Syria: 100 killed as bomb hits buses with evacuees, women and children

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Really the most confusing war ever.

You have Iraq, ISIS, the Kurds, the Assad government, the United States, Russia, Syrian rebels and just general generic rebels, and various western countries. I am probably missing a few. It does not matter how much I read, I still cannot put an opinion together. There are so many players in a very small location. It is like a micro version of WW2.
 
Hasphat'sAnts said:
Has any of the rebel groups claimed responsibility yet?
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Lol that's not how it works in Syria.

Pro-rebels will claim Assad is behind this (if they haven't already) and pro-regime will say rebels are behind the attack. 2 days later everyone will move on until the next terrible civilian attack.

Sad but this how it been for years now.
 
I complain a lot about the UK, but I hit the biological jackpot not being born somewhere like this. Just horribly sad. How do humans care so little about other human lives. I just can't understand it.

We developed bombs specifically to hurt and kill as many other people as possible. We're such a fucked up species overall. RIP to all those innocent people who died, regardless of who they supported none of them deserved to die.
 
Some heavy stuff in this thread. Our problems seem so small and irrelevant compared to this fucked up shit right here. RIP :(
 
People asking for Assad have the memory of a goldfish..have we forgotten the mass incarceration, the torture prisons, the chemical gasings?

It's a false choice. Putting Syria in the hands of either of these actors is a horrible idea. The imprisonment and killings of moderates, intellectuals and leaders by the regime have been done explicitly to push the opposition into extremism, in order to claim the "lesser of two evils". The sad thing is we saw it coming back in 2011 and could do nothing to stop it.
 
Very, very sad and very, very cruel. This is the nature of war. It is disgusting.

RIP to all those people just trying to live who were cruelly and prematurely snuffed out.
 
spineduke said:
People asking for Assad have the memory of a goldfish..have we forgotten the mass incarceration, the torture prisons, the chemical gasings?

It's a false choice. Putting Syria in the hands of either of these actors is a horrible idea. The imprisonment and killings of moderates, intellectuals and leaders by the regime have been done explicitly to push the opposition into extremism, in order to claim the "lesser of two evils". The sad thing is we saw it coming back in 2011 and could do nothing to stop it.
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I personally think people who vouch for Assad as a lesser evil just don't care about the fact he has caused more civilians deaths on top of war crimes including chemical weapon attacks, torture, his mass incarceration.

People to me just want a reason to oppose an intervention in Syria and will use any evil thing rebels do to argue against it, despite an intervention speeding up the end of the conflict and cost less lives.

Also these same people for some reason talk as if U,S stopping all aide to those groups would also have countries like Turkey, Saudis. Qatar and such also stop. Assad staying in power is literally not an option if your goal is to lower the death of innocents.

Another thing, there is a difference between chemical and biological (which are indiscriminate because you literally can't just target enemies with it)l attacks and conventional, even if you can achieve the same or more level of scale of damage using conventional. It is annoying when I see arguments like that.
 
Yeoman said:
I'm glad you've finally made an appearance after doing a runner in that chemical attack thread.
Such an unbiased source you have there as well.
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Classic. Can't trust the brown Syrian druze (never mind its account who has reported on a lot of things that has happened), we need true "credible sources" which means one from a white country, preferably an english speaking one.

So here you go: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38358177

Now do you have anything to say about it or are you just here to attack him and post shit?
 
C4Lukins said:
Really the most confusing war ever.

You have Iraq, ISIS, the Kurds, the Assad government, the United States, Russia, Syrian rebels and just general generic rebels, and various western countries. I am probably missing a few. It does not matter how much I read, I still cannot put an opinion together. There are so many players in a very small location. It is like a micro version of WW2.
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You clearly don't understand WW2 of you think this is remotely similar. In WW2 you had a clear good vs evil, with an exception to maybe the Russians, who were also evil, but weren't with Germany either and retaliated against Germany's expanse to the east.
Syria is more like an evil free for all, where no one is the good guy, and the only thing the civilized world can do is to extract the innocents from that region, and let them fight each other to the death and bomb the shit out of whoever is left standing at the end of it all.
 
This is so infinitely horrible. We assholes sit here every day worrying about shit like frame pacing and 900p vs. 1080p, while the world is being torn apart around us.
 
Yeoman said:
I'm glad you've finally made an appearance after doing a runner in that chemical attack thread.
Such an unbiased source you have there as well.
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I said what I wanted to say there, and I continued in the Tomahawk strike thread.

The attack on the buses 4 months ago was widely posted and known, but I guess you'd be the last to know about it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38358177

Hope this source isn't too biased for ya.

EDIT: already posted by Wenger'sBakedBaguettes (thanks).

Glad to know you'd do anything to justify Jihadists and terrorists.
 
neorej said:
You clearly don't understand WW2 of you think this is remotely similar. In WW2 you had a clear good vs evil, with an exception to maybe the Russians, who were also evil, but weren't with Germany either and retaliated against Germany's expanse to the east.
Syria is more like an evil free for all, where no one is the good guy, and the only thing the civilized world can do is to extract the innocents from that region, and let them fight each other to the death and bomb the shit out of whoever is left standing at the end of it all.
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You sound like you view war through the filter of comic books
 
AcademicSaucer said:
Photos of the incident, very NSFW

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dTxCnXUAATYzy.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dTuS1XsAEU36f.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dTz2ZXkAAYVZY.jpg
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AcademicSaucer said:
This guy was trying to save this child

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9fDSx7UMAArHOi.jpg


Kid was already dead

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9fHeFaVoAA87eR.jpg

NSFW obviously
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What kind of vicious, perverse human beings willingly do this to other people?

A lot of dads should have pulled the fuck out, seriously.
 
F0rneus said:
Humanity is a mistake....goddamn. Rest in peace.
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Nah, what atrocities like these demonstrate is the very lack of humanity.
These are MONSTERS, vile disgusting creatures that would kill civilians and children among them, for whatever the reason.
This is hell on earth, with demons having their fun, but of course it's more complicated than that. Instead of closing the doors to the innocent people seeking refuge the governments of the world need to keep saving them. Encourage the best of humanity and give them hope.
 
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
Now do you have anything to say about it or are you just here to attack him anyd post shit?
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His posts amounts to masturbatory self idolization of the Syrian/Hizbullah war machine. Literally, all I see is pride and excitement for the atrocities and injustice they commit. So if it personally offends me and others, at least you understand the context.
 
F0rneus said:
Humanity is a mistake....goddamn. Rest in peace.
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Actually our humanity allows us to see the bombers' irreverence for life as the vile thing that it is.

Tribalism is a mistake. Extremism is a mistake. Dehumanizing one's enemies is a mistake.
 
spineduke said:
His posts amounts to masturbatory self idolization of the Syrian/Hizbullah war machine. Literally, all I see is pride and excitement for the atrocities and injustice they commit. So if it personally offends me and others, at least you understand the context.
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You mean similar to many of the posts that amounts to masturbatory of the US/Gulf war machine in the missile thread on Syria or the thread on NK? The posts I've read from him brings pretty valid points that generally aren't covered by an extremely pro-Sunni, pro-"moderate rebel" and pretty much anti-shia (tie it in to anti-Iran and anti-Russia) Western MSM, so why would I simply dismiss them? Besides as I understand he lives right next to Syria and would, as a minority in the region, be pretty much slaughtered like sheep if the groups supported by the West and their radical Sunni allies took over. Unlike most posters in this community he actually has his life and the life of his family to worry about.

Anyway I just don't see how mentioning his post history contribute to this thread when he brought up relevant information on the topic. It's not like he posted a conspiracy theory.
 
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
Besides as I understand he lives right next to Syria and would, as a minority in the region, be pretty much slaughtered like sheep if the groups supported by the West and their radical Sunni allies took over. Unlike most posters in this community he actually has his life and the life of his family to worry about.

Anyway I just don't see how mentioning his post history contribute to this thread when he brought up relevant information on the topic. It's not like he posted a conspiracy theory.
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I live in the same country as him. The only difference is that he's part of the Shia community who's invested in protecting their supply lines from Iran and Syria as a shift in governments threatens their base of power in Lebanon. They are not a minority in Lebanon, FYI, far from it. Currently a mini state within a state, destroying Lebanese sovereignty. Talking about the party, not the sect. Sectarianism has destroyed our society, and the idolization of personalities is a cancer.
 
spineduke said:
I live in the same country as him. The only difference is that he's part of the Shia community who's invested in protecting their supply lines from Iran and Syria as a shift in governments threatens their base of power in Lebanon. They are not a minority in Lebanon, FYI, far from it. Currently a mini state within a state, destroying Lebanese sovereignty. Talking about the party, not the sect. Sectarianism has destroyed our society, and the idolization of personalities is a cancer.
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If Sunnis take power in Syria, he (and basically all non-Sunnis) will be driven out or annihilated. Rebel leaders have stated this, and history has backed up their claims.

If I was in his position, you can be damn sure I'd look to Iran for help if it would save me and my family.

Edit: apologies, I misread.
 
Chairman Yang said:
If Sunnis take power in Syria, he (and basically all non-Sunnis) will be driven out or annihilated. Rebel leaders have stated this, and history has backed up their claims.

If I was in his position, you can be damn sure I'd look to Iran for help if it would save me and my family.
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He's not in Syria, he's in Lebanon. The fear is that the leverage that Hezbollah exerts today will be gone and they will have to fall in line with the other political parties. The ultimatum rhetoric is one pushed by the party in order to convince their base that they wage war despite the Lebanese governments interests.
 
A short film on the humanitarian situations you had in Kafarya and Foua for those that want some more background.

Here's excerpts from the video showing the "moderate rebels" they are dealing with, basically a decent representation of the opposition:

C9d_fnoUAAQ2O4x.jpg

C9d_fnoUIAAvErK.jpg

C9d_fnnUMAEshlI.jpg

C9d_fnpUMAAabOH.jpg
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Gotta love how the BBC article wait almost till the very end to mention the victims where Shia who were besieged by AQ & Co, ensuring that most readers pretty much aren't even going to read that detail. Then you got CNN saying they came from "pro-regime" villages to somehow normalize or "justify" the attack, to somehow make it understandable despite them being killed merely for being Shia similar to how other non-Sunni minorities have been killed by Sunni extremists across the region. Then you have AJ not even mentioning civilians were Shia and only having it appear in the subheading and twitter stories just mentioning them as evacuees. Most people know how this would have played out in the media had it been the government who attacked civilians. As usual Shia lives don't matter since there's no anti-Iran/Russian angle to attach to it; in comparison to a more recent attacks the laughable western media is yawning over this.
 
spineduke said:
I live in the same country as him. The only difference is that he's part of the Shia community who's invested in protecting their supply lines from Iran and Syria as a shift in governments threatens their base of power in Lebanon. They are not a minority in Lebanon, FYI, far from it. Currently a mini state within a state, destroying Lebanese sovereignty. Talking about the party, not the sect. Sectarianism has destroyed our society, and the idolization of personalities is a cancer.
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I said minority in the region, and minorities in the region ARE being attacked and or slowly being wiped out by radical Sunni Islam. Heck it's not even limited to MENA but even in West African countries like Nigeria or countries in South Asia like Pakistan.

spineduke said:
He's not in Syria, he's in Lebanon. The fear is that the leverage that Hezbollah exerts today will be gone and they will have to fall in line with the other political parties. The ultimatum rhetoric is one pushed by the party in order to convince their base that they wage war despite the Lebanese governments interests.
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Afaik Hezbollah is acting as a line of defense against an ISIS/AQ/"moderate rebel" spillover in Lebanon, and one of the biggest reasons why Lebanon (or parts of it anyway) today hasn't turned into Syria with only Sunnis existing. I'm not gonna comment on Hezbollah and Lebanese politics. I'm sure both you and Sijil know better.
 
I think we have to support Assad. Both sides are fucked but he's the only one who can end it and that has to be the most important thing now. RIP to everyone who has suffered so needlessly in this conflict.
 
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
I said minority in the region, and minorities in the region ARE being attacked and or slowly being wiped out by radical Sunni Islam. Heck it's not even limited to MENA but even in West African countries like Nigeria or countries in South Asia like Pakistan.
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That doesn't excuse the persecution perpetuated by both sides. What's happening in Syria is inhumane. If you're a minority or otherwise, you have no right to kill women and children. Which sadly doesn't seem to register in some people's minds.
 
I think even supporting Assad will not end this anytime soon
It's just another mess the world's superpowers have created for the control of ressources and it's the local civilians who have to pay the price in the years to come with millions of lives.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Are there people on GAF still believing this "moderate rebel" bullshit?
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of course.. it's gaf, you know :X
you'll find at least one person for each and every idea, no matter how farfetched it is..
just a few days ago, someone was saying that nazi didn't employ chemical in the war, because gassing jew doesn't count, as there was no shooting or violence involved...

ahahah :X
 
TheWasTheJoke said:
I think we have to support Assad. Both sides are fucked but he's the only one who can end it and that has to be the most important thing now. RIP to everyone who has suffered so needlessly in this conflict.
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He has to go at some point anyway. Baath dictatorships are terrible and that's even if the Syrian one pales in comparison to the one Saddam led.
 
TarNaru33 said:
I personally think people who vouch for Assad as a lesser evil just don't care about the fact he has caused more civilians deaths on top of war crimes including chemical weapon attacks, torture, his mass incarceration.

People to me just want a reason to oppose an intervention in Syria and will use any evil thing rebels do to argue against it, despite an intervention speeding up the end of the conflict and cost less lives.

Also these same people for some reason talk as if U,S stopping all aide to those groups would also have countries like Turkey, Saudis. Qatar and such also stop. Assad staying in power is literally not an option if your goal is to lower the death of innocents.

Another thing, there is a difference between chemical and biological (which are indiscriminate because you literally can't just target enemies with it)l attacks and conventional, even if you can achieve the same or more level of scale of damage using conventional. It is annoying when I see arguments like that.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but intervention by means of the removal of Assad is not a solution when you have so many players in the game. It would simply turn into a completely failed state much like Libya​. In order for stability to have a chance, there needs to be a deal brokered by Syrian, Russian, Iranian and coalition forces to get to the point where it would be stable enough to transition the government. Much like the offer in 2012. Dropping bombs and arming the 'moderates' isn't a solution because that's not going to end anything.
 
King Tubby said:
When there is no right course of action, the right course of action is to not get involved.
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Too late.

US wanted to topple Assad and I doubt they care about the destruction in their path seeing as their method was to provide weapons to fight the government...who were cracking down on people killing soldiers.
 
Dopus said:
I'm sorry, but intervention by means of the removal of Assad is not a solution when you have so many players in the game. It would simply turn into a completely failed state much like Libya​. In order for stability to have a chance, there needs to be a deal brokered by Syrian, Russian, Iranian and coalition forces to get to the point where it would be stable enough to transition the government. Much like the offer in 2012. Dropping bombs and arming the 'moderates' isn't a solution because that's not going to end anything.
Click to expand...

Syria is so much worse than Libya right now. We should instead be worried that Libya is going to become like Syria.
 
Dopus said:
I'm sorry, but intervention by means of the removal of Assad is not a solution when you have so many players in the game. It would simply turn into a completely failed state much like Libya​. In order for stability to have a chance, there needs to be a deal brokered by Syrian, Russian, Iranian and coalition forces to get to the point where it would be stable enough to transition the government. Much like the offer in 2012. Dropping bombs and arming the 'moderates' isn't a solution because that's not going to end anything.
Click to expand...

You said intervention by removing Assad is not a solution then go on to say a transition government is needed? You do know those are both the same thing, right?

"Dropping bombs and arming the moderates" was a solution in 2012, can't say for sure now since each side has become hardened and the rise of extremism in the rebel forces was partly due to the lack of intervention.

One thing is clear though and something the rebels have stated time after time; Assad can not stay in power. If the government manages to beat back the rebels, they will have to deal with constant bombings and insurgency. If the goal is stopping the conflict, Assad's government can't stay.

witchedwiz said:
of course.. it's gaf, you know :X
you'll find at least one person for each and every idea, no matter how farfetched it is..
just a few days ago, someone was saying that nazi didn't employ chemical in the war, because gassing jew doesn't count, as there was no shooting or violence involved...

ahahah :X
Click to expand...

It is really annoying and sad that people jumped into this thread circlejerking about how there are no moderates before anyone else started saying anything about moderate rebels.

The people that say this seem to not even understand why extremist groups now reign supreme in opposition forces now.

TheWasTheJoke said:
I think we have to support Assad. Both sides are fucked but he's the only one who can end it and that has to be the most important thing now. RIP to everyone who has suffered so needlessly in this conflict.
Click to expand...

The bold isn't even slightly true and supporting Assad is not even a possibility. The closest you would get to the West supporting Assad, is them dropping support for the rebels, which the Gulf States and Turkey would continue doing anyways.
 
Yup, the rebels are pretty much just as bad as Assad. I'm not even sure if the term civil war accurately describes the situation. 60% of the rebels are Islamic extremists. Many (most?) are outside actors - not even from Syria.

Totally messed up situation. Short term, I think we need to back Assad and end the war. Focus on Isis. Assad is winning. If we start attacking him its just going to drag this out even more.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer if we weren't involved at all - I'm tired of bombing innocent people - but if we are going to be involved I'd prefer to end this as quickly as possible.
 
TarNaru33 said:
You said intervention by removing Assad is not a solution then go on to say a transition government is needed? You do know those are both the same thing, right?

"Dropping bombs and arming the moderates" was a solution in 2012, can't say for sure now since each side has become hardened and the rise of extremism in the rebel forces was partly due to the lack of intervention.

One thing is clear though and something the rebels have stated time after time; Assad can not stay in power. If the government manages to beat back the rebels, they will have to deal with constant bombings and insurgency. If the goal is stopping the conflict, Assad's government can't stay.
Click to expand...

If I didn't make it clear, I'm talking about the removal of Assad by force. Removal through a brokered agreement between Russia, the Government and the other larger forces is quite clearly different.

And no, it wasn't ever a solution. It was the proposed solution by the West, but it was doomed with failure because you have both Russia and Iran officially taking positions and siding with the state. Moreover, the FSA was comprised of a number of different militias back in 2012, it's not one group. There was plentiful infighting. I also made specific reference to the Russian proposal that was outright rejected by the United States. We don't know how far that could have got towards the road to stability, but the fact is that it was never even explored.
 
Why. Why does this kind of fuckery never bother the people who do this? Why do their sick fucking minds think it's justifiable to do this crap?
Do they plan to just slaughter each other until there's no one left to fight/defend?

If you want to ascend to heaven, put a bullet in your own head and skip several steps.
 
Saw this on the news earlier today and the scale of destruction was incredible. It must have been a big bomb. The people behind this don't value human life. In their eyes there is no distinction between men,women or children.
 
Dopus said:
If I didn't make it clear, I'm talking about the removal of Assad by force. Removal through a brokered agreement between Russia, the Government and the other larger forces is quite clearly different.

And no, it wasn't ever a solution. It was the proposed solution by the West, but it was doomed with failure because you have both Russia and Iran officially taking positions and siding with the state. Moreover, the FSA was comprised of a number of different militias back in 2012, it's not one group. There was plentiful infighting. I also made specific reference to the Russian proposal that was outright rejected by the United States. We don't know how far that could have got towards the road to stability, but the fact is that it was never even explored.
Click to expand...


Russian proposals don't matter if the rebels don't agree to it whether U.S rejects it or not, I am sure you know this.

Russia is the only thing that doomed it to failure, not Iran and made it a non-solution when they got involved militarily.

Just because it isn't a solution because you don't like the results, do not make it a solution. I can tell you, your idea of a solution is also not a solution because not everyone will agree with the transition and an insurgency will still be present. There is no true solution in that deaths and fighting will stop even with an agreement you know.
 
TarNaru33 said:
Russian proposals don't matter if the rebels don't agree to it whether U.S rejects it or not, I am sure you know this.

Russia is the only thing that doomed it to failure, not Iran and made it a non-solution when they got involved militarily.

Just because it isn't a solution because you don't like the results, do not make it a solution. I can tell you, your idea of a solution is also not a solution because not everyone will agree with the transition and an insurgency will still be present. There is no true solution in that deaths and fighting will stop even with an agreement you know.
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I don't understand, you mean to say the proposal was doomed because it came from Russia? Or that russia sabotaged their own proposal.
 
AcademicSaucer said:
Man this seems more and more vile as further details come out


It happened when a vehicle loaded with food arrived and started distributing crisps, attracting many children, before exploding, the BBC's Middle East correspondent Lina Sinjab said.

At least 68 children killed

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39613313
Click to expand...

Goddammit.... an attack to kill children!!! Children for fucks sake!!!! Damn these monsters to hell!!!!
 
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