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[toddhunter]

Is there a demo for this game? how is it like bioshock?seems pretty different to me.

It is like that scene in Indian Jones and the temple of doom where the guy gets his heart ripped out. You can tell it is the same guy, and he is still alive, but something important and crucial is missing.

 

[WanderingWind]

Sorry guys, but the game improves by an order of magnitudes without the horrible, horrible music.

 

[MacGurcules]

I can play through games no problem with a 2.1 set up or if I leave the headphones on the stand (kind of a pseudo 2.1 set up if you think about it).

If I play with them on it just becomes too real, since the positional audio combined with the close screen is just too much.

Its not like I'm jump scared, it just gets too tense and I don't feel like playing anymore. Makes me want to rush through the game, rather then enjoying the experience. Something about the audio just engages my flight or fight response and its not comfortable.

I dunno, constantly stressed to the gills and always anxious over what's around the next corner sounds like just about the right way to enjoy it. That's the game working just as planned, right there.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

Sorry guys, but the game improves by an order of magnitudes without the horrible, horrible music.

Pfft, don't you know breakbeats and filters make everything more dramatic? But yeah, this is another area where SS2 disappointed me over 1, you won't find any generic techno that sounds like someone slapped it together in five minutes in the first game.

 

[KorrZ]

Bought. I've never played this game before, but it just finished installing. I'm really curious how I'm going to feel about it having played Bioshock first. Anyways, here we go!

 

[commissar]

.
MAJOR SPOILERS

Spoiler

-Some of the stuff with Shodan makes no sense. She manifested a holographic face of herself and then died when I shot a screen with her face on it? I mean I know I'm thinking about this shit too hard, but that stood out. Also her 'reveal' is really theatrical for a cold, ruthless machine. You know she was thinking 'this guy is gonna FLIP when he see's my face on all four walls'.

It's been about 10 years since I last played it, but as I recall:
ENDING SPOILERS

Spoiler

SHODAN used the hyperdrive to create a reality where she is a god. So that wireframe door in the bridge is a door into her mind. When you kill her manifestation, that's inside her head :] An AI with no mind is not much of anything

But of course she had already cloned herself in that lady's head so...we'll find out in the sequ- :'[

 

[Macmanus]

Sorry guys, but the game improves by an order of magnitudes without the horrible, horrible music.

I don't think you should apologize. The music flat out breaks immersion.

 

[Alexios]

Just got to Hydroponics... Yikes!

Am I supposed to learn research etc, I believe it's the second time I'm told I can/should do something with that, but I don't have the skill. They don't seem like primary objectives though so I imagine I can finish the game without it, right?

 

[Endesu]

Haha, I suppose the music really is a love it or hate it thing. Either it becomes a part of the experience for you or it just stands in the way of immersion. That's fine. Personally I can't imagine the game without the music.

Just got to Hydroponics... Yikes!

Am I supposed to learn research etc, I believe it's the second time I'm told I can/should do something with that, but I don't have the skill. They don't seem like primary objectives though so I imagine I can finish the game without it, right?

Actually, you will need at least one point in Research, as there is an item on that floor you'll need to research. It's also recommended because researching certain enemy drops will enable you to do more damage to them. Beyond that, it isn't really necessary for clearing the game.

 

[Alexios]

Yeah I just got that item but it seemed optional, considering I wasn't even meant to be here at this point. Oh well. I think I have just enough... thingies to learn research with at this point. I'll research the other things as well.. Although I've yet to get a drop from the new enemies I've got one from all the others and another special item I found previously.

 

[VASPER]

The real question is will this shit work on my PC?

 

[Macmanus]

The real question is will this shit work on my PC?

Is your computer over a decade old?

 

[subversus]

Is there a demo for this game? how is it like bioshock?seems pretty different to me.

edit: there is but it's a modified one and not representative of the full game.

It is like that scene in Indian Jones and the temple of doom where the guy gets his heart ripped out. You can tell it is the same guy, and he is still alive, but something important and crucial is missing.

dude, gameplay isn't the heart of these games. It's important but it's just one of the components. That said, SS2 is more satisfying than Bioshock but all hard games have this advantage. But rip out sound, art direction, voice acting, story and you are left with just a good dungeon crawler.

 

[Alexios]

I wouldn't give that demo without at least a brief disclaimer of the differences to the normal game. It's been packaged with the Rebirth mod and other enhancements and the beginning is a little re-arranged and more abrupt and nonsensical than the full game as I previously mentioned. I didn't finish it to know if there are more notable differences not covered here.

 

[subversus]

I wouldn't give that demo without at least a brief disclaimer of the differences to the normal game. It's been packaged with the Rebirth mod and other enhancements and the beginning is a little re-arranged and more abrupt and nonsensical than the full game as I previously mentioned. I didn't finish it to know if there are more notable differences not covered here.

yeah, edited the post.

 

[Sweet Baby Roy]

Waiting for the Steam release because I have some money sitting in the steam wallet. Right now I'm so into Fire Emblem that I wouldn't play it anyway.

 

[toddhunter]

dude, gameplay isn't the heart of these games. It's important but it's just one of the components. That said, SS2 is more satisfying than Bioshock but all hard games have this advantage. But rip out sound, art direction, voice acting, story and you are left with just a good dungeon crawler.

Well yes, so lets not do that!

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Yeah I just got that item but it seemed optional, considering I wasn't even meant to be here at this point. Oh well. I think I have just enough... thingies to learn research with at this point. I'll research the other things as well.. Although I've yet to get a drop from the new enemies I've got one from all the others and another special item I found previously.

There should be an implant nearby which will save you the points

 

[subversus]

some excerpts from Bioshock postmortem:

What Went Wrong

1. Evolving Product Positioning.

The spec of BioShock changed so much over the course of development that we spent the majority of the time making the wrong game- an extremely deep game, and at times an interesting one, but it was not a groundbreaking game that would appeal to a wide audience.

We knew from the start that we'd have to make late changes to really bring the game to life-we had even built our original schedule to allow for six months of finalizing-but the amount of change that we ended up needing seriously exceeded our remaining schedule. Ultimately, we were very lucky to get an extension in the eleventh hour.

Part of the reason for the late course change came from not having our internal product message clear from the beginning. BioShock had initially been positioned as a hybrid RPG FPS. The decision to reposition the game as a focused FPS came later, after our initial production phase in summer of 2006. Had we been working with an FPS mentality earlier, we could have made better use of our time.

Another contributing factor to the late switch was that the game had been more or less proceeding according to plan throughout development, so there didn't seem to be any emergencies that needed intervention from higher levels of management. Milestones were completed, goals were met, development seemed to be proceeding uneventfully. But as the game neared alpha, key people began looked more closely and saw that BioShock wasn't on track to become an accessible and marketable game.

As mentioned in the first What Went Right point, the real turning point for BioShock came when we had to present the game to the outside world, which forced us to carefully consider the story and takeaway message. In retrospect, we should have tried to develop some of that thinking sooner.

What went right:

3. Input from outside.

The first external BioShock focus test was meant to be a sanity check: to get a better sense of what was working well but needed polish and what wasn't working at all.


At this point we had already done one small round of internal focus testing with friends of friends, which had turned out mostly positive feedback. So, just after the first beta, the entire design team plus a contingent of 2K producers headed off to see how a group that knew nothing about our company or BioShock would react to the first level.

It was brutal.

The first level, they said, was overly dense, confusing, and not particularly engaging. Players would acquire new powers but not know how to use them, so they stuck to using more traditional weapons and became frustrated. They didn't interact with the Big Daddies, and they didn't understand (or care) how to modify their characters. They were so overwhelmed by dialogue and backstory that they missed key information. A few of the players did start to see the possible depth of the game, but even they were frustrated by the difficulty of actually using the systems we had created.

Based on this humbling feedback, we came to the realization that our own instincts were not serving us well. We were making a game that wasn't taking the initial user experience into account, and we weren't thinking enough about how to make it accessible to a wide variety of players.

After the focus test, we went back to the drawing board for the entire learning sequence of the game. We scrapped the gameplay in the first two levels entirely and re-architected them to be a much slower paced experience that walked the player through the more complicated gameplay verbs, such as "one-two punch"-combining weapons and plasmids. We changed the medical pavilion from having sandbox-style gameplay to using a series of locks and keys that were set up to ensure that the player knew how to use at least a few key plasmids. And we made a development rule that future changes would be data-driven, not based solely on our own instincts.

After the first round of changes, we had two rounds of internal 2K play testing to gather more data about the user experience, releasing builds of the game to several 2K studios and soliciting feedback about how far people got and which weapons or systems they enjoyed. We received feedback from 2K game analysts, Microsoft, and a few other advisors.

When we brought the demo back to focus testing, which was barely a month before we were (then) scheduled to complete the game, the experience was very different. Although players still got stuck and frustrated at various spots, they understood the game systems and saw the potential inherent in them. While we still had work to do to make the game more accessible, at least now the problems were much more easily solvable.

In terms of design, we created a depth and density of game systems that fit into a game about character building and choice, but would not have been competitive as an FPS. Around the time that the game went into alpha, we took a hard look at that gameplay and realized that, although there were many choices, they weren't very compelling.

This was because we hadn't been thinking as much about making a shooter as we should have, and many of our key interactions (weapons tuning, plasmids, length of AI engagement) were designed and tuned for a slower and more cerebral experience. To put it another way, nerdy RPG-like stat changes just didn't seem meaningful in the vibrant and dangerous world of Rapture.

Once we recalibrated the game to be more like a shooter, we simplified many of the deeper systems tremendously so that the user would be able to understand them. We also put more polish time into the core interactions of the game, such as the weapons, plasmids, and user interfaces. We ended up with fewer choices overall, but each one of those choices was infinitely more functional, understandable, and fun than the previous ones.

 

[Alexios]

There should be an implant nearby which will save you the points

I found lab assistant implant... but only after I spent the points. Oh well. Does it enhance the skill at least when used?

I've researched all the enemy stuff I've got, I only need to do this item and some more I just found. A special hypo and some tool. Now to find the chemicals (I think I just did before I quit, but didn't check for sure)...

 

[Conciliator]

some excerpts from Bioshock postmortem:

Man that is super interesting. You can watch Bioshock get dumbed down before your eyes.

 

[robin2]

dude, gameplay isn't the heart of these games. It's important but it's just one of the components. That said, SS2 is more satisfying than Bioshock but all hard games have this advantage. But rip out sound, art direction, voice acting, story and you are left with just a good dungeon crawler.

I think the gameplay makes the crucial difference between the two games.

 

[FACE]

What I got from those excerpts is that Bioshock was focus tested a lot and dumbed down as a result.

 

[wrowa]

Edit: Solved, nevermind.

 

[subversus]

I think the gameplay makes the crucial difference between the two games.

it does but it's not what makes these games that special to me. Bioshock was a sandbox - I was playing with powers, making big daddies protect me and fight bosses for me, setting traps and watching splicers walk into them while standing invisible nearby. It was fun. System Shock 2 isn't a "fun" game for me, it's a tense survival experience where every skill is crucial. What constitutes as fun here is making the most efficient build in the role you're given, i.e. roleplaying. I was always of the opinion that SS2 is a shooter because I chose Navy the first time and followed builds posted online. I didn't finish the game in the result because I didn't play it as an RPG but as a shooter and the whole survival aspect has become tedious because it wasn't balanced by the fun of making my own build.

Now I play with an exotic build I mapped out and it's much more fun (and easier) then the first time. So Bioshock - using any powers I like for the most spectacular show, System Shock 2 - using powers to scrap by past the obstacles in the most efficient way allowed by my role. So yes, SS2 is an RPG even though I used to argue otherwise.

Also all these systems - implants, consumables, powerups, powers, skills can be veeeeeery confusing for a new player. You have to RTFM and thus you limit your audience by like 80%/ So what they did with Bioshock was right given their scope and budget.

 

[lotrfan]

I found lab assistant implant... but only after I spent the points. Oh well. Does it enhance the skill at least when used?

I've researched all the enemy stuff I've got, I only need to do this item and some more I just found. A special hypo and some tool. Now to find the chemicals (I think I just did before I quit, but didn't check for sure)...

Yes it does enhance your research skill (adds 1 skill point to whatever you have). Basically you will research faster plus some items require higher research skills.

 

[Alexios]

I play it as an FPS with some RPG perks and it's tense and entertaining. I suppose I wouldn't call it fun, there are no engaging shooting mechanics or AI patterns or whatever else (which I didn't personally think Bioshock had either), the satisfaction comes from doing well, surviving, finding the resources you need to do so, managing to conserve supplies, reaching pivotal points, etc. But I don't think that makes it an RPG. It's an action adventure that happens to be an FPS I guess. Something like Metroid Prime (or for non FPS games, Resident Evil). A few skills, stats and perks don't make it an RPG to me.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Is the game significantly harder to play when you go for the PSI powers?

What about playing it on easy difficulty, a no-go? I'm just a bit scared of running out of ammunition..

 

[KorrZ]

Wow @ that excerpt. Focus testing dumbing games down, big surprise.

Is the game significantly harder to play when you go for the PSI powers?

What about playing it on easy difficulty, a no-go? I'm just a bit scared of running out of ammunition..

I just started playing for the first time last night, so I'm no expert but I picked PSI as my class and it hasn't been much of an issue so far during the first 2 hours. Cryokinesis + Wrench back up has handled everything swiftly (Normal difficulty).

 

[Alexios]

I don't play PSI and conserve ammo by going melee and raising the relevant skills to do more damage per shot. There were times I run out of specific types so I resorted to killing mechanical enemies with normal bullets but I never so far ran empty.

 

[BloodMoney]

If you are playing with a melee focus, i really can't speak highly enough of the laser rapier. It's very useful to be take down Hybrids with a single slice.

 

[Alexios]

Well, with my current STR stat the first enemies take 1 hit, the shotgun ones 2, the females 3 (but they're a little dangerous so I won't do that every time for the last) with the wrench. I found the laser rapier but I haven't invested anything in energy weapons so I can't use it. But I don't have a melee focus, I just use it a lot to conserve my ammo really.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Cool, sounds good. Now if only I can get over how terrifying the game is.

It is very sad to read that about Bioshock, it's a shame they dumbed the game down so much.. it certainly made my Bioshock experience only memorable on a superficial level, I wasn't going to go back to it, and I certainly won't be buying Infinite. :/

 

[BloodMoney]

Well, with my current STR the first enemies take 1 hit, the shotgun ones 2, the females 3 with the wrench. I found the laser rapier but I haven't invested anything in energy weapons so I can't use it. But I don't have melee focus, I just use it a lot to conserve ammo.

With some more STR (with the laer rapier), the base hybrids take 1, the shotgun hybrids take 1, and the cyborg midwifes take 2.

I'm about 1/2 way through Hydroponics... which in my opinion is where the fear really starts to set in. I'm not juggling this came with Crysis 3.

 

[subversus]

Cool, sounds good. Now if only I can get over how terrifying the game is.

It is very sad to read that about Bioshock, it's a shame they dumbed the game down so much.. it certainly made my Bioshock experience only memorable on a superficial level, I wasn't going to go back to it, and I certainly won't be buying Infinite. :/

there is 1999 mode for Infinite which supposedly returns the survival aspect so at least this part of SS2 gameplay is there (supposedly).

 

[BloodMoney]

there is 1999 mode for Infinite which supposedly returns the survival aspect so at least this part of SS2 gameplay is there (supposedly).

I will believe it when i see it.
*fingers crossed.

 

[Ingueferroque]

there is 1999 mode for Infinite which supposedly returns the survival aspect so at least this part of SS2 gameplay is there (supposedly).

1999 mode sounds like mostly difficulty and balancing tweaks, that won't bring in a new inventory system, and lessen the overtly (imo) scripted nature of the game, ... among other things.

 

[subversus]

1999 mode sounds like mostly difficulty and balancing tweaks, that won't bring in a new inventory system, and lessen the overtly (imo) scripted nature of the game, ... among other things.

you simply can't make any assumptions about scripted nature of the game until you've played it (unless you think that watching marketing materials = playing). SS2 is pretty scripted too when it comes to some encounters, scares and so on. I don't know why some people suddenly decided that Bioshock Infinite will be scripted because Levine was telling otherwise right from the beginning. They even slammed Bioshock for being too constrained and limited in gameplay options.

 

[Ingueferroque]

you simply can't make any assumptions about scripted nature of the game until you've played it (unless you think that watching marketing materials = playing). SS2 is pretty scripted too when it comes to some encounters, scares and so on. I don't know why some people suddenly decided that Bioshock Infinite will be scripted because Levine was telling otherwise right from the beginning. They even slammed Bioshock for being too constrained and limited in gameplay options.

I will believe it when i see it.
*fingers crossed.

I have no hopes whatsoever, but would love to be wrong. So let's wait and see.

 

[FACE]

Levine also said this:

Right now, my focus is all BioShock, all the time. Irrational has a set of core design principles that we first experimented with on Shock 2 that are really going to reach fruition with BioShock.

Someone should make a "don't believe his lies" picture with Ken's face.

 

[lotrfan]

Well, with my current STR stat the first enemies take 1 hit, the shotgun ones 2, the females 3 (but they're a little dangerous so I won't do that every time for the last) with the wrench. I found the laser rapier but I haven't invested anything in energy weapons so I can't use it. But I don't have a melee focus, I just use it a lot to conserve my ammo really.

If you have enough research (lvl 4), try the crystal shard when you find it. Even with only one skill point into exotic weapons it is better than the wrench.

 

[Stallion Free]

Lolz from TTLG

Howdy all;

I'm TheEnigmaticT, A.K.A. the head marketingbot at GOG; we've heard the comments from you guys here and, after investigating, wanted to get back to you with a reply. Apologies it took so long, but what with some of the involved people being in Poland and some being on the West Coast of the US, there's a long time lag in getting answers.

1. About the patches from this community that are in use in our build of System Shock 2: Whenever we receive a build from a publisher / developer on GOG.com, that's the build that we have to use. Night Dive provided us with a build for us to use when we signed the game with them, and it worked pretty well out of the box. Armed only with the knowledge that it contained some "community fixes" for the game, we made a few changes on our own and then, after testing, found it was as stable as any 13 year old game is likely to be. Absent the knowledge of what those fixes were, we couldn't really request permission / get acknowledgement for the fixes from the community here.

Many of you guys here know us; we have worked with some of you before on a paid basis to develop patches and fixes for games that we sell,. We're not bad guys and we're sorry about the fact that we've upset you all and caused this uproar. We're open to suggestions from this community on how we can address your concerns about the community-created content in the build in a manner that's fair to all parties. It's worth noting that any changes that we want to make to a build have to go back through the approval process with the publisher (Night Dive) again, however, so anything that we decide to do together will take time to go into effect.

You guy seem particularly angry about the wording that Guillaume used in the interview he gave with RPS (There are some user-made mods out there which do phenomenal work on the game’s stability, but none of them were quite perfect, so we took the game to our expert techninjas to analyse and swat the remaining bugs). I think this may be a case where you're focusing on the negative excessively here. Guillaume explicitly acknowledges that you guys have "done phenomenal work on the game's stability" (it's a direct quote!); that said, our build engineers did make a few changes that, in our tests, improved things enough where we decided that they were worth committing to our version of the GOG.com installer for System Shock 2.

Again, I'd like to apologize if you guys interpreted this as a slight. It wasn't intended as such.

So what can GOG.com and TTLG do together to help make you guys happier about this release? I've got a few suggestions, and I'm willing to hear yours as well.

1. Giving credit for the community-made mods in the build notes is certainly possible, although problematic for everyone because as I understand it, patch 2.4 was developed by someone whose real name is unknown and who appears to somehow have had access to the source code. For the rest of the content, we're happy to move forward with including some kind of acknowledgement for you guys.

2. Including a reference to the the community contributions on the gamecard + a stickied thread in the GOG.com community subforum for System Shock 2, giving credit and telling people to come check you guys out and systemshock.org out..

Also, possibly:

3. Generate a new build that does not rely on SSTool. This is a little tricky for us, as it will require that we both retest the whole game again once we've made our build and also resubmit the build to Night Dive, since it will not be the one that they gave us. I'll admit that it's probably not our preference--SSTool works quite well, from what the build team has told me--but if you guys would prefer that we don't do that because you feel it's stealing from you, we understand it and we'll try to work with you all on this issue. Do keep in mind that if we decide that this is a path to take, it will take some time to accomplish. Remastering, retesting, and reapproving are, none of them, things that happen overnight or even in a week's time.

That's all I can think of to help address all the concerns you guys have. What are your thoughts?

 

[Alexios]

If you have enough research (lvl 4), try the crystal shard when you find it. Even with only one skill point into exotic weapons it is better than the wrench.

Yeah I just found it and researched it and was wondering if I should put a point in exotic. Might as well, I've maxed standard.

 

[lotrfan]

Yeah I just found it and researched it and was wondering if I should put a point in exotic. Might as well, I've maxed standard.

Go for it you won’t regret it. Can’t say the same for the rest of the exotic weapons as I never used them aside from the shard (and some implants).

 

[DocSeuss]

there is 1999 mode for Infinite which supposedly returns the survival aspect so at least this part of SS2 gameplay is there (supposedly).

A huge part of System Shock 2's gameplay is in being alone, and 1999 mode doesn't alter that.

 

[subversus]

Levine also said this:

Someone should make a "don't believe his lies" picture with Ken's face.

when was it said? if 2006 then he trully believed it. Also yes, he sells games. Listen to the interview GOG provided.

 

[lotrfan]

For those who care there is an Easter egg found on level 5 in the basket ball court (Recreation Deck). However to get it you need to find a basketball that is hidden in the very first area before you start the training. It is on a ledge (or ramp) to your right once you step out of the tram. It is in a dark area so it may be hard to see depending on your gamma etc. Once you get the ball put it away until you reach the recreation deck then just drop it into the basket (easier said than done).

Here is a link to the wiki explaining how to get it. May contain spoilers of the Easter egg.
http://shodan.wikia.com/wiki/Basketball

 

[FACE]

when was it said? if 2006 then he trully believed it. Also yes, he sells games. Listen to the interview GOG provided.

2005 if I recall correctly. Maybe that interview was done before they focus tested the game and discovered that the unwashed masses wanted baby's first System Shock instead of a real successor to SS2.

 

[Clydefrog]

Finding a grenade launcher in a rec room was a nice surprise

 

[Macmanus]

If you are playing with a melee focus, i really can't speak highly enough of the laser rapier. It's very useful to be take down Hybrids with a single slice.

If you're going pure melee, crystal shard does significantly more damage by end game.