Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
You've got a short memory then.
Super Tuesday 4. I'm really feeling (The After Bern) March 22, 26 contests
- Thread starter NeoXChaos
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You've got a short memory then.
Vermont is a small state with little crime, but the crime that does exist is drug crime.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-vermont-has-a-drug-problem-2013-10
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/02/vermont-heroin-capital-of-america-103280
Eighthy percent. Wow
Those people are not in jail for marijuana possession. That's only a fine, it won't get you behind bars. Those people are in jail for either possession of harder drugs (heroin) or dealing and/or trafficking.
It's a result of Burlington's position on the way to Montreal.
Frankly, I think "even though people say they think X, I think they actually think Y" is basically the lowest form of posting. There's no way to engage with it -- people are already saying you're wrong and you've decided you're right anyway. About somebody else's mind!
This is depressingly common in threads like these. (And yes, Cerium is an example of a Hillary supporter that does this a lot, which is why he's banned now.)
In '08? There's no way some of them weren't. It was bad.
The thing about Hillary's campaign, though- aside from some examples of Bill mouthing off, they didn't try to feed the trolls. She and Obama stayed away from character attacks on each other -sticking to other areas. The attacks were still hard and furious, but they weren't things that would tarnish the opponent in the general. Bernie's campaign, however, has not held itself to that standard.
There isn't any data here on the racial breakdowns for what people are incarcerated for or if they are out of state.
soul creator
Member
I get a general vibe that the vast majority of Democrats like Bernie Sanders when he's just a lonely senator popping up in a youtube/cspan video every now and then ("yeah, finally someone saying something that needed to be said! Finally, some truth!"), and voting to support their bills, but now that he's saying those same exact things in a national election against Hillary Clinton as a Democratic Party candidate, or saying that the Democratic Party, shock and awe, isn't always the best representation of those ideals, it's suddenly a problem, snake oil, unrealistic, damaging, etc.
I guess it's cool for crazy Uncle Bernie to yell about income inequality, Wall Street, and single payer health care when he's by himself in the Senate, but doing the same thing with a larger platform is unserious. It's a presidential election, so it's time to let the "real" grownups handle business. Go back to yelling from the Senate floor, Mr. Sanders, your loony populism is unpresidential! (but I'll go back to loving you again when I see you on youtube next year though)
I guess it's cool for crazy Uncle Bernie to yell about income inequality, Wall Street, and single payer health care when he's by himself in the Senate, but doing the same thing with a larger platform is unserious. It's a presidential election, so it's time to let the "real" grownups handle business. Go back to yelling from the Senate floor, Mr. Sanders, your loony populism is unpresidential! (but I'll go back to loving you again when I see you on youtube next year though)
gutter_trash
Banned
538 targets have been updated
Hillary dropped from 110% to 107% target
Bernie bumped up to 91%
April schedule is so sparse
think the dead time until NY then the following week on the East Coast ends up benefiting Hillary to kill the short term bernmentum
Hillary dropped from 110% to 107% target
Bernie bumped up to 91%
April schedule is so sparse
think the dead time until NY then the following week on the East Coast ends up benefiting Hillary to kill the short term bernmentum
Big Baybee
Member
He's been criticizing a popular black president since before he became president. He said some messed up things.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...6/01/22/how-cornel-west-hurts-bernie-sanders/
No, people who see things like this:
Realize he is unelectable because after 6 months of Republicans hammering the airways with it no one will vote for him.
come again?
That is until you watch some of those old videos, and realise that in many instances he basically predicted foreign policy repercussions almost exactly, and had people followed his deeply unpopular opinion at the time, they might have been trillions of dollars more well off, and had hundreds of thousands more innocent lives still with them today
I actually believe both. But I think it'll be easier to hold Hillary to the progressive fire than to change the status quo in Washington overnight which is what Bernie stands for.
I just don't think the groundworks been done yet for a candidate like Bernie to be successful, and I absolutely fear having one too soon would be a huge setback to progressive politics.
Change in Washington had always been done in one of two ways; large coalitions building contiuentcies that all politicians have to respond to; or taking advantage of a crisis.
Electing figureheads without the deep support in place usually does more harm than good.
There isn't any data anywhere on that
The fact is that Vermont is a small state of ~625,000, with roughly 0.5% of them being black, so ~3125 black Vermonters. That's a very small sample size. But all of the data I'm seeing is showing that the percent of blacks in Vermont jails only increased significantly over the past decade, when they stepped up the drug war due to the state's heroin epidemic.
In an effort to curb the heroin epidemic, the drug war has gotten more intense in Vermont. There is absolutely no data I can find on how many of them are from out of state, but if Vermont only has three thousand odd black people then the ones who are in prison there can't all have been from Vermont.
Big Baybee
Member
He has to say this, but I hope he really doesn't go to the convention.
Aaronology
Member
Truth.
What else is he supposed to say- "I'm definitely going to lose, there's no point in voting for me?" If he said that then people would just complain that he's a bad politician.
I don't get why the states wait so long with this. Why is California, especially, second-to-last among the states? That's more or less voluntarily reducing their own impact on the process.
It's not a content free argument, and you're missing the point entirely if you water down the visibility point to who's more famous. Of course Hillary has Bernie beat there. But she also had Obama beat there and that didn't stop him from winning the black vote. So clearly, we're talking about something else.
You've gotta remember that we're in the Democratic Primaries right now, and we're talking about two candidates for the nomination who, as much as Bernie's supporters like to swear otherwise, agree on pretty much everything. Where they disagree largely is on focus and implementation, but on overall goals they're on the same page. So this isn't a content free argument because the content really doesn't matter. On paper, when it comes to racial equality and injustice, these candidates are saying the same thing.
So when there are no real policy differences, the argument then becomes Who do I know? Who's been around? Who can I trust to get things done? Who is less of a risk? Who is demonstrating an understanding of me and my community? And who is just paying me lip service? And this is where Bernie loses the black vote. Because Hillary Clinton, for all her flaws (and yes, black people ARE aware of them), has been around, and has done a lot of good. Has worked with and for our community. Has the support of black leaders, and knows how to get things done. And when it came time to stump, she demonstrated a better understanding of our issues. She was willing to acknowledge that racism, and racism alone, was a force keeping black people down that needed to be acknowledged. She talked about intersectionality, and WHY this is the reason you can't just address the economy and expect the rising tide to lift black boats. She engaged black women (THE most dedicated democratic voting block, PERIOD) and spoke not just about their problems, but their aspirations. Black women (minority women in general, actually) are the fastest growing block of business owners in this country, and by a LOT (Royalan aside: YAAAAAAAASSS LADIES WORK), and to this day Hillary is the only candidate stumping that I've heard acknowledge this. And this didn't just start a week before the South started voting. Hillary's been doing this for years.
Meanwhile, Bernie threw out some well-produced ads and absolutely refused to modulate his message outside of Millionaires and Billionaires. He never really ENGAGED like Clinton did. He expected throwing out MLK's name would be enough for black people to just take his word for it. But it wasn't enough, because black DON'T know him, and he really hasn't done shit to introduce himself.
"We have a lot of work left to do. Right now, we're not in the best place, so I need my supporters to do everything they can to get out the vote and inform their friends and families about my policies."
What's the point in creating a delusional narrative?
I vehemently disagree with this notion and sentiment. There is no such groundwork requirement besides public support, and the time is as good now as it is any other. All Sanders (or any really progressive candidate) needs from the public is the support and the mandate, once he has that, it doesn't matter how much obstruction he faces, in many cases it works to his benefit. The more the Republicans obstruct the will and mandate of the people, the less popular and more disliked they become. But the attempt at a truly progressive policy shift is the most important thing, and what America desperately needs right now.
Also, you'll get your crisis. Not only do you have one in the Middle East right now, but I'm confident another economic recession is around the corner, and it would be the perfect opportunity for someone like Bernie to really put down the hammer and make legitimate changes.
It's a pretty understandable position based on his integrity and policies. It's no surprise to anyone that Obama ended up having a center left government, which from West point of view was a huge treason in terms of principles and the middle class. He pretty much slayed Obama with his Rockefeller phrase.
Of course in terms of pr that could be a very unpopular thing, it's gonna push away a lot of democrats who like Obama but at the very least, it's not a phony pandering message for trying to appeal to a voting base.
Gonna ask again if someone read Black Prophetic Fire and if it's a good introduction to Dr West.
And the WP explanation about "tickets" is so condescending.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Everything that needs to be known is right there in the word superdelegate. The mere mention of it shows he that he knows the pledged delegate lead is not going to be overcome so he keeps talking about the supers. I just don't see why they'd switch at this point unless Clinton loses every single state remaining.
soul creator
Member
No, people who see things like this:
Realize he is unelectable because after 6 months of Republicans hammering the airways with it no one will vote for him.
Well, that goes with the "unserious" point I mentioned. The scope of political discussion is so skewed in this country that any tax increases are considered "unserious ideas", regardless of whatever benefits are actually offered by them (or even whether the taxes are calculated correctly!). It seems like it's ok to advocate for public, progressive ideas (which, by all rational observation of the evidence available worldwide, will require some degree of tax increases, and not just on the rich), but we don't want to do it too loudly, or else the Republicans will hurt us!
Instead of finding a way to actually sell how those tax increases would benefit American society (and in a lot of ways, save us money in the long term), it seems we'd rather just avoid the issue and kick the can down the road some more. So more tax increases only on $250,000+ incomes, even though that likely won't solve the actual problems we claim to care about.
Because after all, the Republicans are coming! Which is certainly a fair argument I suppose, but we've been electing "serious" Democratic candidates for the past 30 years, and the terms of debate are still framed and dominated by right-wing terminology, and certain issues (such as income inequality) have continued to worsen, regardless of whether Democrats or Republicans are in office. In fact, some Democrats have actually consciously worsened those issues!
And note, I said "certain issues", not "every issue", so I'm not making a "Democrats and Republicans are exactly the same in every possible way!" argument.
Not sure what else to say. Some people like "truth-tellers" when they have relatively little influence, but get worried when they start to have more influence. I guess it's partially a fear-based argument ("yeah he's cool and all, but we can't risk a Republican, so he should quiet down for now"). Which is fine, but it's amusing to see when some supposed progressives then start using right wing talking points to criticize him. It often seems like the "he's unelectable" argument is the only thing to grasp onto, so when he starts showing he is electable, we then have to reach into other arguments to criticize him. And since you can't really criticize him from the left, that leads to the centrist and/or right wing talking points coming out. (Well, the hardcore left can certainly criticize him, but the average Clinton supporter isn't really hardcore left)
I'll clarify also that if someone just genuinely believes in Clinton's ideas more than Sanders' ideas, that's fine, and kind of a separate topic. I'm more speaking to the "I actually like Sanders' ideas more, but you know they're unrealistic, and he isn't electable, so Clinton is the way to go" segment of the population.
Big Baybee
Member
I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men, West said. Its understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, hes always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening.
Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive, West said. He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination. It is understandable.
Fuck outta here. This shit isn't reasonable or understandable.
That's really cute. He's pretending to give a damn about winning still. He cares, but if he really cared about winning, he would've gone after Clinton a lot harder from the beginning, something he avoids even now, simply underhandedly attacking her by saying "unlike some who take money from Wall Street".
I get the feeling that Phase 1 Bernie in this campaign was him announcing he's running in 2015, but not actually believing he can win.
Then, the "oh shit" Phase 2 where he saw much more enthusiasm than thought, but still didn't think he can win.
Then the Clinton began to be battered in the summer with stupid email scandals and the surge of Trump, but Bernie still was unsure of how far to go, which explains his reluctance to attack her from several fronts and his reluctance to hire a pollster for his campaign or set-up any infrastructure beyond the February states. He ignored the AA and Latino vote too long, further proof he didn't take a possible win seriously.
My fear is that he's about to buy into the belief he can truly knock Hillary from the nomination and win like that in the general. No candidate has turned the nomination around from April to June and gone on to win in the general.
He's misreading general election polls of him beating Trump or other Republicans by big margins, not knowing that he's polling better than Hillary because he's been barely hit by negative messaging, unlike Hillary. I'm not saying he can't win, he sure can, especially against Trump, but these early polls shouldn't be a factor in his decision to turn the nomination fight ugly. He's going to walk the delicate line between making his supporters believe he has a chance and not burning any bridges with the rest of the Democratic Party.
I get the impression that he doesn't go after Hillary personally because he denounces how the decayed political process is in the states and would rather show his position on matters, especially when the media will always try to play him against her and compare them in an unfavorable way. He has gone after her now but mostly in terms of policies and facts about where she stands. When Hillary said in that she never saw Sanders when she was leading the health reform in the 90's and later a video surfaced of Hillary personally thanking Bernie on all he did to help her and how it wouldn't have been possible without him and having Bernie literally standing right behind her made me sick to my stomach.
I'm not black so I don't wanna put any personal stake on this, but him being a scholar and a black activist gives him credibility to denounce a wolf in a sheep costume from what he has seen. Using the black community as a way of displacing Obama from it is a very serious insult but not one which he throws lightly I'd imagine.
It's a shallow and inaccurate way to see this election.Probably old but
As a european this is pretty much how I see this election
Probably old but
As a european this is pretty much how I see this election
Saying that 'as a European I look at the election through fantasy novel tropes' is not a positive.
It's mostly untrue and reductive as well.
Big Baybee
Member
Blacks have largely abandoned West after he hurled so many personal insults for so long. Obama has done some good, especially in regards to criminal justice. I'm sure he'd have done more had he had a progressive congress for more than a couple of years.
In fairness, I understand all European elections as episodes of Hetalia: Axis Powers.
Aaronology
Member
Yes. Hillary is disliked by everyone everywhere.... which is why people keep voting for her so enthusiastically over Bernie Sanders.Probably old but
As a european this is pretty much how I see this election
Or possibly you're spending too much time on the internet.
How left, though? I expect she'll appoint a handful of centrist judges who don't hate gay people and have relatively liberal views on race.
And world poltics as that mahjong manga?
Night Angel
Member
I love when people post that kind of inane bullshit. It really emphasizes how much an echo chamber impacts people's perception.
Karsticles
Member
That's how many Americans view it, too. Thanks for the image.
Bedameister
Member
I'd still hit Bernie tho.
But we need to start somewhere. Bernie Sanders is trying to fix some of this country's biggest problems, which Clinton doesn't seem willing to address. Even if Sanders cannot pursue every part of his agenda, he'll lay the groundwork, just like Bill Clinton did for universal healthcare.
The rapidly growing wealth gap has really dangerous implications for our society, and it's one of the few societal issues that doesn't show any signs of getting better. Bernie is also far stronger when it comes to climate change, that distant specter that most politicians don't even want to address.
Well, Hillary did have her own Walk of Shame that she prevailed with and won the hearts of millions again, The Trials of Benghazi.Probably old but
As a european this is pretty much how I see this election
Ogrekiller
Member
Hillary also makes a better Sarah Connor.
Chill guys. I'm not american. I'm not voting so my voice doesn't matter.
I know it's VERY reductive and mostly untrue. No need to tell me that. But when you're an outsider and if you look at it through the reddit/social media lens that's pretty much how you see candidates.
I'd say that the depiction of Ted Cruz as nightwalker is pretty accurate though lol
Why?
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Even if none of his ideas get through, he's the more honest candidate and better on foreign policy.
Big Baybee
Member
Because the race is over and I was sacred to death when Hillary did it in 2008. Lose gracefully, that's all I'm saying.
Probably old but
As a european this is pretty much how I see this election
Nah, Hillary is Tyrion. Calling her Cersei is an insult to her experience and cunning
Again, why is that bad? Are his positions too left for your tastes? I don't expect Bernie to be the nominee, but I really hope he uses all of his spotlight to keep explaining the reality of class oppression and supporting down-ticket progressives
No he's not.
He's the "least attacked" candidate. That does not make him more honest.
If every word he said was being picked apart like Hillary, he wouldn't be viewed as being so honest. He's getting a big leg up simply due to nobody really focusing on him.
Ogrekiller
Member
In that case then Bernie should be Jon Snow. At least Daenerys actually did shit and is still alive.
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