Switch 2 T239 SoC rumored to be on TSMC 5nm and clocked at 2.6 GHz (info found on a LinkedIn profile of an engineer who worked on the project)
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
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Guerilla Munch
Member
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I also found this comment on reddit rather sensible with regards to the old and tired "Nintendo are cheap" trope.
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Rocco Schiavone
Member
Good to hear this means finally above PS5 performance.
After PS4 graphics Level, better Raytracing than PS5, we finally reach better PS5 performance.
After PS4 graphics Level, better Raytracing than PS5, we finally reach better PS5 performance.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Check the reddit thread, folks there have stated that kopite7kimi has gotten plenty of things wrong in the past, including details on the T239 SoC itself.
Woopah
Member
It's believable yes. Much more than the 4chan rubbish.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I genuinely am starting to think people who say this won't be somewhat competitive with PS and Xbox are fooling themselves. At the very least, Switch 2 seems like it'll be trading blows with the Series S.
And as gimped a product that's turned out to be, it's still getting a shit ton of 3P support, including from Western and Japanese AAA, stuff that's traditionally skipped Nintendo's platforms the past 15 years.
Bring the heat, Nintendo.
And as gimped a product that's turned out to be, it's still getting a shit ton of 3P support, including from Western and Japanese AAA, stuff that's traditionally skipped Nintendo's platforms the past 15 years.
Bring the heat, Nintendo.
alucard0712_rus
Banned
Every fucking time! 
For that to be the case with base performance at 15W, you would need a 5X improvement in performance/watt vs. the Series S.
balls of snow
Member
Goodluck selling to mainstream at 500 usd. Youre nintendo, not apple.
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Portugeezer
Member
Is that good? Is it expensive?
If yes and yes, then it's not Switch 2.
If yes and yes, then it's not Switch 2.
Thirty7ven
Banned
5nm?
That guy is an idiot because it's not about bang for buck, it's about how much it costs to produce the fucking thing. They have to price the final product under 400$.
I also found this comment on reddit rather sensible with regards to the old and tired "Nintendo are cheap" trope.
That guy is an idiot because it's not about bang for buck, it's about how much it costs to produce the fucking thing. They have to price the final product under 400$.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I think they can do it in docked mode, though. There, power usage would be less of a concern, they'd have more headroom for power so more headroom for clocks and thermals.
OverHeat
« generous god »
400$ why?
Guerilla Munch
Member
lmao no they do not
the original switch is still $350, six years after launch
a $500 next gen switch would be sold out for a year+
Trogdor1123
Member
Pssh, take your t239 filthy away. Snake on a ti-83 is where it is at.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Nintendo has never topped $300 for its basic models yet. I very much doubt they ever will want to.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
because not everyone can afford $20,000 gaming machines like certain gaffers I know.
kazuyamishima
Member
Is not, it launched at $299, then 2 years and a half later they released the lite for $199, and 4 years and a half later the OLED for $349.
Doubt it will sell like hotcakes for $500.
Mister Wolf
Member
It would sell at a faster rate than the PS5 and Series X.
kikonawa
Member
They are cheap just waitI also found this comment on reddit rather sensible with regards to the old and tired "Nintendo are cheap" trope.
Horseganador
Member
2023 and people still do not know how Nintendo works, nor are they going to use the latest in technology, nor the most cutting-edge manufacturing node, Switch will be an economical system to manufacture to sell it for €399 max without losses and it will be fine, it will be a leap generational with respect to Switch, but these days people are reading some power freaks that are ridiculous.
Tarin02543
Member
somewhere between the trees there must be some truth
i expect nintendo to cheap out on the design but not on the manufacturing.
5nm would help them a lot to establish and maintain handheld dominance
i expect nintendo to cheap out on the design but not on the manufacturing.
5nm would help them a lot to establish and maintain handheld dominance
Hudo
Member
In the gaming space, being Nintendo is infinitely better than being Apple, tho.
Solarstrike
Member
Metroid Prime 4 alone will sell the system for $349.99 I just know it
Unless Nintendo are going for a small form factor type console,I highly doubt the switch 2 will operate at 2Ghz let alone 2.6Ghz.
If the frequency is true then the paper specs are 7987 TFLOPS,124 gigatexel and if ROPs are 16 or 24 between 41-62 gigatexels. At 2.6Ghz ,a little more performance with the extra .053Ghz.
If the frequency is true then the paper specs are 7987 TFLOPS,124 gigatexel and if ROPs are 16 or 24 between 41-62 gigatexels. At 2.6Ghz ,a little more performance with the extra .053Ghz.
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daclynk
Member
So PS4 in handheld, between PS4 Pro and Series S docked thanks to more Memory, DLSS and Tensor core so i hope path tracing. pls have HDR this time Nintendo.
With DLSS 540p to 1080p, 720p to 1440p or 1080p to 4k has more sense. NG Switch should never ever upscaled to actual 4k when QHD looks super fine with traditional upscale on any 4k tv
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lughnasadh123
Member
Fuck ps5, it's on ps6 levels!!!
Well, the issue is that you have to share the power with both the CPU and GPU. So if you can match 3.4 GHz Zen 2 performance in 15W, that still only leaves 15W for the GPU in a 30W docked configuration. I think you will need ~25W on the GPU alone, assuming fairly linear scaling from a 35W 4050 Max-Q. (Also isn't T239 meant to be on Ampere, not Ada? In which case you won't get Ada's perf/watt optimizations).
For comparison, the original Switch model consumed 11W (!) in the docked configuration.
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splattered
Member
I would happily pay $500 for a PS5/SX/SS comparable Switch 2. Bring it on. Then i'll buy the PS6 and SX2 and the SW2 will feel dated in comparison again. It's just how this stuff works.
Portugeezer
Member
Wii U was also expected to sell well.
spons
Gold Member
Nintendo is the Apple of gaming. It's such a strong brand, and also one I would fully recommend to anyone not yet in gaming, as opposed to Xbox or PlayStation.
LordOcidax
Member
Why Nintendo? lol, this is a "rumor"…
Dorfdad
Gold Member
If this console can do 4k/60 it's not going to matter the cost it will fly off the shelves at that cost.
My guess is we're getting two skus one for base system and an upgraded dock that will do 4k via upscaling this allows base units to be cheaper and those who want it can upgrade to the "pro"
balls of snow
Member
Whens the last time a really premium ninty product actually sell. It sure was not the gamecube or wiiu. Casuals come and go. They dont stick around like the diehard blues.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
You don't think Nintendo can produce something comparable to a Series S @ $399 in 2024? I think they can, and still have healthy profit margins (economies of scale will help a lot in their case). Here's what I see the Switch 2 being:
>Hybrid (of course)
>Portable component with a modest screen size and resolution. ~ 20w total power usage (undocked & discharged). 6 GB LPDDR5. GPU ~ 1 TF (slightly stronger but not terribly much), some form of DLSS3 for frame generation. CPU with 8-core setup, dual-threaded. Targeting ~ 30% boost to Switch-level gaming performance on average resolution-wise, ~ 50% boost framerate-wise. 256 GB internal storage.
>Docked component: 6-8 GB GDDR6 (leaning with 6 GB). GPU ~ 2-3 TF, DLSS 3.2. Pixel and texture fillrate comparable to Series S. Primitive culling & rasterization comparable to Series S. Used exclusively by games when Switch 2 is docked (Portable's GPU is either disabled or only used for OS UI stuff), alongside some components in the portable (mainly CPU & some LPDDR5 RAM). Thunderbolt 4.0 interconnect, full-rate. Proprietary connection w/ some stupid encryption. Slot for faster and larger-capacity microSD cards to expand storage options. RJ-45 ethernet port on back. Additional cooling (better fan & heat sink for the GPU) built-in.
>Two SKUs: #1 Portable & Joy-Cons only (no dock), $249. #2 Portable & Dock, $399. Dock also sold separately, $199
At the volume Nintendo will be making these things, I think these specs and prices are more than doable.Bruh, no. You're not getting 4K 60 FPS with even Series S-level games on Switch 2, even with a souped-up dock. Maybe some of the less technical Switch games running in BC can hit 4K 60 with DLSS 3.0, but I think that'd require the system to be docked.
That said, I think Switch 2 is going to be a good bit more powerful than some are thinking, particularly when it's docked. It'll blow past Steam Deck in some areas (GPU, CPU, memory bandwidth), but be beaten in others (storage, RAM capacity (I'm thinking 6 GB LPDDR6 & 6 GB GDDR6, vs Steam Deck's 16 GB LPDDR5 for example).
Not between PS4 and PS5; Switch 2 isn't touching PS5 in terms of performance, unless you're talking relative performance and with a really small screen so you don't notice the pixelation even with DLSS 3.0 or better in there.
However, somewhere between PS4 and Series S? I'm 100% expecting that for the Switch 2. IMO, it'll be ~ around PS4 (not exactly; for example weaker TF and less memory bandwidth) undocked, but roughly Series S-level when docked. And with DLSS 3.2, able to outperform Series S a bit better in resolution, likely quite a bit better in framerates. But even docked, I don't see it getting in the Series X or PS5 ballpark on average, let alone the most technically demanding games, even considering docked mode with DLSS.
Of course altogether I think docked it'll cost more than a Series S ($399 vs. $299 or $349), but you're getting the convenience of actual hybridization and, obviously, Nintendo's 1P exclusives. If it can perform at or slightly above Series S levels when docked, expect Switch 2 to get A LOT more Japanese & Western 3P AAA support.
Ironically, I don't see that helping the Series S tho. In fact, it'll probably kill off any remaining market relevance it has, but that should at least lead to more Series X (and PS5, and Switch 2) sales
.
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Horseganador
Member
What I expect is the same as with the first Switch, a console equivalent to PS360U with a little more power and a more modern architecture but changing PS360 for PS4-ONE in the case of Switch 2, I expect something much closer to the steamdeck That Series S and Nintendo's IPs will look great with that power.You don't think Nintendo can produce something comparable to a Series S @ $399 in 2024? I think they can, and still have healthy profit margins (economies of scale will help a lot in their case). Here's what I see the Switch 2 being:
>Hybrid (of course)>Portable component with a modest screen size and resolution. ~ 20w total power usage (undocked & discharged). 6 GB LPDDR5. GPU ~ 1 TF (slightly stronger but not terribly much), some form of DLSS3 for frame generation. CPU with 8-core setup, dual-threaded. Targeting ~ 30% boost to Switch-level gaming performance on average resolution-wise, ~ 50% boost framerate-wise. 256 GB internal storage.>Docked component: 6-8 GB GDDR6 (leaning with 6 GB). GPU ~ 2-3 TF, DLSS 3.2. Pixel and texture fillrate comparable to Series S. Primitive culling & rasterization comparable to Series S. Used exclusively by games when Switch 2 is docked (Portable's GPU is either disabled or only used for OS UI stuff), alongside some components in the portable (mainly CPU & some LPDDR5 RAM). Thunderbolt 4.0 interconnect, full-rate. Proprietary connection w/ some stupid encryption. Slot for faster and larger-capacity microSD cards to expand storage options. RJ-45 ethernet port on back. Additional cooling (better fan & heat sink for the GPU) built-in.>Two SKUs: #1 Portable & Joy-Cons only (no dock), $249. #2 Portable & Dock, $399. Dock also sold separately, $199At the volume Nintendo will be making these things, I think these specs and prices are more than doable.
Bruh, no. You're not getting 4K 60 FPS with even Series S-level games on Switch 2, even with a souped-up dock. Maybe some of the less technical Switch games running in BC can hit 4K 60 with DLSS 3.0, but I think that'd require the system to be docked.
That said, I think Switch 2 is going to be a good bit more powerful than some are thinking, particularly when it's docked. It'll blow past Steam Deck in some areas (GPU, CPU, memory bandwidth), but be beaten in others (storage, RAM capacity (I'm thinking 6 GB LPDDR6 & 6 GB GDDR6, vs Steam Deck's 16 GB LPDDR5 for example).
Not between PS4 and PS5; Switch 2 isn't touching PS5 in terms of performance, unless you're talking relative performance and with a really small screen so you don't notice the pixelation even with DLSS 3.0 or better in there.
However, somewhere between PS4 and Series S? I'm 100% expecting that for the Switch 2. IMO, it'll be ~ around PS4 (not exactly; for example weaker TF and less memory bandwidth) undocked, but roughly Series S-level when docked. And with DLSS 3.2, able to outperform Series S a bit better in resolution, likely quite a bit better in framerates. But even docked, I don't see it getting in the Series X or PS5 ballpark on average, let alone the most technically demanding games, even considering docked mode with DLSS.
Of course altogether I think docked it'll cost more than a Series S ($399 vs. $299 or $349), but you're getting the convenience of actual hybridization and, obviously, Nintendo's 1P exclusives. If it can perform at or slightly above Series S levels when docked, expect Switch 2 to get A LOT more Japanese & Western 3P AAA support.
Ironically, I don't see that helping the Series S tho. In fact, it'll probably kill off any remaining market relevance it has, but that should at least lead to more Series X (and PS5, and Switch 2) sales
Marvel14
Banned
Maths, physics and engineering are hard.
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zeldaring
Banned
Just cause switch was a huge hit doesn't mean switch 2 will be, also its gonna have the massive covid free money boost and it will probably be released when a rescission starts
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
But the Switch immediately followed the Wii U, which was an abject failure. It was basically what the Wii was for its time: a somewhat souped-up version of their failure of a prior-gen system (or runaway success, in the case of the Wii).
With the Wii U, you notice that it technically launched ahead of 8th gen, and was equivalent to PS3 and 360 but a bit more powerful. In fact if you look at Nintendo's other systems, when they followed up on successes, they were generally on par with contemporaries launched years prior. SNES was on scale with Genesis & PC-Engine, like the N64 was with PS1 and Saturn, and Gamecube with PS2 & Xbox. And yes, the Gamecube was a failure in hardware sales, but there isn't a direct correlation between Nintendo systems being comparable to contemporaries and losing sales, as if that's the actual reason successive home systems lost sales.
For those cases, we can point to obvious design and marketing flaws with those systems, and Nintendo being strained in their pipeline splitting development across a home console and portable handheld. They're resolved all those problems with the Switch. And when you really think about it, the Series S isn't really a "contemporary" in terms of power; it clearly performs under the Series X and PS5 in virtually every technical category. It is closer to the One X, but underperforms to even that in some areas.
So, Series S is more comparable to 8th-gen systems in overall performance, and at best Switch 2 will be able to compete against Switch 2 in performance when it docked mode. So it's actually meeting the criteria of Nintendo being a "generation behind" current offerings, if you look at it that way. Plus I think Series S will still have advantages in areas like SSD I/O, and possibly some multiplats where you'll need a bit more TDP headroom than Switch 2 docked can provide (and where I guess DLSS 3.2 or whatnot isn't enough of a boost to cover that).
So, basically, for Switch 2: Undocked = Steam Deck/base PS4. Docked = Series S. Obvious tradeoff in both instances, of course. But roughly speaking, that's what I see happening.
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