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[Formless]

God's Beard, you played Fei at least in Vanilla right? Any tips for Fei in Super and in general?

 

[dragonballjoseph]

First off, thanks for answering my post with a intelligent response. Cammy, Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Adon, Dan, Guile, Seth, Cody and Balrog all have some form of invincibility on their reversals. The thing that separates them from Dudley is that they also have a way to zone, turtle, or beat you on the ground with superior footsies. Dudley can't do any of that. When fighting characters that have good anti airs, you're pretty much forced to fight them on the ground where they dominate. The least you can ask for is some kind of reversal so that they don't dominate you in the air too without meter.n, where the best I can hope for is blocking the jump in and getting stuck in a block string.

XD

 

[cHaotix8]

XD

Joe makes great use zonk knuckle.

 

[Joekage]

I'm really sad I missed this mini tourney. Stuck at work unfortunately... cause I would have taken it! Haha good job Seph, and coil it's all good, you'll get em next time...until you play my Cody, nah my Cody is Freeeeeeee

also yeah zonk knuckle is great when you learn how to use it correctly.

 

[dragonballjoseph]

I make great use for it too.
The problem I have with Cody is that his reversals are too slow. Unless you get a techable knockdown for bad spray or Ultra 2, you can be pressured like crazy on wake-up.

 

[Pandaman]

First off, thanks for answering my post with a intelligent response. Cammy, Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Adon, Dan, Guile, Seth, Cody and Balrog all have some form of invincibility on their reversals.

so 10 characters out of 35 have some sort of reversal with invincibility and arguments can be made against rog and cody, since you can cleany stuff both of them.

The thing that separates them from Dudley is that they also have a way to zone, turtle, or beat you on the ground with superior footsies. Dudley can't do any of that. When fighting characters that have good anti airs, you're pretty much forced to fight them on the ground where they dominate. The least you can ask for is some kind of reversal so that they don't dominate you in the air too without meter.

a perfectly fair point, if we were agreed that dudley had no extraneous tools that the characters you describe do not possess.

like strong knockdown and corner pressure, easy escapes through fireballs, long pressure strings, juggles, extra health, etc.

since i dont think dudley has been left out in the cold in this regard, i dont really see why dudley should be admitted in the free dp club when he already has so many other tools.

You seem to miss the point of why I brought up third strike. In third strike, CC was invincible on startup, but no one used it because you could just parry and take the momentum. In this game, it starts up slower, has no upper body invuln on startup, and loses to armor breakers. That seems kind of backwards. What made Dudley good in third strike was the range on his normals and parry, so he didn't need invincibility on his uppercut. Now, they've taken all that away and just gave him high damage, which just isn't enough.

maybe, but you also missed the point when i said this isn't third strike.
so to say it again, this isn't third strike.

these are completely different games, with different engines, different toolsets and different characters to balance against, the two dudleys are the same in skin and canon only.

In SF4 when I'm playing a good Ryu and finally get the knockdown, I get scared to even go for the uppercut just because it can lead to me having to fight my way in all over again. I shouldn't have to worry about that too as well as getting jumped in on, where the best I can hope for is blocking the jump in and getting stuck in a block string.

welcome to the majourity of the cast?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'll watch out for Dan's superior footsies next time. Thanks for the heads up.

God's Beard, you played Fei at least in Vanilla right? Any tips for Fei in Super and in general?

Learn to combo out of the Chicken wing, you'll need to rely on it to cover space.
Counter Ultra beats Viper's Burn Kicks.
Tick command throws can be cool.

I dunno, to me Fei Long is more of an execution-heavy character than a strategy heavy one. How well can you hit confirm rekkas, super off the c.MP, etc. His footsies are really good and he can get around fireballs, so it's all about whether you can keep the pressure on and keep chipping away that health.

Make sure you work on your block strings, that first hit of the jab rekkas gets enough chip over time to frustrate your opponents into making mistakes. There are few combos you really need, but the ones that are there are essential. Dragon Kick FADC Chicken Wing, Ultra 1 is really good, you can land it off a command grab which is cool.

You can get some good tips on mixup pressure and such if you youtube some Inthul, Starnab or Mago videos.

Oh yeah, use focus attacks a lot.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Yep.. Cody's got one of the weakest wake up games in the game.

Bad Spray is very unsafe and unreliable and can only be used on tech knockdowns... Regular Zonk is not invulnerable on lower body or can be blocked then punished which leaves with you with EX Zonk.. which makes it as risky as waking up with EX Shoryuken which then can be blocked and lead to punish unless you FADC and then you just burnt 3 bars..

So yea.. Cody kinda sucks under pressure.. Pretty well known fact.

 

[Rentahamster]

GG God's Beard. Didn't know you were unlocking colors, heh, I thought you were testing matchups or something.

 

[Morris]

GGs everyone in the mini tourney.

I was playing like ass because I was kinda nervous, I felt so stupid when I ate that random corner ultra from gundam :lol

Final was close, GS Seph, hella clutch.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

congrats to sephirothrk for taking the tourney, funny that we run into each other in another chat the other day.


Day 1.5 of being without ps3/ssf4. Withdrawals are kicking in. I feel phantom controllers/combos inputs, my hands are empty.

 

["God's Beard!"]

GG God's Beard. Didn't know you were unlocking colors, heh, I thought you were testing matchups or something.

I was unlocking colors and testing movesets if anything :lol
Seriously, though, I just don't have good answers for Dhalsim.

I've done over 75% of the challenges but I still have trouble swapping back and forth between characters. So far I'm comfortable using Fei Long, Dudley, Ibuki, Dhalsim and Ken. I'm can scrub out wins sometimes with Sakura, Ryu, Chun Li, Dan, Akuma, Cody, Cammy, Sagat, Zangief, T.Hawk and Hakan, but pretty much just means characters I know how to land ultras with :lol

I really want to learn Vega, but I hate charge characters with a passion. Yeeeeeeeeeeowdelehee hoooo

 

[Threi]

pfft deejay has no reversals at all so eh.

A zonk would be pretty nice actually.

 

[haunts]

Yep.. Cody's got one of the weakest wake up games in the game.

Bad Spray is very unsafe and unreliable and can only be used on tech knockdowns... Regular Zonk is not invulnerable on lower body or can be blocked then punished which leaves with you with EX Zonk.. which makes it as risky as waking up with EX Shoryuken which then can be blocked and lead to punish unless you FADC and then you just burnt 3 bars..

So yea.. Cody kinda sucks under pressure.. Pretty well known fact.

you're still torturing yourself playing cody?

 

[DarkSloth]

Good mini-tourney, Gyri. Thanks for putting it together. Everyone's play by play was pretty cool too. Haha

I guess we can all safely assume we all played like crap. It was good to finally play Sephi's viper. One day, i'll think about actually blocking a crossup. Are you sure you don't want to split that fight money with the chun's that made it all possible?

I'm encoding the videos that I recorded right now. I can't just directly upload them. Youtube does some weird thing with it. It'll take a while, but I'm sure they'll be up there late tonight for everyone to watch tomorrow.

 

[Nose Master]

pfft deejay has no reversals at all so eh.

A zonk would be pretty nice actually.

Uh, wake up lk up kick? It's about as safe as a wakeup shoryuken, though.

 

[Joekage]

you're still torturing yourself playing cody?

I thrive on the torture and anguish that is not being able to do anything when someone is mixing me up. It builds character lol.

My strategy with Cody is mainly to RTSD except against the vast majority of the cast with 3 frame reversals and what not. . I mean, all I have to do is not get knocked down... How hard can it be xD.

 

[Threi]

Uh, wake up lk up kick? It's about as safe as a wakeup shoryuken, though.

err a wakeup upkick will completely whiff on a crouching opponent/opponent doing a low meaty, not to mention its quite unsafe on block.

You can't crossup/jump in on deejay on wakeup yes but he has no ground reversal. A low meaty will catch him everytime unless he blocks or backdashes. Upkicks will whiff, all of his other specials (ex or not) will be stuffed. I personally think just blocking is underrated though. Breaking pressure doesn't have to be just at wakeup.

*edit* unless you're fighting gief or thawk of course, then you can try risking an spd on block for a reversal upkick.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

you're still torturing yourself playing cody?

Nope I stopped. Just stating the obvious though!

 

[Nose Master]

err a wakeup upkick will completely whiff on a crouching opponent/opponent doing a low meaty, not to mention its quite unsafe on block.

You can't crossup/jump in on deejay on wakeup yes but he has no ground reversal. A low meaty will catch him everytime unless he blocks or backdashes. Upkicks will whiff, all of his other specials (ex or not) will be stuffed.

Ah, yeah, I forgot about crouching :lol

Does that Ryu glitch only work on Elf?

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

err a wakeup upkick will completely whiff on a crouching opponent/opponent doing a low meaty, not to mention its quite unsafe on block.

You can't crossup/jump in on deejay on wakeup yes but he has no ground reversal. A low meaty will catch him everytime unless he blocks or backdashes. Upkicks will whiff, all of his other specials (ex or not) will be stuffed. I personally think just blocking is underrated though. Breaking pressure doesn't have to be just at wakeup.

*edit* unless you're fighting gief or thawk of course, then you can try risking an spd on block for a reversal upkick.

Sounds just as shitty as zonk can be.. :\

At least you cant get crossed up on..

 

[SoulFist]

I still play Cody. You guys just don't know...<_< (Okay maybe you guys do know.)

 

[Threi]

on a related note I pulled an antiair slide > U2 on my cousin today to end one of our matches

the look on his face was priceless :lol

 

[dragonballjoseph]

Cody > Turtle > Cody

All they need to do is make his EX CU come out faster and Cody would be more than solid. But Cody is still a beast of a character. I will always play him

Spoiler

after Bison, Sakura, and Chun

.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

his dmg and stun out put is beast..

but his lack of getting out of pressure is lulz worthy.

 

[Gr1mLock]

every character i play has horrid wake up options..doesn't even bug me anymore

 

[riceandbeans]

you're still torturing yourself playing cody?

I don't see where the hate for Cody comes from. He was one of the most frequent Super characters I ran into besides Dudley and I've seen some people that have a beastly offensive Cody.

 

[gutter_trash]

hey SSF4 Gaf guess what?
I suck with all characters except for Honda.

I tried the new guys, I am a big SF3 Dudley fan but fuck he does not sit well in SSF4 land.

then I go back to Honda... and i cruise control alright vs the usual suspect

fuck me, I am cursed

 

[Rocwell]

You have no dignity.

 

[Nose Master]

I don't see where the hate for Cody comes from. He was one of the most frequent Super characters I ran into besides Dudley and I've seen some people that have a beastly offensive Cody.

He has no answer to any sort of vortex situation. He's fun, but pretty much dead in the water after an untechable knockdown for like half the cast. :lol

 

[haunts]

I don't see where the hate for Cody comes from.

he'll be fine he isnt a real person.

 

[n3ss]

he'll be fine he isnt a real person.

Sad face.

 

[the_log_ride]

Grats to the mini-tourney participants, and Seph for taking it. Big thanks to Gyr for holding it, and my apologies for no-showing. I feel like an ass. Had no internet access for the day, so I just made a day with the family instead. Looking forward to the videos in order to "research" the competition for future matches

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

In SF4 when I'm playing a good Ryu and finally get the knockdown, I get scared to even go for the uppercut just because it can lead to me having to fight my way in all over again. I shouldn't have to worry about that too as well as getting jumped in on, where the best I can hope for is blocking the jump in and getting stuck in a block string.

Right now a good ryu will rape Dudley, and just mean an ok ryu but someone who knows how to zone, combo, fadc ultra and footsies. Online ryu online are a joke thats a fact, but a really good ryu will make Dudley cry... Sadly the way that Dudley is right now is just for good fun and regular match up... Using him at the competition level you are going to get massively exploited on all the small quirks he has. FA'ing his fierce punch on reaction is just one of the mind fucks, you see that sort of thing online, but yeah competition wise bring some tissues .

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

so 10 characters out of 35 have some sort of reversal with invincibility and arguments can be made against rog and cody, since you can cleany stuff both of them.

a perfectly fair point, if we were agreed that dudley had no extraneous tools that the characters you describe do not possess.

like strong knockdown and corner pressure, easy escapes through fireballs, long pressure strings, juggles, extra health, etc.

since i dont think dudley has been left out in the cold in this regard, i dont really see why dudley should be admitted in the free dp club when he already has so many other tools.


maybe, but you also missed the point when i said this isn't third strike.
so to say it again, this isn't third strike.

these are completely different games, with different engines, different toolsets and different characters to balance against, the two dudleys are the same in skin and canon only.


welcome to the majourity of the cast?

Panda, in some regards he is right, but he speaks of competitive level... really at that level there are only about 6-8 viable characters in the game, the rest are just for fun and frills. Against someone like Daigo you better pick wisely... lets face it, Hakan or Dudley will just never measure at that level unless the opponent have no idea what the match up is...

In my opinion the viable characters are : Rufus, Ryu, Viper, Seth, Balrog, Bison, Ken. There might be others, but to really play at that level you need major footsies, easy setup to ultra, combo mechanics and some good reversals. About 1% of the people who play the game will really be able to take advantage of those benefits. For most people they will never feel the disparity between characters...

I'm sure some people will bring up Gamerbee and his Adon, but how much is it about novelty and surprise than high level competition. I doubt once the player know the match up properly we will see many Adons...

 

[voodoopanda]

Panda, in some regards he is right, but he speaks of competitive level... really at that level there are about 6-8 viable characters the rest are just for fun and frills but against someone like Daigo you better pick wisely... lets face it, Hakan or Dudley will just never measure at that level unless the opponent have no idea what the match up is...

In my opinion the viable characters are : Rufus, Ryu, Viper, Seth, Balrog, Bison, Ken. There might be others, but to really play at that level you need major footsies, easy setup to ultra, combo mechanics and some good reversals. About 1% of the people who play the game will really be able to take advantage of those benefits at high level? For most people they will never feel the disparity between characters...

Top 8 at Evo only had 2 of those characters, and I think getting that far proves a character is viable.

 

[Darkman M]

Akuma?

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

Akuma?

Yeah cammy also, was just naming a few... but most of the characters are just not as viable.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

Top 8 at Evo only had 2 of those characters, and I think getting that far proves a character is viable.

This Evo was kind of weird to say the truth. But you can probably add to that list Dhalsim, Honda and Gief... but I don'T believe they are in the same category as say Rufus or Ryu just because of the footsies and easy setups to ultra. They really have an edge at high level.

Both Lamerboi and Vangief got far but locally they never win the tourneys. Weird Evo overall...

 

[voodoopanda]

I wonder how many viable characters we'll end up with if we try to list em all. What about Chun-Li and Abel?

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

I wonder how many viable characters we'll end up with if we try to list em all. What about Chun-Li and Abel?

Not sure but less than half for sure, Chun no abel maybe. Just pointing that some characters will have an easier time at the top of the food chain. Its all about potential, for some it will just end sooner than others.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I wonder how many viable characters we'll end up with if we try to list em all. What about Chun-Li and Abel?

don't pick on him. like he said, only 1% of the player base actually knows who's truly viable or not. =P

 

[Mr Jared]

Both Lamerboi and Vangief got far but locally they never win the tourneys. Weird Evo overall...

Lamerboi won the MGL: Tight or Fight tourney, which was the last NorCal major prior to EVO. Who did he beat in the grand finals? Vance, who won a Shadowbrook and later won the Starbase tourney the week before EVO. The two of them are very regular fixtures within the top 5 of NorCal tourneys since the release of SSF4. If either of them don't win, it's probably because Ricky Ortiz won, and he was 2nd at EVO this year.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

don't pick on him. like he said, only 1% of the player base actually knows who's truly viable or not. =P

Lol, yep so I dont ;p. Just saying its not a good idea to put money down on some chars if you are playing at high level that's all .

 

[dragonballjoseph]

Anyone who believes Chun is not a viable character is bad a Street Fighter.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Not sure but less than half for sure, Chun no abel maybe. Just pointing that some characters will have an easier time at the top of the food chain. Its all about potential, for some it will just end sooner than others.

You have no idea what your are talking about chun can beat any body in SSF4 same goes for Guile who you did not mention.
Edit you have Ken above chun crazy talk .

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

Lamerboi won the MGL: Tight or Fight tourney, which was the last NorCal major prior to EVO. Who did he beat in the grand finals? Vance, who won a Shadowbrook and later won the Starbase tourney the week before EVO. The two of them are very regular fixtures within the top 5 of NorCal tourneys since the release of SSF4. If either of them don't win, it's probably because Ricky Ortiz won, and he was 2nd at EVO this year.

Guess I missed that week, all the times I've watched Lamerboi did not place in the top 3 and vance got close but never won. Yep Ricky usually won when I watched and Filipino champ was mostly second.

 

[SephirothRK]

ggs to all those in the tourney, it was a lot of fun. There was a lot of close matches. Thanks to Gyrian for hosting and gibration for donating the prizes.

Unfortunately for Panda to dc from the tourney I'm looking forward to see the bracket 2 matches, looks like it was hype. Gyrian got awesome text commentary with Eraldo also.

Here's are some of the bracket 1 matches. I'm sorry in advance that I fk up the sound settings while recording...

Bracket 1 - Round 1:
PandaCraft(Hakan) vs. SovMish(Ken)
KobunKun(Chunli) vs. CallMehGod(Guile)
I'm missing Devil Trigger vs LyteEgde match, I thought I saved it
SephirothRK(C. Viper) vs. Exuro45(Chunli)

Bracket 1 - Round 2:
PandaCraft vs. KobunKun didn't happen because Panda dc
lyteedge2(Chunli) vs. SephirothRK(C. Viper)

Bracket 1 - Final
KobunKun(Chunli) vs. SephirothRK(C. Viper)

Grand Finals
SephirothRK(C. Viper) vs. floydnova(Abel)

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

You have no idea what your are talking about chun can beat any body in SSF4 same goes for Guile who you did not mention.

Lol, my fault for naming characters. Now everyone and their crooked eyed sister is going to pick a pitch fork and come running my way hehe .

 

[EraldoCoil]

I say currently there are 20 viable characters out of the cast of 35.

That's just me though, and I'm currently speaking in salty rage form too.