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[gundamkyoukai]

All this means is that Makoto is now mid-tier...

I happy with just that .

 

[Hitokage]

Congrats to Makoto for breaking the invisible ceiling.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Congrats to Makoto for breaking the invisible ceiling.

Again.

She had 1000 health in 3S.

 

[B-Genius]

All I wanted for her, really. Well, that and her old voice clips.

Her 3S VO was great, for sure, but I think it's amazing that they got back the original actress (Makoto Tsumura) for SSFIV. Dedication! She did a lovely job bringing the character to life in 3D imo.

 

[Fraeon]

Yeah, Mak's voice is as good as in Third Strike. I have no issues with that at all.

 

[sixteen-bit]

On that note, isn't Yun's voice actor reprising his role too?

Shame they couldn't get the original Dudley.

 

[LakeEarth]

ABEL

Normals
-cr.HP has a smaller attack box

The launcher is already unreliable enough as it is.

 

[sixteen-bit]

The launcher is already unreliable enough as it is.

and when you do land it, enjoy an Ultra that does 10% less damage as your reward!

 

[Leunam]

The launcher is already unreliable enough as it is.

Yeah, it's not a great anti-air as it is, really odd change.

I wonder what this means against Fuerte, since it can be hard to nail him with both hits at distances where you could get both hits on other characters.

 

[USD]

I updated my original post, they specifically mentioned that it's the second hit of cr.HP that got nerfed. Of course, it's the second hit that's the important one, since that one's the launcher.

 

[cHaotix8]

Not sure why they nerfed Abel's cr. fierce. Everything else seems alright though, 'cept I prefer Ultra 2 to have armor for punishment purposes.

And I wouldn't say Rufus got nerfed guys. I'd say he'd got away pretty clean in the fact that he wasn't really nerfed to the point where his tier position will change. Cammy got it much worse.

Hopefully Duds can get some of those Mak buffs. If his forward dash had less recovery I would be ecstatic.

 

[Spiderjericho]

I can't hate on the changes they made. Some might, but it seems like they're really trying to go for parity. Hopefully, Dan and Dudley get some buffs and maybe they can restore Sagat's light kick shenanigans and Zangief seems fine just the way he is.

Also, good job on the NCR stream IPW (ie Haunts, Mr Jared). Mr. Jared is a funny guy, especially when he's trolling.

And glad to see Ricky win another major. I hope some west coast cats go out to NEC. And looking forward to WCW (3 or four).

 

[LakeEarth]

Yeah, it's not a great anti-air as it is, really odd change.

I wonder what this means against Fuerte, since it can be hard to nail him with both hits at distances where you could get both hits on other characters.

Seriously, you can only reliably launch him on hitstun (ie. CoD FADC c.fp). If he's just standing there, bastard will NOT launch unless you get really lucky. It's like Fuerte's idle animation only has a handful of frames where you can launch him and a buttload that won't. How do you not fix that?

 

[Dartastic]

Oh, hey guys what's going on in OMFGGGGG YAAAAAAAAAAAY

*raptor.gif*

 

[MIMIC]

Totally satisfied with Abel's U2 nerf Now I don't feel so bad about Fuerte's ultra getting nerfed :lol Actually, I've gone back to Ultra 1 because I kinda missed it (I love the freeze animation for it).

And good for Makoto. Nice to see her get some decent improvements.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Seriously, you can only reliably launch him on hitstun (ie. CoD FADC c.fp). If he's just standing there, bastard will NOT launch unless you get really lucky. It's like Fuerte's idle animation only has a handful of frames where you can launch him and a buttload that won't. How do you not fix that?

It's rad how they're not fixing the step-kick bullshit on characters like Vega, Fuerte, and Honda or the fierce follow-up on crouching opponents. It seems like such a silly thing to nerf, is Rufus going to lose jumping roundhouse to ultra 1? Damage nerfs are somewhat understandable but I wished they'd make things safer if they do so, and the roll nerf seems pointless. But making a hit-box worst on a character who already has issues with his hit-boxes is silly.

Really unhappy with the Soul Satellite nerf, they've made the move pretty fucking useless beyond getting a little extra damage in jump-in combos when it was never that difficult to deal with. Also on the topic of ultras Soulless was better than Breathless 90% of the time, shit didn't need to be nerfed because people couldn't figure how to get out of it.

 

[Satyamdas]

Also on the topic of ultras Soulless was better than Breathless 90% of the time, shit didn't need to be nerfed because people couldn't figure how to get out of it.

How about it didn't need to have armor in the first place? I mean seriously, Breathless can be delayed, is cancellable, has armor, and on top of that does obscene damage, and you don't understand why it was nerfed?!

 

[Leunam]

It's rad how they're not fixing the step-kick bullshit on characters like Vega, Fuerte, and Honda or the fierce follow-up on crouching opponents.

Standing fierce missing on some crouching characters I can live with, but I do agree that they really should have fixed Step Kick into standing fierce only working at max distance on some characters.

As for the Ultra II nerf, I don't know. I only use it against Zangief and Balrog since Soulless is better every other time.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Not sure why they nerfed Abel's cr. fierce. Everything else seems alright though, 'cept I prefer Ultra 2 to have armor for punishment purposes.

And I wouldn't say Rufus got nerfed guys. I'd say he'd got away pretty clean in the fact that he wasn't really nerfed to the point where his tier position will change. Cammy got it much worse.

Hopefully Duds can get some of those Mak buffs. If his forward dash had less recovery I would be ecstatic.

:lol After Marn destroyed Daigo, they're probably like "nerf nerf nerf Dudley."

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Dash = faster travel or faster recovery?

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

How about it didn't need to have armor in the first place? I mean seriously, Breathless can be delayed, is cancellable, has armor, and on top of that does obscene damage, and you don't understand why it was nerfed?!

Brealthless's main uses for me were in bad match-up's such as Honda where you could use it as a punish for headbutts, an OS for back-dashing and AA, it's now lost a major application. The delay is usable against a few specific characters in the corner, namely Gief which is another shit match-up for Abel, Balrog's the only other I can think of and even then he can lock you down from doing it with his U1. Beyond that you shouldn't be getting hit be random Breathless any more than any other ultra, most characters can not only get out of it for free but can quite a few can get an ultra punish on it no matter what he does such as Sim.

My point is Breathless was a move that was helpful in only a couple of his very bad match-ups and it's been nerfed, probably because of people complaining about it when they simply don't know how to get out of it.

 

[MIMIC]

Breathless was just TOO good overall...which is why I completely understood the damage nerf for Fuerte's U2. Of course people can escape it but that's not the point; the point was that, more often than not, there's a very good chance of landing it and it's pretty easy to set up. And when it IS successful, you get mega damage.

 

[USD]

Dash = faster travel or faster recovery?

I updated a while ago, it seems like they cut some of her movement frames during the actual dash. It might mean her dash has a slightly shorter range, not 100% sure though.

 

[Satyamdas]

Brealthless's main uses for me were in bad match-up's such as Honda where you could use it as a punish for headbutts, an OS for back-dashing and AA, it's now lost a major application. The delay is usable against a few specific characters in the corner, namely Gief which is another shit match-up for Abel, Balrog's the only other I can think of and even then he can lock you down from doing it with his U1. Beyond that you shouldn't be getting hit be random Breathless any more than any other ultra, most characters can not only get out of it for free but can quite a few can get an ultra punish on it no matter what he does such as Sim.

My point is Breathless was a move that was helpful in only a couple of his very bad match-ups and it's been nerfed, probably because of people complaining about it when they simply don't know how to get out of it.

You are missing the point. Your template for what Ultra to use in any given matchup is not shared universally and is actually irrelevant to the topic, which is the properties of the Ultra itself. Breathless needed nerfing because of all the properties it has in addition to the insane damage it does. I'd be fine with the damage staying the same if it could not be cancelled or delayed and had no armor. Or if it can be delayed/cancelled and had armor, but the damage was reduced by 25%. But having both its delay/armor properties AND crazy damage? Come on now.

I've probably been hit with Breathless less than 10 times since Super came out. Most Abels still use Soulless vs. Sim and Breathless is harder to land on him than a lot of characters. But that has nothing to do with the properties of the move being a bit much and needing to be toned down.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Breathless was just TOO good overall...which is why I completely understood the damage nerf for Fuerte's U2. Of course people can escape it but that's not the point; the point was that, more often than not, there's a very good chance of landing it and it's pretty easy to set up. And when it IS successful, you get mega damage.

The only thing i disagree with is the removal of armor once in motion, you shouldn't be able to just hit em out of it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

The only thing i disagree with is the removal of armor once in motion, you shouldn't be able to just hit em out of it.

It's a throw right? Wouldn't he just grab the limb?

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

GEN

Mantis
-2 target combos added
-TC1 is cr.LK > cr.MK
-TC2 far/close HP (first hit) > far/close st.MK
-The respective MK are cancellable, so you can combine them with Specials
-During the startup of far/close st.LP, the hittable box from the elbow to tip has been cut, making it harder to stuff.
-cr.MP has a faster startup. far/close st.LP (or cr.LP) > cr.MP now link. Since cr.MP is cancellable, cr.MP > Hands is now better, regardless of whether it hits or is blocked
-far/close st.HK has slightly longer reach
-UC2's hitbox has been extended downward, making it less likely to whiff

Crane
-UC2 has faster movement

Other
-Is considered to be airborne immediately after the invincibility frames of his backdash end

Alpha Gen am born:lol

It's a throw right? Wouldn't he just grab the limb?

low Jump attacks, Burning Kicks, TK strike, Tsurugi....

 

[XenoRaven]

A person's ability to get out of it is only part of the equation. Though I do think you're severely underestimating a beginner or intermediate player's ability to get out of it but whatever.

There's no other Ultra in the game that punishes as hard and easy as Breathless. And for all it's utility and damage, you can cancel it at virtually no penalty if you see it's not going to work. That's not how Ultras work in this game. You throw it out there all stupid, you should get blown up. Your opponent shouldn't have to run away like a girl while you just get to sit there and time your grab or just cancel it altogether. Something had to give and the loss of armor on the dash was what I wanted to see before AE was even announced. I think it's a great adjustment.

 

[Kintaro]

There's no other Ultra in the game that punishes as hard and easy as Breathless. And for all it's utility and damage, you can cancel it at virtually no penalty if you see it's not going to work. That's not how Ultras work in this game. You throw it out there all stupid, you should get blown up. Your opponent shouldn't have to run away like a girl while you just get to sit there and time your grab or just cancel it altogether. Something had to give and the loss of armor on the dash was what I wanted to see before AE was even announced. I think it's a great adjustment.

Well, you do lose your Ultra meter...

Also, what you just said, also described Rose's Ultra 2 doesn't it?. There's no penalty, it completely stops the opponent's flow and allows the Rose player to reset their game. Probably why that one was nerfed too.

 

[LakeEarth]

Everyone is focused on this:

Breathless does 10% less damage and has a slower startup. It no longer has Armor during his charge forward, and has more recovery on both whiff and cancel

But what we should really be focused on is this:

Breathless does 10% less damage and has a slower startup. It no longer has Armor during his charge forward, and has more recovery on both whiff and cancel

How much slower? 1-2 frames? What can't be punished anymore? IIRC, Breathless had 7 frames and soulless has 11 frames of startup. If its 1-2 frames, there may be a few punishes that won't work anymore, but if its the same as soulless then who wouldn't pick Soulless instead?

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

You are missing the point. Your template for what Ultra to use in any given matchup is not shared universally and is actually irrelevant to the topic, which is the properties of the Ultra itself. Breathless needed nerfing because of all the properties it has in addition to the insane damage it does. I'd be fine with the damage staying the same if it could not be cancelled or delayed and had no armor. Or if it can be delayed/cancelled and had armor, but the damage was reduced by 25%. But having both its delay/armor properties AND crazy damage? Come on now.

I've probably been hit with Breathless less than 10 times since Super came out. Most Abels still use Soulless vs. Sim and Breathless is harder to land on him than a lot of characters. But that has nothing to do with the properties of the move being a bit much and needing to be toned down.

You're missing the point, Souless is preferred in a majority of match-ups for a large number of the cast. It's supposed base over-powered properties are clearly less preferable that what Souless offers, yet for some random reason Breathless should be nerfed?

It has applications against Honda and Gief, two of Abel's worst match-ups, it's pretty much preferable in only those two match-ups. It's ability to punish headbutt will be gone with the increased start-up, it's ability to trap Gief in the corner is gone because he can jump back forward all day.

I don't get why it's so hard to understand that the move is pretty useless now because it's lost a lot of the applications it has in the only 2 matches that the majority of good Abels use it in. Though no, clearly further increasing the disparity in bad match-ups is more balanced.

Fuck it, I'm gunna go whinge to Capcom about Shin-Shoryuken because it can be combed from grab, comboed into from cancels, counter-hit moves clean (no canceling into reversals); all things that breathless already can't do and it still does a tone of damage. So many properties!

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Changes are out for Makoto, Gen, Abel and Blanka.

I have no time to translate this, but Makoto got buffed pretty nicely. She can now kara cancel her standing light kick!

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/development_blog/2010/11/22_2825.html

Faster dash? Hopefully that means you can focus attack and move forward against fireball spam now. 1000 HP (up from 950) is also nice to hear. Her HP was a little low for the type of character she is. I approve of all her changes.

No mention of making the karakusa box bigger tho...

 

[sixteen-bit]

No mention of making the karakusa box bigger tho...

at least there's the LK kara

 

[Satyamdas]

You're missing the point, Souless is preferred in a majority of match-ups for a large number of the cast. It's supposed base over-powered properties are clearly less preferable that what Souless offers, yet for some random reason Breathless should be nerfed?

It has applications against Honda and Gief, two of Abel's worst match-ups, it's pretty much preferable in only those two match-ups. It's ability to punish headbutt will be gone with the increased start-up, it's ability to trap Gief in the corner is gone because he can jump back forward all day.

I don't get why it's so hard to understand that the move is pretty useless now because it's lost a lot of the applications it has in the only 2 matches that the majority of good Abels use it in. Though no, clearly further increasing the disparity in bad match-ups is more balanced.

Fuck it, I'm gunna go whinge to Capcom about Shin-Shoryuken because it can be combed from grab, comboed into from cancels, counter-hit moves clean (no canceling into reversals); all things that breathless already can't do and it still does a tone of damage. So many properties!

LOL, ok dude. Sorry if I struck a nerve. But why so much whining about nerfs to a move that you (and "the majority of good Abels") only use in 2 matches anyway? I don't know if you consider Juicebox or Rico Suave "good Abels" or not, but I see them use Breathless in way more than just 2 matchups and they land it all the fucking time.

 

[Wiseblade]

Hey, remember when Super was announced and (apart for Sagat) everyone was hoping for weaker members of the cast to reciece buffs rather than stronger members getting nerfs?

good times

 

[LakeEarth]

I like Breathless against Balrog because a blocked headbutt is a free ultra. Sure, its also a free c.mp xx CoD xx FADC -> c.hp -> Soulless, but who has time for that right?

I also like Breathless for Vega, specifically AZ Greg's Vega mainly because he can NOT do his instant jumpback fierce overhead. On block (I'm not 100% sure but I think even if it hits), you can reversal breathless and grab him on his way down since Vega's jump is so vertical. It also punishes a blocked EX wall spike (soulless can do this but it has to be reversal), and jumping over Vega's rolling attack and punishing from behind.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Hey, remember when Super was announced and (apart for Sagat) everyone was hoping for weaker members of the cast to receive buffs rather than stronger members getting nerfs?

good times

They would have to give everyone more health if that were the case because fights would last 10 seconds :lol

 

[Wiseblade]

This is probably the greatest money match my eyes have ever gazed upon. :lol

 

[XenoRaven]

Well, you do lose your Ultra meter...

Also, what you just said, also described Rose's Ultra 2 doesn't it?. There's no penalty, it completely stops the opponent's flow and allows the Rose player to reset their game. Probably why that one was nerfed too.

This would be fair if the damage and offensive capabilities were comparable. They're not. I have thoughts about Soul Satellite, but I really don't feel like typing them up on my phone.

Also, I don't want to quote it because multiple quotes and editing quotes is a pain on the phone, but my favorite part about character nerf/buff discussions are the gross exagerrations and baseless assumptions.

 

[Kaako]

This is probably the greatest money match my eyes have ever gazed upon. :lol

Shovels and sheep, lad. :lol :lol

 

[Brobzoid]

Abel's elbow being even worse is a far greater nerf than his U2 nerf. Overreact about that instead.

Spoiler

CHARACTER BREAKING OMFGSDG ANTIAIR? MOAR LIEK FREE JUMP-INS AMIRITE!? !+1

 

[Satyamdas]

Hey, remember when Super was announced and (apart for Sagat) everyone was hoping for weaker members of the cast to reciece buffs rather than stronger members getting nerfs?

good times

Yeah, I remember this, and pretty much that is what happened apart from a few weird exceptions like Gen. And it turns out that in Super much of the cast has moves or things about them that need nerfing, and that is what is happening in AE. Why is this such a huge deal? Why would it be de facto superior to buff everyone up to Abel level? If you want a game that is over in 20 seconds every round then go play SSF2T.

 

[cHaotix8]

Abel's elbow being even worse is a far greater nerf than his U2 nerf. Overreact about that instead.

Spoiler

CHARACTER BREAKING OMFGSDG ANTIAIR? MOAR LIEK FREE JUMP-INS AMIRITE!? !+1

Isn't his close fierce/EX Falling sky/Ultra II/cr. lk(I think?) a better anti air anyway? It's not like people are gonna be able to jump all over him.

I don't see why they just didn't nerf his cancel recovery. It's not hard to get out of at all and is by no means unfair if you know how to punish it.

 

[the_log_ride]

I love hearing about the changes. I take pleasure in watching people bitch and moan over the tweaks to their beloved characters when they take a hit so to speak. /devlish grin

 

[Brobzoid]

Isn't his close fierce/EX Falling sky/Ultra II/cr. mk a better anti air anyway? It's not like people are gonna be able to jump all over him.

but his elbow should be better damn it!

Obviously landing it gives you a free ultra so it shouldn't be too easy (see balrog's headbutt; massive recovery), but when you see shit like the first hit connecting and not getting the launch I cry. it fucks up on crouching opponents all the time too. DISGRACEFUL.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

This is probably the greatest money match my eyes have ever gazed upon. :lol

wow nice

 

[sixteen-bit]

This is probably the greatest money match my eyes have ever gazed upon. :lol

Adon AND Abel? Relevant to my interests.

 

[Rocwell]

I love hearing about the changes. I take pleasure in watching people bitch and moan over the tweaks to their beloved characters when they take a hit so to speak. /devlish grin

Changes for Dhalsim in arcade edition:

Improved frame advantage on drills/mummy
Yoga blast hits standing opponents and has invincibility frames
Forward dash is faster

No longer able to stretch his limbs and hit opponents across the screen.

 

[OmnipotentO]

MAKOTO!!!

 

[Cloudius12]

GEN

Mantis
-2 target combos added
-TC1 is cr.LK > cr.MK
-TC2 far/close HP (first hit) > far/close st.MK
-The respective MK are cancellable, so you can combine them with Specials
-During the startup of far/close st.LP, the hittable box from the elbow to tip has been cut, making it harder to stuff.
-cr.MP has a faster startup. far/close st.LP (or cr.LP) > cr.MP now link. Since cr.MP is cancellable, cr.MP > Hands is now better, regardless of whether it hits or is blocked
-far/close st.HK has slightly longer reach
-UC2's hitbox has been extended downward, making it less likely to whiff

Crane
-UC2 has faster movement

Other
-Is considered to be airborne immediately after the invincibility frames of his backdash end

Awesome Target Combo.
MP > HP> MK > Hands!

Target Combo 1 seems pretty decent as well.

Still no additional defense buffs or escapes.