirmed by Tokido, Nemo and Kindevu in this recent interview. This seems to be implied as well by those US players that have stayed over in Japan for a while. In terms of tournament results, Mago has been the most consistent (in SBO, NSB, TRF, GG) for sure. But in longer series matches, Daigo wins against most, if not all top players. This has been the case for a while now (see miscellaneous Kumite matches). I wonder if they have other reasons than the tournament results, for thinking Mago is the best.

I think they should hold a Japanese nationals every year, using this format. So much better than that random single elimination stuff, or even double elimination. Next time, include other great players like Nuki, Shiro, Iyo, Bonchan, Ojisanboy, Akimo, Maeda Taison etc. Make multiple round robins, if necessary.
 
S

Spiderjericho

Member
Mago is definitely the 2Dgod. I definitely watched all of his matches. From what Justin said last year after coming back from SBO (probably SFpodcast), there's definitely parity between a lot of the Japanese players. It's pretty random but the "god's" are all capable of winning tournaments.

I wish Uryo, Mago, Kindevu w Rufus and others would come to the U.S. I'm kind of tired of seeing Daigo/Ryu.
 
G

gutabo

Member
CaptainMintMan said:
Can we come to the census that, in fact, all mirror matches suck?
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Nah, only fireball wars(i.e. guile or sagat among others) and staring contests(i.e. honda, blanka among others) are boring. Makoto mirrors are fun!
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Busaiku said:
Yeah, I really don't like hearing Makoto.
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Japanese voices bro, Japanese voices.
 
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