Oh whoops, shoulda let me know! I rarely use Rose nowadays, only really in the ranbats. Looking for that next character to jump to next..
If I were to critique your game I'd say to throw in some C.LK's instead of overhead all the time on opponent wake ups. Sets up a nice 50/50. Sometimes the overheads were a bit too late too, as I was able to throw you out of them. GGs though!
Definitely, same goes for the meaty f+FP I toss out. I get in the habit of tossing too many overheads when I fight Greg because he uses a charge character and it seems to work pretty well. My bad wakeup timing's part of the reason I don't use cLK too often. I know going straight for the scoop can be punished, but it's just to hold me off until I'm more confident. I can do the clk, cLP, RH combos so I should toss it out more. No sense wasting all that practice.
The way they're handling the costumes is obviously not ideal from a consumer standpoint, but I look at it two ways:
1.) Of all the things they could have nickel and dimed us with in terms of DLC, alternative costumes probably have the least impact on the overall fighting game experience. A lot of times with DLC arguments you hear "Well if you don't like it (pricing) then don't buy it!" But in a lot of cases that is easier said than done since the complete experience will sometimes require the DLC. Not in this case thought as these are nothing more than fluff. I haven't bought one alternative costume and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
To be fair I don't like any of my main's alts so I can just enjoy the ones I do like whenever I play someone who has bought them for their character.
Like SJ, I do wish they would have released all the costumes separately for like 80 points each, or something like that, so you could handpick the ones you want for a reasonable price and not be stuck with ones you'll get no use out of. But...
2.) This model is obviously making Capcom a decent amount of money otherwise they wouldn't have stuck with it from SF4 to SSF4. And to look at it from a "glass half full" perspective, if this model helps to make SF4 or any Capcom fighting game a more viable business decision and makes it easier for the Capcom executives to give the "OK" on a fighting game project then I have no problem with alternative costumes being the DLC sacrificial lamb.
The problem I have is the slippery slope that's been clearly engendered by Cap's drip feed strategy - SF4/SSF4 was the standard for fighting game DLC consumer tolerance for this, and last year. This year - it's clearly BlazBlue. Both of these strats showed players are stupid enough (sorry, sorry I just feel that strongly about this) enough to pay for standard fighting game appendages such as alt costumes and characters.
From here forward, this genre is in jeopardy, IMO. There's no reason (from a business perspective) to release Yun and Yang on consoles for free. There's no reason MvC3 should even try to approach 56 characters out of the box, when they can charge for more later. There's no reason TekkenXCapcom/CapcomXTekken shouldn't do the same.
It won't stop at characters, of course. Modes, Stages, and maybe even Game Soundtracks will all be part of DLC strategies in the future. I'm about as glad as anyone fighting games are back, but I won't be supporting them once it reaches that point (there's no doubt in my mind it will).
The problem I have is the slippery slope that's been clearly engendered by Cap's drip feed strategy - SF4/SSF4 was the standard for fighting game DLC consumer tolerance for this, and last year. This year - it's clearly BlazBlue. Both of these strats showed players are stupid enough (sorry, sorry I just feel that strongly about this) enough to pay for standard fighting game appendages such as alt costumes and characters.
From here forward, this genre is in jeopardy, IMO. There's no reason (from a business perspective) to release Yun and Yang on consoles for free. There's no reason MvC3 should even try to approach 56 characters out of the box, when they can charge for more later. There's no reason TekkenXCapcom/CapcomXTekken shouldn't do the same.
It won't stop at characters, of course. Modes, Stages, and maybe even Game Soundtracks will all be part of DLC strategies in the future. I'm about as glad as anyone fighting games are back, but I won't be supporting them once it reaches that point (there's no doubt in my mind it will).
3 new characters and a rebalance is par for the course for Arc game revisions; see Guilty Gear, and that's exactly what you get in Continuum shift without buying any DLC.
The upcoming DLC and free rebalance patch will give console Continuum Shift parity with the new Arcade version of Blazblue coming to Japanese arcades in December. It has 3 new characters and balance tweaks.
So, for $21 paid DLC, you're getting what would otherwise be another $40 disc. As a fan of Arc and owner of like all the Guilty Gear games, this is a very welcome change.
I think sales figures like copies sold vs costume packs bought should probably be consulted before we get all doom and gloom. Also, SFIV and SSFIV are both full featured games that pretty much everyone in this thread felt were worth the price of admission. Capcom has no obligation to support this game for free past it's release, and you have no obligation to buy their stuff.
Also, I couldn't care less about whatever Dhalsim's alt 3 is. I don't use him, so I don't care. I buy Chun alts, and then whatever else seems cool like Fight Money Rog or Mecha-Gief.
I'm with AZ Greg, if this is what it takes for Capcom to pump out more fighting games then I'm all for it. I'm not the sort of person that's going to buy every costume, and as long as the content made after the game(characters/stages) come with balance patches, then fantastic. I don't see how this means we could wind up with a worse fighting game.
Fighting games are pretty much the only genre that still benefit from Capcom's arcade-influenced development style, so I don't mind that they're going this route as long as new games keep getting made.
The problem I have is the slippery slope that's been clearly engendered by Cap's drip feed strategy - SF4/SSF4 was the standard for fighting game DLC consumer tolerance for this, and last year. This year - it's clearly BlazBlue. Both of these strats showed players are stupid enough (sorry, sorry I just feel that strongly about this) enough to pay for standard fighting game appendages such as alt costumes and characters.
From here forward, this genre is in jeopardy, IMO. There's no reason (from a business perspective) to release Yun and Yang on consoles for free. There's no reason MvC3 should even try to approach 56 characters out of the box, when they can charge for more later. There's no reason TekkenXCapcom/CapcomXTekken shouldn't do the same.
It won't stop at characters, of course. Modes, Stages, and maybe even Game Soundtracks will all be part of DLC strategies in the future. I'm about as glad as anyone fighting games are back, but I won't be supporting them once it reaches that point (there's no doubt in my mind it will).
Annnnnnnnnnnd here we go, another person who has no idea what he's talking about.
You know sf3s? you know it was the third iteration of balancing/characters, right? we'd end up paying the same if not more to buy those 3 games or buy DLC.
Like stated earlier in the thread, FERDI GULER is #1 on the PP leaderboards right now. So checking up on youtube, I found out that he still thinks about me. Apparently he really didn't like the video about his raging that I posted on youtube. Well here is his new YT account since they closed his earlier one (probably because of all the racist messages).
Reading that gives the perfect image of this guy - an idiot who also happens to be a racist dipshit.
Even besides the horrendous grammar mistakes, I'm sure that the content still wouldn't change with all of the ridiculous assumptions and generalizations thrown in there. I'd probably laugh in his face hearing him speak English and not even care.
3 new characters and a rebalance is par for the course for Arc game revisions; see Guilty Gear, and that's exactly what you get in Continuum shift without buying any DLC.
The upcoming DLC and free rebalance patch will give console Continuum Shift parity with the new Arcade version of Blazblue coming to Japanese arcades in December. It has 3 new characters and balance tweaks.
So, for $21 paid DLC, you're getting what would otherwise be another $40 disc. As a fan of Arc and owner of like all the Guilty Gear games, this is a very welcome change.
So you're confident it will only stop at 3 characters this time? Also, BB: CS hasn't costed you $40, but $61. So you're willing to be satisfied with paying this price, despite the fact that the game, overall, has substantially less characters than any GGXX game, or SSF4, which has 35 characters - for $40?
Maybe I am overreacting a bit, but in the past, you knew for certain a new iteration's characters weren't withheld form the previous game with intentions for the fanbase to pay again for them later. On top of that, there was a larger gap between iterations introducing new characters and balance changes.
So you're confident it will only stop at 3 characters this time? Also, BB: CS hasn't costed you $40, but $61. So you're willing to be satisfied with paying this price, despite the fact that the game, overall, has substantially less characters than any GGXX game, or SSF4, which has 35 characters - for $40?
So you're confident it will only stop at 3 characters this time? Also, BB: CS hasn't costed you $40, but $61. So you're willing to be satisfied with paying this price, despite the fact that the game, overall, has substantially less characters than any GGXX game, or SSF4, which has 35 characters - for $40?
GGXX isn't a new entry so comparing the roster size is absurd. The first Guilty Gear had fewer characters than the first Blazblue, FYI. SSFIV has 35 characters, but it also has what, 7 shotos? OTOH ho character in Blaz plays even remotely similarly, and that's why I assume they are fewer.
Regardless, I play like 2 characters max in a fighter, so the value proposition of character quantity has even less of an effect on me
So you're confident it will only stop at 3 characters this time? Also, BB: CS hasn't costed you $40, but $61. So you're willing to be satisfied with paying this price, despite the fact that the game, overall, has substantially less characters than any GGXX game, or SSF4, which has 35 characters - for $40?
Maybe I am overreacting a bit, but in the past, you knew for certain a new iteration's characters weren't withheld form the previous game with intentions for the fanbase to pay again for them later. On top of that, there was a larger gap between iterations introducing new characters and balance changes.
Things would be much easier for you if you just decided to buy games that you think are worth the price and didn't buy games you think aren't. That way you don have to try and guess whether or not the developers are intentionally holding back content as opposed to just trying to stay under budget and meet deadlines. Especially considering there's really no way for you to tell the difference.
So you're confident it will only stop at 3 characters this time? Also, BB: CS hasn't costed you $40, but $61. So you're willing to be satisfied with paying this price, despite the fact that the game, overall, has substantially less characters than any GGXX game, or SSF4, which has 35 characters - for $40?
You have this unhealthy American mentality of "more content = better value". Sometimes, good things come in smaller packages. Which meal would you enjoy more, a $6 Chinese buffet or a $40 sushi dinner?
Fighting games have a ridiculous amount of content assuming you're actually in it for the right reasons (playing the game competitively against human opponents). BB:CS is an extremely deep competitive game despite having fewer characters than any GGXX, and it hasn't bothered me one bit.
Surely you wouldn't argue that MVC2 is better for having 50+ characters despite less than 10 of them being playable on a competitive level? Variety and balance are what you are paying for in a good fighter, and BB:CS offers fantastic variety even with the current cast.
Kimosabae said:
Maybe I am overreacting a bit, but in the past, you knew for certain a new iteration's characters weren't withheld form the previous game with intentions for the fanbase to pay again for them later. On top of that, there was a larger gap between iterations introducing new characters and balance changes.
Wow, this isn't true at all. I'm willing to bet you a TON of fighting games in the 90s had characters intentionally withheld for inclusion in the sequel (which almost always came a year or less later). I have no idea about this larger gap between iterations you speak of; I clearly remember a King of Fighters game, an SF Alpha, an SF Three, and a Darkstalkers coming out pretty much a year apart on the dot. The gap really hasn't changed at all.
With DLC, they are giving console fighting gamers an option to purchase content that normally would've been reserved for a new title for a marginally cheaper price. This is probably the fairest way these companies have ever done business with their fans--or did you forget paying $80 for the SSF2: Turbo SNES cartridge with no new characters?
The Blazblue model is horrendous. I didn't buy the game because well... it was obviously a rip off. A complete, and total ripoff. Few additional characters plus to buy the other 3 the game still costs 60. Yes its a way to get sales since hey... cheap $40 game! But its horrendous and not worth it, especially compared to the value of other games like SF4 and Tekken 6. I enjoyed BB, but Continum Shift was just a rip off (oh and Noel got nerfed. Fuck that =P)
I understand everyone's points, I just don't like it. I can buy costumes because what the heck, its just cosmetic and not a huge gameplay change. But new characters? Naah. Though it's certainly better than 4 more characters and $60 like the old days :lol
I have to agree. During the SNES days, we got three versions of SF2. And Capcom charged full price for each. Turbo was just character rebalancing and using the boss characters (plus new alt colors and color schemes on the stages).
Guilty Gear was ridiculous.
GGX, GGX2, GGX Accent Core, GGX Accent Core+...
I don't mind paying for content. I just think their price model is a little too aggressive. Like I said before, 99 or 50 cents for the costumes and sold separately would probably reduce some of the complaints.
Maybe I am overreacting a bit, but in the past, you knew for certain a new iteration's characters weren't withheld form the previous game with intentions for the fanbase to pay again for them later. On top of that, there was a larger gap between iterations introducing new characters and balance changes.
BB:CS came out a year after BB:CT. BB:CS's goal on consoles was to fix the "non-patchable/non-expandable" issue that SF4 had (that SSF4 fixes apparently) that CT also had.
These "three new characters" weren't even MADE during the time between CT and CS. They ARE DLC, true DLC and not "LOL UNLOCK KEY" (with the exception of buying them, anyway). Makoto, Valk, Platinum aren't on the disc. They were patched in. CS is getting the CS2/Arcade balance patch within the year.
I'm completely content with this method, however I am not content with paying $8, but what can I do? I can bitch, but I either wait for a bundle or buy them now. Whatever.
God's Beard said:
What direction? Not paying $70 for every revision of Street Fighter 2?
Boom goes the dynamite. I rather have characters patched into a disc and "pay more" from a base price (however, I really wish I didn't) than pay $40-60 a pop for a new disc/iteration/balance patches that could've been patched on online-enabled platforms.
The regular stage music in SFIV is fine. The character themes are soft versions of the OGs. Grunts, wah, wah, techno riffs of the originals (except for Abel and Adon).
I only really like the Africa stage theme. The others are pretty forgettable. Familiar themes are not even close to being the best iterations. But thank god for custom soundtracks!
Number YT question and message. "What song is that?"
I'm not overreacting at all. That statement was an appeasement. My concerns are completely rational given the monetary system we reside in. There's some strong counterpoints, but for myriad reasons I'm not convinced. I'm done with this discussion. We'll see where people's willingness to pay for colors takes us.
Like stated earlier in the thread, FERDI GULER is #1 on the PP leaderboards right now. So checking up on youtube, I found out that he still thinks about me. Apparently he really didn't like the video about his raging that I posted on youtube. Well here is his new YT account since they closed his earlier one (probably because of all the racist messages).
The fact that he still cares so much gives your ragemail vid far too much credibility Salty Guler much. Its like yo...ok you lost to someone you feel you shouldnt. I dont rage at the player I rage at myself.
I've been losing a lot lately. And half the time when I've lost, I've lost to the dumbest shit imaginable.
Like I'll have someone on the ropes, and think "k, he's totally gonna do random ultra." So I turtle up and give up my momentum and wait for him to do something dumb I can punish. Then they don't do anything dumb, and the second I get my momentum back, I pause in the middle of a blockstring or something, again waiting for something stupid. Doesn't happen. So then I get my momentum again and get hit by AA Ryu U1, or demon'd between my blockstrings, or have Fei Long autocorrect his wakeup U1 and juggle my meaty burning kick attempt in the corner, or something equally retarded.
I've been losing a lot lately. And half the time when I've lost, I've lost to the dumbest shit imaginable.
Like I'll have someone on the ropes, and think "k, he's totally gonna do random ultra." So I turtle up and give up my momentum and wait for him to do something dumb I can punish. Then they don't do anything dumb, and the second I get my momentum back, I pause in the middle of a blockstring or something, again waiting for something stupid. Doesn't happen. So then I get my momentum again and get hit by AA Ryu U1, or demon'd between my blockstrings, or have Fei Long autocorrect his wakeup U1 and juggle my meaty burning kick attempt in the corner, or something equally foolish.
in the past, you knew for certain a new iteration's characters weren't withheld form the previous game with intentions for the fanbase to pay again for them later. On top of that, there was a larger gap between iterations introducing new characters and balance changes.
Wait, what? Does BlazBlu charge for colors? Or are you just trying to reduce SF4/SSF4 alternative costumes to being nothing more than new colors in order to "strengthen" your argument?
And haven't we been hearing since 2005 that DLC would ruin gaming? There has undeniably been some shitty DLC situations and it will never be ideal, but last time I checked, all the doom and gloom predictions haven't exactly taken place. Back in 2005 people were using the "We'll see where people's willingness to pay for blah blah blah takes us!" And 5 years later we're simply paying for alternative costumes that have no effect on gameplay. Or in the case of BB, paying a relatively small amount compared to the $60-$70 that would have been paid in the past for a similar update. I hope you weren't one of those people who back in 2005 thought we'd pay $40 for something like Street Fighter 4 Base and it would include the 8 original World Warriors with every other character costing 200 points or something. :lol
I mainly want arcade and console versions to be the same, and to be available in all regions at roughly the same time. Feels kinda weird to be using these moves that you know won't work the same way in a few months.
Other than that, if you don't like DLC, don't buy it. I haven't even bought the alt costumes for SSF4.
