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Tales of Xillia |OT| - Teach me about Bazongas!

The final dungeon is literally 3 rooms, not even large maze-like rooms, just straightforward paths. I for one welcome final dungeons that are short.

the worst is when you come home after work, thinking i'm gonna beat this game, 5 hours later, you realize that this wasn't the final boss, and SPOILERS, god is, but he's holed up in his own dungeon somewhere else.

then you call in sick lol.


I beat this tonight, then saints row 4 tomorrow! Complete opposite sides of the spectrum :D



So you don't actually get any weapons from anything? Not even colliseum? fuuck, thats really the only reason i suffered through coliseum as a healer or w/e in other tales games >.>
 

demidar

Member
the worst is when you come home after work, thinking i'm gonna beat this game, 5 hours later, you realize that this wasn't the final boss, and SPOILERS, god is, but he's holed up in his own dungeon somewhere else.

then you call in sick lol.


I beat this tonight, then saints row 4 tomorrow! Complete opposite sides of the spectrum :D



So you don't actually get any weapons from anything? Not even colliseum? fuuck, thats really the only reason i suffered through coliseum as a healer or w/e in other tales games >.>

If you finish the Grandmaster level in the coliseum (which is solo), you get a joke weapon which are still pretty powerful, but they are dwarfed by Devil Weapons when you unlock their potential. Finishing an advanced solo gives the character a new skill.

Saint's Row 4 comes out tomorrow? I need to get my internet fixed quickly T_T
 
you can't even use devil weapons until AFTER you beat the game though... whats the point >.<


hate games that do that, especially this game. there are already millions of ways to break combat, let me do more damage.


Also, a little thing with jrpgs i hate, Def stat. Instead of having def increase with level of mobs, why not just increase the hp?

Takes the same time to kill a mob, but i like seeing progressively bigger numbers... or why have numbers at all?
 

demidar

Member
you can't even use devil weapons until AFTER you beat the game though... whats the point >.<


hate games that do that, especially this game. there are already millions of ways to break combat, let me do more damage.


Also, a little thing with jrpgs i hate, Def stat. Instead of having def increase with level of mobs, why not just increase the hp?

Takes the same time to kill a mob, but i like seeing progressively bigger numbers... or why have numbers at all?

True, the post-game in this game is piss poor.

Defense stats add more depth (relatively speaking) to the combat, and is the way to make enemies either physically or magically resistant, or both with some rare or gimmick enemies. Otherwise, magic will always trump physical since you can just boil it down to DPS, defense stats throw a wrench into that and adds strategy as to which enemy to eliminate first, further complicated by elemental weaknesses and strengths. Adding in something like pure/true damage or defense penetration would give even more depth but that might overwhelm some people (these are typically things that are implemented in games like LoL/Dota 2, but those games are "slower").
 
Errrrr... I'd... disagree.

Wait, what's the worst game you've played this year?


I do think guard breaks are something that should be more reasonable. Something like 6-10 hits are far too little for my taste, but having the boss merely counter you whenever you spam certain artes, or use the wrong arte and they counter, or something like that. Make bosses more intelligent instead of tanks with Glory, teching out of combos, going into OVL/using hi-ougis consistently with little reprieve. Them using hi-ougis often and for seemingly little reason is just icing on the cake, and is not a decent way of providing any sort of challenge to the player. For the most part, the player is going to run circles around the arena, dodging the enemy when they have a red exclamation mark over their heads or dodging the attack that extends into the hi-ougi because the boss is designed with free-run in mind as opposed to proper side-stepping, dodging, parrying, etc. A lot of the time, you're not going to have your entire party hitting the boss for 100+ hits since you're going to be healing, supporting, etc. with other AI-directed characters.

This is nothing about "oh, hey, put some thought into your combos next time!" No, it's because the bosses are designed with Free Run in mind with consistent use of hi-ougis with little player reprieve. It doesn't necessarily enforce smarter play at all because your progress is going to be stilted since you're busy dodging an arte until the boss OVL is over. I miss when Tales games used to enforce the player getting battles done as quickly as possible. That's what attracted me to the series in the first place. Being able to try to speedrun bosses and getting grade for that speed with combat elegance and efficiency. Getting through the game fast enough without NG+ felt great.

With that said, Tales games are designed with combo counters in mind, as much as people dislike comparing it to action games and fighting games. Games such as DMC, NG, Bayo, Rising, etc. balance their combo essentials with difficulty. Many of the broken combo videos on Xillia and from what I've experienced throughout playing the game are only on normal enemies. I honestly think Vesperia prior to Xillia was the best and more consistent way to infinite combo bosses with Overlimit. Infinite combo scenarios with Tales games in the past are more often cases where the player knows the ins/outs of the combo system, where they're on NG+, or if they're later on in the game. Going against higher combos, imo, just goes against the entire idea of LMBS itself. It's a system that is built on having decent combos and getting fights done as fast as possible for higher grade.

I would really wish they'd fix their difficulty settings, too. Don't make the stats multiply like crazy because the fights just get tedious at that point (namely HP). Giving bosses extra skills on different difficulties would really make a difference as opposed to simply inflating their stats. Give players a genuine reason to play on these higher difficulties. Items, grade, something.

If Xillia's bosses are supposed to be providing some sort of newfound challenge, then I'm surprised people aren't thinking of bosses from games prior to Hearts that were challenging to a certain degree without enforcing this sort of thing on the player.

If you ask me, the real problem that Tales battle systems truly have is the AI systems in place that make things easy to exploit in the first place. Fix that first and foremost before applying (imo) unneeded fixes to a battle system that relies on a combo system.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. They completely missed the mark with bosses in Xillia and apparently it's a little bit better in Xillia 2.

It really sucks the tension out of the fight when you realize bosses are designed to disallow you from actually using the combat system as designed based on linking artes together to rack up damage and to up your link gauge for link artes and overlimit/mystic arte finishers. Instead you can only do a few hits and an arte before they automatically counter you by that point. This also ruins rival fights as they can combo you to kingdom come but you have to tip toe around them because of partial glory and auto counter bs. I don't understand how this even got past playtesting. I'm wondering if anyone broke it the designers that having bosses counter after a few hits was a bad idea and completely anathema to the proposed gameplay. Perhaps that's why it's apparently a bit different in Xillia 2? I'm not sure since I haven't played it myself so I'll have to wait until it's released over here before I can make a clear judgment.

I just really hope they don't repeat the same mistakes for the new game they are developing.

With all that said I'm working on reducing my sleep deprivation so maybe I'll be able to finish the game now in a timely manner.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
So basically wipe out the two bodyguards, link with Leia and then knock her down repeatedly to keep her from healing or summoning?

Just knock her down when you can. Once Leia is able to steal an item, the enemy can't use items for the rest of the battle. Just try knocking her down when you're able to get the chance. I went for it as soon as possible. As for stopping the summoning, the boss for won't stop summoning enemies iirc.
 

demidar

Member
I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. They completely missed the mark with bosses in Xillia and apparently it's a little bit better in Xillia 2.

It really sucks the tension out of the fight when you realize bosses are designed to disallow you from actually using the combat system as designed based on linking artes together to rack up damage and to up your link gauge for link artes and overlimit/mystic arte finishers. Instead you can only do a few hits and an arte before they automatically counter you by that point. This also ruins rival fights as they can combo you to kingdom come but you have to tip toe around them because of partial glory and auto counter bs. I don't understand how this even got past playtesting. I'm wondering if anyone broke it the designers that having bosses counter after a few hits was a bad idea and completely anathema to the proposed gameplay. Perhaps that's why it's apparently a bit different in Xillia 2? I'm not sure since I haven't played it myself so I'll have to wait until it's released over here before I can make a clear judgment.

I just really hope they don't repeat the same mistakes for the new game they are developing.

With all that said I'm working on reducing my sleep deprivation so maybe I'll be able to finish the game now in a timely manner.

How were bosses in earlier games? My memory fails me, and so does my internet. Could you combo them to infinity?
 
bosses just feel like they are designed around jude lol.


get a few hits in,

!

pivot behind them.

repeat.



confused is probably the lamest side effect.

That devil beast thats a bird or something that can very easily confuse your own freaking party.

potatoes.


I probably shoooould equip gear that null that... but i'm too stubborn/lazy.
 
How were bosses in earlier games? My memory fails me, and so does my internet. Could you combo them to infinity?

Bosses in earlier games had things like penetrate barriers, counter mystic artes (one example would be Ashe in TotA where he would counter your mystic arte with his own but only if he was on the ground so you could combo him in the air before using yours to get past that), and soft counters that could be baited or attacked through allowing you to get a whole load of damage off.

Difficulty in previous games wasn't that bad when enemies have various ways to deal tons of damage to your party. Also it's likely only a small subset of players will actually be looking for infinite combo's while the majority is just probably playing normally linking a few artes together per combo. It's not like every game is ToV where doing infinite's is easy as hell because of Godlimit and tension skills. Good play and intelligent use of the tools given to you should be rewarded not punished imo.

Saying fuck you to your own combat system is no way to design bosses (I'm not saying that you said this for clarity :p).
 
I found myself really enjoying the bosses. At least they gave you a clear signal when it was about to strike unlike in Graces. In fact, I think it kinda balances the gameplay a bit.

It is really easy and fun to level up in this game. The developers probably thought the game would be a bit too easy if the bosses just took the hits without being able to fight back. It gave the game a fair challenge IMO.
 
How were bosses in earlier games? My memory fails me, and so does my internet. Could you combo them to infinity?

In a lot of cases, pretty much. Yuri in Vesperia could juggle basically anything in the game like a clown with the right setup.

Anyway, got this game on Friday and man, it's fun. Already like it a lot better than Graces. I'm at
Orda Palace, about to storm the place to fight Nachtigal.

I seriously don't get the Jude hate now after playing for myself, he's pretty damn cool actually.
Yes, he's a big time Milla stan, but he's not all outward and annoying with it like most Tales characters with feelings (ex: Cheria).
He's calm, rational, doesn't put up with bullshit (particularly Leia's) has an awesome fighting style too.

Speaking of Leia, she's actually cool too and I didn't think I'd like her. She's really nice, means well and like Jude,
also isn't over the top with her feelings. They both seem like normal people with crushes, and not the typical Tales caricatures in that respect.

Alvin
would be cool if he wasn't a traitorous bastard who screws you over every chance he gets, but he is so fuck him.
It's a little sad watching his "grey area, world-weary experienced guy" act after watching Yuri do it much, much better.
 
The thing is the way Xillia does it does not increase the difficulty, it just makes things tedious.

Given the choice between being able to use the battle system as intended or punch punch punch arte backdash times infinity I'll go with the former choice every time.

Either way the boss is going to die, it's just that one choice maintains what you've learned over the course of the game while the other kind of says fuck that we're not sure how to balance boss encounters so we'll just have them counter everything you do after 5 hits.

It doesn't balance anything period, just bogs down the gameplay.

I think working on the AI more would be beneficial. For the next game I'm hoping they do and include gameplay systems that enemies can make use of as well. Things like sidestepping and backdashing and other systems that will give enemies more things to do and bring them up to your level.
 

demidar

Member
Bosses in earlier games had things like penetrate barriers, counter mystic artes (one example would be Ashe in TotA where he would counter your mystic arte with his own but only if he was on the ground so you could combo him in the air before using yours to get past that), and soft counters that could be baited or attacked through allowing you to get a whole load of damage off.

Difficulty in previous games wasn't that bad when enemies have various ways to deal tons of damage to your party. Also it's likely only a small subset of players will actually be looking for infinite combo's while the majority is just probably playing normally linking a few artes together per combo. It's not like every game is ToV where doing infinite's is easy as hell because of Godlimit and tension skills. Good play and intelligent use of the tools given to you should be rewarded not punished imo.

Saying fuck you to your own combat system is no way to design bosses (I'm not saying that you said this for clarity :p).

I was thinking that maybe they should implement fighting game mechanics to limit infinites, like increasing gravity the longer a combo goes on so the boss falls to the ground faster than you can connect more hits, or they automatically down themselves after getting hit x number of times to get them some recovery time. Otherwise better AI and giving them other defensive abilities like backstep/side dodge, creating walls or patches of dangerous ground (the usurper boss in Graces f did that), stage hazards, reinforcements, observable overlimit, slow moving homing projectiles fired from outside the battle arena, etc. It seems fighting a boss 4v1 is a bad way to go about things and they need some extra help otherwise the only recourse is the bullshit Xillia bosses pull.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I was thinking that maybe they should implement fighting game mechanics to limit infinites, like increasing gravity the longer a combo goes on so the boss falls to the ground faster than you can connect more hits, or they automatically down themselves after getting hit x number of times to get them some recovery time. Otherwise better AI and giving them other defensive abilities like backstep/side dodge, creating walls or patches of dangerous ground (the usurper boss in Graces f did that), stage hazards, reinforcements, observable overlimit, slow moving homing projectiles fired from outside the battle arena, etc.
I was actually thinking of something like fights that include some gimmicks, to be honest with you, provided that they're executed well. And these are actually good ideas! Sure, it might feel like a deterrent for some people who just like to use the same artes over and over or mash O/X for normal attacks over and over and button-mash all over the place, but for some people who were asking for more in-depth combat with less braindead boss AI, this might feel a whole lot better. I'd like bosses to react to the different types of artes you use too. If they're elemental and you use their own element on them by accident, they should counter you vs just getting 1/2 or 0 damage from it. Make AI smarter so that they give you heck if you use the wrong attacks or that some characters are better to have in-battle than others.

But absolutely. Hazards/some stage gimmicks might actually work for me if they're executed well.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Saying fuck you to your own combat system is no way to design bosses (I'm not saying that you said this for clarity :p).

I think you guys are definitely exaggerating on how bad the boss battles are in the game. Just because a boss will auto-break out of your combo after 5 hits doesn't ruin the entire battle system, it's just a tactic you have to be aware of. Are there better ways to make the boss battles challenging? Surely. But I think the point was that they wanted to throw you outside of the box instead of having you using the same tactics you do during normal battles. They only happen rarely anyway, and if there's a problem then just overlevel like in every other JRPG in the universe and you won't really have to worry about it.

..eh, that's just me I guess. I've been enjoying them so far.
 
tales games also need... idk, characters need a wider attack range. It's like the characters are designed for a 1v1 battle, or if the game was 2d.

it gets annoying trying to fight a cluster of flamethrower dudes spinning around.release your inner dynasty warrior!
 

scy

Member
I think you guys are definitely exaggerating on how bad the boss battles are in the game. Just because a boss will auto-break out of your combo after 5 hits doesn't ruin the entire battle system, it's just a tactic you have to be aware of. Are there better ways to make the boss battles challenging? Surely. But I think the point was that they wanted to throw you outside of the box instead of having you using the same tactics you do during normal battles. They only happen rarely anyway, and if there's a problem then just overlevel like in every other JRPG in the universe and you won't really have to worry about it.

It's less a case of them being bad, per se, and more that it goes against what the other Tales games did for bosses. Tales games in general have been about lengthy combos and speed (hence Grade tied to fight time) and the recent trend of them have been (vastly) different.

I'm with you in that I don't necessarily mind the super Armor bosses / auto-combo drops since half the Link Artes in the game serve as ways to break combos anyway. I just wish that there was some other mechanics in place. Not all bosses need that.

Edit: Also, I shouldn't be allowed to (or rewarded for?) free running in circles to "dodge" OL Mystic Arte triggers.

tales games also need... idk, characters need a wider attack range. It's like the characters are designed for a 1v1 battle, or if the game was 2d.

You get a lot of re-positioning Artes / Link Artes fairly early. I mean, early game you can use Negative Gate (Elize) spam with Judgment Gate (Sun Spark + Binding Sphere) to trap enemies. By the end of the game, you can just Whirlwind Snap (-> Tempest Pirouette) until the end of time.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I think you guys are definitely exaggerating on how bad the boss battles are in the game. Just because a boss will auto-break out of your combo after 5 hits doesn't ruin the entire battle system, it's just a tactic you have to be aware of.
You didn't read my previous post about what LMBS is really intended as, then. It's a hindrance to what the entire LMBS is, like it or not. Letting them tech out of combos quickly isn't really the way to fix them. Tales bosses have just gotten boring since Hearts because of that.

I don't overlevel in RPGs often because it makes bosses boring as all hell. You don't need to grind in many cases in RPGs because you have debuffs/buffs there to allow your attacks to connect better. To be honest, sometimes it does boggle my mind whenever someone mentions they need to grind to an absurd to degree in an RPG when they really don't need to... and they have buffs/debuffs to alleviate the issue.

Edit: Also, I shouldn't be allowed to (or rewarded for?) free running in circles to "dodge" OL Mystic Arte triggers.
This. I liked when Graces penalized the player for Free Running needlessly, and rewarded them for dodging.

Xillia 2 kind of alleviates the issue with the weakness system and the bosses are harder than they are in Xillia thankfully, but even then, bosses still use the same sort of tactics that make you shake your head and wonder why they didn't bother to program smarter AI for this.
 

demidar

Member
I was actually thinking of something like fights that include some gimmicks, to be honest with you, provided that they're executed welll. And these are actually good ideas! Sure, it might feel like a deterrent for some people who just like to use the same artes over and over or mash O/X for normal attacks over and over and button-mash all over the place, but for some people who were asking for more in-depth combat with less braindead boss AI, this might feel a whole lot better. I'd like bosses to react to the different types of artes you use too. If they're elemental and you use their own element on them by accident, they should counter you vs just getting 1/2 or 0 damage from it. Make AI smarter so that they give you heck if you use the wrong attacks or that some characters are better to have in-battle than others.

But absolutely. Hazards/some stage gimmicks might actually work for me if they're executed well.

I agree, but that sounds like too much work for Namco lol. The only time when there shouldn't be any gimmicks is a 4v4 boss fight (or any fight with 2+ bosses) like the Chimeriad in the coliseum. There is also a problem with spellcasters and them, well, spamming spells. How would a boss counter spells without them being either immune to them, or constantly interrupting them rendering spellcasters useless? Elemental type changes or spell absorption maybe? Hard problem to solve.
 

scy

Member
I don't overlevel in RPGs often because it makes bosses boring as all hell. You don't need to grind in many cases in RPGs because you have debuffs/buffs there to allow your attacks to connect better. To be honest, sometimes it does boggle my mind whenever someone mentions they need to grind to an absurd to degree in an RPG when they really don't need to... and they have buffs/debuffs to alleviate the issue.

Most the time, my grinding is because I have a bad habit of just killing every enemy on screen before moving on. Or getting stuck trying to do something (e.g., "pls give x3 multiplier" over and over and over) and lose track of things.
 

PKrockin

Member
or they automatically down themselves after getting hit x number of times to get them some recovery time.
This was what they did in past Tales games like Symphonia and Abyss. They'd just fall down after like 80 hits and after a knockdown in those games the character would get stagger immunity and increased defense for a few seconds. They were still kind of combo bait though since you could reset them with a unison attack or something.
 

Wilsongt

Member
It's less a case of them being bad, per se, and more that it goes against what the other Tales games did for bosses. Tales games in general have been about lengthy combos and speed (hence Grade tied to fight time) and the recent trend of them have been (vastly) different.

I'm with you in that I don't necessarily mind the super Armor bosses / auto-combo drops since half the Link Artes in the game serve as ways to break combos anyway. I just wish that there was some other mechanics in place. Not all bosses need that.

Edit: Also, I shouldn't be allowed to (or rewarded for?) free running in circles to "dodge" OL Mystic Arte triggers.



You get a lot of re-positioning Artes / Link Artes fairly early. I mean, early game you can use Negative Gate (Elize) spam with Judgment Gate (Sun Spark + Binding Sphere) to trap enemies. By the end of the game, you can just Whirlwind Snap (-> Tempest Pirouette) until the end of time.

Nope. See the red ! and start running like hell to get away from the boss. I love being able to do that.

Also, linking with Elize is so broken.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
I was thinking that maybe they should implement fighting game mechanics to limit infinites, like increasing gravity the longer a combo goes on so the boss falls to the ground faster than you can connect more hits, or they automatically down themselves after getting hit x number of times to get them some recovery time. Otherwise better AI and giving them other defensive abilities like backstep/side dodge, creating walls or patches of dangerous ground (the usurper boss in Graces f did that), stage hazards, reinforcements, observable overlimit, slow moving homing projectiles fired from outside the battle arena, etc. It seems fighting a boss 4v1 is a bad way to go about things and they need some extra help otherwise the only recourse is the bullshit Xillia bosses pull.
I like that first idea since that would help balance things out. I'd be fine if Tales handled boss battles like that.
I think you guys are definitely exaggerating on how bad the boss battles are in the game. Just because a boss will auto-break out of your combo after 5 hits doesn't ruin the entire battle system, it's just a tactic you have to be aware of. Are there better ways to make the boss battles challenging? Surely. But I think the point was that they wanted to throw you outside of the box instead of having you using the same tactics you do during normal battles. They only happen rarely anyway, and if there's a problem then just overlevel like in every other JRPG in the universe and you won't really have to worry about it.

..eh, that's just me I guess. I've been enjoying them so far.
While I still enjoy Xillia's boss battles, I just feel like they could've been done better. A lot of the time it's basically use one arte and then run away. For spell casters, it's kind of annoying too. You'll have your party attack while you're still casting, and once your spell is done, auto-guard kicks in.

With the way AC is implemented, I suppose this is the only way to do the boss battles. CC Tales wouldn't let you recharge all your CC after a quick pause, so doing long combos involved some planning or luck.

Edit: All this boss talk makes me want to replay Destiny and Graces now lol
 

scy

Member
Nope. See the red ! and start running like hell to get away from the boss. I love being able to do that.

I don't mind that. I do mind being able to "Oh, they OL'd? Guess I just stay away" since the enemy AI is so focused on catching you with their Arcane Arte that they break down (aka, Elemental Hymn Elemental Hymn Elemental Hymn Elemental Hymn spam).

I'd rather be forced to just fight the OL and dodge the Arcane Arte. Being able to just dodge the entire OL since free run has no cost (or hidden cost in lengthening the fight duration meaning something) is a little silly. Though we can always just say that's a player issue since, hey, I could just fight it instead, I guess.
 
It's less a case of them being bad, per se, and more that it goes against what the other Tales games did for bosses. Tales games in general have been about lengthy combos and speed (hence Grade tied to fight time) and the recent trend of them have been (vastly) different.

I'm with you in that I don't necessarily mind the super Armor bosses / auto-combo drops since half the Link Artes in the game serve as ways to break combos anyway. I just wish that there was some other mechanics in place. Not all bosses need that.

Edit: Also, I shouldn't be allowed to (or rewarded for?) free running in circles to "dodge" OL Mystic Arte triggers.



You get a lot of re-positioning Artes / Link Artes fairly early. I mean, early game you can use Negative Gate (Elize) spam with Judgment Gate (Sun Spark + Binding Sphere) to trap enemies. By the end of the game, you can just Whirlwind Snap (-> Tempest Pirouette) until the end of time.
still, those are pretty much the only moves out of jude's arsenal for mob moves.
 

FSLink

Banned
I think you guys are definitely exaggerating on how bad the boss battles are in the game. Just because a boss will auto-break out of your combo after 5 hits doesn't ruin the entire battle system, it's just a tactic you have to be aware of. Are there better ways to make the boss battles challenging? Surely. But I think the point was that they wanted to throw you outside of the box instead of having you using the same tactics you do during normal battles. They only happen rarely anyway, and if there's a problem then just overlevel like in every other JRPG in the universe and you won't really have to worry about it.

..eh, that's just me I guess. I've been enjoying them so far.

It'd be fine if this applied to a few bosses, but this happens to all the bosses in the game. It breaks up the flow of how the battle system affects the bosses and how it worked in the past. You say "Are there better ways to make boss battles challenging?", sure, they were mostly damage sponges before, but they went the opposite way in making them better. It's bad design.

I also feel that if you're forced to overlevel in an action RPG that the battle system is then flawed.
 

Peff

Member
You know what really sucks?

"THAT'S A NICE CHAINED LINKED ARTE COMBO YOU GOT GOING ON THERE. IT WOULD BE A SHAME IT SOMEBODY WERE TO BULLSHIT A MYSTIC ARTE THROUGH IT."
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
It'd be fine if this applied to a few bosses, but this happens to all the bosses in the game. It breaks up the flow of how the battle system affects the bosses and how it worked in the past. You say "Are there better ways to make boss battles challenging?", sure, they were mostly damage sponges before, but they went the opposite way in making them better. It's bad design.

I also feel that if you're forced to overlevel in an action RPG that the battle system is then flawed.

Definitely. I don't like making the comparison, but this problem isn't nearly as prevalent in Star Ocean.
 

FSLink

Banned
You know what really sucks?

"THAT'S A NICE CHAINED LINKED ARTE COMBO YOU GOT GOING ON THERE. IT WOULD BE A SHAME IT SOMEBODY WERE TO BULLSHIT A MYSTIC ARTE THROUGH IT."

During one of the later boss fights, it's also really dumb that party members just run into Arcane Artes, and I have to link up with them to "move" them.

Definitely. I don't like making the comparison, but this problem isn't nearly as prevalent in Star Ocean.

I think the comparison is fine, considering they're sister series (both series started off developed by WolfTeam). I just really dislike that since Abyss, the 3D Tales' enemy AI has been badly programmed (see: being able to spam spells with 3 party members and control Guy or Luke and run around in circles around the enemy). Their best solution to this is to just make them auto break out of combos? No, that's just terrible.
 
still, those are pretty much the only moves out of jude's arsenal for mob moves.

Uh, yeah, not every character can have great mob and great 1 on 1 moves.

I mean Rowen and Elize are amazing at destroying a great number of things.

Though Jude does basically destroy everything around him once he gets Shattering Demon Fist.
 
Uh, yeah, not every character can have great mob and great 1 on 1 moves.

I mean Rowen and Elize are amazing at destroying a great number of things.

Though Jude does basically destroy everything around him once he gets Shattering Demon Fist.

don't you get that after you beat the game? Or is that something else. Don't think i have that unlocked.


Getting like 2 gp per level is not really making me eager to grind :/
 

LuuKyK

Member
Do I suck at this game or am I underlevelled? I got almost destroyed by
that big boar boss in Auj Oule.
I managed to win but only with Jude alive.

I am considering changing back to moderate but I am afraid it will mess up my game progression, regarding levels, titles and etc... I dont really know. The normal battles are fairly easy, but some of these boss battles are hard, its a sudden difficulty spike that kind of bothers me honestly. I mean the transition from common battles to boss battles.
 
i never play hard in tales games lol. I just don't think the AI can keep up tbh.

heck, on moderate, there are some bosses in this game that can thump you for 4000 damage when you have like 3k hp.


because fuck you baba.
 
I'm pretty sure the first thing I did was change the difficulty to the third option since fights end too fast otherwise.

Some of those field bosses are meant to be fought at later levels if that is what you're talking about.

They should have the God Eater team weigh in on how to make useful AI (for allies at least although I'm sure you could apply some of that to enemies as well).

I wonder if we'll see anything about the new game at this year's TGS.
 

LuuKyK

Member
I'm pretty sure the first thing I did was change the difficulty to the third option since fights end too fast otherwise.

Some of those field bosses are meant to be fought at later levels if that is what you're talking about.

They should have the God Eater team weigh in on how to make useful AI (for allies at least although I'm sure you could apply some of that to enemies as well).

I wonder if we'll see anything about the new game at this year's TGS.

No, this one I am talking about was a story boss, not the optional ones.

I know there are optional bosses because I tried to fight a Harpy-like monster over at those rocky areas and got killed in one hit. :lol

But yeah I think I will change back to moderate. I doubt I will even go for the platinum actually...
 
No, this one I am talking about was a story boss, not the optional ones.

I know there are optional bosses because I tried to fight a Harpy-like monster over at those rocky areas and got killed in one hit. :lol

But yeah I think I will change back to moderate. I doubt I will even go for the platinum actually...

pretty sure that was a devil arm boss... and those are like lvl 60 ;P


I feel like tales games worked at their best when its mostly 1v1 between you and the enemies, while the AI are all casters providing support.

This usually ended up better in 2d games.


Would be neat if they decided to do a tales game with elements from little king story or pikmin or something to offer more control with the party.
 
No, this one I am talking about was a story boss, not the optional ones.

I know there are optional bosses because I tried to fight a Harpy-like monster over at those rocky areas and got killed in one hit. :lol

But yeah I think I will change back to moderate. I doubt I will even go for the platinum actually...

I think I remember that now. If you want you can just Soaring whatever to knock the boss up even if they are blocking to make things easier. Having Leia and Elize can be good if you need more healing/ressurection. Try that fight again but make use of Jude's Soaring something arte which will give your party members time to do whatever they need to do.
 

demidar

Member
pretty sure that was a devil arm boss... and those are like lvl 60 ;P


I feel like tales games worked at their best when its mostly 1v1 between you and the enemies, while the AI are all casters providing support.

This usually ended up better in 2d games.


Would be neat if they decided to do a tales game with elements from little king story or pikmin or something to offer more control with the party.

I think he's talking about the Lord of Lakutum boss, the one you encounter trekking across a desert to get to Xian Du. I had a lot of trouble with that boss too, bigger difficulty spike than the Gattuso.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
I am loving the game, playing as Milla and Leia is so much fun ^__^

Is it me or is the game a LOT easier than Graces F? I had to pump the difficulty to hard to even get a respectable "challenge" I never ever died. In Graces F I had many more close calls and team wipeouts.

The music is really iffy though, Tales of the abyss and Symphonia have much better soundtracks. I would also hesitate to say the weaker Graces F has a more memorable soundtrack.
 
So I got to a new area in the game. So jazzy, chill, and... "normal"... But the freaking Seahaven looks exactly the same! lol.

Maybe there will be a reason for that I'll find out later...


@HCoreGamer101 I found it easier, too, which is why I'm playing on Hard instead of Moderate. It gets even easier toward the end if you spam 100% EXP bonuses. (This one boss gave me 100,000 EXP with the bonus and each character leveled up like 3-4 times...)
 
Would you guys like to see the world map return in future games? I think I prefer it to the connected areas.

maybe, i just hope they have priorities of fixing bosses lol.

don't want them to be all:

oh the fans want world maps again.

switching priorities!

weeeee!




I still think eternia had the best open world, with the ship, and how you can go in a sub and plane... and explore the ship a bit.


A tales games revolving around a protag pirate would be neat.
 
Okay, guys. I have kind of an emergency here... I'm on the mage knight's final form, and I accidentally hit the d-pad and am now playing as Milla, who I know jack-fuck about. How do I switch back to Jude?
 
Okay, guys. I have kind of an emergency here... I'm on the mage knight's final form, and I accidentally hit the d-pad and am now playing as Milla, who I know jack-fuck about. How do I switch back to Jude?

L1 + direction Jude is in on the D-Pad.

maybe, i just hope they have priorities of fixing bosses lol.

don't want them to be all:

oh the fans want world maps again.

switching priorities!

weeeee!




I still think eternia had the best open world, with the ship, and how you can go in a sub and plane... and explore the ship a bit.


A tales games revolving around a protag pirate would be neat.

I think they can do both. I'm assuming this will maybe be their last main game for PS3 since the PS4 will probably be out over there by the time it comes out. It makes sense to me that you would want to capitalize on that by being one of the few RPG's available on a new shiny system that people want to buy games for to justify their purchase.
 

demidar

Member
Either they make interconnected areas better (I don't know how they could do that, the only game I can think of that did it right was Xenoblade) or they go back to having a world map. There are a few reasons why I prefer a world map: it makes the world feel larger, it's easier to hide secrets (what's on this island, what biome is over there, what's this building in the middle of nowhere) and trekking to other points of interests isn't time consuming. The hiding secrets part is the biggest reason I feel, in Xillia trails and paths are too obvious at hiding optional or secret content since you're able to see the entrance point from the map screen. World maps are also less dense in monster spawns and don't have that feeling of emptiness that the fields in Xillia has (everything is to scale from a third person perspective so people expect a higher density of interesting things, world maps are accepted to be a bit barren).
 
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