-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Team Fortress 2 |OT3| - Murder-based Hat Simulator
- Thread starter Yeef
- Start date
Wolf Akela
Member
Though if they really want to promote the campy nature of CnD, I think it'd be great if they cut down the cloak/decloak time, then maybe raise the volume a bit.
I fiddled around with our server's cvars back then and cut the cloak/decloak time to zero and we had a fun time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbnuQzKZdSQ
I fiddled around with our server's cvars back then and cut the cloak/decloak time to zero and we had a fun time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbnuQzKZdSQ
A buff is a core class change. Giving the pyro airblasts was a buff. Increasing heavy's movement speed while spun up was a buff. The pyro (or rather, the flamethrower) needs buffs. new unlocks are just like band-aids. Cool, powerful band-aids are still band-aids.Blizzard said:If it's a good option that he didn't have before, it's a buff. Why are you complaining about options? Do you hate people in masks?
Bluth54 said:
ArtistDude88
Member
Woo! Got another hat on my other idler! I guess the key to getting hats is quitting TF2 for a while.
Thanks for the Magnificent Mongolian, Yeef!
Thanks for the Magnificent Mongolian, Yeef!
Remotely loading the nav file wouldn't work. The source engine just looks for a nav file thta matches the map name in the map directory when it loads the map. That's why the server crashed a few nights ago. I had uploaded a bunch of nav files, but they were incomplete, so once it changed to one of those maps it'd fail to load the nav file and then not load the map.
The problem isn't with actually loading the nav file, it's with uploading it. Their servers seem to detect nav files and cancel the transfer halfway through which leaves a corrupted file. Changing the extension and the filename before uploading doesn't work.
I'm sure I could find a way around it if I really wanted to, but it's not a huge deal right now though. My main concern is that if raid mode and specialty mode end up using a lot of bots then we may have to switch servers yet again if they don't allow it.
The problem isn't with actually loading the nav file, it's with uploading it. Their servers seem to detect nav files and cancel the transfer halfway through which leaves a corrupted file. Changing the extension and the filename before uploading doesn't work.
I'm sure I could find a way around it if I really wanted to, but it's not a huge deal right now though. My main concern is that if raid mode and specialty mode end up using a lot of bots then we may have to switch servers yet again if they don't allow it.
CornBurrito
Member
lol at that Enforcer "nerf."
They basically are telling you to only use it with the Dead Ringer.
And Pyro with the reserve shooter? So much potential.
And multiple loadouts? FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They basically are telling you to only use it with the Dead Ringer.
And Pyro with the reserve shooter? So much potential.
And multiple loadouts? FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This seems like an arbitrary definition that Yeef made up. How can I rephrase this so you can understand:Yeef said:
They might give the pyro a new weapon! This might help the pyro become better for once, instead of worse like usually happens with patches! Don't you want the pyro to have the ability to do better?
I don't know how to explain.
Both you and another guy seem to not want the pyro to have a weapon because it would be overpowered. Do you not consider the pyro underpowered? What is the source of your hate, Skywalker? Do you perhaps work for Valve?*seethes with pyro rage*
Clearly Yeef must think highly of the game's balance, since allowing the Pyro to shoot his shotgun 4 frames sooner, along with adding the ability to do 50% more damage to people in the air, with only the totally neglectable change of loosing half your clip, changes the pyro from under powered to over powered.
I agree with Yeef, the only issue is that Valve has pretty much given up on buffs and have made the Pyro class a combination of powerful mix and match weapons.
For example, the Degreaser was practically a straight upgrade. If they wanted to really differentiate it from the flamethrower, the stats should be:
Flamethrower
+25% airblast cost (so it's now back to 25 ammo per airblast)
Degreaser
-10% damage
-25% or maybe even -50% afterburn damage.
That would have solidified its role as an airblast machine that is also designed for quickswitch shenanigans. Or even swap the airblast cost with the regular flamethrower (make it 25) so you know the point of the weapon is switching to your secondary/melee and the regular flamethrower is best for airblasting.
The other issue is that no class has to switch weapons as much as a Pyro. Just about any of us can jump onto a Valve server, pick any other class, and with only the primary weapon and access to right click score much better than you would as a Pyro in the same situation (for the purposes of this argument, the knife, the medigun, and the sticky bomb launcher are considered the primaries, but you could probably score better using only the Enforcer, Blut, and Pipe launcher anyway).
So, the Pyro is now a bag of tricks. Even the demoknight paired with a grenade launcher feels more solid and cohesive to me.
The only other buff they could give the Pyro now would just be a flat buff to his weapon switch. Give him something like +20% faster weapon switch on all weapons and nerf the Degreaser a little bit. Then he'll feel like a bag of tricks character from just vanilla play.
For example, the Degreaser was practically a straight upgrade. If they wanted to really differentiate it from the flamethrower, the stats should be:
Flamethrower
+25% airblast cost (so it's now back to 25 ammo per airblast)
Degreaser
-10% damage
-25% or maybe even -50% afterburn damage.
That would have solidified its role as an airblast machine that is also designed for quickswitch shenanigans. Or even swap the airblast cost with the regular flamethrower (make it 25) so you know the point of the weapon is switching to your secondary/melee and the regular flamethrower is best for airblasting.
The other issue is that no class has to switch weapons as much as a Pyro. Just about any of us can jump onto a Valve server, pick any other class, and with only the primary weapon and access to right click score much better than you would as a Pyro in the same situation (for the purposes of this argument, the knife, the medigun, and the sticky bomb launcher are considered the primaries, but you could probably score better using only the Enforcer, Blut, and Pipe launcher anyway).
So, the Pyro is now a bag of tricks. Even the demoknight paired with a grenade launcher feels more solid and cohesive to me.
The only other buff they could give the Pyro now would just be a flat buff to his weapon switch. Give him something like +20% faster weapon switch on all weapons and nerf the Degreaser a little bit. Then he'll feel like a bag of tricks character from just vanilla play.
CornBurrito
Member
Tenck said:
Yep. And then I switched to Medic. And IIRC we won so it was all good.
UnluckyKate
Member
Widow maker Buff ? YES ! 60 was way to expensive to shoot. It was really requiring some good, precise, and close up shots. 30 seems a bit low but I won't complain: it's stills fires so fast, it still will be eating my metal.
Reserve shooter for Pyros ? interesting...
Enforcer Nerfed ? Ok.
Tomislave nerfed ? Finaly.
Reserve shooter for Pyros ? interesting...
Enforcer Nerfed ? Ok.
Tomislave nerfed ? Finaly.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Widowmaker buff might make it a better complement to Gunslinger Engie than the Frontier Justice. I'm really looking forward to seeing that change come into standard.
CornBurrito
Member
UnluckyKate said:
All they did was give you a greater incentive to only use it with the Dead Ringer. That's hardly a nerf.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Bakphoon said:I need to get my Fancy Dress Uniform BEFORE it leaves beta
It still has a 50% chance of being crafted for 4 refined (which is how I got mine), so that will keep the ceiling from being too high. But things like the Pip Boy, the Spy Masks, Purity Fists, etc., will definitely go up. There's a potential for a little bit of investment there too.
I think you'll see the Polycount hats go up in price too with the multiple loadouts since each class will be able to build a loadout specifically for the set bonus.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
I was wondering why the Fancy Dress Uniform would go up, then "Oh right, 2 misc items". Then I need to get a Whiskered Gentleman to go with the tie. =D
GruntOfAction
Member
Hmm, idlling over night I got a Napper's Respite for the Pyro...But I love the Pyromancer I already have on...what to do...
CornBurrito
Member
(._.) said:
I find people teleport less on the new server. At least it makes life as a spy a bit easier.
But it still has wonky melee lag compensation.
And for whatever reason Pyros can hit me even if I am a few feet away from the end of their flame.
And you're suggesting nerfing the pyro (one weapon) as well. My mind is boggled. Doesn't pyro like, not seem overpowered these days? I thought it was practically a running gag how other classes were buffed or got new items and the pyro typically got left behind? There was the awesome high-jump ability of the detonator in the beta, which promptly produced the really wimpy detonator in the real game. I don't know anyone who thinks that's overpowered, and you certainly can't jump on the badwater point 2 roof with it now.Proven said:
I mean, is the degreaser dominating teams that it needs lower damage? Is the flamethrower airblasting so much, especially on the janky GAF servers, that everyone can't use rockets effectively? =P
is there anyone here willing to help xfer items from my tf2 idle account to my main account? in exchange i could give you all my crates or something or some metal or something once in a while idk. i'd only bug you like once a month. or in return i could do it for your idle account. i just don't like having that sandboxie shit installed on my comp. thanks
donezo
donezo
Cloudius12
Member
If you need it done now, I can help you.Chesskid1 said:is there anyone here willing to help xfer items from my tf2 idle account to my main account? in exchange i could give you all my crates or something or some metal or something once in a while idk. i'd only bug you like once a month. or in return i could do it for your idle account. i just don't like having that sandboxie shit installed on my comp. thanks
All I'm saying is that they're not buffing the Pyro, they're giving him powerful weapons. The problem with powerful weapons is that regardless of playstyle, you're almost forced into picking a certain loadout.
Think about how 90% of people will tell you to use the Axetinguisher exclusively.
Think about how 95% of people recommend the Degreaser.
Think about how many would have told you Pyro is worthless without the Detonator, had the thing been given the same jump height it had while in the beta.
Pyro's secondary was at least a style preference, either flare or hitscan, with the Detonator working as a situational flare.
If you add in the Reserve Shooter, while it would give Pyro's a welcome tool to help with Scouts, coupled with the airblast it would become another weapon that would be standard in most Pyros' arsenals just from the fact that it'd out damage the Flare gun most of the time.
You have to consider the fact that a proper buff to the class would be adding something to their vanilla stats. That's why I suggested just lower the Degreaser's weapon switch speed buff, and then give Pyro's a buff of 20% faster weapon switch on any weapon.
I love the Pyro dearly. He was my number one reason to play TF2, right next to the Medic. But if he's going to be buffed it's going to have to be done properly. I don't want people arguing about any of his shit like everyone does for the Heavy now. He doesn't deserve it just because a bunch of people suck at dealing with fire in their face and the pressure of afterburn, primarily because they couldn't aim, played exclusively Sniper/Spy/bad Scout, or were on a team without a single Medic.
Think about how 90% of people will tell you to use the Axetinguisher exclusively.
Think about how 95% of people recommend the Degreaser.
Think about how many would have told you Pyro is worthless without the Detonator, had the thing been given the same jump height it had while in the beta.
Pyro's secondary was at least a style preference, either flare or hitscan, with the Detonator working as a situational flare.
If you add in the Reserve Shooter, while it would give Pyro's a welcome tool to help with Scouts, coupled with the airblast it would become another weapon that would be standard in most Pyros' arsenals just from the fact that it'd out damage the Flare gun most of the time.
You have to consider the fact that a proper buff to the class would be adding something to their vanilla stats. That's why I suggested just lower the Degreaser's weapon switch speed buff, and then give Pyro's a buff of 20% faster weapon switch on any weapon.
I love the Pyro dearly. He was my number one reason to play TF2, right next to the Medic. But if he's going to be buffed it's going to have to be done properly. I don't want people arguing about any of his shit like everyone does for the Heavy now. He doesn't deserve it just because a bunch of people suck at dealing with fire in their face and the pressure of afterburn, primarily because they couldn't aim, played exclusively Sniper/Spy/bad Scout, or were on a team without a single Medic.
I consider "proper" to be more of an opinion though. The axetinguisher, ubersaw, and equalizer are probably used by the majority of pyros, medics, and soldiers. They help the class out. I guess I don't really have a problem with one weapon being best and the others merely options. I don't know that Valve typically buffs class stats wholesale. They seem to adjust weapons instead.Proven said:
Cloudius12
Member
Send meh a Friend inviteChesskid1 said:is there anyone here willing to help xfer items from my tf2 idle account to my main account? in exchange i could give you all my crates or something or some metal or something once in a while idk. i'd only bug you like once a month. or in return i could do it for your idle account. i just don't like having that sandboxie shit installed on my comp. thanks
still need this, will edit when i find a helper
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudius
XeroSauce
Member
Proven said:
Here's the thing.
With the Shotgun/RS, the Pyro pretty much loses most of his medium-long range capabilities. And even moreso with the RS, at least you can take 10 damage potshots with the shotgun.
The Detonator and Flare Gun are compliments to his short-range power; they provide not only harassment, but a way to deal with Heavies and Snipers at a range, two classes that can destroy the Pyro at their respective ranges. The fire guns are zoning tools and they are extremely effective at what they do.
The shotgun is a general use weapon. It's good is most situations and it compliments the Backburner/FT. The Reserve Shooter compliments the FT/Degreaser, and is really only reliable is close to medium-range. It's not the be all end all weapon for him.
I've seen many many Pyros run around with Maul/Backscratcher/Powerjack and Backburner simply because it works with them. There's a mindset that only a certain loadout is useful for victory, (DG/RS/Axe, or for Heavy, Tomi/Sandvich/GRU) when in reality, it depends on how you play the class and what you know to do in each situation.
Add in the fact that the RS is only three shots and it'd take a meatshot or two to kill a Demo/Soldier, plus Pyro has the SLOWEST shotgun reloading speed of all the classes, and you can see that it's really not as much of a power creep as you think.
XeroSauce
Member
Blizzard said:
Honestly don't even know why that happened.
Comp players, maybe? No idea.Addemdum:
Also remember that the Flare Gun does 90 damage crits on a enemy when they are on fire at ANY RANGE, and the RS with do a maximum of 81 damage close range with mini-crits if all pellets hit, 110 point blank if all pellets hit.
I tested the RS shooter in matches and TR_walkway for way way too long.XeroSauce said:Honestly don't even know why that happened.
Addemdum:
Also remember that the Flare Gun does 90 damage crits on a enemy when they are on fire at ANY RANGE, and the RS with do a maximum of 81 damage close range with mini-crits if all pellets hit, 110 point blank if all pellets hit.
It's a lot better than people give it credit for and fits the Pyro very well at close-closemid range. You can do airblast 90+80 a lot faster than flare.
Pyro is my second most played class (after Scout). The thing is, I'd prefer the game be balanced all around than just having my preferred classes mindlessly buffed without considering how it affects the game as a whole.Blizzard said:This seems like an arbitrary definition that Yeef made up. How can I rephrase this so you can understand:
They might give the pyro a new weapon! This might help the pyro become better for once, instead of worse like usually happens with patches! Don't you want the pyro to have the ability to do better?
I don't know how to explain.
*seethes with pyro rage*
interesting ideas, but I'd go a different direction with it. I'd increase the base flamethrower's damage by 10% (same as the backburner's current stats). Keep the degreaser as it is now, but drop afterburn by 50% instead of 25% and drop the backburner to the current stock flamethrower's damage, but increase the back crit angle to 135 degrees and reduce the airblast cost to 40. This way, the roles of the three are much more clearly defined. Stock is best for flaming, degreaser is best for weapon heckling and backburner is best for flanking and pretending to be a spy.Proven said:
In some ways you and I are very different people. Having all of the weapons balanced with one another is the key feature of doing unlocks right. Otherwise, you get situations like [any other game with unlocks] where new players that only have the stock loadouts are at a huge disadvantage.Blizzard said:
For the record, I'd argue that the equalizer and ubersaw are both overpowered (the equalizer moreso). I think the ubersaw needs to have the powerjack's melee vulnerability. I'm not sure how you'd fix the equalizer without changing it entirely.
Crappy melee is a staple of the source engine. Nothing will change that.Obsessed said:
As for pyros, the flames you see have nothing to do with the actual flame particles.
They also doubled the bonus on the Cladehehahadhaskdajmor charge. So it charges for an extra second instead of half a second.
Yup. Minicrits get ramp up. A closish-range hit will all 10 pellets will do 122 damage. Mid range usually gets you like 80 or so if your aim is decent.XeroSauce said:
EmCeeGramr
Member
Degreaser + Reserve Shooter test on tr_walkway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UGyrWwnBBY
yes YESSSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UGyrWwnBBY
yes YESSSS
Grimm Fandango
Member
ArtistDude88 said:
I think I'm going to quit TF2 for a little bit too, like a week. I'll idle on Monday or Tuesday to increase my made-up odds for a hat.
EmCeeGramr said:
Haha wow.
CornBurrito
Member
Tenck said:
Saharan set is best when nobody has a mic.
divisionbyzorro
Member
EmCeeGramr said:
That last example was silly. Standing anywhere in tr_walkway is like standing in front of a resupply cabinet. He unloaded four straight shots into a heavy using a shotgun that only has 3 shots in the clip.