BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah, Supernaturals treatment of female guest characters continues to be bad :l
For once can't we just let one of them live? Eileen was cool, too.
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Supernatural Season 12 |OT| Mama, I'm Coming Home
- Thread starter PhoncipleBone
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Yeah, Supernaturals treatment of female guest characters continues to be bad :l
For once can't we just let one of them live? Eileen was cool, too.
Part of the issue is they introduce so many female characters to help build up the world around them that when they look to kill someone off 99% of the time it'll have to be a woman.
I mean, if we made a list of auxiliary characters I'd bet dollars to donuts that it's mostly women. I mean, for guys there's Garth and that male witch. They killed the rest off already.
And Garth likely isn't coming back no matter what.
Given the main cast is all men, they kinda have to introduce female characters but then because they can't kill Cas or Crowley off so guess who they get stuck killing when it comes time to set the stakes? At least last season Metatron ate it.
There's also the cop witch and the owner of the golem.
Haven't watched the episode yet but if that's how it really is, I'm going to be extremely pissed. And someone else said she doesn't even have a line of dialogue (I know she's deaf, but whatever) then fuck the people behind this show.
I'll never get these mega overreactions. Like you haven't even watched the ep, you're just reading posts and going "guess I better be irrationally angry."
NoblesseOblige
Banned
If its an angel or demon then its powers and abilities are retconned every other episode.
This show has never given me cause to expect the better, especially when it comes to this specific issue. Regardless, I did watch the episode and my overreaction and irrational anger is once again justified.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Guh what a frustrating episode.
Killing off a massive amount of side characters for the hell of it feels more for contractual than storytelling reasons.
Either we are gonna get a big reveal that they are all actually alive or this is just it for all of them.
On to the meat of the episode though, why was LITERALLY NO ONE IN THE ROOM SURPRISED WHEN LUCIFER STABBED CROWLEY AND SPARKS DIDNT GO EVERYWHERE?! Holy shit that was genuinely awful.
The shoot out in the bunker culminating with a "lol we will suffocate you so you guys can escape at the last second instead of shoot you" was also just painfully contrived.
This show has officially lost the ability to build any sort of tension, especially with regards to the main characters and their life.
I am fully expecting mary to snap out of it and sacrifice herself to save her boys in the finale. If she lives I might actually just be done.
Killing off a massive amount of side characters for the hell of it feels more for contractual than storytelling reasons.
Either we are gonna get a big reveal that they are all actually alive or this is just it for all of them.
On to the meat of the episode though, why was LITERALLY NO ONE IN THE ROOM SURPRISED WHEN LUCIFER STABBED CROWLEY AND SPARKS DIDNT GO EVERYWHERE?! Holy shit that was genuinely awful.
The shoot out in the bunker culminating with a "lol we will suffocate you so you guys can escape at the last second instead of shoot you" was also just painfully contrived.
This show has officially lost the ability to build any sort of tension, especially with regards to the main characters and their life.
I am fully expecting mary to snap out of it and sacrifice herself to save her boys in the finale. If she lives I might actually just be done.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
A lot of the episode was stupid. Along with the above I also thought it dumb that the BMoL are making pacts with demons. Also Mary getting taken down by a punch from Toni, and then thinking she could plead sympathy out of Ketch was eye rolling.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I took the whole BMoL working with crowley secretly as a really bad way to make the audience be like "whoa dude they are like hypocrites and evil and stuff!" because I guess after everything the writers still aren't sure if we got the memo that they suck?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Oh and I could have sworn the BMoL base was warded against Angels. You'd think it'd also be warded against demons to prevent them from just popping in whenever. Especially considering the Winchesters are BFFs with the King of Hell.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I always figured that was just a visual aid for the viewer
the only time they see smoke is during an exorcism.
HeartlessNobody213
Member
Season has been wack ever since Kelly got pregnant.
Have to agree with most that it was trash how they killed Eileen off like a random.
The back and forth between Luci and Crowley was fun at first but has now gone on way too long.
Now we have brainwashing bs as well?!?!
Kind of ready for this season to be over and hope season 13 is better.
Have to agree with most that it was trash how they killed Eileen off like a random.
The back and forth between Luci and Crowley was fun at first but has now gone on way too long.
Now we have brainwashing bs as well?!?!
Kind of ready for this season to be over and hope season 13 is better.
BoxManLocke
Member
My guess is he performed a spell. The same kind Rowena used to put Olivette inside the hamster.
Hence the lack of smoke.
I wish they had killed Crowley. Guy has been useless for years. It's totally fine to kill promising young characters every week but old ass characters that add nothing are off limits.
Coming off of the amazing season 11, season 12 has been pretty terrible. I guess with the new show runner (Andrew Dabb who was responsible for that horrible Bloodlines spinoff episode) along with Robbie Thompson leaving the writing team has really hurt this show. Turns out maybe Jeremy Carver wasn't so bad after all...
There has been at least a handful of solid episodes but a lot of boring episodes, plots that don't make sense and/or go nowhere along with other signs of bad writing has left this season as one of my least favorite seasons for this show.
Let's hope the 2-part series finale next week can turn things around...
There has been at least a handful of solid episodes but a lot of boring episodes, plots that don't make sense and/or go nowhere along with other signs of bad writing has left this season as one of my least favorite seasons for this show.
Let's hope the 2-part series finale next week can turn things around...
She was drugged to hell and back and realized she was being made to murder people.
Cas is with us until the end.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Remember when we first met Crowley and he was watching silent Nazi propaganda, and had a Hitler-esque painting of himself in a Nazi uniform? That's currently a fan favorite borderline good guy 'team member'.
rackham
Banned
Don't really care that Eileen died. She wasn't interesting and every single person in this show dies. Get the fuck over it people. Stop making it into a sexism issue with females dying on this show.
The only thing that pissed me off this episode was how Dean didn't immediately shoot Catch or that other British lady. So stupid.
Crowley also straight up murdered an innocent girl in front of Sam and Dean because they took Kevin (prophet)
I like Crowley's actor but I'll never get how they keep glossing over the fact that Crowley is indeed a villain.
The only thing that pissed me off this episode was how Dean didn't immediately shoot Catch or that other British lady. So stupid.
Crowley also straight up murdered an innocent girl in front of Sam and Dean because they took Kevin (prophet)
I like Crowley's actor but I'll never get how they keep glossing over the fact that Crowley is indeed a villain.
BoxManLocke
Member
I mean, you made the connection from "old ass characters that add nothing" to Castiel by yourself.
I've always thought that Castiel had potential. But they always squander it by sticking him in boring subplots.
Crowley however is way past saving and it has been that way since season 10.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Sounds like you maybe need to get over people having an opinion you may not like.
rackham
Banned
It's not an opinion, it's a fake over reaction. Females on this show are almost always shown as top hunters.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
I hope so. But she specifically said all hunters will die then moved onto say Jody Mills, Claire Novak, and all your (forgot what she referred to as em by) friends are dead.
While I agree that it's a problem in general, it becomes more obvious with women.
Robbie Thompson introduced a lesbian and a deaf woman. Then the same writing duo wrote the episodes that killed both of them off in an anti-climactic fashion that was done for no other reason than to give the brothers more angst. That's a problem.
And they were pushing the connection between her and Sam, yet we barely got to see it. And then she didn't even get a single line of dialogue. Just a random death. It was badly done.
There is a problem with the way women are treated on this show overall. Misha Collins himself called it out at a convention once.
Well we see Jody next week, so she's alive.
For now.
They stuck him into boring subplots because he was to much a Deux Ex Machina. Then they nerf the shit out him and turn him into just another hunter.
Cas adds to the show but everything they did to him to stop him from being the one stop solution doesn't make it worth it in my opinion.
cartoon_soldier
Member
When was the last time we had a 2 hour season finale?
rackham
Banned
Counter point, how many male recurring characters on this show are alive compared to females? Being deaf doesn't entitle you to life on this show. Honestly, I'd be more annoyed if Eileen was somehow the one lucky hunter to get an amazing arc, knowing that she's deaf and her hunting alone would be bullshit as all hell.While I agree that it's a problem in general, it becomes more obvious with women.
Robbie Thompson introduced a lesbian and a deaf woman. Then the same writing duo wrote the episodes that killed both of them off in an anti-climactic fashion that was done for no other reason than to give the brothers more angst. That's a problem.
And they were pushing the connection between her and Sam, yet we barely got to see it. And then she didn't even get a single line of dialogue. Just a random death. It was badly done.
There is a problem with the way women are treated on this show overall. Misha Collins himself called it out at a convention once.
Well we see Jody next week, so she's alive.
For now.
I also think it was more of an impact on Sam to have her die suddenly. It reminded him of their line of work and how death is never easy.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
Well we see Jody next week, so she's alive.
For now.
Unless we just see her dead or how she died D:. But yeah you're right, so she is alive atm, I guess whatsherface just lied to make Dean & Sam hurt more.
I get how Crowley snuck into the hamster with no one seeing. I don't get how none of the demons loyal to Crowley noticed hey, lack of a demon face on Crowley before the stabbing, and no red glow, and no reaction to being stabbed. Lucifer not noticing could make a little sense, perhaps he's not at full power and it's causing him to not see a demons true face? As for MoL working with Crowley I guess they found it easier to just bargain with the King of Hell instead of always having to face an endless barrage of demons. And trapping them in the bunker is sadistic(we know they'll escape obviously, but Ketch doesn't think they will) he wants them to die of suffocation, pretty brutal...doesn't make sense though, he ruthlessly shoots people and now he's just letting them live instead of finishing the job? Shitty way to prolong the story Supernatural.
BoxManLocke
Member
First of all, that's not even true. Charlie, Claire, Alex and Jody weren't even hunters to begin with. Neither is Rowena.
The truth is the percentage of female characters getting killed is much higher and there's something weirdly sadistic about the way they've been killing them off lately
I completely agree and I also think Castiel isn't going away.
If this season gets rid of Crowley and Lucifer I'll be happy though.
It was just awkward. Lucifer would know better.
I think the second half of this season has overall been awesome but issues like that get frustrating. Like how the writers forgot -- again -- that shifters can't just magically transform. They have to shed skin. Only the alpha shifter could do that and he's dead.
But last week they had the shifter posing as Mary turn into Ketch. They did that in the backdoor "Bloodlines" pilot too but at least that is something that everyone basically forgot about.
the reason the female characters are getting killed more is because theres more of them. theres literally only a handful of male mortals in the series.
most of them have been killed in the same senseless way, sans the people throwing up arms
BoxManLocke
Member
That's where I have to disagree.
Anyway, killing off Eileen a week after Tasha and Alicia was incredibly stupid of them and I'm glad they're getting torn to shreds.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I wanna say season 2 lol.
BoxManLocke
Member
Season 6. And that was the only time.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Oh yeah! The other heavily confused and severly disjointed season with a billion subplots.
Wasn't season 2s finale a two parter? That's kinda like 2hrs.
BoxManLocke
Member
Exactly.
Putting both episodes the same night is just a weak attempt at making it seem the storylines are connected. But it's already clear from the press release that we are dealing with completely separate episodes that should not have aired together.
It's the only one that felt like it but nope, aired in different weeks lol
mick got shot in the head, then just left in a box
rufus got stabbed.
kevin got his eyes burned out and turned into a ghost
both ash and hendriksen died off screen
and gavin was sent to the past to die on the boat
BoxManLocke
Member
You really want to go back 10 years earlier to make a list ? There wasn't an issue with character deaths when Kripke was in charge.
The outrage is happening now because it's focused on two writers who have been here since season 7, and they're the ones who have killed Charlie and Eileen among others. Not to mention it was a shit episode which didn't help.
Well no, it definitely was a two-parter. But yes, it aired in separate weeks.
I didn't mind the Alicia thing as much because she's still around. I thought that was a super inventive/unique standalone and am excited to see them again.
BoxManLocke
Member
I liked the character but I'm not looking forward to see her again because she's pretty much a shell now, and if they see them again the brothers are going to have to deal with the situation which means it'll most likely be their last episode.
Don't you dare
That's what I'm hoping doesn't happen. Because I think Mary has been great in the second half of the season, silly brainwashing aside.
Seriously, everyone is expecting that to happen. So that's when the writers shouldn't do it. Stop killing people. Find things to do with those characters.
Sam's interaction with Eileen was more fun to watch than her dying. Having the boys have a fun hacker friend was more interesting than seeing her dead in a bathtub because they wrote her out of character for a random episode. Etc.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
LMAO OH MY GOD NOW THAT YOU HAVE ME THINKING ABOUT IT THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN SEASONS 6 AND 12 ARE STAGGERING
Dead family member brought back for no real reason
Lucifer hangs around (even though im s6 he was in sams mind)
Cas is involved with the bringing about an all powerful being and has a brainwashed power trip
Crowley is double crossing everything
A really lame attempt to bring back standard monster of the week hunts into relevance (s6 had alphas and grandpa sam's hunters, this season just had them because there was nothing else to do i guess?)
There is a group that looks like they are doing good but are clearly not. (bmol and grandpa sams hunters)
There was a more interesting baddie that was unceremoniously defeated half way through (mother of all and lucifer, though luci is obviously sticking around, technically you could also make the argument for billy)
The Colt came back for like a minute.
Though my memory could be failing me here there are a lot of hilariously similar beats.
In an awesome heartbreaking kickass moment. That one was worth it.
BoxManLocke
Member
Most of all, it's the lack of focus, the crappy pacing and the general impression of messiness that stick out the most.
In season 6, Sera Gamble had the excuse of being the first new showrunner, and she had no experience, so it was easy to forgive the shortcomings.
Dabb has seen three different people run the show and he's making the exact same mistakes when it comes to handling a full 22 episodes season.
I think there are some character-related improvements (Sam and Dean) and I think the standalone episodes are of much higher quality in season 12, but there are some things I'm about to lose hope for. Like Castiel and Crowley getting better at some point. Like the writers moving away from Lucifer at some point. Like not killing good characters every two weeks.
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