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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!
- Thread starter EviLore
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sixteen-bit
Member
SATA
i had made a note to mention that too.Papercuts said:
but yea thats something to watch. and sucks.
stop depressing me.Papercuts said:
you'll never ever stun dudley anyway, ive done stunless 20 second perfects. >_> i think the slide mixup must bleed stun, never checked tho.
Man, playing under my friends XBL name right now (chuvylicious) with AZ Greg in Endless. I'm semi holding my own using Cody but my friend just got double p'd on using fuerte haha.
Vega shenanigans are crazy though, never knew his df kick was so freaking good. Also, Izuna drops , how the hell do you counter those things.
Just trying to apply Cody pressure against his Vega is hard enough without dealing with that stuff.
Vega shenanigans are crazy though, never knew his df kick was so freaking good. Also, Izuna drops , how the hell do you counter those things.
Just trying to apply Cody pressure against his Vega is hard enough without dealing with that stuff.
Regarding last year's evo monitor, just came across this on slickdeals.. good price!
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2129248
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2129248
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
good job, panda. I've pretty much retired the Oil King for now cuz of school and chillin with my kids but good to see you lay out a foundation for others to join the brotherhood.B1gg_Randall
Member
I know how you feel...20 min in my PS3 fan starts blowing heat like crazy...
SephirothRK
Member
hitsugi said:
He's not playing?
Victrix said:
Sakura wasn't good, now she is. She still has her weaknesses, she still is no Ryu, but now she has a good cross up and her zoning isn't horrible. I think it is the same with Makoto. Makes sense that Makoto has low health and poor defense, as, like Sakura, she meant to be a high-risk, high-reward character, but right now the risk-reward math don't add up. Karakusa really need to have that low range, be that slow and to lose to normal grabs? It really need all that to be a balanced move? Can't it just be slow, for example, have it be a risky move against reversals, or be avoided by jumping back, but to be grabbed out of your command grab is fairly rage inducing.
Different from the people at srk, I actually think she has a nice damage output as she can really almost end a fight by guessing right a couple of times and just poking right a couple of others, but just like Sakura needed the j.mk crossup to be Sakura, Makoto needs an acceptable Karakusa to be Makoto. She is not terrible, but she is a bit broken and it is noticeable.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Cody's b. MP works pretty well agst Vega wall dives.cHaotix8 said:
I've used it against Greg many times.
Joekage - Chuvy's Fuerte is free.. its terrible.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Shouta said:
Yeah gg, dudley with the combos. I got scared after all that hah.
Edit: Vega talk
I'll never be able to handle Vega. I get too confused and don't know how to counter his stuff. Not enough people play him for me to study counters. Surprised people don't class him with blanka.
cHaotix8 said:
I think her health is all right, but yeah, what I'm saying is that in a game like this, small changes can fix or break a character. She don't a need a shoryuken and her command grab don't need to be a SPD, but her fundamentals have to work, right now, the feeling is that they fail when they shouldn't.
But since I'm a scrub, I'll ask for tips. When is the time to use Fukiage? I try to use it against people trying to cross me up, but 60% of the time just get me counter-hit, the other 30% I actually do it too early (also frustrating, see she doing the animation to an anti-air attack and the enemy on the air directly above it not being hit).
It is not supposed to work like that or am I screwing the timing that much?
Outside of neutral jump punishes and in Ultra II, I never see any Makoto players use Fukiage. If you're good at spacing and are able to use it as an anti air then that's good, but I would assume that there are better punishment options.
The thing with Makoto is that there's no safe way to apply pressure. Most of her stuff is negative and I think she has like 1 +3 normal on block. People with common sense and good reactions will never lose to her I think. I'm by no means an expert by the way, just my opinion on the character.
The thing with Makoto is that there's no safe way to apply pressure. Most of her stuff is negative and I think she has like 1 +3 normal on block. People with common sense and good reactions will never lose to her I think. I'm by no means an expert by the way, just my opinion on the character.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
lulz. chuvy is free.Joekage said:
My main problem now is finding out what's safe and what's not for Vega and also how to avoid the ground izuna drops. Seems like Vegas has little to no recovery on his air atacks and the flip kick reversal. Not sure if I'm just slow to react or what also, his df HK is one of the best moves I've ever seen. That things priority is amazingly disgusting.
cHaotix8 said:
Sucks to hear about Fukiage. And this is what upsets me about her, I even get not having safe normals, as part of her appeal is more about reading the opponent than poking, but, again, to have certain moves simply not working is sad.
Pandaman said:
I don't have the data, but I feel that stuff you do after EX tatsu feel better. I used to have problems with the c.lp -> c.hp link that I just don't have anymore. I don't know if that's a change in the game or in myself.
And the main change in my opinion is j.mk crossing up, really. Crossing with j.lk wasn't bad just because you needed to do c.lk -> c.lp -> c.hp to finally get to ex tatsu, but it felt harder just to hit, not that I am jumping over people's head all the time, but it is an option that felt much more difficult to access before.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Joekage said:
Always tech after a block df. HK. For Cody his cr. mk can actually stuff a lot of vegas moves including ex wall dives coming at you if he starts it kinda close to you.
AZ Greg is just god damn good with Izuna drops. Most Vegas arent and he is usually on point. Never attempt to focus EX Wall Dives.. He will Izuna you or double slash you thus breaking through it.
I find fighting AZ Greg unique. He isn't like any other Vega out there. He uses some of the basic fundamentals of Vega like df HK into Flip Kick but at the same time hes kinda like the Inthul of Vegas. He knows the ins and outs of him and he uses his shenanigans that a lot of people arent familiar with. He's just got it down to a science that he can literally dissect people with his Vega.
Seriously is unlike any other Vega out there.
I feel for Greg sometimes because it seems a lot of times the discussion is more about how to deal with Vega as a character than it is just how good he is at the game in general. There are plenty of people that give him the credit, and I'm sure he's not browsing the SSFIV thread just to see people talk about how good he is. But still, you can talk match-ups and strategies all you want. But there's more to it than that. Greg is just damn good at the game. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't play Daigo and then say "Man how do I deal with Ryu? He is such a hard character to fight."TurtleSnatcher said:
TurtleSnatcher said:
Thing is, he has the option to either grab, jump fierce or a low attack and both of those beat teching.
I'm gonna try and see if back dashing works, but it wont save me in the corner. You're right about his style though. None of the Vegas I played in Japan play like him.
Kccitystar
Member
Pandaman said:
Which reminds me, tonight was fucking epic. :lol
DAT BUKI. NEVAR FORGET
Sblargh said:
I get EX Fukiage quite often on jump-ins, and the possible follow-ups after that deal some nice damage. On corner crossup attempts, i land it similarly often as well.... Hmm, i'm giving bad advice :lol but when it looks like it should hit, then try it, all i can suggest is just keep going at it till the timing for it (individual of the strength of the attack used) just clicks.
LP.Fukiage is great when you can predict a crossup early. Her st.MP can be used as a good anti-air provided that they jump in from afar (So dont always rely on Fukiage! Use this normal often~). Fukiage is also useful on ...some whiffed moves, for example, whiffed SRK's i believe can be usually caught with MP.Fukiage and possibly combo'd into a later Fukiage, then a jump cancel EX.Tsurugi. But this is hardly practical xD It's not the easiest to land all the time unless the opponent happens to whiff a HP.SRK :lol
I don't think I'm one of the Makoto users on NeoGAF to take advice from, however i like seeing others use the character, and i plan to put some more time in the game practicing with her.
killdatninja
Banned
cHaotix8 said:Thing is, he has the option to either grab, jump fierce or a low attack and both of those beat teching.
You're right about his style though. None of the Vegas I played in Japan play like him.
He can grab, jump back fierce or backdash/kkk flip but he can't do a low attack, if he does he's eating a grab. You can crouch tech to be safe (I'm terrible at that timing I go for standard teching), it'll whiff the jump back fierce because it doesn't hit crouching opponents (unless you have big hitbox zangief/sagat/rawg/etc). If he does the kkk flip or backdash he can punish throw whiffs but again if you option crouch tech (cr.short will come out) you'll have enough time to recover and punish.
DP reversals also work on the df.hk, use sparingly because he will bait them and punish it hard.
I'm dissecting gregs vega slowly, for you gaf, I still can't beat him but there will be a time where he stops making us look free
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Not sure if you are referring this reply to me telling people how to deal with Vega and not AZ or vice versa...XenoRaven said:
Quoting peoples post then going on a rant always confuses me.. :lol
cHaotix8 said:Thing is, he has the option to either grab, jump fierce or a low attack and both of those beat teching.
You're right about his style though. None of the Vegas I played in Japan play like him.
He most def can't low attack.
Jump back fierce and grab. 85% of the time Greg will grab. Sometimes he will back flip and try to punish people mashing grab.
Not sure.. but can you backdash after a df. HK? At least another option for mix ups on your own end to get out of it.
LMFAO - Greg you should be proud - This thread is turning into a scientific discussion of beating your Vega.
Still the best Vega I have ever played hands down
<3 AZ Greg. Not to mention hes a chill guy to chat with while playing he laughs at you moan in agony :lol I hate the start up of kick flip. It comes out really fast.
dragonballjoseph
Member
How to beat Greg's Vega 101: Frame traps.
I basically had to look up various frame traps Bison has just so I could beat him and integrate it into my playstyle. So in a way, Greg really helped beef up my Bison. :lol
And yeah, Greg's Vega is extremely unique. He's the only one to ever give me problems.
I basically had to look up various frame traps Bison has just so I could beat him and integrate it into my playstyle. So in a way, Greg really helped beef up my Bison. :lol
And yeah, Greg's Vega is extremely unique. He's the only one to ever give me problems.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Dallas GAF is just free to Greg.cHaotix8 said:
FindMyFarms
Member
You beat vega df + rh the same way you beat any normal, space properly and make it whiff, then punish. It's a really easy whiff punish too. If vega's in range focus bait that shit depending on whether he has charge or not.
If they DO get you with the df + rh on block, it's -1 but keep in mind it has 5 active frames, so it's not unusual for them to be at advantage. Teching is dandy and all, but if you're predictable you will eat either jump back FP (non OS tech) or cr. jab counterhit (os tech) into pain. Typically I'll just backdash, as it's a pretty safe option.
Actually the one time I played him I think he P'd on me :lol :lol So yeah this is pretty true.
If they DO get you with the df + rh on block, it's -1 but keep in mind it has 5 active frames, so it's not unusual for them to be at advantage. Teching is dandy and all, but if you're predictable you will eat either jump back FP (non OS tech) or cr. jab counterhit (os tech) into pain. Typically I'll just backdash, as it's a pretty safe option.
TurtleSnatcher said:
Actually the one time I played him I think he P'd on me :lol :lol So yeah this is pretty true.
cHaotix8 said:
The reason why most Makoto players dont use Fukiage much right now is because even though we're a few months in its still pretty early in the game. Its like if you were to ask a Chun player back in vanilla (and in super for the most part) what her AA game was the first thing to come out of their motush would be "it depends on the matchup/situation". Certain characters in general are much easier to fukiage than others and as time goes by it'll be seen more often.
As far as AA/punishment (refering to the bold)? As far as an AA opportunity Fukiage is going to yield the best results (with higher risk of course). With meter you're averaging out around 300dmg/500stun IIRC with either a techable knockdown right next to you or a puch to the corner + reset opportunity. Going air 2 air leads to a cross under mixup, with an AA normal like s.MP leading to a similar situation.
Another area where fukiage will be more seen is in pure punishment scenarios (ie blocked SRK, punishing vertiball/ultra 1, stuff like that). Usually it'll net comparable if not more damage than a usual punish (outside of ultra, or bigger situations where you could use IA tsurugi) and also give you a corner reset opportunity when you're near it. Its a really nice choice although getting an untechable knockdown from a normal ground punish is also good.
It really is a clutch AA that entirely depends on reading your opponent, which is Maktoto to a T.
As for her normals, S.MP (and f.MP) is all you need sometimes although I wouldn't mind if f.LK was not at disadvantage on block.
If I had a wishlist to make Mak even angrier (in a good way) it would be:
Karakusa doesn't really need more range. Even if the hitbox on EX extended to her hands I think that would be asking for too much since that would make EX kara kara a huge fuck you to a huge chunk of footsies (probably hyperbole). The only thing i'd ask for would be a decent amount of throw invincibility.
Have the input for instant air tsurugis be more lenient would be really nice. TK being easier would be nicer. My biggest problem with this move is that its a bit too passive aggressive to be a divekick but if you're a hair off on the timing you get all the negative properties of doing a divekick too high. I'm not asking for divekick pressure (though its already there just not in the same form as rufus or cammy) its just I would like one move that if blocked that at worst it only stops my momentum but not to the point that I lost 400 damage. Or is that too greedy?
Consistent or better strike invincibility on EX oroshi.
Hayate. Keep it ass on block, but make the advantage on hit to justify dat assage. All i really ask for is for all three versions to raise 1 frame of advantage (ie right now is 0/+1/+2, i want it to be +1/+2/+3). The biggest ramification I see is that if the strong/fierce hit on CH you could link into at the very least link a s.MP. BIGDANMUL would have a field day with this, lol. I didn't really think this part through so its the only thing thats a bit outlandish persay.
I've thought about this way too much.
EDIT - oh, and make Ultra II fast enough to be more of a threat but slow enough to not combo from Karakusa. And invincibility on the way down. And cutscene on airborne opponnents. And sugar and rainbows urvrywhere.
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