• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Team Fortress 2 |OT3| - Murder-based Hat Simulator

C

Clydefrog

Member
FsVnk.jpg
 
T

Tenck

Member
Boney said:
what

whyyyyyyyy
Click to expand...

TF2 is not fun anymore. Only reason I've been joining was to just talk to some people there. In all honesty, this has happened before with Quake, and I took quite a few years away from it. Hopefully this isn't the case, but I somehow feel it's going to be inevitable.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Since I'm sure everyone wants to know my detailed thoughts on heavy nerfs, here are my awesome thoughts!

I think the sandvich change is a bad idea since it makes heavy more of a boring one-dimensional character. The same would be true for making the GRU or fists of steel more useless, since the result is you would probably use the KGB (or the shotgun in the sandvich), and not have the option of different loadouts for flanking or running past sentries. Those options may be limited but it's still nice, and I suspect the GRU might let you do a few jumps you couldn't otherwise do?

At any rate, previously if you were smart you could plan battles, try to pick engagements wisely, drop a sandvich in a strategic spot if you need to, and then be ready to fight from a strong position. I like the idea that the heavy is about winning the battle before it starts through positioning and proper judgment of the enemy numbers and abilities. Without the ability to drop a sandvich for a certain spot, or have a safe route to run through, you might be limited to medkits, or just plain old dumb run-and-minigun heavy. I basically NEVER eat the sandvich with the taunt since it takes so long and is so loud, and I pretty much always carried the steak sandvich since it came out.

Without the ability to drop the sandvich, I could see heavies not carrying it...which means they won't be able to heal their medics, which makes things more frustrating for another class besides heavy.

Short version, I feel it causes frustration for two classes and reduces strategic options.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
Blizzard said:
Since I'm sure everyone wants to know my detailed thoughts on heavy nerfs, here are my awesome thoughts!

I think the sandvich change is a bad idea since it makes heavy more of a boring one-dimensional character. The same would be true for making the GRU or fists of steel more useless, since the result is you would probably use the KGB (or the shotgun in the sandvich), and not have the option of different loadouts for flanking or running past sentries. Those options may be limited but it's still nice, and I suspect the GRU might let you do a few jumps you couldn't otherwise do?

At any rate, previously if you were smart you could plan battles, try to pick engagements wisely, drop a sandvich in a strategic spot if you need to, and then be ready to fight from a strong position. I like the idea that the heavy is about winning the battle before it starts through positioning and proper judgment of the enemy numbers and abilities. Without the ability to drop a sandvich for a certain spot, or have a safe route to run through, you might be limited to medkits, or just plain old dumb run-and-minigun heavy. I basically NEVER eat the sandvich with the taunt since it takes so long and is so loud, and I pretty much always carried the steak sandvich since it came out.

Without the ability to drop the sandvich, I could see heavies not carrying it...which means they won't be able to heal their medics, which makes things more frustrating for another class besides heavy.

Short version, I feel it causes frustration for two classes and reduces strategic options.
Click to expand...
You can still drop the sandvich, it just doesn't heal the heavy who dropped it, just replenishes the sandvich bar if he picks it up. I think it's a good change because it actually makes it more of a sidegrade like it's supposed to be. Actually, shotguns are still pretty worthless for a heavy so sandvich will still be preferable it just doesn't let the heavy himself have the most health, constantly have medics on him, AND have an instant medium healthkit anytime he wants.

Having him heal himself with his dropped sandvich doesn't make him more strategic, it just lets him use the GRU by himself without any of the downside thereby negating that he should be slow and it should take you a while to get back into the fight when you respawn.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Rickenslacker said:
Having him heal himself with his dropped sandvich doesn't make him more strategic, it just lets him use the GRU by himself without any of the downside thereby negating that he should be slow and it should take you a while to get back into the fight when you respawn.
Click to expand...
It does allow you to be more strategic if you choose. You can ignore the sandvich, or you could only use it to heal yourself from a GRU run without a medic (which you could probably do from medkits anyway), but that doesn't mean you CAN'T use it strategically. You can drop it to defend a corner, allowing you to retreat back to it as if there were a medkit there.

Plus a good team will have a teleporter or a medic, which means the GRU run to the front lines won't hurt you anyway. If you run and use your sandvich immediately to heal damage, then you lose the ability to use the sandvich as a fallback/escape mechanism as described above, until it recharges.

I think even Valve may have mentioned that they liked the idea of classes getting to the front lines faster, but I may be totally wrong there. Someone was talking about it at least.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
It's just that being the class with the most health and usually having a medic reinforcing that means that a heavy really doesn't need an instant medkit on a whim. It could be used to keep their medic alive in a pinch, but if anything being able to safely retreat and use the sandvich taunt would be more strategic and require a larger net of safety than simply overexerting yourself turning the corner and plopping one down before the opposition can react.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
Awww, forgot to enter Artistdud's contest. It was going to be about as obscene as Borg's sprays. You can all blame dota2, which is both great and the worst thing imaginable all rolled up into one.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
What kind of shitty team can't kill a medic on dustbowl?
I mean you only had 4 demomen, they should easily have at least 6.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Hazaro said:
What kind of shitty team can't kill a medic on dustbowl?
I mean you only had 4 demomen, they should easily have at least 6.
Click to expand...

"can't" is probably the wrong word. perhaps they simply failed to acknowledge the importance of killing him. which happens when a Heavy is spraying you in the face or if you're disorganized.
 
B

Borgnine

MBA in pussy licensing and rights management
Yeef said:
It's called Titan.
Click to expand...

Oh god this was great. Run past and whip you "come on buddy let's go get 'em!" jump the tracks and turn around....... yeef?.............. yeef...?

Also yeah that was a cool map, apparently people didn't know about the ledges above the points, which I exploited the fuck out of. Now that I've mentioned that I don't think we should play it anymore.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Tenck said:
TF2 is not fun anymore. Only reason I've been joining was to just talk to some people there. In all honesty, this has happened before with Quake, and I took quite a few years away from it. Hopefully this isn't the case, but I somehow feel it's going to be inevitable.
Click to expand...

hhhhhhhhhrmmmmmmmmmmmmm

but who's gonna post awesome sprays :(
 
P

Proven

Member
Five posts since last night I'm not going to bother to quote.

Remember the bug a long time ago that let dispensers keep an overheal from depleting on a character? It was a really big deal as it determined a CEVO match on Gravelpit one time, and sparked a huge controversy.The QuickFix has that naturally.

Tenck! You never take the Festive Scattergun and now you went and installed TF2!? Was it because of Brickyard? I promise to never touch Brickyard.

Alienups, you passed me on Medic points and assists, I think, but not anything else. As long as I'm still one of the kings...

I had to restart my computer because of the weird Youtube fucking with Chrome problem. There isn't any one single way around it, although I know it's caused by Flash. So far it's stopped fucking around.

My big thing with the Heavy nerf is that it's lowering his utility and options. Something else needs to be given or else people are just going to keep picking on him anyway.

School's started and I'll probably end up playing TF2 less as I play more single player games in my down time. As for now my eyes are on Kingdoms of Amalur and Fortune Summoners.

Oh, and I have a Steam Mobile invite. I'll give it away on the server tomorrow.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Now that I've had some time to see the new weapons in action.

New pyro weapon - no fucking air blast?? Heavy unloading right in front during a taunt can't kill him?? I even think a Douche Ringer spy can't survive that. If they're going to give him that, I'd prefer it to be a count down on his health til death.

Spy cicle - haven't used it, but if a pyro is dumb enough to fall for the sound of it melting, he deserves to die. The sound is distinctive and the effect isn't long enough that I can't chase down douche ringers once I catch them. I haven't caught any CD spies with it yet, but I'm sure I wouldn't miss that sound. If anything, I think they need to put the death sound in and I would be fine with it. I haven't had any bs facestabs after burning spies.

Enforcer - terrible gun that needs a nerf. I don't know why a spy needs this sort of weapon when there is zero draw back. At least the ambassador takes skill and there is risk vs reward. This needs fewer bullets and a longer reload ttime. The spy is stealth not fucking getting caught and shooting your way out. This with the douche ringer = ugh.

Engie wrench - I have only seen it a few times. Not sure it's worth losing the ability to move stuff. Also heard one guy say it didn't work and he died cause he couldn't escape.

Engie guns - don't really add anything and I've gone back to regular shotty and pistol.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Kuro Madoushi said:
Now that I've had some time to see the new weapons in action.

New pyro weapon - no fucking air blast?? Heavy unloading right in front during a taunt can't kill him?? I even think a Douche Ringer spy can't survive that. If they're going to give him that, I'd prefer it to be a count down on his health til death.

Spy cicle - haven't used it, but if a pyro is dumb enough to fall for the sound of it melting, he deserves to die. The sound is distinctive and the effect isn't long enough that I can't chase down douche ringers once I catch them. I haven't caught any CD spies with it yet, but I'm sure I wouldn't miss that sound. If anything, I think they need to put the death sound in and I would be fine with it. I haven't had any bs facestabs after burning spies.

Enforcer - terrible gun that needs a nerf. I don't know why a spy needs this sort of weapon when there is zero draw back. At least the ambassador takes skill and there is risk vs reward. This needs fewer bullets and a longer reload ttime. The spy is stealth not fucking getting caught and shooting your way out. This with the douche ringer = ugh.

Engie wrench - I have only seen it a few times. Not sure it's worth losing the ability to move stuff. Also heard one guy say it didn't work and he died cause he couldn't escape.

Engie guns - don't really add anything and I've gone back to regular shotty and pistol.
Click to expand...
I thought the enforcer did/will get a nerf. I hadn't really noticed the details of the new pyro flamethrower (which I still don't have) until today, but yes, using the normal heavy minigun at point blank range, possibly even clipped as close as possible to the pyro, already spun up, might leave them at 1/4 to 1/3 health as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of gun clipping either, it just literally reduces damage that much, and then you almost certainly die because of the pyro crits if you were within range to do enough damage. I haven't read the description to see if any damage reduction is applied during the pyro crit period or if it just goes back to normal.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Blizzard said:
I thought the enforcer did/will get a nerf. I hadn't really noticed the details of the new pyro flamethrower (which I still don't have) until today, but yes, using the normal heavy minigun at point blank range, possibly even clipped as close as possible to the pyro, already spun up, might leave them at 1/4 to 1/3 health as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of gun clipping either, it just literally reduces damage that much, and then you almost certainly die because of the pyro crits if you were within range to do enough damage. I haven't read the description to see if any damage reduction is applied during the pyro crit period or if it just goes back to normal.
Click to expand...

Only reason I did that was cause I knew I was fucked. Generally, if I'm a demo, I'll lay stickies around him during the taunt to mess him up when it's over. However, I've seen that thing rip through teams so I knew I didn't have a choice.

I just don't think the pyro needs that. The class has everything it needs if you play intelligently and eschew playing the chaos pyro. Goddamn people don't use the shotgun enough. :/. They also charge headlong into a fight, which is ok if you're good at reflecting, but not recommended.
 
C

Cloudius12

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
Now that I've had some time to see the new weapons in action.

New pyro weapon - no fucking air blast?? Heavy unloading right in front during a taunt can't kill him?? I even think a Douche Ringer spy can't survive that. If they're going to give him that, I'd prefer it to be a count down on his health til death.

Spy cicle - haven't used it, but if a pyro is dumb enough to fall for the sound of it melting, he deserves to die. The sound is distinctive and the effect isn't long enough that I can't chase down douche ringers once I catch them. I haven't caught any CD spies with it yet, but I'm sure I wouldn't miss that sound. If anything, I think they need to put the death sound in and I would be fine with it. I haven't had any bs facestabs after burning spies.

Enforcer - terrible gun that needs a nerf. I don't know why a spy needs this sort of weapon when there is zero draw back. At least the ambassador takes skill and there is risk vs reward. This needs fewer bullets and a longer reload ttime. The spy is stealth not fucking getting caught and shooting your way out. This with the douche ringer = ugh.

Engie wrench - I have only seen it a few times. Not sure it's worth losing the ability to move stuff. Also heard one guy say it didn't work and he died cause he couldn't escape.

Engie guns - don't really add anything and I've gone back to regular shotty and pistol.
Click to expand...

Engie wrench is trash, the startup animation in order to port away to too long.

Engie gun is godlike for drain cloak and uber charge away.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Cloudius12 said:
Engie wrench is trash, the startup animation in order to port away to too long.

Engie gun is godlike for drain cloak and uber charge away.
Click to expand...

Huh. I don't get hit by it when I play med so I wouldn't know.

And goddamn it I keep telling you to attack from the sides, behind, and top and when they are unaware.

Stop attacking from the front!

I see you're at least getting closer to get meat shots in, but I see you in too many one on one battles and trying to get an angle in after someone has noticed you. Retreat and hit from far away or position near health. Unless it's a Valve server, or you're a very good scout, most classes have the jump on you in a straight fight.

Best cases are lone players you can surprise and pick off or you see an opening to get a meat shot or two in and retreat. Unless you're cornered, you should always know where to back off.

You also need to provide more cover fire and spam support, again, if you see a teammate firing in one direction, you need to fire off a round or two while escaping. If the enemy is preoccupied, take the free shots.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
New pyro weapon - no fucking air blast?? Heavy unloading right in front during a taunt can't kill him?? I even think a Douche Ringer spy can't survive that. If they're going to give him that, I'd prefer it to be a count down on his health til death.
Click to expand...
The taunt has the same resistance as the Dead Ringer: 90%. With Pyro health that means you need to, essentially, deal 1750 damage to kill him during the taunt vs 1250 for a dead ringer spy.

Kuro Madoushi said:
Spy cicle - haven't used it, but if a pyro is dumb enough to fall for the sound of it melting, he deserves to die. The sound is distinctive and the effect isn't long enough that I can't chase down douche ringers once I catch them. I haven't caught any CD spies with it yet, but I'm sure I wouldn't miss that sound. If anything, I think they need to put the death sound in and I would be fine with it. I haven't had any bs facestabs after burning spies.
Click to expand...
Only because most spies are crap at using it. The trick, with the spy-cicle and dead ringer combo is that you walk around with your primary out. If you get caught by a pyro you dead ringer to put yourself out and cloak, then switch to the knife so that if they do manage to hit you again, it still does no good. You don't ignite and you're 100% invisible. If you're not a crappy spy and don't follow a predictable route there's not way for them to find you.

Kuro Madoushi said:
Engie guns - don't really add anything and I've gone back to regular shotty and pistol.
Click to expand...
The Pomson is a nice sidegrade. It can do wonders at stopping a push if you can get the medic before he activates it, since each shot drains 10% uber.

The widowmaker is, easily, the best engineer primary around. Unless your aim is awful, it's essentially a shotgun that doesn't need reloading, has infinite ammo AND refills your metal. Since you still get metal from it when you hit disguised spies, it's also a method of spy checking. I've been using the regular shotgun lately just out of nostalgia's sake (since I prefer the alternatives on every class), but the widowmaker absolutely beats it, hands down, in the vast majority of situations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

New DOOM: Dark Ages Preview details from closed showcase
Community 2
64
4K
Eiknarf replied
Deadlock |OT|
|OT| Community 2
65
3K
dorkimoe replied
LTTP | Shin Megami Tensei : Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker
LTTP
2
256
DelireMan7 replied
LTTP | Valkyrie Profile 2 : Silmeria
LTTP
15
686
DelireMan7 replied
DOOM 1 + 2 on Steam (and NS/Xbox/PS) has been upgraded with new re-release
2 3 4 5 6
257
15K
Danknugz replied
Top Bottom