Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
A 70s set NYC Noire would make for a bitching sequel. In my opinion, a different city and different time period are essential.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Team Bondi's L.A. NOIRE |OT| Watchin' Faces, Solvin' Cases
- Thread starter ColonialRaptor
- Start date
But only if the Mario we're talking about is Super Mario RPG.zlatko said:
Game has heavy auto-aim so that's fine. It's the controls themselves that are the problem. Shooting and aiming are better off on R1 and R2, and cover needs to be anywhere but R1. Shooting and running being on the same button is troublesome to say the least.Dechaios said:
spoilers from the final 2 missions
spoiler from ending
anyone else find it weird/interesting/potential copyright that the game focuses around an origami crane just like heavy rain
spoiler from ending
they have destroyed any chance of having good DLC with this unless they introduce a new character. How can you kill off Cole, and then have downloadable missions later which feature him? stupid.... game is ripe for DLC imo
Lime said:
This is what many people are not getting with LA Noire. It is set in a time which is significantly different to our society of today. Things like this was acceptable
it's amazing how well they pulled this off to be honest. Like when the guy burns his house down (this is not a case) to piss his wife off, he is told he did the right thing
they clearly wanted to display how discriminated against women were in the society of the time.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I agree with the rest of your post, but history has shown that the words "Rockstar" and "Polish" do not go together.zlatko said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehg2EaYhoJsGuerrillas in the Mist said:
I'm perplexed by people's whinging about the driving. I don't understand how GTA4's was any better. I thought they handled great.
I also thought the shooting was perfectly fine. Rolling in and out of cover didn't always work they way I wanted it to but it was a pretty minor inconvenience. Holding down RT as soon as you hit RB to pop out of cover sends Cole into a run instantly. I never once died due to struggling with the controls.
As for DLC,
I also thought the shooting was perfectly fine. Rolling in and out of cover didn't always work they way I wanted it to but it was a pretty minor inconvenience. Holding down RT as soon as you hit RB to pop out of cover sends Cole into a run instantly. I never once died due to struggling with the controls.
As for DLC,
it will obviously have to slot into the existing desk progression rather than extend the story, unless they add a Kelso arc. It will be kind of weird downloading and playing new cases after I watched Cole get swept away though!
Choc said:
Yeah they are catching the period well the amount of out and out misogyny spoken by certain characters as if it's fact is hilarious. Even the way Cole talks to certain people which some gamers have seen as ott but was probably how cops handled business back then.
A suspects or a witnesses feelings were of secondary concern.
Kevitivity
Member
AShep said:
Agreed. I'm actually enjoying the driving a lot.
Kevitivity
Member
In classic Noir stories, there were no clear good/bad guys, which is one reason the Phelps character is so spot on.
Kevitivity said:
I have my partner drive me everywhere. If I try to get places in a timely manner on my own, then a traffic accident is highly to occur. If I'm driving slow, and taking stop signs and shit, then become sleepy quick. At least in something like RDR when I go from place to place on my horse there was often a loooooot of dialog work. Here when my partner drives it's 15-30 seconds of chatter, then it fast forwards. If I drive, and don't want to hit shit which I don't, then they chatter stops in 30, and the drive will be another few minutes.
I don't see what there is to enjoy. Horse riding in RDR lead to enjoying the views, often getting off the horse to get lost in the world through hunting/skinning or interacting with random people, etc.
On another note I just watched this:
http://youtu.be/NONzSstrKJE?t=8m30s
8:30 forward for the next 2 minutes is hilarious.
NullPointer
Member
GTA4 had the same problem with the shooting. It wasn't the aim or autoaim that was the problem so much as how the shooting interacted with the cover system and sprinting. You could try to quickly move from one cover position to the next but unless you reconfigured your hands to sprint right away (which was cumbersome) you'd calmly stroll and take hits in the process. Aiming from cover was also bad because you had to wait to swing your arm around and then reposition your aim from the new viewpoint. The whole system was clunky and made the shooting one of the worst parts of GTA4, especially in close quarters.zlatko said:
The funny thing is, it was only a little improved in Red Dead, but the slower pace of movement and firing actually fit the western genre better.
My main problems with shooting in LA Noire is the mapping of sprint and fire to the same trigger, aim acceleration, and how bad the attach/detach to cover system worked. That and you couldn't take a target down without killing them.
But yeah, I also learned to love the driving in GTA4. Took a while to get used to but no other open world game has driving anywhere near it in terms of quality. LA Noire driving is too twitchy with too much steering sensitivity. You can probably get used to it with practice. At least the various cars do have a different driving feel to them.
NullPointer said:
That's a fair point. I never felt in GTA4 or RDR that the shooting was impeding enjoyment. They sufficed and I was able to even enjoy something like RDR in the online multiplayer field.
Maybe that is the issue though with LA Noire what you mentioned. The lack of control change options in this day and age is a super strange omission and the actual cover mechanics are goofy. I also think the hit detection is off. There are moments where a half of a body is sticking out and I shoot at them as they shoot at me, and with the small white aim reticle it should be impossible to miss with such a big target for several shots, yet it happens.
The review I linked to above though made a good point----play the game in short bursts. The longer the session the quicker the fatigue sets in.
This game does have a really good atmosphere, I really loved the way all the different interiors looked. The crime scenes looked convincing, and I liked examining them all. The music was great, and I really love the way the faces in the game worked out. I also liked the driving model, it made the chases in cars work out well for me. Sadly, I feel like that's where the positives of this game stop.
The combat itself is not good, I have no idea what they were thinking with the controls they mapped for this. I see a lot of people try and sweep it under the rug, but as just mentioned, don't put it in the game if it's subpar. This is primarily in side missions, UNTIL the last third. I'm pretty sure the majority of my ingame kills came from the last 2 hours of gameplay.
But yeah, let's talk more about the last third of the game.
The detective parts, both investigating and interrogating, are the same thing repeated ad naseum. I really liked investigating at first, but there's nothing for the player themselves to piece together. You're being held by the hand all game long. To clarify, I turned off the clue hints for the entire game, but it doesn't really change much. You don't even use the majority of the clues, they only come into play to prove lies in interrogations. And speaking of that...ah, the interrogations again. A lot of people are struggling with these and people keep posting all these different methods, but the problem is nothing is CONSISTENT. These are by far the game's biggest screw up. The most consistent way to get by is say everything is a lie, then back out. This is gamey as fuck and completely immersion shattering, because no real interrogation would ever play out like this, but the way they reply usually gives you an idea of being on the right track or not. Beyond this, you now have truth/doubt, aka flipping a coin. Do you think the person is lying, but don't have the proof to prove it? Sorry to say, truth will sometimes be the option here, and phelps will continue the lead while doubt makes him yell at them and lose it. Of course, doubt can and should work here, and sometimes does, but who knows if it will until you actually pick one. And then there's the chime, immediately telling you if you messed up or not, also displaying the amount correct after you're done...don't worry, just more immersion shattering. But not quite as much as phelp's freakouts when you're actually missing questions. An incorrect use of doubt has cole make baseless accusations, calling people murderers, saying all kinds of shit and then suddenly becoming nice again for the next question, with the suspect playing along completely. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they removed all instances of being "wrong" so you wouldn't know if these people legitimately knew nothing, or you were missing leads. But really, the entire question system NEEDS overhauled if they do a sequel.
Actually pinning suspects was completely random and always unsatisfying. A lot of the cases just end with some guy running away and you finding the magical goldmine of damning evidence, you only actually go into the questioning rooms a few times out of 21 cases. This means the cases typically end on a fairly abrupt note, and the actual guilty party is someone that comes out of nowhere, meaning there's never anything you piece together in this game. I don't know how 95% of these crimes were actually pulled off, and never will with the way the game moves on. Also, every time you DO use the questioning rooms,
At times I liked the onfoot chases, but these randomly don't allow you to shoot a warning shot, you can't always tackle people, etc. They either go too fast(meaning you already know they're going to grab a hostage and you're going to kill them), or you just don't have your gun until these hostage scenarios where you magically get one. This is just an issue with the sidemissions, but it was still aggravating.
Car chases actually were pretty fun to me, even though these are also scripted in weirdly humorous ways. If you take too long to stop them, something else will. Whether it's getting smashed by a trolley or truck, or jumping off a ramp and the tires all fall off. It says "apprehend the suspect" after this, but again the game would sometimes have the person get out of the vehicle and attack you, meaning you could cheaply die by this at times. You have no choice but to kill when this sort of thing happens.
The actual story is also a mess. You get bits and pieces of the war throughout the game, but it's hard to really care. Cole is one of the most boring characters I can recall playing recently, and all the stuff he does in the game is never even expanded on.
There's probably even more that I dislike, but I think this is enough venting. I'm not even sure who the target audience for this game even is at this point. I love adventure games, phoenix wright is especially one of my favorite series out there. I didn't look at anything on this game before playing it, and just expected a slower paced game trying to piece together crimes, talking to a lot of people, and it being up to the player to figure out what happened. What I got was a game that holds my hand all the time, force a stupid arc on various desks that negatively impact the cases, and leave me with zero actual satisfaction with the outcome.
The detective part of this game disappoints me beyond anyway I can possibly explain. The mediocre everything else is the icing. The mess of a plot is the cherry on top.
The combat itself is not good, I have no idea what they were thinking with the controls they mapped for this. I see a lot of people try and sweep it under the rug, but as just mentioned, don't put it in the game if it's subpar. This is primarily in side missions, UNTIL the last third. I'm pretty sure the majority of my ingame kills came from the last 2 hours of gameplay.
But yeah, let's talk more about the last third of the game.
The game completely shifts focus here. I actually liked playing Kelso more than Cole, but that mansion shoot-up, the crazy chase destroying like 20 cars, and the sewer shooting are all weird as hell. I was laughing my ass off at these parts, the game stops pretending to be a detective game completely. I was weirdly okay with that, since everything about the detective part of this game is not nearly as good as it should have been.
The detective parts, both investigating and interrogating, are the same thing repeated ad naseum. I really liked investigating at first, but there's nothing for the player themselves to piece together. You're being held by the hand all game long. To clarify, I turned off the clue hints for the entire game, but it doesn't really change much. You don't even use the majority of the clues, they only come into play to prove lies in interrogations. And speaking of that...ah, the interrogations again. A lot of people are struggling with these and people keep posting all these different methods, but the problem is nothing is CONSISTENT. These are by far the game's biggest screw up. The most consistent way to get by is say everything is a lie, then back out. This is gamey as fuck and completely immersion shattering, because no real interrogation would ever play out like this, but the way they reply usually gives you an idea of being on the right track or not. Beyond this, you now have truth/doubt, aka flipping a coin. Do you think the person is lying, but don't have the proof to prove it? Sorry to say, truth will sometimes be the option here, and phelps will continue the lead while doubt makes him yell at them and lose it. Of course, doubt can and should work here, and sometimes does, but who knows if it will until you actually pick one. And then there's the chime, immediately telling you if you messed up or not, also displaying the amount correct after you're done...don't worry, just more immersion shattering. But not quite as much as phelp's freakouts when you're actually missing questions. An incorrect use of doubt has cole make baseless accusations, calling people murderers, saying all kinds of shit and then suddenly becoming nice again for the next question, with the suspect playing along completely. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they removed all instances of being "wrong" so you wouldn't know if these people legitimately knew nothing, or you were missing leads. But really, the entire question system NEEDS overhauled if they do a sequel.
Actually pinning suspects was completely random and always unsatisfying. A lot of the cases just end with some guy running away and you finding the magical goldmine of damning evidence, you only actually go into the questioning rooms a few times out of 21 cases. This means the cases typically end on a fairly abrupt note, and the actual guilty party is someone that comes out of nowhere, meaning there's never anything you piece together in this game. I don't know how 95% of these crimes were actually pulled off, and never will with the way the game moves on. Also, every time you DO use the questioning rooms,
you get to choose someone to throw away. Every instance of this in the game, both parties are innocent. I, the player, was aware of this, and could do nothing. You have all this evidence framed on people, so there's nothing to piece together. I can't even fully express how disappointed this aspect was to me, I thought you could legitimately put the wrong person away, but the game just punishes you for trying to piece together what happened. The best case of this is on the golden butterfly. I recall a lot of people saying they messed this case up, I don't blame ya. The husband had a lot more linked to him, but you actually got yelled at and a bad ranking for picking him. I understand that they would rather put away a pedophile, but in the PLAYER'S MIND, we're fucking detectives. We want to put away who we think is the guilty party of the crime, not play along with the bullshit the game throws at you. All of homocide is a shame, and arson does the same shit.
At times I liked the onfoot chases, but these randomly don't allow you to shoot a warning shot, you can't always tackle people, etc. They either go too fast(meaning you already know they're going to grab a hostage and you're going to kill them), or you just don't have your gun until these hostage scenarios where you magically get one. This is just an issue with the sidemissions, but it was still aggravating.
Car chases actually were pretty fun to me, even though these are also scripted in weirdly humorous ways. If you take too long to stop them, something else will. Whether it's getting smashed by a trolley or truck, or jumping off a ramp and the tires all fall off. It says "apprehend the suspect" after this, but again the game would sometimes have the person get out of the vehicle and attack you, meaning you could cheaply die by this at times. You have no choice but to kill when this sort of thing happens.
The actual story is also a mess. You get bits and pieces of the war throughout the game, but it's hard to really care. Cole is one of the most boring characters I can recall playing recently, and all the stuff he does in the game is never even expanded on.
So you randomly get pulled out of vice for cheating on his wife, then it time skips to arson and that's it. People hate you now, but you don't know why cole did it. You don't even fucking SEE HIS WIFE until she's throwing his shit out of the house, how am I supposed to care? His death was pulled off in such an obvious and ham-fisted way that I busted out laughing. It was so bad, I can't even believe it...
There's probably even more that I dislike, but I think this is enough venting. I'm not even sure who the target audience for this game even is at this point. I love adventure games, phoenix wright is especially one of my favorite series out there. I didn't look at anything on this game before playing it, and just expected a slower paced game trying to piece together crimes, talking to a lot of people, and it being up to the player to figure out what happened. What I got was a game that holds my hand all the time, force a stupid arc on various desks that negatively impact the cases, and leave me with zero actual satisfaction with the outcome.
The detective part of this game disappoints me beyond anyway I can possibly explain. The mediocre everything else is the icing. The mess of a plot is the cherry on top.
semiconscious
Member
Papercuts said:
if l.a. noire accomplished nothing else for me, it made me respect even more the sheer genius of the ace attorney, evidence-based conversation system. while not as 'cinematic' as l.a. noire's mechanic, being able to both question people freely & respond to challenges by simply using the evidence you've gathered is so much more intuitive, challenging, & satisfying...
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
If anything, I'd have liked it of the game was a tad more formulaic. As in, it would have been nice if there were more opportunities to bring suspects in and then interrogate all of them before choosing who to charge.
I think I'm right near the end of homicide at the moment, so maybe this will happen more.
So far I'm enjoying it on an interactive fiction level. Just going into people's houses and getting a snapshot of their lives in the 40s is enough to keep me entertained, for now.
I think I'm right near the end of homicide at the moment, so maybe this will happen more.
So far I'm enjoying it on an interactive fiction level. Just going into people's houses and getting a snapshot of their lives in the 40s is enough to keep me entertained, for now.
I'm at Vice right now, honestly this is barely a game. The "action" parts are pretty much automated and the interrogations matter very little. Even in the old point-and-click games I feel like I'm accomplishing more, L.A. Noire is an entirely brainless experience. I'm having fun with it, kind of, but it's definitely getting sold after I finish it.
I wonder what does Amir0x think after creaming over this game while hating on Heavy Rain, just based on the trailers. :lol
I wonder what does Amir0x think after creaming over this game while hating on Heavy Rain, just based on the trailers. :lol
semiconscious said:
Yeah, PW is done masterfully. I was hoping this game would give a similar satisfaction to taking down killers, but that is as far from the truth as possible.
tiff said:
Haha, maybe I should've given more of an endgame warning there since you didn't know, but yeah. It doesn't impact anything going forward though, because it happens so abruptly.
funkystudent
Member
just finished traffic.
Still not seeing a over arching story but I think its starting now.
also I screwed up that last case pretty hard but I still got 3 stars.
yay?
Still not seeing a over arching story but I think its starting now.
also I screwed up that last case pretty hard but I still got 3 stars.
yay?
You can have your partner drive to them, it makes you do the last five hundred metres maybe.jett said:
You're crazy. They could literally have removed the open world access and cut from area to area and have made a linear game. It's very wasteful, but it's not because they can't do otherwise, they clearly could.Y2Kev said:
Looking forward, I'm thinking about maybe replaying the game trying to every question wrong, just to see how it affects the on-rails experience. Cole, the detective who can't get anything right, climbs the ladder to LAPD stardom?
It's okay. If it's as hilarious as you say it is, it gives me something to look forward to.Papercuts said:
I'm getting sick of literally everybody I walk by saying "THAT'S THAT DIRTY COP, HUH? SHAME, SHAME ON HIM!" anyway.
Meus Renaissance
Member
funkystudent said:
I don't think there is one
What's cruel is that a two of the Vice street crimes actually start out with investigation bits, which got me excited.Papercuts said:
Until, of course, 5 seconds later, you find the one spot that immediately pans to where the perp is at and then you start chasing after them.
TDLink
Member
StuBurns said:
While the context is different i'm not entirely convinced that having
origami cranes is -not- a reference to that film either in Heavy Rain or LA Noire.
origami cranes
Ridley327 said:
The one I investigated led me to a blood trail behind a dumpster...where I then had to shoot someone in the face. Yeah...
tiff said:
That would be hilarious. Just get the bare minimum evidence, mess up all the interrogations, move on anyway. I'm really shocked that the actual story progression doesn't take the case performance into account at all.
Yeah, that was also annoying to me. Especially while I was at the first burned down house, the fireman there kept saying that right to my face.
tiff said:
I liked the one in the golden butterfly when they're talking about the pedophile that stays around the school, it shows him creeping beside a tree and then they just say "THERE HE IS". That one was funny too though, out of completely nowhere.
Meus Renaissance
Member
tiff said:
That happens in every Desk. I seem to recall the one with the
Necrophiliac, and then of course the one in Arson who got off watching fires, and then the random voyeur at the High School
Papercuts said:
If you mess up the interrogations, it restarts that interrogation scene. And you need to come across certain clues e.g. that reveal an address. If you don't find it, you cannot progress in the game at all much less get to an interrogation
Sounds like an idea for an LP to me!Papercuts said:
Haha, that's what made me sick of it. In my doing the rounds I must have heard the same line 50 times.Papercuts said:
Huh? I know I've missed every question on some interrogations and it let me move on anyway. Will it make you restart if you, say, mess up the question that will get an address out of the suspect?Meus Renaissance said:
The only time I've had an interrogation "restart" on me was on the tutorial one. Afterwards, game hasn't given a single fuck if I've blown every question. Speaking of, the questioning system they have in this game is fucking god awful. Why can't you realistically follow a line of questioning? No, I have to go through all these tidy questions the game has prepared for me! Ask a question, get an answer, move to the next bullet point! Such fucking horribleness, the more I think about this game the more I dislike it.
In this case, I kind of agree. It's beautifully rendered and recreated, but it's such a boring and uninteresting city at the same time.
BTW, what the fuck happened to the narrator at the beginning of the game? Dude disappeared.
Y2Kev said:
In this case, I kind of agree. It's beautifully rendered and recreated, but it's such a boring and uninteresting city at the same time.
BTW, what the fuck happened to the narrator at the beginning of the game? Dude disappeared.
Yeah, I don't think it resets beyond the tutorial one.
There was one part where a bartender tells you about a sailor and some other guy that were trying to get with a girl. If you do the things right you know the guys name and that he's at the bar right now, after you're done you go to talk to him and he bolts and makes you chase him. If you completely screw the interrogation up you don't know his name or anything about him, your partner just says that if the bartender won't help he'll ask the people in the bar, announces the LAPD is there to question people and the random guy you don't know anything about bolts and you chase him.
The game won't just leave you in a dead end, it has to make you progress somehow. And because it doesn't consider the actual case outcomes, you'll still become Cole Phelps The Super Cop. There was a few cases where I WAS in a dead end and instead it makes you reinvestigate the crime scene or something to find specific evidence to move forward again.
There was one part where a bartender tells you about a sailor and some other guy that were trying to get with a girl. If you do the things right you know the guys name and that he's at the bar right now, after you're done you go to talk to him and he bolts and makes you chase him. If you completely screw the interrogation up you don't know his name or anything about him, your partner just says that if the bartender won't help he'll ask the people in the bar, announces the LAPD is there to question people and the random guy you don't know anything about bolts and you chase him.
The game won't just leave you in a dead end, it has to make you progress somehow. And because it doesn't consider the actual case outcomes, you'll still become Cole Phelps The Super Cop. There was a few cases where I WAS in a dead end and instead it makes you reinvestigate the crime scene or something to find specific evidence to move forward again.
Amory
Member
Really like that this isn't a GTA clone. It's a very, very different game from what I was expecting, and that's refreshing. Worst part about the game is that crashing into things can affect your rating at the end. I understand not hitting people, playing as a cop, obviously that has to affect a performance rating. Too many of the cases have car chases, though, and it's almost impossible to avoid every single obstacle in the environment while still trying to keep up with the bad guy.
Plus I really like the driving in the game, it feels smooth and I like to explore the city and complete the occasional street crime. But I'm so sure I'll lose case credit by getting into accidents that I usually just let my partner drive to the different locations.
Plus I really like the driving in the game, it feels smooth and I like to explore the city and complete the occasional street crime. But I'm so sure I'll lose case credit by getting into accidents that I usually just let my partner drive to the different locations.