benjipwns
Banned
Blog update looking behind the scenes at Viaduct: http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2754
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Team Fortress 2 Official PC Thread. SO. WORTH. IT.
- Thread starter saelz8
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Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
I hope there are some more class-changing updates soon.
Even with Potatomasher and Javaman and the other Gaffers on there, it is starting to get a bit boring. I don't like how the KOTH maps are set up and I especially don't like all the lag and choppiness I get when I play them.
Even with Potatomasher and Javaman and the other Gaffers on there, it is starting to get a bit boring. I don't like how the KOTH maps are set up and I especially don't like all the lag and choppiness I get when I play them.
I have to respectifully disagree. Viaduct is the epitome of KOTH with a good mix of tactics and deathmatch, and a good use for every single class. Nucleus and Sawmill then take things in opposite directions with Viaduct as their starting point.firex said:
Nucleus I'll agree with; thanks to Snipers TF2 is almost impossible with a lot of open space, so much of the fighting is indoors trying to keep their effectiveness down. It is, however, too easy to get to the opponent's spawn. Those two points make it very deathmatchy with touches of spawn camping. There is just no good middle ground of open areas with cover from snipers.
Sawmill, on the other hand, goes in the opposite direction, requiring more tactics and coordination, and goes back to giving every class a diverse and fun use. I'd say it's better than Viaduct in some respects, as Engineers get more sentry placement freedom, but there isn't anywhere they can put it that becomes too overpowering. Scouts also are more effective here than on the other two maps (to my Medic'ing bane).
To conclude, Viaduct is awesome and straightforward, with the set of buildings right before spawn really helping to prevent spawn camping. Sawmill is less straight forward, but allows for a different, possibly more diverse, range of tactics. Playing Nucleus on both Arena and KOTH can make me rage against Snipers unless I hide and partially spawn camp the whole match. And I hate Snipers, especially on all three of these, but they can be harder to fight back from halfway across the map on Nucleus, plus Viaduct and Sawmill tend to get more coordination against them.
Kuro Madoushi said:
I never thought I'd see the day, but I'm starting to get bored with the game as well. KOTH are more of an annoyance for me and the last couple of cp/cart maps have been really messed up balance wise. They sometimes fix the balancing issues, but I'm beginning to feel like I've played the game out.
Javaman said:
You've played a whole lot more hours than I have, so it's possible you're just done. But I had a stretch where I basically ignored the game for 6-9 months and thought I was done, but I've been playing it with decent regularity since spring. And enjoying the game as much as I ever did. So it's possible you'll regain that special feeling at some point in the future even if you do walk away for a while.
firex said:
Snipers and Engineers? If there's just Snipers, you have to rush in bunny hopping with Soldiers and Demos. You'll force them out of their perch and push out anyone who's trying to give them forward cover. Just Engineers is even easier to take out, your only problem is less space to work with while the rest of their team is barreling, but a pair of Soldiers/Demos firing on one Sentry from a distance can take it out easy, and quickly stop and give a one-two explosive punch to anything coming around the corner. If you meet Pyros with reflection abilities, you got Heavies, and Pyros of your own help defend against their stickies and rockets.
I've faced teams with 3 Engies and 3 Snipers, but never both at once, and my team has come up on top, usually. And considering the sight lines in Viaduct and the sight lines in Sawmill, I don't see how you could've experienced all that on one and not the other.
You need to be vigilant. The only time two or three Engineers should ever be set up is when the rest of their team successfully managed a full wipe on your team, in which case they're doing pretty damn good already.
Edit: Class stacking in general can be a high annoyance. It doesn't make the map garbage, it just means you need to change server.
Visualante
Member
Visualante
Member
http://www.mediafire.com/?djrg9xnnynk if anyone wants to give me some feedback. WIP, pre-alpha etc etc. Just after feedback on the layout.
2 of each out of 12 players is pretty bad on viaduct. It's worse on that map mostly because of easier sniper spots and there's like, no really good safe spot to try and cap the point. So when a team rushes at the start, if their 8 non-snipers/engineers come out on top, the other team loses unless they build ubers. There is no real other strategy for it because the sentries will be placed in a spot where they will only hit you if you try to take the point, and the snipers cover everything else.Proven said:
edit: and I don't believe 2 of a class is stacking, which is why viaduct is garbage. It just becomes worse when it's like 3 engineers/2 snipers or any kind of heavy combo of the two. Sawmill can be a problem with a bunch of engineers set up, but it has less safe spots to turtle and wall in the other team. Nucleus is just annoying because there are too many cheap sentry spots, so it encourages engineer stacking. I don't even mind all the easy sniper pickings in the middle since there's not a lot of safe areas for a sniper to sit and kill people on that map, but viaduct is so bad when that happens because there's no way to really ninja cap the point or anything, so your only real recourse is some way to take out snipers (I just said spy rush because that's probably the easiest way) and uber or way more coordination for the sentries than is necessary. It'd be ok if they had a little bit of crouch cover over the point or something, but it is so frustrating having an infinite death trap set up around the corner that will kill your team if they try and cap the point.
double secret edit: I think KOTH mode is garbage anyway though. It's a better way to play arena maps than arena mode, but I would be happier if they just stuck to CTF, CP push, attack/defend CP, PL and PLR modes instead. I just don't like these new modes. Need to find a server that does those 5 map types only or something.
jaundicejuice
Member
While it's not an anything I was actually aiming for, I just like playing as a Pyro, I'm roughly eight thousand fire damage away from getting Pyromancer. Tonight I finally managed to reflect and kill a soldier with a crit rocket to earn Hotshot so once I get Pyromancer I'll just have two Pyro Achievements left to get. Clear Cutter and Got A Light.
firex said:
Woah, woah, woah? Only 2-3 of each? I'm sorry, but you're either on a crap team or need to practice edging more. There are only two semi-safe spots for Snipers/Engineers on either side of the map, and both are in a perfect position for edging or long range explosives. I know this because I see demos and heavies jumping the lower fave sentry spot while I've shot rockets at Snipers and Sentries on the high rise.
The advantage of predictable spots is that you already know where to check and fire at before passing.
KOTH is like a mini CP push, made in a way so that speed isn't the only defining factor so more defensive classes have a role in it. That's the main reason why I love it. And just like in CP push, you have to knock off all of your opponents BEFORE you can cap the point, the only exception being the initial battle.
And unfortunately, KOTH has already shown that it isn't the best way to have an Arena map played. Bad Arena maps make better KOTH maps, and bad KOTH maps make better Arena maps. Good Arena maps have lots of cover and/or ways to sneak around, but are made for lack of respawns so are very small (which happens makes it easy to get to opponents spawn). A good KOTH map has more space to move around in, and the mid points are designed in much of the same way mid-points are designed on CP push maps; open point, and lack of cover, forcing you to completely take out your opponents in order for a safe capture. We've already demonstrated this by agreeing that Nucleus is ok for Arena but terrible for KOTH. Viaduct reminds me so much of midpoints in CP push maps like Yukon, and Granary. I've also noticed that in those maps that if someone can get a sentry up, it's devastating, but in a predictable position, and Snipers are just as annoying, but have few places to set up.
This kind of bullshit is why TF2's community sucks ass ("I'm having a problem with this map because of the way it's laid out" gets a response of "LOLOL L2PLAY NUB MY KProven said:
IS AWESOME" and this fun game with cartoon characters that are full of silly phrases is ruined with Counter-Strike masturbatory fantasies), but anyway, no, it's just a bad map because whoever takes it first sets it up so it's practically a killzone for the other team to walk into. It's too easy to garrison each side so you either get shot at by sentries when you try to cap the point, or shot at by sentries when you try to kill the snipers if you aren't able to take them out at range (you know, where snipers are best) and I just find it to be a poorly designed map precisely because it is as badly in favor of one team as hoodoo or dustbowl, but it merely favors whoever gets set up first instead of whoever's on defense.Nucleus sucks because it's too easy to spawn camp and there are some annoying sentry locations that can snipe at anyone who tries to take over the point. They aren't totally safe spots so they're not terrible, but it's either an annoying oversight or meant to be there so engineers don't build up a defensive choke point. But KOTH mode is awful if only because of those 2 maps. Maybe later they will add more maps that are more fun to play and tougher for one side to camp on. But when you run into sentry farms around the corner on viaduct and the other side has snipers up on the catwalks to hit anyone who tries to go around, it's annoying because any kind of push requires an uber or for the attacking player to be way faster and better than the sniper, or a good spy, and this game has too many counters for spies/not enough good spies.
tl;dr version all the new maps in this update suck except Sawmill (solely because of people hitting the blades), arena mode sucks, KOTH mode sucks, Valve will never top Goldrush and Badwater for official maps.
firex said:This kind of bullshit is why TF2's community sucks ass ("I'm having a problem with this map because of the way it's laid out" gets a response of "LOLOL L2PLAY NUB MY K
Nucleus sucks because it's too easy to spawn camp and there are some annoying sentry locations that can snipe at anyone who tries to take over the point. They aren't totally safe spots so they're not terrible, but it's either an annoying oversight or meant to be there so engineers don't build up a defensive choke point. But KOTH mode is awful if only because of those 2 maps. Maybe later they will add more maps that are more fun to play and tougher for one side to camp on. But when you run into sentry farms around the corner on viaduct and the other side has snipers up on the catwalks to hit anyone who tries to go around, it's annoying because any kind of push requires an uber or for the attacking player to be way faster and better than the sniper, or a good spy, and this game has too many counters for spies/not enough good spies.
tl;dr version all the new maps in this update suck except Sawmill (solely because of people hitting the blades), arena mode sucks, KOTH mode sucks, Valve will never top Goldrush and Badwater for official maps.
I'm from the 360 myself, despite most of the PC community, but prefaced "Sorry" in that response specifically because I knew I would get a response like this from you.
Edit: Serious answer, yes, it's hard to push through those two sides, but that's what has to be done. You have to push through, and you need to do it together. I suck at edging myself, so I usually do things that help my teammates (random pubbers) to do it, and we eventually break through. Either I'm medic building uber, Pyro deflecting projectiles and people rounding the corner, Engineer specifically to get a Dispenser up to help keep people alive, or Soldier firing at the Sniper nest to keep them busy while we're busting Sentries, but you have to keep working at it. Attack is stronger than defense in this game, but you have to push and you have to push hard and you have to push quick or else they'll get a defense that's too large to deal with.
I'm sorry that KOTH sucks for you, but you have to admit that the maps can't be so horrible if there are people that love them, competitive and non-competitive alike. Maybe we should just play together some time.
Unless you play Sniper though. I still hate Snipers.
Proven said:
I agree wholeheartedly. I've had great fun on Viaduct with nearly every class. I feel its a simple, but smart map that has a little something for everyone. For example, you have the recessed areas around the point and the hills for Engineers. You've got the back catwalks for Snipers, the shed for Spy cloaking/disguising and some well-placed obstacles and corners for Pyros to ambush from.
I especially love playing it as a Spy (my current class of choice and life-encompassing addiction). I have devised certain routes through the map that work so well for getting behind enemy lines and spying effectively.
I also love the colours and atmosphere of Viaduct. You really feel like you're battling it out in a snowy mountain recluse. This map is definitely a new favorite and a welcome distraction from my Payload obsession.
VaLiancY said:
They broke it with that one update. And then they fixed it a couple days later. But I agree in that I'm not sure it's totally fixed. I've had some really screwed up rocket jumps even with just a medic following me. The type of "smooth" moves that, if they weren't familiar with me, would have sent them running to find anyone else.
1-D_FTW said:
I thought it was my mouse at first (which it's part of the problem due to my excessive clicking in WoW has finally gotten to it) but when it does work, the jump doesn't feel good at all. Its been killing me (literally) when I'm trying to escape from ubers and pyros.
nah, KOTH is just a fail mode like Arena, but on a different scale. it is awful and not fun while CP/CTF/PL all are in their various forms. Both modes are like the exact opposite of what the rest of the game is about which is moving forward and taking areas/defending them. but to say "get a better team" is just stupid because team stacking ruins any map, but it is so much more obvious how badly it ruins viasuck and nucleus. It's not even about the winning as it is that KOTH mode feels cheap and Arena mode is retarded by design. I really hate whoever at Valve decided to come up with those modes because they take away from making good maps for good modes.
firex said:
I have to disagree with this though. I find better teamwork more often when I play KOTH and Arena than when I play the other game types, PL being a close second, or at least above Arena. CP and CTF take enough coordination that just having a smart medic and a few good players isn't enough, which is what annoys me about them endlessly. What I mean is that I love it when we get great teamwork going, but most people don't stick together enough and don't wait for each other, screwing up everything. I end up having the most luck playing in such a way to keep everyone together or at least alive, rather than concentrating on the objective itself. I have far fewer CP and CTF matches that aren't a total steamroll as I do with KOTH, PL, and Arena, in that order.
Edit: Oh yeah, I haven't posted in many steam threads. If anyone wants to look me up I'm using the same name (not ID) with the same avatar as on GAF, so just do a search for "Proven".
CP/CTF/PL modes are fun for me because most of the classes are useful on all 3 modes (maybe not scouts on PL) while in arena/KOTH it seriously feels like maybe half to 2/3 of the classes are useful. Even though I don't really play them that much, it just feels like scout in particular is pretty crappy on KOTH mode, because anybody can get to the point quickly, so that just makes them good for skipping around the small maps and picking off people.
I guess the other problem I have is KOTH really, really doesn't feel fun with 12+ people per side to me, because the maps are so small. It's like a constant war zone at best, and kind of feels more like it's a corridor shooter at worst. I guess on a smaller server like a 16 player server or even a 12 player server, it'd be better. But the constant tension/action on a normal 24 player server is too chaotic in those claustrophobic maps.
I just dislike Arena because it is way too competitive, completely not worth playing as pyro/spy/engineer (the 3 classes I play the most), and kind of like playing sudden death over and over again. If I wanted to do that, I'd just play hydro.
I guess the other problem I have is KOTH really, really doesn't feel fun with 12+ people per side to me, because the maps are so small. It's like a constant war zone at best, and kind of feels more like it's a corridor shooter at worst. I guess on a smaller server like a 16 player server or even a 12 player server, it'd be better. But the constant tension/action on a normal 24 player server is too chaotic in those claustrophobic maps.
I just dislike Arena because it is way too competitive, completely not worth playing as pyro/spy/engineer (the 3 classes I play the most), and kind of like playing sudden death over and over again. If I wanted to do that, I'd just play hydro.
firex said:
Wow, this alone is where we're having a problem. I feel completely the opposite, with all the classes finding uses in KOTH and Arena but less so in CP/CTF (let's exclude Payload from this argument as something wonderful that everyone loves anyway).
But then, I see my problem on CP/CTF maps being that too many people don't go Soldier/Demo/Heavy/Pyro/Medic/Especially Medic and are therefore incompetent at achieving objectives. My favorite classes are Pyro, Medic, and Engineer, all three being classes that take more thinking that reflexes to survive and can help a team get it's job done easier (the Pyro being able to put out fires, reflect explosives, airblast away Spies who are trying to suicide for your Sentry/Medic/Heavy, scare away Scouts from your Medic, and use his secondary to either disarm sticky traps so your Soldiers don't have to switch weapons, or apply extra fire pressure), but lately I've been playing almost exclusively Soldier and Medic and cheering on people to change classes in order to get the job done(lead by example). Out of a 12 man team, Spies, Snipers, and Engineers can only take up up to 4 slots combined or else your team is left hamstrung against the others, which makes me feel like these classes aren't of enough use (and my hatred of insta-kill abilities makes me dislike Spies and Snipers already). Plus, this deluge of specialty classes being stacked makes others want to go to them in order to get killed less, and especially kills our Heavy population.
Reading over all of that, basically I find my problem in the population rather than the gametype, as they ruin the more nuanced gametypes for me (CPush and CTF) while the more simplified ones (KOTH and Arena) allow me to quickly and easily rally people into working together, because losses can come a lot quicker without turtling saving the day. These days I only have fun on CPush and CTF when I join with some friends or can quickly find some other group of people (probably friends themselves) working together and staying close with them.
Which classes in particular are you having a problem with seeing viable? For Spy, it seems all problems with warzones and spam is solved with Dead Ringer and constantly sticking near ammo boxes. For Engineer, I'm with you on that one, but I have an easier time on KOTH and Arena believe it or not (although I have to play little less offensively since my aim isn't anywhere near the best), but I might just find a thrill in trying to figure out Engineer on those maps, since strategies and videos for them are very few and far between. For Pyro, I've pretty much already given you everything I can give to help with that, and even I find them underpowered in the heat of battle; without a movement ability of their own they're really just defensive until an uber is built, as it's too hard to impossible to flank much of the time. And I hate Snipers.
It's possible that I've fallen right into your despair as well and just managed to cope by learning Soldier, which I suddenly feel would be a shame.
I just find that pyro is annoying in arena because sniper/soldier/demo can kill someone from far away, scout can ambush just as well (actually, probably better since he's more mobile) and none of those classes have to get into close range so it makes any tactical decisions with pyro frustrating compared to simply switching classes.
Spy is just basically the simple issue that cloaking and stabbing someone in arena is tougher to do because with no real set objective besides fragging the other team or capping the point, and smaller team sizes, your viable disguise options and chances to blend in are reduced, and cloak->sneak->stab is also pretty heavily reduced aside from trying to get first strike on the other team's sniper. And obviously if you survive late in the round, they know who's alive/dead on each team so disguising is pretty much pointless, which means lots of cloak abuse and ambassador headshots are the way to go.
Engineer is basically the same deal as pyro in arena, except replace "unable to ambush" with "sentry acts more as a deterrent than real offense." In KOTH I just hate how the core engineer problem (sentries are almost useless alone, and overpowered in farms) becomes both way more obvious and way more exploitable.
In CP/CTF, I think Engineer's value is pretty obvious - teleports, sentries to defend choke points. Spy/pyro are both stronger in CP due to different stuff - spy capping points (I love to ninja cap the final point on well) and pyro is excellent at ambushing and clearing out a point against pretty much anyone. In CTF, spy is perfect for the anti-sniper role and also for either solo busting up an engineer's setup in the intel, or helping bust up an engineer's setup. Pyro makes a great runner and also a very strong defender in that mode, as well.
In KOTH I think pyro is ok but not great, but spy is just frustrating to play to the point that it might as well be disabled for that mode, unless you wanna go stab some snipers.
This isn't really about tips because there's the tf2 wiki for that (which I need to read again for more spy tips), and I have every pyro achievement but pyromancer (got bored of the game not long after heavy update and got reinterested around the scout update), so I know how to play pyro and just have to learn new maps, but the whole reason I dislike KOTH/Arena is all the other modes have a sense of progression to the maps. Arena feels entirely counter-productive because it's just about killing the other team, and KOTH is battle over one point over and over again so it feels boring running to the same area repeatedly. Win or lose, it just feels boring because the maps are small and it's just not as fun.
Maybe KOTH with bigger maps would be more fun, so it reduces the spawn camping and general camping feel I get from the mode.
Spy is just basically the simple issue that cloaking and stabbing someone in arena is tougher to do because with no real set objective besides fragging the other team or capping the point, and smaller team sizes, your viable disguise options and chances to blend in are reduced, and cloak->sneak->stab is also pretty heavily reduced aside from trying to get first strike on the other team's sniper. And obviously if you survive late in the round, they know who's alive/dead on each team so disguising is pretty much pointless, which means lots of cloak abuse and ambassador headshots are the way to go.
Engineer is basically the same deal as pyro in arena, except replace "unable to ambush" with "sentry acts more as a deterrent than real offense." In KOTH I just hate how the core engineer problem (sentries are almost useless alone, and overpowered in farms) becomes both way more obvious and way more exploitable.
In CP/CTF, I think Engineer's value is pretty obvious - teleports, sentries to defend choke points. Spy/pyro are both stronger in CP due to different stuff - spy capping points (I love to ninja cap the final point on well) and pyro is excellent at ambushing and clearing out a point against pretty much anyone. In CTF, spy is perfect for the anti-sniper role and also for either solo busting up an engineer's setup in the intel, or helping bust up an engineer's setup. Pyro makes a great runner and also a very strong defender in that mode, as well.
In KOTH I think pyro is ok but not great, but spy is just frustrating to play to the point that it might as well be disabled for that mode, unless you wanna go stab some snipers.
This isn't really about tips because there's the tf2 wiki for that (which I need to read again for more spy tips), and I have every pyro achievement but pyromancer (got bored of the game not long after heavy update and got reinterested around the scout update), so I know how to play pyro and just have to learn new maps, but the whole reason I dislike KOTH/Arena is all the other modes have a sense of progression to the maps. Arena feels entirely counter-productive because it's just about killing the other team, and KOTH is battle over one point over and over again so it feels boring running to the same area repeatedly. Win or lose, it just feels boring because the maps are small and it's just not as fun.
Maybe KOTH with bigger maps would be more fun, so it reduces the spawn camping and general camping feel I get from the mode.
Javaman said:
Pretty sure it's four. I remember someone bringing it up in this thread a long time ago. And although my memory is a little hazy, four was sticking in my head.
Did a google search and came across a hit where it was mentioned four was the max limit on carts. So I think it's fair to assume four is still the limit on CPs.
Maybe it was six:lol
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...f2+cap+speed+limits&cd=22&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
That's where I got the 4 player max for the cart levels.
This is the type of information Valve should really post on the load screens. Do I really need to see that a Soldier should aim at people's feet?
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...f2+cap+speed+limits&cd=22&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
That's where I got the 4 player max for the cart levels.
This is the type of information Valve should really post on the load screens. Do I really need to see that a Soldier should aim at people's feet?
I actually find that scouts are worthless on almost any attacking side, whether that's CTF, CP, or Payload. The scout's main weakness are sentries, which are abundant on defense. Not to mention that scouts are supposed to be mobile because of their low health, so when they stay in one area, they're dead. I know Valve tried to fix this with Bonk, but if a sentry guarding the point doesn't kill him, one of the defenders will catch him with his reduced speed.
Love him on defense though.
Love him on defense though.
Confidence Man
Member
Bonk is useless. I've never once seen it used effectively. The other team usually just stands in front of the scout to hold him up until it wears off, and it wears off too quickly to boot.
Some kind of decoy that you throw to make the sentry shoot at it would've been better.
Some kind of decoy that you throw to make the sentry shoot at it would've been better.
I suppose nothing more can be done about tips.
I did forget to mention that I wouldn't blame Valve about the maps. Valve's job is to bring something new to their game, which is why they put out maps for the newer modes while trying to create as many new game types as possible. They want the community to deal with making more maps for modes that they enjoy specifically, which is one of the reasons I was glad about CP_Yukon's inclusion as a community map this past update.
As for Scout, Bonk is more of a teamwork weapon than something for getting past sentries. I've had successful Bonk and bash strategies work much of the time. It's annoying to hear people complain about it all of the time, when either they're not giving it a chance, or using it in the wrong ways. Yes, it's situational, but it helps a lot more than you think.
Second, Scout is a low health class. So no, Scouts can't run right up to a fight and own the place. They harass and assassinate. They're an offensive support class just like Pyro and Sniper. Your weapons, despite being guns, are most powerful at close range, so when you can't advance, your job is to scout around for any trouble and help to defend key members of your team. When you do have free reign, you just don't run into a bunch of people who can blow you up into little bits. Instead you sneak up and assassinate the Medic. If that's too dangerous, you run in and out to hassle (which is why the FAN isn't a horrible weapon; it's damage output is perfect for this) or you stay at long distance and pettle with pistol shots if there are too many.
This is another thing that annoys me about people's complaints. Just like half of the other classes, Scouts rarely win games on their own. You still need Soldiers/Demomen/Medics at the very least. More than anything else, those three win games. All other classes gain their usefulness from either supporting them (Engineers, Snipers, Spies), being supported by them (Heavies), or being able to run in and flank without being focused on thanks to them (Scouts, Pyros, Spies).
I did forget to mention that I wouldn't blame Valve about the maps. Valve's job is to bring something new to their game, which is why they put out maps for the newer modes while trying to create as many new game types as possible. They want the community to deal with making more maps for modes that they enjoy specifically, which is one of the reasons I was glad about CP_Yukon's inclusion as a community map this past update.
As for Scout, Bonk is more of a teamwork weapon than something for getting past sentries. I've had successful Bonk and bash strategies work much of the time. It's annoying to hear people complain about it all of the time, when either they're not giving it a chance, or using it in the wrong ways. Yes, it's situational, but it helps a lot more than you think.
Second, Scout is a low health class. So no, Scouts can't run right up to a fight and own the place. They harass and assassinate. They're an offensive support class just like Pyro and Sniper. Your weapons, despite being guns, are most powerful at close range, so when you can't advance, your job is to scout around for any trouble and help to defend key members of your team. When you do have free reign, you just don't run into a bunch of people who can blow you up into little bits. Instead you sneak up and assassinate the Medic. If that's too dangerous, you run in and out to hassle (which is why the FAN isn't a horrible weapon; it's damage output is perfect for this) or you stay at long distance and pettle with pistol shots if there are too many.
This is another thing that annoys me about people's complaints. Just like half of the other classes, Scouts rarely win games on their own. You still need Soldiers/Demomen/Medics at the very least. More than anything else, those three win games. All other classes gain their usefulness from either supporting them (Engineers, Snipers, Spies), being supported by them (Heavies), or being able to run in and flank without being focused on thanks to them (Scouts, Pyros, Spies).
Confidence Man said:
I've seen it used effectively exactly once. Blizzard ran out at a sentry with Bonk activated, diverting it's bullets and shit away from me, a demoman, to take it out before his Bonk deactivated. Of course there was literally no one from the other team around, and if there had been I'm sure it wouldn't have gone so smoothly.
And it would be cool if you could use the scout's baseball as a sentry decoy. Seems really obvious, actually.
MisterAnderson
Member
I am SO FUCKING FED UP with TF2 not saving my stats. Two nights in a row I surpass my point records for Demoman and Engineer. After the server switches maps, I SEE with my own fucking eyes the status report updated with the new records. Then the next day when I log on steam and play TF2, the fucking stats are reverted back. This is pissing me so the fuck off because part of makes TF2 fun for me is trying to break my records, but wtf is the point if it won't even save it? Am I doing something wrong?
MisterAnderson said:
No, it's broke and has been for a long time. I have seen my stats reverted after: Leaving before I die even though the round was over/map changes, crashing to desktop, and not closing steam before relaunching TF2.
MisterAnderson
Member
Iadien said:
Do you have to die before a map change/round change for the stats to stick or something? Like what if you have your best round, but your team wins. Should I kill myself since those stats are based around how much "x" you do in 1 life? I assumed it counted winning around as the end of your life so never thought twice about this.
Azure Dream
Member
h4k said:
Find yourself an idle server, then. I've been playing steadily since the update hit and I've not "found" a single one. Plenty of weapons, but no hats.
The amazing thing is the people who think idlers sit there and stare at the screen while they do it. The arguments when that first started were just so amazing. :lol
MisterAnderson
Member
I would idle but I'm anal about my stats accurately representing the time I play each class since I have always liked that feature. Unfortunately the game hasn't saved my stats in like a week and a half so maybe I shouldn't worry about it anymore.
Proven said:
Ok, I agree that will work in a mode like CTF, where alot of people are in the middle, away from their sentries. But in modes with specific teams on defense (like Dustbowl or Payload) the defenders stay behind their sentries like it's the Alamo, using long range weapons to pick others off. They do occasionally leave, but only if we're being pushed back, or they're ubering in to destroy our teleporter and sentry.
I just think scouts are more useful on KOTH, push maps, and defense. Pretty much anything where large sentry nests aren't guarding the objective (which Viaduct sometimes does, but only if you let it). CTF is an exception.
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