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Team Fortress 2 |OT3| - Murder-based Hat Simulator

T

Tenck

Member
Yeef said:
Only because most spies are crap at using it. The trick, with the spy-cicle and dead ringer combo is that you walk around with your primary out. If you get caught by a pyro you dead ringer to put yourself out and cloak, then switch to the knife so that if they do manage to hit you again, it still does no good. You don't ignite and you're 100% invisible. If you're not a crappy spy and don't follow a predictable route there's not way for them to find you.
Click to expand...

Two seconds is enough time to get distance between you and the Pyro. Why Kuro believe he will somehow get every spy who uses it is beyond me.
 
J

Jake Tower

Banned
Yeef said:
The taunt has the same resistance as the Dead Ringer: 90%. With Pyro health that means you need to, essentially, deal 1750 damage to kill him during the taunt vs 1250 for a dead ringer spy.

Only because most spies are crap at using it. The trick, with the spy-cicle and dead ringer combo is that you walk around with your primary out. If you get caught by a pyro you dead ringer to put yourself out and cloak, then switch to the knife so that if they do manage to hit you again, it still does no good. You don't ignite and you're 100% invisible. If you're not a crappy spy and don't follow a predictable route there's not way for them to find you.

The Pomson is a nice sidegrade. It can do wonders at stopping a push if you can get the medic before he activates it, since each shot drains 10% uber.

The widowmaker is, easily, the best engineer primary around. Unless your aim is awful, it's essentially a shotgun that doesn't need reloading, has infinite ammo AND refills your metal. Since you still get metal from it when you hit disguised spies, it's also a method of spy checking. I've been using the regular shotgun lately just out of nostalgia's sake (since I prefer the alternatives on every class), but the widowmaker absolutely beats it, hands down, in the vast majority of situations.
Click to expand...
*This* is the type of commentary I was looking for up thread!

I wondered if the Widowmaker returned metal on hitting disguised Spies . . . that makes it a sweet spy-check tool for the Engi. Gotta craft one now!

I'm sure it's been done (possibly earlier in this thread), but I'm very interested in this type of analysis of the various items and loadout choices for play styles/objectives.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Yeef said:
The taunt has the same resistance as the Dead Ringer: 90%. With Pyro health that means you need to, essentially, deal 1750 damage to kill him during the taunt vs 1250 for a dead ringer spy.

Only because most spies are crap at using it. The trick, with the spy-cicle and dead ringer combo is that you walk around with your primary out. If you get caught by a pyro you dead ringer to put yourself out and cloak, then switch to the knife so that if they do manage to hit you again, it still does no good. You don't ignite and you're 100% invisible. If you're not a crappy spy and don't follow a predictable route there's not way for them to find you.

The Pomson is a nice sidegrade. It can do wonders at stopping a push if you can get the medic before he activates it, since each shot drains 10% uber.

The widowmaker is, easily, the best engineer primary around. Unless your aim is awful, it's essentially a shotgun that doesn't need reloading, has infinite ammo AND refills your metal. Since you still get metal from it when you hit disguised spies, it's also a method of spy checking. I've been using the regular shotgun lately just out of nostalgia's sake (since I prefer the alternatives on every class), but the widowmaker absolutely beats it, hands down, in the vast majority of situations.
Click to expand...
1. Still crap weapon.
2. I can still hear the burning sound after a dr has popped. I wm1 the shit out of the vicinity and so far I've gotten most of them. Damn me if it doesn't make them more cockroach-like. Though usually, they have it out while disguised. I think it would be just as easy to get them if they popped dr and then used the knife.
3. I prefer minis so I don't like it. You have to get too close for it to give you enough metal back to make it worthwhile and the limited metal means I can't fire spam.

Edit: I don't think, I DAMN sure I've gotten most if not all icicle spies thus far. I'm probably the most aggressive spy checker here. So I was worried at first, but if you pay attention and know where metal and health is, it's not hard.
 
T

Tenck

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
1. Still crap weapon.
2. I can still hear the burning sound after a dr has popped. I wm1 the shit out of the vicinity and so far I've gotten most of them. Damn me if it doesn't make them more cockroach-like. Though usually, they have it out while disguised. I think it would be just as easy to get them if they popped dr and then used the knife.
3. I prefer minis so I don't like it. You have to get too close for it to give you enough metal back to make it worthwhile and the limited metal means I can't fire spam.

Edit: I don't think, I DAMN sure I've gotten most if not all icicle spies thus far. I'm probably the most aggressive spy checker here. So I was worried at first, but if you pay attention and know where metal and health is, it's not hard.
Click to expand...

Only an idiot would go for health and metal!
 
C

Cloudius12

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
Huh. I don't get hit by it when I play med so I wouldn't know.

And goddamn it I keep telling you to attack from the sides, behind, and top and when they are unaware.

Stop attacking from the front!

I see you're at least getting closer to get meat shots in, but I see you in too many one on one battles and trying to get an angle in after someone has noticed you. Retreat and hit from far away or position near health. Unless it's a Valve server, or you're a very good scout, most classes have the jump on you in a straight fight.

Best cases are lone players you can surprise and pick off or you see an opening to get a meat shot or two in and retreat. Unless you're cornered, you should always know where to back off.

You also need to provide more cover fire and spam support, again, if you see a teammate firing in one direction, you need to fire off a round or two while escaping. If the enemy is preoccupied, take the free shots.
Click to expand...

but its so hard to practice >.< those old habit =(

Going to keep trying though. Put too much time in Scout to let it go to waste.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
The spy-cicle isn't necessarily an auto-win button against a Pyro, but it's a completely unnecessary addition. Why would you give the spy a tool to defend against his biggest nemesis? Unless the pyro is using a shotgun, just backpedal and kill him with the enforcer then run off. And there's no real noticeable downside for using it; even the Big Earner takes some health away.
 
T

Tenck

Member
divisionbyzorro said:
The spy-cicle isn't necessarily an auto-win button against a Pyro, but it's a completely unnecessary addition. Why would you give the spy a tool to defend against his biggest nemesis? Unless the pyro is using a shotgun, just backpedal and kill him with the enforcer then run off. And there's no real noticeable downside for using it; even the Big Earner takes some health away.
Click to expand...

You have to rely on your gun for like 10 seconds though right?

Definitely a down side if you're dumb and rely only on your knife. And even the good spies usually use the revolver or Amby. Still tough to bring someone down.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Togglesworlh said:
hah kuro in here trying to act like he's pro again

WHAT UP WIT DAT
Click to expand...

Toggles with the trolling again. Careful bud! Don't get into old habits and get banned again! <3

I will say again, unless there is a ledge to jump off, I can still hear the burning sound and two seconds is not a lot to outrun a pyro wm1. So far, even after they use it, I still have them in my range enough to set them on fire after. So, I'm not too bothered by the spy cicle.

Spies cannot 'outrun' pyros properly spy checking.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
So much enforcer hate in here, I don't get it. The increased decloak time sucks.
Click to expand...

Spy already has a douche ringer and now you want to give him a gun that can kill most classes in three shots? When he has a wonky facestab mechanic already? Might as well give the pyro a shotty that does extra damage to spies only and makes them bleed. Most spies I've seen don't even use the IW or CD with it.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
So much enforcer hate in here, I don't get it. The increased decloak time sucks.
Click to expand...
Enforcer doesn't affect the decloak time. Just the time it takes to cloak. And, because of the way the dead ringer works, it doesn't have ANY downside when using that watch. More importantly, the spy isn't supposed to be a direct combat class. Also, because of the backstab and crit mechanics, he generally has a high chance of getting a random crit with it as well.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
I don't play much anymore, but one of the simple pleasures in life is being mostly useless to your team and sitting behind enemy lines with the cloak and dagger, and ambassador.

My mission is to avoid getting bumped into, and occasionally to decloak and headshot + bodyshot the sniper who keeps using the same position.

Last night it was forkball. Tragically after I did it like four times, I got hit by a pyro (which was probably my own fault) while cloaked. =(
 
Y

Yeef

Member
I got a #30 crate last night and I'm tempted to open it...

[EDIT] If the price guide is to be believed, EVERYTHING in the crate is worth more than the crate itself. I'd almost be a fool not to open it!
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Someone on SPUF actually posted an interesting idea for the Phlog. Give it airblasts, but have it use MMPH to airblast instead of ammo. That way with no mmph, you can't airblast, but then if you want to airblast you have to delay your crit-rampage. I think that'd be enough to get me to actually use it once in awhile.

Also, other than getting caught around a corner, Phlog is fairly useless against competent players. I think a part of the reason people get killed by it, at this point, is that they don't realize how it works. They see a taunting pyro and assume that he's an easy target, not realizing that he has huge damage reduction. In time, more people will come to realize to stay away. Still, it'd be better if they gave it a unique taunt instead of using the normal one.
 
Y

yeoz

Member
Yeef said:
I got a #30 crate last night and I'm tempted to open it...

[EDIT] If the price guide is to be believed, EVERYTHING in the crate is worth more than the crate itself. I'd almost be a fool not to open it!
Click to expand...

But is everything worth more than cost of crate plus cost of key?
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Yeef said:
Someone on SPUF actually posted an interesting idea for the Phlog. Give it airblasts, but have it use MMPH to airblast instead of ammo. That way with no mmph, you can't airblast, but then if you want to airblast you have to delay your crit-rampage. I think that'd be enough to get me to actually use it once in awhile.
Click to expand...

I endorse this idea.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
Do any Phlog pyros ever use MMPH to ambush? All I see them do is block a cap or use it as a second wind. Anyone who knows how to deal with MMPHing pyros can easy take them out in those situations.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Togglesworlh said:
uh i ain't never been banned bro dunno what you're talkin' 'bout

ps it ain't trollin' if it's true
Click to expand...
Except like, 6-8 times. And why do you use so much punctuation but not capital letters? :(

fallengorn said:
Do any Phlog pyros ever use MMPH to ambush? All I see them do is block a cap or use it as a second wind. Anyone who knows how to deal with MMPHing pyros can easy take them out in those situations.
Click to expand...

Regarding the phlog ambush, I think I've seen the occasional ambush to destroy everyone near a building corner, but recently it seems to be the style to just charge into battle, become invincible while people try to kill you, and then get a couple of kills. If people start running away from the taunt and they have high-damage distance weapons to kill the pyro with before they close the gap, then it might become manageable, though.

My problem is that I don't know what, if any, pyro stats change while the effect is active after the taunt. I've been too lazy to look it up on a wiki.

Or maybe the new pyro strategy will be to charge the phlog, use the detonator to fly through the skies onto their enemies, and then switch back!
 
S

Sianos

Member
LIFE TIP: If you use up the last of someone's medicine, it's considered polite to at the very least leave a note. Have had the worst headache for two days now and no chance to head down to the store.

Anyways, I've been running the stock spy lately and loving it. While I don't have the safety net for when I screw up a stab/Jank at a bad time, it's a lot easier to move around and slip away thanks to the quieter decloak.

Unless I'm in a bad position with one/no escape routes Pyros aren't too hard to outwit. Fake them out, pick clever hiding spots, and if they are walking in a straight line or predictable pattern gun them down with the often underestimated stock revolver. Most of my problems with Pyros come from me being overzealous with trickstabs, haha.

I've been fooling around with the Cloak and Dagger a bit lately, and in a few situations I've found it useful. Not being able to regain cloak from ammo hurts, but slipping into the shadows and watching the enemy scour for you is great. The Invisibility Watch has more utilities and is generally better than the Cloak and Dagger, but it's still better than I gave it credit for and can be fun to use.

Current biggest problem is my tendency to whiff stabs and die trying to overzealously continue attacking or screw up the escape. In those cases I've found the Dead Ringer more useful, but the halved cloak time hurts as I have to make my escape quicker and less time to fake and juke.
 
T

Tenck

Member
NSQuote said:
LIFE TIP: If you use up the last of someone's medicine, it's considered polite to at the very least leave a note. Have had the worst headache for two days now and no chance to head down to the store.

Anyways, I've been running the stock spy lately and loving it. While I don't have the safety net for when I screw up a stab/Jank at a bad time, it's a lot easier to move around and slip away thanks to the quieter decloak.

Unless I'm in a bad position with one/no escape routes Pyros aren't too hard to outwit. Fake them out, pick clever hiding spots, and if they are walking in a straight line or predictable pattern gun them down with the often underestimated stock revolver. Most of my problems with Pyros come from me being overzealous with trickstabs, haha.

I've been fooling around with the Cloak and Dagger a bit lately, and in a few situations I've found it useful. Not being able to regain cloak from ammo hurts, but slipping into the shadows and watching the enemy scour for you is great. The Invisibility Watch has more utilities and is generally better than the Cloak and Dagger, but it's still better than I gave it credit for and can be fun to use.

Current biggest problem is my tendency to whiff stabs and die trying to overzealously continue attacking or screw up the escape. In those cases I've found the Dead Ringer more useful, but the halved cloak time hurts as I have to make my escape quicker and less time to fake and juke.
Click to expand...

Like Meta said (and countless other dedicated spies) IW is used to infiltrate enemy's line of defense, and tough to get. With the DR it's tough to infiltrate but easy to escape. At one point I would never use the DR because I didn't like it. But people kept saying that with my C&D I wasn't contributing enough (despite my screenshots proving otherwise). So I learned to make people's playtime even more miserable. I learned that as Spy, you can't win in TF2 Gaf, despite what you do :p
 
T

The Omega Man

Member
Tenck said:
I learned that as Spy, you can't win in TF2 Gaf, despite what you do :p
Click to expand...

screenshot2012-01-31azkit3.png
 
S

Sianos

Member
Even the server itself conspires against spies with its Jank!

The Cloak and Dagger is almost a middle ground. You have cloak on demand, but its shorter than the classic watch and can't refill with ammo. You can hide forever to help slip away, but you don't have the damage shield and extinguish.

Part of me says my overinvestment in winning in the face of hopeless situations is what leads to anger, but another says I'd be a coward to back down from the challenge. Part of me wants to say "stop playing that class and do this so we can achieve victory", but another says "just keep doing what you are doing and try your best to help in your own way (extinguishing and taking out key targets as sniper)".

In the end, there are no stakes to GAF games. It isn't worth obsessing over victory to the point of anger. Just do your best and help in your own way.

In other news, I finally got some decent sleep should be able to pick up tylenol tonight! :D
 
Y

Yeef

Member
The is, apparently, a King of the hill version of everyone's favorite Custom, Attack/Defend, Egypt-themed map, Sekhmet. So, I added it to the server.

A/D Version (we've played it before)

cp_sekhmet_a3_stairs.jpg



KOTH version (NEW!)

koth_sekhmet_b2_02.jpg
 
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