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[SteveWinwood]

Does the Reserve Shooter and Degreaser bonuses stack? I have to try that, to the beta crafting menu!

Also, valve better fix the quick switch bug before this goes live! I want both multiple loadouts AND the ability to use quick switch.

80% faster weapon switching? Droooooool. Yeah probably doesn't stack

 

[Yeef]

Yeef, do you think you could make a link to the OP with a list of all the custom maps on the server? It'd be great to have something to run to whenever I want to look up something to nominate.

Well, whenever I get around to modifying the map pages on the stats site, it'll have links and a list of all the maps. In the meantime, you can just bookmark tf2.gafserver.com/tf/maps

[Edit] bonuses do stack, but not in a flat manner like that. The reserve shooter would be applied to the already reduced weapon switch time, not the normal time. So it'd be 70.25% faster switch, not 80%.

 

[Tenck]

Who was that Matt spy I saw?

Wont let you overtake me in points as spy!!

I kid I kid. But anyways, nice teamwork.

*Spyfive*

 

[Proven]

Well, whenever I get around to modifying the map pages on the stats site, it'll have links and a list of all the maps. In the meantime, you can just bookmark tf2.gafserver.com/tf/maps

I want to nominate more CTF maps, but I feel like TF2 GAF needs to step up their game...

So for now, I'll just nominate more 5cp maps.

 

[Yeef]

I don't know if I'm just blind, but I can't seem to find the winger in the beta item list. I was hoping it'd get some buiffs, instead it was removed entirely ;(

 

[Drkirby]

Just counted the frames. Holding the fire key down the entire time, with the degreaser, it takes 15 frames to shoot the normal shotgun, but it takes only 11 to shoot the reserve shooter. So, at the moment, they do stack (It isn't 80%, but more like 73%. So it looks like it is first taking the 55% off, then the 15% off of that, which would be 70.25% reduced time there)

So the Reserve Shooter and the Degreaser both get calculated, to make about 70% reduced firing time.

Attendant Pyro Plus Reserve shooter should be fun.

 

[corn_fest]

I don't know if I'm just blind, but I can't seem to find the winger in the beta item list. I was hoping it'd get some buiffs, instead it was removed entirely ;(

?

 

[Yeef]

Just counted the frames. Holding the fire key down the entire time, with the degreaser, it takes 15 frames to shoot the normal shotgun, but it takes only 11 to shot the reserve shooter. So, at the moment, they do stack (It isn't 80%, but more like 73%. So it looks like it is first taking the 15% off, then the 65% off of that, which would be 71% reduced time there)

So the Reserve Shooter and the Degreaser both get calculated, to make 71% reduced firing time.

I already said that and this was already known. There are already other instances in the game where multiple bonuses worked that way:

• Battilion's Backup + any damage vulnerability/resistance
• Milk + Conch

?

I as looking at the Mann. Co. Catalog, where it doesn't seem to be listed, but looking at the crafting screen confirms they haven't done anything to it. i guess i shouldn't be surprised, since they haven't done anythign to the Business either.

Also, as much as I'd enjoy it, I think the Pyro having a reserve shooter is a bad idea. It's like a hitscan flaregun that does 121 damage and doesn't need the enemy to be on fire. Plus it has 3 shots instead of one.

 

[Tenck]

Ugh TF2 keeps crashing.

 

[Proven]

I already said that and this was already known. There are already other instances in the game where multiple bonuses worked that way:

• Battilion's Backup + any damage vulnerability/resistance
• Milk + Conch

Also, as much as I'd enjoy it, I think the Pyro having a reserve shooter is a bad idea. It's like a hitscan flaregun that does 121 damage and doesn't need the enemy to be on fire. Plus it has 3 shots instead of one.

It basically is an upgrade to the Flaregun at close range. At medium to long range, not all of the pellets are going to hit anyway. Thinking about it that way makes me weep for the Flaregun some more.

Pyro vs. Pyro fights stay interesting though.

 

[Drkirby]

I already said that and this was already known. There are already other instances in the game where multiple bonuses worked that way:

• Battilion's Backup + any damage vulnerability/resistance
• Milk + Conch

Also, as much as I'd enjoy it, I think the Pyro having a reserve shooter is a bad idea. It's like a hitscan flaregun that does 121 damage and doesn't need the enemy to be on fire. Plus it has 3 shots instead of one.

Except it is only good point blank, the flaregun is the Pyro's one raged weapon. Shotgun is going to do anything to a target farther away, and a pyro v pyro fight, the normal shotgun would likely beat it out.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Posted yet?

 

[Cloudius12]

Posted yet?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/167/d/4/Brother_can_you_spare_a_health_by_Celestial298.jpg

almost as bad as taking the health from a Medic healing you.

 

[Forkball]

almost as bad as taking the health from a Medic healing you.

Or throwing down a sandvich for a medic and then a scout comes in and eats it up.

Also I got the Dragonborn Helmet as a drop today, my first hat drop since April. I now have three good Heavy hats. I'll wear the samurai hair on normal maps, the wrestling mask on three stage maps (one style per stage) and the Dragonborn for medieval mode.

 

[Tenck]

Anyone know how to defrag the TF2 files? I can't stand TF2 crashing on me every 5 minutes.

 

[Professor Beef]

Posted yet?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/167/d/4/Brother_can_you_spare_a_health_by_Celestial298.jpg[/G][/QUOTE]
I guess the Soldier CAN'T do everything. >:P

 

[Wolf Akela]

Or throwing down a sandvich for a medic and then a scout comes in and eats it up.

Or seeing a Medic die from fire and have his corpse land over a full health kit.

Always depresses me.

 

[Cloudius12]

Anyone know how to defrag the TF2 files? I can't stand TF2 crashing on me every 5 minutes.

Right click Team Fortress 2 in Steam Client > Properties > Local Files Tab > Defragment Cache Files.

You should also verify Integrity of game cache just in case before hand.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

nerfed tomislav
nerfed enforcer
buffed widowmaker
loadout presets
two misc slots
reserve shooter for pyro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

 

[Yeef]

Except it is only good point blank, the flaregun is the Pyro's one raged weapon. Shotgun is going to do anything to a target farther away, and a pyro v pyro fight, the normal shotgun would likely beat it out.

Having used the reserve shooter quite a bit I can tell you this is wrong. At mid range generally 7 or more of your pellets will hit if you aim for center mass. if you're close enough to airblast someone then it's trivial to get most or all of the pellets to hit. If you're out of airblast range you can punish people just for jumping, walking off a ledge or just being on bumpy ground/stairs (which TF2 will think is in the air half the time).

Also, in Pyro vs. Pyro matchups the flamethrower is going to be the deciding factor in how to approach it. Assuming both have the same load out except one with the reserve shooter and one with the shotgun, the reserve shooter one should win. The time between switching is negligible, but it'll only take 2 shots vs the shotgun's 3 shots.

I think the smaller clip ill also be less of a liability for the pyro than it is for the soldier since he doesn't need to worry about reloading his primary weapon.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Playing Medic is very satisfying when your teammates are competent. If I didn't play with stupid people so often on pubs, Medic would be my favorite class.

 

[Professor Beef]

Playing Medic is very satisfying when your teammates are competent. If I didn't play with stupid people so often on pubs, Medic would be my favorite class.

You see the dregs of humanity while playing as Medic. But when you finally see intelligent players, hope arrives.

 

[Pancakes]

Playing Medic is very satisfying when your teammates are competent. If I didn't play with stupid people so often on pubs, Medic would be my favorite class.

Why would you subject yourself to this nightmare?

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Why would you subject yourself to this nightmare?

Because on Offense no one else plays Medic. On Defense I go Engineer since other Engineers build on the last point (WHY). If there's a Medic on offense, I'll go demo since they don't know how to use stickies. I can't ever play Sniper/Spy since there's always like 3 of them in every fucking team.

 

[Tenck]

Because on Offense no one else plays Medic. On Defense I go Engineer since other Engineers build on the last point (WHY). If there's a Medic on offense, I'll go demo since they don't know how to use stickies. I can't ever play Sniper/Spy since there's always like 3 of them in every fucking team.

Haha so true. I was on a team on Badwater I believe, and Cornburrito jokingly said we need more spies (there were 3 in total).

Had fun playing with SolidSnake. Whenever I have a good spy on my team it makes my job a bit easier as a spy.

Edit: Got a sweet stair stab on Pangloss and I can't view the replay because of some error :'(

Pangloss did something to my replay!

 

[Drkirby]

Also, in Pyro vs. Pyro matchups the flamethrower is going to be the deciding factor in how to approach it. Assuming both have the same load out except one with the reserve shooter and one with the shotgun, the reserve shooter one should win. The time between switching is negligible, but it'll only take 2 shots vs the shotgun's 3 shots.

I just want to point on, on land, the Reserve Shooter and the shotgun do the exact same damage. You would get your shot off first though with the Reserve Shooter (Unless you are in the odd match up that you don't have the Degreeser, but the enemy does)

Really, I am still in the "Pyro is underpowered" camp, so a weapon that adds utility is a plus to me. The Pyro right now only really excels in attacking people in odd ways, since he easily looses in most head on attacks.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Pyros saving grace is the airblast. Otherwise he would be eaten alive by any class. I think a Medic with the Blut will kill a Pyro backpedaling, unless the Pyro airblast him to a wall or use the secundary weapon (flare works really well).

 

[EmptyCanO'wupass]

reserve shooter for pyro

No no no no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guaranteed flare gun crits are bad enough! But reserve shooter with blowback is just fucking unimaginable...

 

[Yeef]

I just want to point on, on land, the Reserve Shooter and the shotgun do the exact same damage. You would get your shot off first though with the Reserve Shooter (Unless you are in the odd match up that you don't have the Degreeser, but the enemy does)

...but that's the point. You wouldn't be on land. you get in close, airblast and reserve shoot. If two pyros are standing outside of air blast range shooting at each other with the shotgun then that's just silly.

 

[Proven]

They could limit it by having the Pyro's version of the gun only mini crit when the opponent has been affected by an airblast and/or is on fire. They could also give it a flat damage decrease rather than limiting it to 3 shells. Or even give it a negative weapon switch speed.

 

[Yeef]

is SourceTV working with 4.0 Server, can't seem to get it going.

I had it disabled. It should be enabled now. Also, since it will auto-record matches with 4 or more players I'll upload the demos starting tomorrow. I'll set up a cron job that will auto-delete any demos older than a week old, so if you want them you'll hav ethe grab them before they're gone.

 

[sixghost]

They could limit it by having the Pyro's version of the gun only mini crit when the opponent has been affected by an airblast and/or is on fire. They could also give it a flat damage decrease rather than limiting it to 3 shells. Or even give it a negative weapon switch speed.

So would using the Degreaser/Reserve shooter effect the puff n sting as well? If the weapon switch rate stacks, that would make the axetinguisher even better.

It might just make the little bit of difference needed to prevent heavies from turning around and destroying you before you can do the axetinguisher/shotgun combo.

Pyros saving grace is the airblast. Otherwise he would be eaten alive by any class. I think a Medic with the Blut will kill a Pyro backpedaling, unless the Pyro airblast him to a wall or use the secundary weapon (flare works really well).

Yes they do . It's incredibly annoying. If you don't hit every shotgun shot they just heal themselves too quickly with that thing unless they have poor aim.

 

[Drkirby]

They could limit it by having the Pyro's version of the gun only mini crit when the opponent has been affected by an airblast and/or is on fire. They could also give it a flat damage decrease rather than limiting it to 3 shells. Or even give it a negative weapon switch speed.

Then it wouldn't be the same weapon. Right now, you can simply equip the Reserve Shooter to both classes, works the same for both.

 

[Pancakes]

Yes they do . It's incredibly annoying. If you don't hit every shotgun shot they just heal themselves too quickly with that thing unless they have poor aim.

But oh so satisfying .

 

[Blizzard]

Also, as much as I'd enjoy it, I think the Pyro having a reserve shooter is a bad idea. It's like a hitscan flaregun that does 121 damage and doesn't need the enemy to be on fire. Plus it has 3 shots instead of one.

No no no no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guaranteed flare gun crits are bad enough! But reserve shooter with blowback is just fucking unimaginable...

Wait. Valve has been nerfing the pyro for like two years, now it's basically a support rather than offensive class that airblasts and spychecks, and you're COMPLAINING when the beta even hints about a buff?

Why do you hate pyro? D:

 

[Yeef]

Wait. Valve has been nerfing the pyro for like two years, now it's basically a support rather than offensive class that airblasts and spychecks, and you're COMPLAINING when the beta even hints about a buff?

Why do you hate pyro? D:

It's not a buff, it's a new unlock. There's a difference.

 

[Blizzard]

It's not a buff, it's a new unlock. There's a difference.

If it's a good option that he didn't have before, it's a buff. Why are you complaining about options? Do you hate people in masks?

 

[Hazaro]

It's not a buff, it's a new unlock. There's a difference.

No it's a buff. A really good buff.

 

[Drkirby]

Can't wait for the loadouts to be in the normal version.

Pyro 1) Degreaser, Reserve Shooter, Axtinguisher, Sombrero. My Normal Loadout.
Pyro 1) Backbuner, Shotgun, Rake, Nappers. The Backburner loadout.
Pyro 3) Degreaser, Reserve Shooter, Powerjack, Attendant hat. The Attendant Loadout.
Pyro 4) Degreaser, Detonator, Maul, Deadcone. The Engy Defender Loadout.


Spy 1) Stock Knife, Ambassador, Stock Watch, Beret.
Spy 2) YER, L'etranger, Dead Ringer, Fez.
Spy 3) Stock Knife, Enforcer, Dead Ringer, Beret.
Spy 4) Big Earner, Enforcer, Dead Ringer, Beret.

I can also have Melee Mode Medic and Demoknight as their own slots.

The possibilities are finite!

 

[Tenck]

Can't wait for the loadouts to be in the normal version.

Pyro 1) Degreaser, Reserve Shooter, Axtinguisher, Sombrero. My Normal Loadout.
Pyro 1) Backbuner, Shotgun, Rake, Nappers. The Backburner loadout.
Pyro 3) Degreaser, Reserve Shooter, Powerjack, Attendant hat. The Attendant Loadout.
Pyro 4) Degreaser, Detonator, Maul, Deadcone. The Engy Defender Loadout.


Spy 1) Stock Knife, Ambassador, Stock Watch, Beret.
Spy 2) YER, L'etranger, Dead Ringer, Fez.
Spy 3) Stock Knife, Enforcer, Dead Ringer, Beret.
Spy 4) Big Earner, Enforcer, Dead Ringer, Beret.

I can also have Melee Mode Medic and Demoknight as their own slots.

The possibilities are finite!

No CnD makes me sad. I must be the only spy who uses it :/

On the bright side, trying to learn the Douche Ringer so I can annoy Gaf even more. Wish me luck!

 

[Drkirby]

The Cloak and Dagger is the worst watch IMO, it encourages a poor play style. You loose so much mobility with it.

 

[Tenck]

The Cloak and Dagger is the worst watch IMO, it encourages a poor play style. You loose so much mobility with it.

I don't know about poor play style, but the loss of mobility does suck.

 

[Drkirby]

Ok, here are what I think I am going to set up all my load outs at.

Scout:
1) Scattergun, Lugermorph, Atomizer
2) Milkman set.
3) Soda Popper, Mad Milk, and Atomizer.
4) Scattergun, Lugermorph, Sandman

Solider:
1) Stock Rocket Launcher, shotgun, Equalizer.
2) Tank Buster set + Equalizer
3) Stock Rocket Launcher, shotgun, Pain Train.
4) Stock Rocket Launcher, Buff Banner, Disciplinary Action.

Pyro:
1) Degreaser, Reserve Shooter, Axtinguisher.
1) Backbuner, Shotgun, Rake.
3) The Attendant set + Reserve Shooter
4) Degreaser, Detonator, Maul

Demo:
1) Grenade Launcher, Stickybomb Launcher, Pain train.
2) Grenade Launcher, Scottish Resistance, pan.
3) Loch-n-Load, Chargin' Targe, Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker
4) Ali Baba's Wee Booties, Splendid Screen, Persian Persuader

Heavy:
1) Iron Curtain, Sandvich, GRU
2) Brass Beast, Sandvich, GRU
3) Tomislav, Sandvich, GRU
4) Natasha, Sandvich, Warrior's Spirit

Engineer:
1) Frontier Justice, Lugermorph, Jag
2) Shotgun, Lugermorph, Gunslinger
3) Shotgun, Wrangler, Wrench
4) Shotgun, Short circuit, Southern Hospitality.

Medic:
1) Blutsauger, Medigun, Solemn Vow
2) Blutsauger, Kritzkrieg, Solemn Vow
3) Blutsauger, Quick Fix, Solemn Vow
4) Crusader Crossbow, Medigun, Solemn Vow


Sniper:
1) Sniper Riffle, SMG, Tribalman's Shiv
2) Sydney Sleeper set + Jarate
3) Huntsman, Jarate, Shahanshah
4) Machina, Darwin's Danger Shield, Shahanshah

Spy
1) Stock Knife, Ambassador, Stock Watch.
2) YER set, Dead Ringer,
3) Stock Knife, Enforcer, Dead Ringer.
4) Big Earner, Enforcer, Dead Ringer.

 

[Drkirby]

Now, for silly math!

Number of weapon loadouts possible for each class in beta:
Scout: 4 * 6 * 10 = 240
Soilder: 7 * 7 * 7 = 343
Pyro: 3 * 4 * 9 = 108
Demo: 3 * 5 * 12 = 180
Heavy: 5 * 6 * 8 = 240
Engineer: 3 * 4 * 6 = 72
Medic: 4 * 3 * 6 = 72
Sniper: 5 * 4 * 5 = 100
Spy: 6 * 5 * 4 = 120

Now, the number of hats per class:
Scout: 13
Soilder: 21
Pyro: 17
Demo: 17
Heavy: 20
Engineer: 14
Medic: 14
Sniper: 12
Spy: 12

All Class: 47

Totals:
Scout: 60
Soilder: 68
Pyro: 64
Demo: 64
Heavy: 67
Engineer: 61
Medic: 61
Sniper: 59
Spy: 59

Now, misc items:
All Class: 31 Badges, 4 things
Scout: 5 things
Soilder: 1 badge, 2 other things
Pyro: 4 things
Demo: 1 thing
Heavy: 4 things
Engineer: 5 things
Medic: 2 things
Sniper: 1 thing
Spy: 4 things.

Now, since each class can only have 1 of each type of misc (This mainly reduces the number of badges), this means the max number of combitnations of two is
Scout: 40 * 9 = 360
Soilder: 38 * 6 = 228
Pyro: 39 * 8 = 312
Demo: 36 * 5 = 180
Heavy: 39 * 8 = 312
Engineer: 40 * 9 = 360
Medic: 37 * 6 = 222
Sniper: 36 * 5 = 180
Spy: 39 * 8 = 312


Ok, now here comes the fun bits.

Possible number of cosmetic varations for each class:
Scout: 60 * 360 = 21600
Soilder: 68 * 228 = 15504
Pyro: 64 * 312 = 19968
Demo: 64 * 180 = 11520
Heavy: 67 * 312 = 20904
Engineer: 61 * 360 = 21960
Medic: 61 * 222 = 13542
Sniper: 59 * 180 = 10620
Spy: 59 * 312 = 18408

Now, if you multiply the number of cosmetic varations with the number of weapon combinations, you get
Scout: 21600 * 240 = 5184000
Soilder: 15504 * 343 = 5317872
Pyro: 19968 * 108 = 2156544
Demo: 11520 * 180 = 2073600
Heavy: 20904 * 240 = 5016960
Engineer: 21960 * 72 = 1581120
Medic: 13542 * 72 = 975024
Sniper: 10620 * 100 = 1062000
Spy: 18408 * 120 = 2208960

Now, there are 4 load out slots, so that means, each class to the power of 4 combinations of possible loadout combinations, just for that class.

Scout: 5184000 ^ 4 = 722204136308736000000000000
Soilder: 5317872 ^ 4 = 799744973186553819347091456
Pyro: 2156544 ^4 = 21628843287761449276932096
Demo: 2073600 ^ 4 = 18488425889503641600000000
Heavy: 5016960 ^ 4 = 633523243890768410050560000
Engineer: 1581120 ^ 4 = 6249702275545678479360000
Medic: 975024 ^ 4 = 903776872410413913931776
Sniper: 1062000 ^ 4 = 1272032088336000000000000
Spy: 2208960 ^ 4 = 23809562034152732098560000

Now, multiple them all together, and you get...
722204136308736000000000000 * 799744973186553819347091456 * 21628843287761449276932096 * 18488425889503641600000000 * 633523243890768410050560000 * 6249702275545678479360000 * 903776872410413913931776 * 1272032088336000000000000 * 23809562034152732098560000 = 2.50309482 × 10^229

If you were to store this as a single binary number, you would need 763 bits. You could also store it in string of 191 Hex characters.

See, I told you, the possiblities are finite!

 

[Acerac]

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595823342025686976/E2CFE780E292E3B3E7A9AF60228D997EDFE7EED1/[img]

I don't know about poor play style, but the loss of mobility does suck.[/QUOTE]
Gotta love getting 2 points per backstab. :)

 

[Bluth54]

Is there a reason that the server allows up to 25 players to join? I assume the 25th slot was added to allow the jankbot, but it allows one team to have 13 players:

Also any thoughts if we are going to be keeping the new server? It seems to be much nicer with much less jank and lower ping times for me. If it's more expensive to rent I would be willing to donate a little bit of money for it.

 

[Drkirby]

That is likely due to Yeef not lowering the slots after he took off the Jank TV Man. I am going to assume Source TV + Replays was causing crashes again (Or the Source TV bot died)

 

[Tenck]

Gotta love getting 2 points per backstab.

Gotta love everything about the Spy

Edit:

That is likely due to Yeef not lowering the slots after he took off the Jank TV Man. I am going to assume Source TV + Replays was causing crashes again (Or the Source TV bot died)

Yeef disabled the bot for a while. It's back online now.

 

[Wolf Akela]

CnD would be so much better if they kept the old glitch where it had a significant boost to regen.

Either that or make cloak drain health, then allow you to replenish with medkits.

 

[Bakphoon]

Second Misc. Slot

DAMMIT VALVE!

I traded of my best miscs away for a Hat, and now YOU ARE ADDING A SECOND MISC. SLOT?!

Thanks that I will have to get them much more expensive back!