• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tales of Xillia |OT| - Teach me about Bazongas!

Bladenic

Member
It's not completely removed, but the weakness system makes it easy enough to combo bosses. Characters like Ludger and Milla who have an attack of every element are especially good at building combos for lots of damage.

The combo breaking isn't really random or completely unavoidable anymore, they don't break out of attacks unless the weakness gauge is completely empty, you're not hitting them with a weakpoint attack, or you don't connect attacks quickly enough and they recover. And once you get a certain skill, you can make it so your first attack counts as a weakpoint hit and start a combo with almost any arte you want. Not perfect, but I found it flexible enough to be acceptable.

And yeah, I think the Xillia combo videos are all on normal enemies. :p

Yep, you can actually combos bosses. Combined with Ludger's special ability you can defeat bosses before they even have a chance to act.
 

demidar

Member
Just my luck, bottom of the page. I'm gonna requote just in case.

I disagreed with that in the Project X Zone thread and I'll disagree with you in this thread. That stance is literally unfathomable to me, and I mean literally in the strictest sense of the word.

Edit: Regarding to what to spend black feathers on, I recommend either Red Savories (increase TP by 20) or the one right below it (Rosemaries I think, increases SP by 2). Both of these costs 25 feathers mind you, the stat up herbs are 15 apiece. The reasoning is as follows: Stats such as Agility, Strength, etc. reach such high numbers that +2 isn't gonna mean much. Same thing with HP, +20 doesn't mean much when you're in 4 digit numbers. However +20 TP is a huge benefit especially to the non-casters since that's easily a 5-20% increase as TP works up to 999 as opposed to 9999 for HP. TP is also recovered in battle by hitting enemies, and it seems to recover on a %percentage basis (about 0.5% to 1% per hit as far as I can eyeball it) so increasing max TP also increases TP recovery. Getting SP up herbs should be pretty obvious, it's an alternate, infinite way to gain SP and +2 points makes a fairly large impact on what skills you can equip, and there's no other ways to increase your SP outside of the Lilium Orb.

I've said it before, if bosses auto-escape instead of randomly countering that would make boss battles 5x better already. And reduce their health bonus on higher difficulties as well.
 
Finally beat that EX dungeon boss. Used up 5 Omega Elixirs, 15 Life Bottles, and 7 Elixirs. And this was on moderate!

It got into a real spamfest with
the three of them
near the end. Haven't felt so excited when fighting a boss in a long time.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
We can at least agree on Xillia having a better battle system than Graces F, right?

....right?
Errrrr... I'd... disagree.

Wait, what's the worst game you've played this year?

Well how do you make a challenging boss fight without it getting extremely cheap? One on one fights are easy to control, but if it's 4v1, how can you balance it so a boss can't be chain combo'd to death.
I do think guard breaks are something that should be more reasonable. Something like 6-10 hits are far too little for my taste, but having the boss merely counter you whenever you spam certain artes, or use the wrong arte and they counter, or something like that. Make bosses more intelligent instead of tanks with Glory, teching out of combos, going into OVL/using hi-ougis consistently with little reprieve. Them using hi-ougis often and for seemingly little reason is just icing on the cake, and is not a decent way of providing any sort of challenge to the player. For the most part, the player is going to run circles around the arena, dodging the enemy when they have a red exclamation mark over their heads or dodging the attack that extends into the hi-ougi because the boss is designed with free-run in mind as opposed to proper side-stepping, dodging, parrying, etc. A lot of the time, you're not going to have your entire party hitting the boss for 100+ hits since you're going to be healing, supporting, etc. with other AI-directed characters.

This is nothing about "oh, hey, put some thought into your combos next time!" No, it's because the bosses are designed with Free Run in mind with consistent use of hi-ougis with little player reprieve. It doesn't necessarily enforce smarter play at all because your progress is going to be stilted since you're busy dodging an arte until the boss OVL is over. I miss when Tales games used to enforce the player getting battles done as quickly as possible. That's what attracted me to the series in the first place. Being able to try to speedrun bosses and getting grade for that speed with combat elegance and efficiency. Getting through the game fast enough without NG+ felt great.

With that said, Tales games are designed with combo counters in mind, as much as people dislike comparing it to action games and fighting games. Games such as DMC, NG, Bayo, Rising, etc. balance their combo essentials with difficulty. Many of the broken combo videos on Xillia and from what I've experienced throughout playing the game are only on normal enemies. I honestly think Vesperia prior to Xillia was the best and more consistent way to infinite combo bosses with Overlimit. Infinite combo scenarios with Tales games in the past are more often cases where the player knows the ins/outs of the combo system, where they're on NG+, or if they're later on in the game. Going against higher combos, imo, just goes against the entire idea of LMBS itself. It's a system that is built on having decent combos and getting fights done as fast as possible for higher grade.

I would really wish they'd fix their difficulty settings, too. Don't make the stats multiply like crazy because the fights just get tedious at that point (namely HP). Giving bosses extra skills on different difficulties would really make a difference as opposed to simply inflating their stats. Give players a genuine reason to play on these higher difficulties. Items, grade, something.

If Xillia's bosses are supposed to be providing some sort of newfound challenge, then I'm surprised people aren't thinking of bosses from games prior to Hearts that were challenging to a certain degree without enforcing this sort of thing on the player.

If you ask me, the real problem that Tales battle systems truly have is the AI systems in place that make things easy to exploit in the first place. Fix that first and foremost before applying (imo) unneeded fixes to a battle system that relies on a combo system.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
I forget, but does artes usage count contribute anything in this game? I remember previous Tales did (but I can't remember the effects).
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I'll show myself out the door :(

We can at least agree on Xillia having a better battle system than Graces F, right?

....right?

ok I'll off myself with this shotgun.

I will politely disagree. Graces f had a much better battle system IMO, mostly due to the side-step and the way attacks worked with those points you could raise. Much more satisfying to me.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I forget, but does artes usage count contribute anything in this game? I remember previous Tales did (but I can't remember the effects).
It does. Dependent on the Arte, too, in some cases.

With respect to arte usage:

100 uses - Silver star - +3% crit chance
200 uses - 2 Silver stars - +5% power for it
400 uses - 4 Silver stars - +20% link gauge increase
1000 uses - Gold star - 2/3 TP consumption
2000 uses - 2 Gold Stars - +20% power increase
4000 uses - 3 Gold stars - May not use AC (25% chance) when linked with someone
9999 uses - Mastered - 50% chance that the arte won't consume AC when linked.

With respect to how much XP everyone takes to reach level 99:
Least -> Jude >> Leia -> Elize = Milla -> Alvin -> Rowen -> Most

Yep. Character-specific.

Ex: Jude's Healer:
- faster after 100 and 400 uses
- AoE increase after 200 uses

Jude's Hienrenkyaku:
- attack speed increase after 200 uses
- makes knocked-down enemies stand after 400 uses

Jude's Houtsuiken:
- reduces knockback after 200 uses
- allows for higher juggling after 200 uses

Milla's Negative Holder:
- AoE Increase after 100 uses
- +1 hit after 100 uses and 200 uses

And so on and so forth.

Edit: I should mention that some Link Artes have this property, too. Ex: Piko Rain - +1 hammer for every 20 uses up to a max of 15 hammers after 300 uses
.
 
I forget, but does artes usage count contribute anything in this game? I remember previous Tales did (but I can't remember the effects).

Requoting this:

Additionally, I should post this too!

With respect to arte usage:

100 uses - Silver star - +3% crit chance
200 uses - 2 Silver stars - +5% power for it
400 uses - 4 Silver stars - +20% link gauge increase
1000 uses - Gold star - 2/3 TP consumption
2000 uses - 2 Gold Stars - +20% power increase
4000 uses - 3 Gold stars - May not use AC (25% chance) when linked with someone
9999 uses - Mastered - 50% chance that the arte won't consume AC when linked.

There's also individual effects for artes usage for each arte but it usually stops at 400 or less usages.

Though no grade bonuses like how Graces gave them.
 

demidar

Member
soo... where do you get a pink emerald? i recall someone say its near the end... well i think im near the end.

It's on "the other side", just on the trails I think.

Edit: It's all well and good to poke at the boss battle and say they're terrible, but how would you fix it without making them just like regular battles but longer? I've got in my mind a few gimmicks but not enough to fill out a game's worth of bosses (if we're not rabidly reusing assets).
 

M3z_

Member
I currently just entered
Orda Palace
and my game clock is only at like 32 hours. This game is definitely way shorter than most tales games. Wished it was better, it still has some of the things I like about tales games but does nothing to standout for me. It has been a decent experience for the most part, was just hoping the game would be really good, but instead I have just gotten another decent tales game. I hope Xillia 2 is better.
 

Pooya

Member
I can't stop playing this thing, halp :( gotta reach lv 99.

I'm amazed that I didn't miss any subevent without using a guide... though I backtracked the hell out of the game. It was great to see the storylines conclude in the last chapter, I think the subevents were done well and if you like the world they were quite interesting. To think this game came out around the same time as 13-2, that game is total shit in comparison.

graphics are poor, and some of the areas are bland but otherwise it was a solid game with good amount of content and events.
 

demidar

Member
I said before that I didn't like Agria, but now that I finished the game I like her quite a lot, mainly due to the delivery of her line. She's still a bitch of course but a hilarious, well-acted one.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
First Tales game. My main character's(Jude) control mode should be set to manual and Alvin and Milla should be set to Auto correct?

Yeah, auto is set for whoever you're not using. The computer will control them for you.

The character you want to use, you can select manual or semi-auto. Manual gives you full control over the character. Semi-Auto has some slight differences. Any attacks you do, it'll move your character in range of the enemy and then attacks while Manual doesn't. Semi-auto also guards attacks for you if you're not pressing anything.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Well, beat Jude's side. All in all, I had a great time with it and I blazed right through it. Normally takes me longer than a week to beat a jRPG, but this one was really good.

Ready for Xillia 2 now.
 

Finalow

Member
you really have to spam those artes to get some decent bonuses. not sure how useful that is.

anyway, I never had much problems with bosses going in OVL until that 4 bosses fight in the colosseum, that was some really bullshit fight on hard.
 
you really have to spam those artes to get some decent bonuses. not sure how useful that is.

anyway, I never had much problems with bosses going in OVL until that 4 bosses fight in the colosseum, that was some really bullshit fight on hard.

Eh, I will say maybe only the 2000 usage bonus could be useful as it's a free +20% power boost.

TP reduction isn't a big deal later in the game when you have many tools to recover TP.

Not using AC isn't that big of a deal either since it's still random and really it's not worth using a single arte that many times.
 
I'm closing in on the end of the game, so I'm finishing up some sidequests.

Does every character have a "personal" sidequest? I've done the ones for Elize, Ilbert, Jude/Leia. And they indicate Alvin's is back in
the other world
(speaking of which, how do I get back there after returning to Reize Maxia?)

Does Milla have one?
 
I got the game really early and yet only 12 hours in, had a lot of busy days :(

Anyway, Please don't be made at me but I enjoyed the first 12 hours of Graces more than Xillia :p !

Maybe that will change in the upcoming hours?
 

Seda

Member
I got started on this this weekend, just completed Fort Gandala.

Obviously I'm not very far yet, but I really don't have any strong opinions about this game either way. The combat is fun enough to keep my attention, and finally at this point the plotline is now a teensy bit interesting after a few hours of feeling quite indifferent towards it.

Rowen is my favorite character at this point.
 

TripleSun

Member
So after
killing Nachtigal
it told me how to use those really powerful arts by pressing X after a linked art or something but it doesn't seem to work.

Also I'm traveling and got a skit with Rowen and Alvin and Rowen's like "Then you will never know bazongas. You have to want it, Jude. You have to need it." God I'm laughing so hard at this whole skit. I love Rowen's character so damn much lol.
 

PKrockin

Member
So after
killing Nachtigal
it told me how to use those really powerful arts by pressing X after a linked art or something but it doesn't seem to work.

Also I'm traveling and got a skit with Rowen and Alvin and Rowen's like "Then you will never know bazongas. You have to want it, Jude. You have to need it." God I'm laughing so hard at this whole skit. I love Rowen's character so damn much lol.

Hold X after an Arcane Arte (they have a sparkle on their icon) in overlimit.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
So after
killing Nachtigal
it told me how to use those really powerful arts by pressing X after a linked art or something but it doesn't seem to work.
Make sure you have Arcane Arts (they're artes with little sparkle designs in the menu) like Jude's Savage Roar. Just go into overlimit and use the arte and then hold X while the enemy is getting hit with it. It won't work if the enemy's guarding by blocking or being in Overlimit.
 
Finished the game. Still can't put it down. Playing the bonus dungeon now to unlock the Devil's Arms, then at some point I'll start a Milla playthrough. But I really do need to finish Dragon's Crown first.
 

TripleSun

Member
Thanks guys. Now I see! The little glittery icon on Jude's artes. I was wondering what I was doing wrong!

Also kind of a question before I finish the game.
Do you ever figure out why Jiao killed Elize's parents and then ends to care for her so much? Also what about Agria learning about her background more, or is just knowing that everyone she loved gotten killed enough to warrant her insanity?
But yeah just some questions I want to know if we get answers to, I don't want to know the answers if they somewhere explain them. Thank you.
 

MogCakes

Member
I'm having trouble with
Agria
. Currently at lv34 on moderate difficulty. I'm being stomped by the djinns she keeps summoning, they get very annoying and are hard to take down quickly. Also
Agria
keeps healing herself with items a few times a minute keeping her hp at full. Combined with the djinn summons it's making for a very annoying fight and the first boss so far that has actually stumped me. I should mention that until now I hadn't bought any new equipment since the beginning of the game, and got the shops up to date for this fight, but I'm still having trouble because my DPS isn't enough to mitigate her heals. Any tips?
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
When do I get the Bazongas skit?
 

Rhapsody

Banned
When do I get the Bazongas skit?

When you get all 6 party members together iirc.
I'm having trouble with
Agria
. Currently at lv34 on moderate difficulty. I'm being stomped by the djinns she keeps summoning, they get very annoying and are hard to take down quickly. Also
Agria
keeps healing herself with items a few times a minute keeping her hp at full. Combined with the djinn summons it's making for a very annoying fight and the first boss so far that has actually stumped me. I should mention that until now I hadn't bought any new equipment since the beginning of the game, and got the shops up to date for this fight, but I'm still having trouble because my DPS isn't enough to mitigate her heals. Any tips?
Link with Leia because of her Item Steal ability. To make it work, just knock the enemy down and Leia will usually try to steal.
 

MogCakes

Member
When you get all 6 party members together iirc.

Link with Leia because of her Item Steal ability. To make it work, just knock the enemy down and Leia will usually try to steal.

So basically wipe out the two bodyguards, link with Leia and then knock her down repeatedly to keep her from healing or summoning?
 

RalchAC

Member

You are so much right... I've found some bosses in the game boring and frustrating in the game becuase of the combo breaking. I really found a lot more satisfaying fighting against a group of enemies in the abandoned mines being underleveled (I think it was like lvl 40 vs 24). Combats were difficult, and you have to tweak your strategies, items and party setup to make everything work. I know that if i make a mistake i will regret it. But it was fun because I loved the feel that I could be blown away if I don't do everything right. In boss fights I don't feel like this.

The one where I found the better balance between cheapness / design were probably Vesperia or Abyss. In Graces I started hating that combo breaking but if I use faster A artes it didn't happen so much. Although, I love its fucking battle system. And Pascal. And I hate Cheria and Hubert. Seriously. Most annoying cast ever. And I hated that Naruto/Sasuke relationship between Richard and Asbel.

And I would not like Tales of games so much if it weren't for its long combos. Nearly every game has broken characters. But I love using Shining Fang - Dragon Swarm - Shining Fang - Shining Fang - Shining Fang Altered arte - (Automatic Overlimit, more and more hits until it reaches lvl 3) and end with Savage Wolf Fury mystic art.

Of course I couldn't do this againt bosses. But it was amazing and I feel so powerful it was amusing lol.
 

MilkBeard

Member
beat the game the second time on Milla's route.

Game is now my second worst of 2013, it used to be first so it moved.... down? Bamco must be happy by this outcome.

Funny how the only way I can derive any sort of fun is by being tremendously overpowered. The battle system is garbage but better than Graces F's, there's only like three good songs, plot sucks but is it ever good?, overworld design sucks, almost all the towns sucks.
~

Not to pick on ya but the town designs are a definite draw for me. I find a lot of the towns match the artistic design of some of my favorite anime. ...Eh, to each his own.

Also disagree about your comments on the battle system entirely. It's another draw of the Tales series for me.

..And I still feel Graces f's system was better, although Xillia's battle system starts to get really good when you have the artes ball and enough skills to fill most of the slots.
 

Xenoflare

Member
Just finished chapter 1, really liking the game thus far. Somehow this game reminds me of FF XIII some ways, but compared to XIII, ToX is still a Tales game through and through, not a bastardization.

Milla's voice is one of the most 50/50 on delivery I've ever heard, her "lisp" sometimes get's in the way, but at times it's really not that bad. Looks like my suspicion about bad recordings was right, sometimes that "lisp" doesn't show and sometimes it does.

I'm actually looking forward in her VA's performance in Xillia 2
You know, Alt. Milla and everything

and I will forever hate myself, I raged when I found out that I wasted all my gald on elemental weapons, I snapped and went and bought the 300,000 gald DLC.

WHY DID I DO THAT, the game even mocked me for saying all those gald came from battles. SHUT UP JUDE.

The shop is really stupid on tempting you with "hey, look at this fancy new sword you we are going to stock but not unless you donate to us moar of your stuff :p"
 
Think I'll wrap this up tonight. Learned that I can't even use devil arms until after I beat the final boss, so skipping that then.

Is there a massive final dungeon? About how many hrs left now that I just got the dagger?
 
I currently just entered
Orda Palace
and my game clock is only at like 32 hours. This game is definitely way shorter than most tales games. Wished it was better, it still has some of the things I like about tales games but does nothing to standout for me. It has been a decent experience for the most part, was just hoping the game would be really good, but instead I have just gotten another decent tales game. I hope Xillia 2 is better.

Admittedly I haven't finished the game (near the end of Chapter 3) but unless you visit that location twice you are only just past the the half way point.
 

demidar

Member
Think I'll wrap this up tonight. Learned that I can't even use devil arms until after I beat the final boss, so skipping that then.

Is there a massive final dungeon? About how many hrs left now that I just got the dagger?

The final dungeon is literally 3 rooms, not even large maze-like rooms, just straightforward paths. I for one welcome final dungeons that are short.
 
Top Bottom