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[sixteen-bit]

Here's an interesting question that my mates were discussing while playing Super the other night: Which new SSF4 characters (if any) do you guys think will endure and become series regulars?

Rufus, Abel, C.Viper, Fuerte

but we won't find out for like, 10 years

 

[Leunam]

Hopefully not Rufus.

Why not? Dudes a beast.

 

[Hugbot]

Why not? Dudes a beast.

He is, but I really don't enjoy the way he fights. I'm down with the character design but I think the other new characters offer much more interesting fighting styles. I, at least, don't even really like watching Rufus fight, much less playing as him.

 

[arstal]

I suspect Juri is the most likely, followed by Fuerte, Viper, and Abel.

Hakan is not popular, and Rufus isn't popular despite being high tier- which means you're REALLY unpopular with the way SF folks tierwhore.

 

[Threi]

Here's some new tier lists since i know everyone loves those:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

Spoiler

Chun-Li
Honda
M. Bison
Guile

Balrog
Cammy
Ryu
Abel
Rufus
Sagat
Seth

Dhalsim
Akuma
Fei L.
Rose
Blanka
Ken
Zangief
Dee Jay
Adon
Ibuki
Vega

Cody
C. Viper
Fuerte

Dudley
Gouken
T. Hawk
Juri
Sakura

Guy
Gen

Dan
Hakan
Makoto

DeeJay/Chun being 4-6 and DeeJay/Rog being even is a load of bullshit btw

*edit* Deejay/THawk NOT in DeeJay's favor? lolwut

 

[sixteen-bit]

I think Juri has as much of a chance of returning as Seth

edit: lol, makoto for fun tier confirmed via eventscrubs

 

[Lost Fragment]

Makoto stuff, featuring kara taunts, and me missing a karakusa into ultra and subsequently scrubbing out.

Notes to self: my pressure strings are sorta predictable and I need to use her aa normals more.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Here's some new tier lists since i know everyone loves those:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

Spoiler

Chun-Li
Honda
M. Bison
Guile

Balrog
Cammy

Spoiler

hey look all the characters I have trouble with Cammy are all above her

 

[arstal]

hey look all the characters I have trouble with Cammy are all above her

That tier list seems spot-on for Rose, I saw all the matchups I have frustration with are 4-6's, incloding Guile. Ryu should be 4-6 or at most 5-5 not 6-4 though.

Juri seems mad popular- if only because she's pervy.

 

[Adam Prime]

FUUUU

I had the worst online matches this morning. I was getting hassled by players with 0 BP and PP. :lol I need a break

Spoiler

or quit

.

It seriously pisses me off to have characters jumping around all over me and I'm too slow to react to hit the DP and punish. I don't think anything makes a SF player feel worse than knowing the only reason you're losing is because you aren't punishing those jump all over the screen scrubs. I want to blame lag ("I'M HITTING THE DAMN INPUT!") But I know, it's actually just because I suck.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

TIER LIST

:lol

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Here's some new tier lists since i know everyone loves those:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

Spoiler

Chun-Li
Honda
M. Bison
Guile

Balrog
Cammy
Ryu
Abel
Rufus
Sagat
Seth

Dhalsim
Akuma
Fei L.
Rose
Blanka
Ken
Zangief
Dee Jay
Adon
Ibuki
Vega

Cody
C. Viper
Fuerte

Dudley
Gouken
T. Hawk
Juri
Sakura

Guy
Gen

Dan
Hakan
Makoto

DeeJay/Chun being 4-6 and DeeJay/Rog being even is a load of bullshit btw

*edit* Deejay/THawk NOT in DeeJay's favor? lolwut

Charge Fighter 4 ???

 

[Beezy]

Here's an interesting question that my mates were discussing while playing Super the other night: Which new SSF4 characters (if any) do you guys think will endure and become series regulars?

Abel, Juri and C. Viper

 

[Nabs]

Kotaku: Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Welcoming New Challengers?

give me Elena so I can troll some folks. (assuming the arcade version = the eventual pc version)

 

[Hitokage]

I wonder if they'll recant and give Gen his mk hands chaining back.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

give me Elena so I can troll some folks. (assuming the arcade version = the eventual pc version)

i'd like Rolento, Urien and Elena

 

[Threi]

:lol

what? I don't play... *double checks tier list* ...Chun-Li so you can't say shit

 

[dragonballjoseph]

I've actually been meaning to ask Art about Sim against Bison. I've always though Bison had a slight edge over him.
Don't agree with his match-ups versus Seth or Freejay though. Everything else seems about right.
And wow at Hakan having an edge over Blanka. And I thought Cammy was supposed to have an edge over Chun.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

what? I don't play... *double checks tier list* ...Chun-Li so you can't say shit

The :lol was aimed at the tier list itself. Some of the choices seem fairly obvious (Makoto seems to have like ZERO options against just about anything) but the rest of it is a bit baffling. Guile certainly seems to be up there considering the boost he got from vanilla, but Rufus and Abel seem too low, almost. They have so many options for so many situations and deal so much effing damage with such simple and short combos/setups, to say nothing of each having a pretty broken U2.

 

[bigmit3737]

I think people are misunderstanding how you use frame data. You don't "count frames" to react to things, you know the frames so you know what you're options are.

For example, I know with cammy that if I do a close st. mp, i'm at +2 on block, so I know that if the other player is gonna mash jab or another normal, I can beat it out with a throw since that's a 3 frame startup, meaning there will be only a 1 frame gap between the st. mp and the throw, and since no normal moves in the game are less than 3 frames, I'll win every time.

I want to stress again that you're not reacting, it's a "read" you make and apply the appropriate knowledge. Once you know that the other player likes to mash on that jab, then a throw after a close st. mp on block is free since you know it'll beat the jab, proven so by the frame data.

There's other ways you can apply that frame data (such as counterhit setups from frame advantage), that's just an example.

What's at good site to get frame data from?

And can someone explain the difference between the negative and positive numbers?


Thank you.

 

[BotoxAgent]

And I thought Cammy was supposed to have an edge over Chun.

On paper, Cammy definitely should have the edge over her. But even when I beat Chun players, I don't feel entirely comfortable in the matchup and sometimes I feel it can go either way.

fuck all Chun players! oh wait, I main Chun too :lol

 

[hikarutilmitt]

What's at good site to get frame data from?

And can someone explain the difference between the negative and positive numbers?


Thank you.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/feb/17/how-read-frame-data-street-fighter-4/ for the frame data and how to read it.

The difference in numbers is the advantage or disadvantage a character is at when the opponent has recovered to a neutral state.

One thing that might help ease the pain of learning frame data is to just classify the moves into "classes" and use that to determine what to use to punish. From there you will eventually learn the special cases that exist and/or just tighten up your game in general.

 

[hitsugi]

Guy is way too high up on that list..

I know Chun is good and all, but I don't know about top. I guess if I had the execution (or knowledge of the inputs) to do c.HP -> lightning leg chains, I could see for myself.

..but since I can't figure out that loop, I haven't bothered trying to play chun.

 

[Hitokage]

Guy is way too high up on that list..

I know Chun is good and all, but I don't know about top. I guess if I had the execution (or knowledge of the inputs) to do c.HP -> lightning leg chains, I could see for myself.

..but since I can't figure out that loop, I haven't bothered trying to play chun.

c HP xx hk legs, mk legs to sweep, c HP, and U1 are all 1 frame links.

 

[BotoxAgent]

I know Chun is good and all, but I don't know about top.

yeah, Chun's shitty matchups (Akuma and Rufus) are still shitty

Akuma is too low

 

[Threi]

I like how according to frame data DeeJay has 5 normals that are at least -3 on hit.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

That tier list seems spot-on for Rose, I saw all the matchups I have frustration with are 4-6's, incloding Guile. Ryu should be 4-6 or at most 5-5 not 6-4 though.

Are you sure about Guile because from what I've heard when watching Evo and other streams is that because she has soul reflect the match up is definitely in her favour.

 

[hitsugi]

c HP xx hk legs, mk legs to sweep, c HP, and U1 are all 1 frame links.

I'm okay with one frame links.. usually.

I just don't know which piano method is used for lightning legs in SF4.. used to 5 taps from CVS2 but that doesn't seem to do it, or I'm just doing it too slowly D: or I end up getting EX legs

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I like how according to frame data DeeJay has 5 normals that are at least -3 on hit.

It's funny how many people don't think most normals are disadvantage on hit until they see the numbers and then actually test them out. It makes you just stop using them other than in combos with other moves.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I wonder if they'll recant and give Gen his mk hands chaining back.

i don't know how much you know about japanese development culture (i'm an expert) but ego and pride are a large part of it

I'd love to see it back though!

 

[dragonballjoseph]

Whenever I do legs/hands, I usually rub my ring finger across all the kick/punch button during the animation of whatever normal I'm using. So I'm never sure which version I'm getting.

 

[Gyrian]

Makoto stuff, featuring kara taunts, and me missing a karakusa into ultra and subsequently scrubbing out.

Notes to self: my pressure strings are sorta predictable and I need to use her aa normals more.

I <3 your karakusa mixups. I aspire to be able to use this move as effectively as you.

Very nice mirror match, and some great Vega matchup tips in that last fight.
Your jump MP against his dive on reaction seems pretty daring.
Seems worth it even when it trades, but will it stuff a grab?

Missing karakusa -> U1 is probably the biggest Makoto wtf moment, and somehow we all do it once in a while (or a little more often, if you're me).

 

[Hitokage]

I'm okay with one frame links.. usually.

I just don't know which piano method is used for lightning legs in SF4.. used to 5 taps from CVS2 but that doesn't seem to do it, or I'm just doing it too slowly D: or I end up getting EX legs

Slide is usually better because of EX concerns.

hp hk mk lk mk hk

 

["God's Beard!"]

Dudley - Blanka is even? :lol That's by far Dudley's best matchup.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Gouken
4 chun
5 honda
4 bison
4 guile
4 balrog
3 cammy They definitely got this right been a tough match since vanilla
4 ryu
4 abel
4 rufus
5 sagat
5 seth
6 dhalsim
5 akuma
4 fei fei can chicken wing all day and gouken can't do anything till he gets ultra
5 rose
4 blanka fuck blanka
5 ken, ken is a harder matchup than ryu
5 zangief
5 deejay
5 adon
4ibuki haven't lost to many ibuki's, but I've raped many goukens using her
4vega this matchup is pretty even
4 cody
5 viper
5 fuerte lol wut
5 dudley, Gouken is fucking pringles for Gouken
-
6 t-hawk
5 juri
5 sakura
5 guy
4 gen
5 dan
6 hakan
6 makoto not sure I agree with this

 

[arstal]

Are you sure about Guile because from what I've heard when watching Evo and other streams is that because she has soul reflect the match up is definitely in her favour.

It's hard to reflect sonic booms. Even tiger shots are easier for me.


The matchup is easier offline.

If Elena's in I got myself a new troll myself. She's the one 3S char I liked.

 

[hitsugi]

Slide is usually better because of EX concerns.

hp hk mk lk mk hk

thanks for the input I'll give that a try later and see if I can't xcopy sako some moar

 

[XenoRaven]

Apparently I need to watch more Japanese tournaments so I can see what a world where Chun-Li is better than Rufus, Ryu, and Balrog looks like.

 

[XenoRaven]

Slide is usually better because of EX concerns.

hp hk mk lk mk hk

I've also seen a more difficult but faster way of doing it if this method is too slow.

HP+MK then tap LK with the thumb of your left hand, then with your right hand LK, MK, HK.

Really weird, but with practice you could probably do it. Both methods have their own set of benefits and drawbacks.

 

[rocK`]

Anyway, I find it more interesting to just arrange by general level and alphabetize per level, working under the assumption most characters in that range are close to each other, chalking up the differences to player differences/error.

TOP - Chun-Li, Guile, Honda, M Bison (Dic)

HIGH - Abel, Balrog (Boxer), Cammy, Rufus, Ryu, Sagat, Seth
MID - Adon, Akuma, Blanka, Dee Jay, Dhalsim, Fei Long, Ibuki, Ken, Rose, Vega, Zangief
LOW - Cody, C. Viper, Dudley, Fuerte, Gouken, Juri, Sakura, T. Hawk

BOTTOM - Dan, Gen, Guy, Hakan, Makoto

Sorry, but your 'alphabetizing' tier list is a terrible idea. Vega and Adon are practically on their own plateaus as far as characters, as well as Juri and Dudley.

 

[depths20XX]

pretty sure that SSFIV arcade poster is just referring to the new additions in super

kotaku is really pulling a stretch on that one

 

[Lost Fragment]

That tier list is bogus. The IPW one should be the standard for now, imho.

Your jump MP against his dive on reaction seems pretty daring.
Seems worth it even when it trades, but will it stuff a grab?

I think it should as long as you get it out early enough since it has a lot of reach and a ton of active frames. Haven't spent a lot of time testing that, though.

 

[riceandbeans]

pretty sure that SSFIV arcade poster is just referring to the new additions in super

kotaku is really pulling a stretch on that one

Nah, possible DLC characters were mentioned a while back. We'll found out on the 23rd anyway, maybe even tomorrow depending on Comic Con so it's no big deal.

 

[Brobzoid]

Just got off xbox live. Played twenty matches against a Dudley player (beat me 11-9) with my Adon. He was pretty on top of his stuff and was totally nice like everyone I've played against on live. :3

I don't know what you people do to get hatemail...

 

[Lost Fragment]

I don't know what you people do to get hatemail...

I get more "ggs" and compliments than I do hatemail. Though curiously, I get more hatemail when I use Makoto than when I use Viper or Cammy for some reason.

 

[hitsugi]

I get more "ggs" and compliments than I do hatemail. Though curiously, I get more hatemail when I use Makoto than when I use Viper or Cammy for some reason.

they can't stand losing to supposed trash tier

 

[Threi]

That tier list is bogus. The IPW one should be the standard for now, imho.

Don't be mad that DeeJay is now the king of the new challengers

 

[Onion_Relish]

I Think this tier list is perfect, not because the matchups are all exactly right, but because the game is so fluid and well balanced that the top tier consists of about 20 characters. The game is so good that people cant even figure out who the best characters are! Characters like C. Viper and Dhalsim go from being lower on the list to being unbeatable gods in the right hands.

Pick your favorite and go with it. SSF4 is awesome

EDIT: Something worth noting
1st is supposedly Chun Li
20th is supposedly Adon

Chun li has 21 more "quality points than adon", but if you take away the last ten players, it drops to only 11 points. 11 points spread across the breadth of over 20 characters is less than .5 per, which is nothing

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Matchups matter in this game more than just which tier your character is in. If you main Chun-Li or E.Honda, you're still not invincible.

 

[YakiSOBA]

Hey guys, how can I join SSF4 GAF on PSN chat? I'm on mostly at nights (EST) and would love to get some matches in with you guys.

Instructions please!

Anyone?