Completely agree. I didn't even notice the Shaheen and Kat sexyness factor although Shaheen looks like that dude who is known for his handsomeness and well Kat is Kat.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
- Status
Namco's stupidity knows no bounds. You made a videogame that was world class which led to the 40+ million sales. When you make a world class game, the general public will want to buy it. And the population of developed North America + Europe + other areas that sell videogames is approximately 9x more than Japan... so in the end, your game is catering to the same proportion of demographic in both Japan and overseas. There's nothing wrong that statistic.
But alas, can't wait to see what excuse they'll come up with next once Tekken 7 sells the same as the previous iteration considering they have 0 intention of evolving the series.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
I don't know about you guys.. But I get excited about TEKKEN in my own way.
This month was amazing for NA fans/viewers because of the NA qualifiers for T7.
Also, in Nov. is MASTERCUP in Japan. Excited for that.
December is the global championships. There's a lot of stuff in between too.
I'm being brutally honest and not trying to get people's hopes up. You need to understand. I'm a huge TEKKEN fan and even I have to tell them to not tell me everything so I can still love it/be surprised.
Heck. I don't even play TEKKEN 7 at home (even though it's there) because I want to save the full on experience for when I'm in Japanese arcades or when the eventual console one comes out. I watch vids/streams like I used to back in the day.
That's all. I like TEKKEN and I help work on the game. That's it.
This month was amazing for NA fans/viewers because of the NA qualifiers for T7.
Also, in Nov. is MASTERCUP in Japan. Excited for that.
December is the global championships. There's a lot of stuff in between too.
I'm being brutally honest and not trying to get people's hopes up. You need to understand. I'm a huge TEKKEN fan and even I have to tell them to not tell me everything so I can still love it/be surprised.
Heck. I don't even play TEKKEN 7 at home (even though it's there) because I want to save the full on experience for when I'm in Japanese arcades or when the eventual console one comes out. I watch vids/streams like I used to back in the day.
That's all. I like TEKKEN and I help work on the game. That's it.
We all love Tekken man. I watch these tournaments LIVE every time even with the 9hr difference. Just ask bout and AAK. Sleeping 6-7AM everytime.
The thing is all we can do for now as console gamers(most of us) is just watch. Ain't nothing new but we do get salty the longer we don't hear anything.
If we had a demo or a beta or anything like that we would be happy. Or any news that includes us. Waiting a year plus can have some effect on people. Again not new but it is amplified now for some reason. Add that to the fact that other fighters are being announced after Tekken 7 and already got dates...
I believe you brother...BTW. I guarantee it'll be a good month for TEKKEN fans.
Ask Harada about TXSF lol
BTW. I guarantee it'll be a good month for TEKKEN fans.
I'm a big fan of nothing myself.
If you don't play Tekken 7 at home, you could pass your kit over to me. Just saying. >_>
I hope you convey a lot of the concerns voiced in this thread to Murray/Harada. To sum up, a lot of people are not fans of:
1. 95% RECYCLED Tag 2 customizations that looks completely HIDEOUS!!!! My single biggest issue with the game when I watch it on streams.
2. Terrible 3D character modeling for some characters with hair clipping and other issues (Dragunov, Katarina, Lili, etc.).
3. Super ULTRA KAWAII!!!!! approach and bad designs/concepts for some new characters. It was 100% fine when it was just Xiaoyu. It was okay when they introduced Lili and Asuka. It became hardly tolerable when we got Alisa. And now they went overboard and brought over Josie and Chloe to make this a complete nuisance. I would have nothing against these characters if they all didn't fall under the same under-20 year old population that loves to have cute little drama going on (Asuka/Lili storyline, Xiaoyu/Alisa storyline, who knows what Josie/Chloe storyline).
Is it hard for Japan to create a mature black woman? Is it hard to create an old woman? Is it hard to create a fat woman? Do all women have to be cute and young for them to be appealing? This is another extremely annoying trend with Tekken.
4. Lack of evolution in gameplay. The tag assault evolved the game mechanics substantially. What "new" is Tekken 7 bringing exactly when its two staple features (rage arts and power crush) are borrowed from SFIV and barely ever used in competitive play? Not to mention most rage arts have no real effort put behind them to make them hype - most are just a bunch of different command list moves stringed together.
I am saying this as someone that loves playing Tekken 7 as it is right now.
5. 10-year old costumes for returning characters and failed attempts in creating new ones (i.e. you can tell Jin's design had no creative thought and was scrapped together last minute after people complained about defaults being so old).
Don't be surprised when Tekken's popularity dwindles even further down the drain in the console market and sells even less than Tag 2. Arcades are also dying off and Namco won't have that venue to milk anymore either (sooner or later).
I think you are right in applauding MKX for what it does right, but also have to recognize its faults.
For example, if you want to look at diversity (and not just black characters), MKX is atrocious with character voice acting and accents whereas Tekken is very excellent with incorporating professional voice actors that actually speak the respective character's native language very well.
Agreed.
I've been rooting for a black female character for some time.
THIS!
We should get something by end of the year, if not then Harada is clowning around. Tekken Project team getting juggled with nonsense projects.
I actually feel sorry for these guys. Instead of working and finishing one game at normal human pace, Harada is like: "Drop everything, do Pokken! I'm feeling kawai! Develop Summer vacation!"
Taking on multiple projects is probably the reason why Tekken 7 is the way it is.
I think the worst offender so far was making Jack 7's body-lines glow, and hitting the random button for his color scheme. He's colored like an Original Character do not steal on Deviantart. That's the best they could do to freshen up his appearance? It's still the same exact model.
Yes, that is the worst offender.
It completely reeks of "oh crap most people seem to want new default costumes....better put together these quick last-minute changes so it seems like a new design."
Essentially, presentation wins and Tekken 7 is failing at that.
Presentation is the reason Mortal Kombat X is the best selling in the series. It still had bad voice acting. It still had terrible netcode. It still had clunky animations. But it sold because it looked appealing and good.
The same is the case for SFV and I am confident it will sell really well.
With Tekken 7, though, the presentation is garbage, the marketing is trash, and the efforts in responding to fan aggravation with afore-mentioned issues is mostly non-existent or addressed in all the wrong ways (e.g. Murray/Harada on black characters, hyping "big" announcements that only pertain to the 2% that have access to arcades, etc.).
Presentation is the reason Mortal Kombat X is the best selling in the series. It still had bad voice acting. It still had terrible netcode. It still had clunky animations. But it sold because it looked appealing and good.
The same is the case for SFV and I am confident it will sell really well.
With Tekken 7, though, the presentation is garbage, the marketing is trash, and the efforts in responding to fan aggravation with afore-mentioned issues is mostly non-existent or addressed in all the wrong ways (e.g. Murray/Harada on black characters, hyping "big" announcements that only pertain to the 2% that have access to arcades, etc.).
2 key sentences to take away:
and
Gives me a good barometer of what to expect.
I definitely agree that Tekken is above and beyond any fighting game when it comes to representing a fighter's nationality. I mean... how in the world does this Afghani woman represent anything from that country??
BUT something that really should take precedence and influences the game in a significantly larger magnitude is how much respect the company gives its characters. When you allow these troll jokes of a character take center stage of the game it really ruins how everyone else looks. Turning Asuka and Lili into lesbian sex objects from street fighters battling for their family's honor and then showing legitimate characters like Bryan lose to them just makes the game look like a joke. Can say the same doubly so for LC... and this is before the customizations turn the whole ordeal into a carnival of stupid. Everyone in Mortal Kombat X is first and foremost a fighter, they even made their previous sex objects like Mileena and Sonya into something respectable. Tekken used to share this same sense of pride, but not anymore :/
Let's see if that's actually true and something happens to make the game look less lazy whenever T7BR gets announced or if it's just gonna be the same like when they went from TTT2 -> TTT2U.
MarkMan said:
and
MarkMan said:
Gives me a good barometer of what to expect.
I definitely agree that Tekken is above and beyond any fighting game when it comes to representing a fighter's nationality. I mean... how in the world does this Afghani woman represent anything from that country??
BUT something that really should take precedence and influences the game in a significantly larger magnitude is how much respect the company gives its characters. When you allow these troll jokes of a character take center stage of the game it really ruins how everyone else looks. Turning Asuka and Lili into lesbian sex objects from street fighters battling for their family's honor and then showing legitimate characters like Bryan lose to them just makes the game look like a joke. Can say the same doubly so for LC... and this is before the customizations turn the whole ordeal into a carnival of stupid. Everyone in Mortal Kombat X is first and foremost a fighter, they even made their previous sex objects like Mileena and Sonya into something respectable. Tekken used to share this same sense of pride, but not anymore :/
Let's see if that's actually true and something happens to make the game look less lazy whenever T7BR gets announced or if it's just gonna be the same like when they went from TTT2 -> TTT2U.
I simply don't think so. I'm not saying Bandai Namco's strategy is perfect, but to call it those things is absurd.
I also simply don't know what goes on in Bandai Namco Headquarters. It seems to me that Bamco makes moves based on their business strategy. We all know that Tekken 7 is probably operating on the "arcade first, console later" model. Considering this, doesn't it make sense that both the marketing and the presentation will ramp up significantly nearing the console release? But then again, what do I know.
Also, all this talk about "evolution of gameplay"...I'm not sure what to make of it. Like, what would you add to T7? What mechanic would you put into T7, to be the "new" mechanic, while still having the game feel like Tekken?
Tag 2 seemed to me like the pinnacle of what we regard as "Tekken". Nevetheless, TTT2 didn't sell as well we would've liked it too.
So, in response, perhaps we're getting a blend of Tekken 6 and TRevolution. A solo mainline Tekken game that is simultaneously more accessible and flashy. While it may not be the "best" Tekken ever (whatever that might mean), I think this could be the best solo Tekken and a Tekken that is more accessible to folks .
MikeBreezy92
Member
Call BS on those two especially MKX's Animations. But carry on.
Tekken Marketing has been bad because since T6 really...its had weird promotions to sell the game (Tapout? Snoop?) which more than likely didn't help sell the game at all and seemed like a waste of money imo. And what they're doing over here by bringing the game for 3 areas to play is sort of a tease. It was nice to play it at FR but that only made the wait worse. Honestly the worse thing you can do is announce a game world wide that only playable in spurts to everywhere but one part of the world. Then have them see what pretty much amounts to a complete product for years. For the people that don't keep up with the game? They move on and forget about it and due to shitty marketing they won't know its out just like TTT2. Like when I told people there was a TTT2 they didn't believe me. That's how bad it is.
I've made sooo many posts about this in this thread and the FGC Weekly threads in the past but they keep getting ignored.
But let's say the bare minimum while copying and pasting the Tag 2 movelists:
- New movement system that can allow for a much smoother animation rather than a jittery twitch rave we currently see in its presentation.
- Brand new gravity system that is much more presentable that can complement a new animation system applied on the character being juggled.
- Brand new wall-slump mechanics with specific variables affecting what the wall stun entails depending on what kind of move is done on the opponent
- New defensive options while your back is on the wall (or at least make the wall jump attack more useful)
- Re-introduce the different character types from TTT1 where the faster more nimble types of characters have 8-frame jabs but greater juggle potential & lower health while the heavier characters have a much more different potential. (Bonus points if they can even re-animate the grabs on the heavy characters like Virtua Fighter 5)
I have so many other ideas but would require drastic changes in everyone's movelists and gamestyles; but the stuff I mentioned above was the bare minimum I expected from a game like Tekken with it's sales potential entering into a new numbered sequel especially after a series of so many re-balances of the current system.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
Trust me, I pass on everything that is directed to me and give them visibility.
That's a dope list AAK. But I wanna challenge it a bit, for the purpose of fleshing it out. Regarding the first two points, how does one implement a gravity system in a way that animates different then T7/Tag 2? In other words, how might someone go about animating the air hit-juggle state in a 3D game?
Can't tell if it made much difference..unless it stopped stuff we haven't seen for good reason.
Here are some ideas:
- Jabs and other weak moves shouldn't re-float the enemy so high during a juggle, the enemy should fall maintaining the momentum since the amount of force being applied really isn't that much.
- Power hitting moves should impact the opponent in the proper way their rigid body is oriented. If Paul does a ws+2 and then does a death fist as a follow up the juggle, the juggle animations should be drastically different compared to if he did a death first right after a d/f+2. In the first instance, the opponent is juggled FDFA (Face Down Feet Away) so a deathfist will impact the skull. The second instance off a d/f+2 the opponent is FAFT (Face Up Feet Towards) so a death fist will be hitting their leg. The new system should have build in properties on each area of the body (legs, body, hands, head) on how they should animate depending on where they're impacted in the juggle and what orientation they're in. This will lead to a very new juggle system that requires adaptation.
This is one reason why Tekken 7's juggles look so much uglier than Tekken 6 and TTT2's. The tail-spin animation is copy and pasted regardless if the oppnenent is facing towards or away from you. It looks so damn ugly when a tail spin connects on an opponent when they're juggled from backturned. It makes no sense from a rigid body perspective either and is something I'd expect only from a budget game... not Tekken.
- As for the movement, have distinct animations for multiple backdashes. And when I say animations, i'm definitely talking in the plural sense. The game should have specific animations depending on how well or poorly the individual is inputting their backdash cancels. And since the lateral sidestepping/sidewalking cancels don't exist anymore they don't have to worry about that. And I feel while maintaining the exact same system as it is, and just changing the way it's animated and presented, the functionality shouldn't change either as long as the presentation is the only thing tinkered with.
Again, the overall theme of the change is to make the game much more presentable again. Blow the public away with the presentation and aesthetics like Namco did with Tekken 3. Tekken 3 and Metal Gear Solid both came out in 1998. Both of the teams involved in those games expanded exponentially to the point they are in now. Look at how much the Metal Gear Solid developers went out of their way to change the presentation of the game with each iteration while maintaining the core essence of stealth... and compare that with Namco. Honestly when Tekken 7 was first announced and the whole big shabang with them starting over from scratch with Unreal Engine 4 my expectations were in that magnitude of evolution.... and you can take a guess at how crushing it must have been to see that reveal trailer.
- Jabs and other weak moves shouldn't re-float the enemy so high during a juggle, the enemy should fall maintaining the momentum since the amount of force being applied really isn't that much.
- Power hitting moves should impact the opponent in the proper way their rigid body is oriented. If Paul does a ws+2 and then does a death fist as a follow up the juggle, the juggle animations should be drastically different compared to if he did a death first right after a d/f+2. In the first instance, the opponent is juggled FDFA (Face Down Feet Away) so a deathfist will impact the skull. The second instance off a d/f+2 the opponent is FAFT (Face Up Feet Towards) so a death fist will be hitting their leg. The new system should have build in properties on each area of the body (legs, body, hands, head) on how they should animate depending on where they're impacted in the juggle and what orientation they're in. This will lead to a very new juggle system that requires adaptation.
This is one reason why Tekken 7's juggles look so much uglier than Tekken 6 and TTT2's. The tail-spin animation is copy and pasted regardless if the oppnenent is facing towards or away from you. It looks so damn ugly when a tail spin connects on an opponent when they're juggled from backturned. It makes no sense from a rigid body perspective either and is something I'd expect only from a budget game... not Tekken.
- As for the movement, have distinct animations for multiple backdashes. And when I say animations, i'm definitely talking in the plural sense. The game should have specific animations depending on how well or poorly the individual is inputting their backdash cancels. And since the lateral sidestepping/sidewalking cancels don't exist anymore they don't have to worry about that. And I feel while maintaining the exact same system as it is, and just changing the way it's animated and presented, the functionality shouldn't change either as long as the presentation is the only thing tinkered with.
Again, the overall theme of the change is to make the game much more presentable again. Blow the public away with the presentation and aesthetics like Namco did with Tekken 3. Tekken 3 and Metal Gear Solid both came out in 1998. Both of the teams involved in those games expanded exponentially to the point they are in now. Look at how much the Metal Gear Solid developers went out of their way to change the presentation of the game with each iteration while maintaining the core essence of stealth... and compare that with Namco. Honestly when Tekken 7 was first announced and the whole big shabang with them starting over from scratch with Unreal Engine 4 my expectations were in that magnitude of evolution.... and you can take a guess at how crushing it must have been to see that reveal trailer.
The problem with slow improvements is that folks who aren't constantly following the game's development don't catch on. Their impression of the game is largely from it's initially revealed form. You have to make a big splash to get attention, even if you could move the same amount of water bit by bit.
My lasting hope is that they saw that their previous announcement style (or even the direction they were pushing things in) wasn't really working so well, and so they're playing things close to the chest until they can make that aforementioned big splash. Like turn the whole thing on it's head, move in a completely new direction, at least with presentation, like we've been talking about.
But maybe I'm being unrealistic.
Cards to chest and waiting for a big splash seems much less likely since the game is playable in arcade already and has been for months.
What could they possibly bring other than new guys at this stage to really shake things up? Not much. That is a dream left for their next game and not Tekken 7 unfortunately.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
By the time people started reacting to T7 (Final Round time frame), the game was already done as far as system/content goes. There's an eventual console release and further content. Harada-san and Michael Murray are always reading the tweets when they can too.
But just keep in mind. You can be vocal, but at the end of the day they'll make the game as they see fit. I've asked/suggested for things many times before and none of them have seen the light of day. Just my two cents.
Because they haven't been implemented or cos they will be in the future?
If it's the first one then...it is really sad.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
What I stated was just my take and what I know. I'm not answering specific development questions/requests in here as I'm not in any position to do so.
Regardless. Hope NeoGAF TEKKEN fans are doing well
What I stated was just my take and what I know. I'm not answering specific development questions/requests in here as I'm not in any position to do so.
Regardless. Hope NeoGAF TEKKEN fans are doing well
Thanks for what you've done already man.
Where the hell is Mokujin tho? Don't tell me they'll ditch him completely.
Doing good but better knowing he will be in. Doesn't even need a slot.
Regardless. Hope NeoGAF TEKKEN fans are doing well
I haven't even played Tekken in months. Busy busy busy. More than willing to discuss the heckubus out of it though.
Sadly... I'm in the US (far southwestern corner at that), on a wireless connection (a reasonably fast one, but... wireless).
And moreover, I meant it when I said "busy busy busy". I haven't played Tekken in months and I haven't played any video games since Saturday. My TV and consoles aren't even plugged in. Won't have time to do much of anything until the weekend at the soonest.
Also, I'm not very good after a fine oiling, let alone when I'm rusty. There's a reason I don't often have much to say about the deeper gameplay side of Tekken. Not that that's a reason not to play online at all. It's just... an invisible hand, gently guiding me away from the idea.
That US-ness sucks for us. Hope T7 is better and most of this is fixed.
I play Mokujin so we will be even if you use your mains. I ain't that good either and haven't improved much since T5
Our connections are the true walls in the future tho.
GrayFoxPL
Member
also
One last tekken request.
The most important one.
First 3 make sense tbh. Wait, not launch throw but command gs typethrow. D/S entry after db4 would be nice.
People don't realize Lars has only one safe normal hit launcher. Generally Lars is unsafe, especially his lows, it's just the way he's animated that's messing with people's minds. Pokes are good.
They should take out his uf+3 and buff the rest. Besides uf3 is death if someone learned to mash mid launcher blocking it.
In T7 he lost his tierness anyway and df+2 is out.
So yeah buff lars.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Yeah, with the same old same old costumes and the fugleh annoying customizations layered on top ... good job pissing away all the work that goes into the animations and models and making it look as bad as possible, i guess ;/
Super ultra disagree. With all the angry barechested dudes present, we need MORE pretty female characters, not less. Yeah, i'd prefer if they were 20-30 instead of 15 too. I want my Jun or Zafina or Kunimitsu. Or new characters like them.
But fat old ladies or whatever? Hell naw. I'd rather have 15 more schoolgirls.
SquirrelSoup
Member
I'm ready for Love Live x Im@s x Tekken. =P
You're saying MKX animations aren't clunky? Lol
Tekken has some old ass animations and they still trash on MK.
I completely agree with you here.I definitely agree that Tekken is above and beyond any fighting game when it comes to representing a fighter's nationality. I mean... how in the world does this Afghani woman represent anything from that country??
BUT something that really should take precedence and influences the game in a significantly larger magnitude is how much respect the company gives its characters. When you allow these troll jokes of a character take center stage of the game it really ruins how everyone else looks. Turning Asuka and Lili into lesbian sex objects from street fighters battling for their family's honor and then showing legitimate characters like Bryan lose to them just makes the game look like a joke. Can say the same doubly so for LC... and this is before the customizations turn the whole ordeal into a carnival of stupid. Everyone in Mortal Kombat X is first and foremost a fighter, they even made their previous sex objects like Mileena and Sonya into something respectable. Tekken used to share this same sense of pride, but not anymore :/
It is not absurd at all to call the marketing and presentation garbage.
When I see recycled customs, bad designs, and clipping everywhere, then yes that is bad presentation. If you want to look at a game with amazing presentation, look at Tekken 4. Tekken 7 is the complete opposite of that.
The marketing is nonexistent and when they try to market or speak about the game, they say and do things that are counter productive. This goes back to comments made that just piss people off even further (on black characters, on "Capcoms turn," on "big news," etc).
We all know they are working on an arcade to console cycle, but it's 2015 and a globalized world. You can't completely cater to 5% of your fanbase for 2 years and ignore the remaining 95% like they don't exist.
Read AAKs comments on what changes they can make.
Thanks MarkMan.
We've had our disagreements over this in the past.
As I said, outside of Chloe's bad design, I don't individually have a problem with these characters on most levels. I even use Alisa and Lili sometimes. But when there's a surplus of them and they represent majority chunk of the female roster, then I have an issue.
The male roster is extremely diverse compared to the female roster. We have old (Heihachi), mid-aged (Feng), young (Jin), loud sadistic cyborg (Bryan), silent sadistic (Dragunov), whatever Yoshimitsu is, etc.
I want that same type of diversity in the female cast. You have male robots that don't speak (Gigas, Jack) and dont fall in line with specific personalities of other characters. But then you have a female robot that is very talkative and completely falls in line with the underage schoolgirl group personality wise.
Even if we assume all the male characters are the same archtype, you're using that as a justification to have a homogenous female roster as well?
SquirrelSoup
Member
I simply don't agree at all that the current female part of the roster is as homogenous as you claim, or that the male part of it is as diverse. You lump Lili and Asuka and Xiaoyu and Alisa together because of.. i dunno, you laser focus on some kinda generic personality traits like the whole cast has which apparently makes them all the same or whatever. While i don't feel they're similar. Lili is nothing like Xiaoyu. Xiaoyu is nothing like Alisa.
Meanwhile the generic 20-something-years-old <insert national martial art> dudes and the Mishima's keep piling up but that's okay i guess.
But honestly i have more of a problem with you going "This is (objectively) BAD and INTOLERABLE and AN ANNOYING TREND." when what you really mean is just "I don't like these characters they're adding. I want more of those other characters. "
And that's a fine opinion. I don't like Gigas or Jack much myself. I'll never play them. Would rather see some other kinds of characters. But i'm happy for people that like big body characters, that there's someone for them to play. If the roster was 39 Jacks i'd duck out, yeah. You should duck out when it's 39 schoolgirls. It's not though. Not even close.
Meanwhile the generic 20-something-years-old <insert national martial art> dudes and the Mishima's keep piling up but that's okay i guess.
But honestly i have more of a problem with you going "This is (objectively) BAD and INTOLERABLE and AN ANNOYING TREND." when what you really mean is just "I don't like these characters they're adding. I want more of those other characters. "
And that's a fine opinion. I don't like Gigas or Jack much myself. I'll never play them. Would rather see some other kinds of characters. But i'm happy for people that like big body characters, that there's someone for them to play. If the roster was 39 Jacks i'd duck out, yeah. You should duck out when it's 39 schoolgirls. It's not though. Not even close.
Sayah's claim about the females being homogenous is very accurate:
Exact same body type, proportions, hip size, muscle tone, bone structure, everything. Tekken really isn't any different from DOA at this point in that regard. That's a HUUUUGE discrepency compared to the male cast where you can have guys with a small build like Wang to hulking masses like Marduk/King/Miguel all the way to fatter guys like Ganryu mixed with a range of standard sizes from the skinnier style of Hwoarang/Law to the more beefy Jin/Pau.l Women can also come in a huge variety of sizes.
No one is trying to take away your waifu's. But what about the other various figures women can embody? One of the best female wrestlers was Awesome Kong, and this was her body type:
And how about the age? Your post talks about the Mishima's like Kazuya who is in his 50's along with other characters like Paul and Marshall Law in that same age group, what about women too? Here's a woman in her mid-30's who's still active in the MMA circuit:
And even if you only wanted lolita-faced super-model perfect skinned petite females, what's wrong with having some with a defined muscle tone? This is a fighting game after all:
The representation of Women in this series definitely leaves a lot to be desired and Sayah is very justified IMO for bringing it up. You even named Teppu in a post earlier commending it, but Tekken's delivery is a massive far cry from Teppu where the woman have a huge range of body types, heights, age, muscle mass. Something Tekken is failing at miserably.
Nina/Christie's problem was that her models were disproportional. No one's saying you can't have linebacker shoulders, but make the rest of the body proportional. Not saying it isn't possible in a real human being, but as it was in TTT2 it looked kinda dumb. Dumb in the same sense how Gigas has arms that tower over the size of his legs while his head is so diminutive.
Sayah's claim about the females being homogenous is very accurate:
Exact same body type, proportions, hip size, muscle tone, bone structure, everything. Tekken really isn't any different from DOA at this point in that regard. That's a HUUUUGE discrepency compared to the male cast where you can have guys with a small build like Wang to hulking masses like Marduk/King/Miguel all the way to fatter guys like Ganryu mixed with a range of standard sizes from the skinnier style of Hwoarang/Law to the more beefy Jin/Pau.l Women can also come in a huge variety of sizes.
No one is trying to take away your waifu's. But what about the other various figures women can embody? One of the best female wrestlers was Awesome Kong, and this was her body type:
And how about the age? Your post talks about the Mishima's like Kazuya who is in his 50's along with other characters like Paul and Marshall Law in that same age group, what about women too? Here's a woman in her mid-30's who's still active in the MMA circuit:
And even if you only wanted lolita-faced super-model perfect skinned petite females, what's wrong with having some with a defined muscle tone? This is a fighting game after all:
The representation of Women in this series definitely leaves a lot to be desired and Sayah is very justified IMO for bringing it up. You even named Teppu in a post earlier commending it, but Tekken's delivery is a massive far cry from Teppu where the woman have a huge range of body types, heights, age, muscle mass. Something Tekken is failing at miserably.
A+ post
SquirrelSoup
Member
I don't agree. Yeah, there's more variety in the male side. It's much larger too, sure makes that much easier. But in no way, shape or form can Law be called 'skinny'. He's ripped as feck. It goes from ripped to huge bulky muscle to ridiculous stupid bulky muscle and that's about it. I could do with an actually slim guy.
Age is the same. Kazuya in his 50s? Sure could have fooled me. He looks nothing like a guy in his 50s. Guys only come in three age flavors in Tekken: 'non-descript 30-something', 'probably younger, i guess 20-25', and 'old and grey'.
The male side of the roster is -twice- the size of the female side. It should be having twice the variety. I don't think it does. It has more outliers because it has -room- for more outliers.
Kazumi does not look like Katarina, who does not look like Lili, who does not look like Xiaoyu, who does not look like Josie, who does not look like Leo. Saying those all have 'Exact same body type, proportions, hip size, muscle tone, bone structure, everything. ', what are you even talking about? Really? They obviously don't.
They outright are though. Saying those characters are BAD, INTOLERABLE and whatnot and wanting that feedback forwarded to Harada.
It does and he is. Add 9 more female characters for a nice 50/50 split and have older and thicker and blacker and more muscled ones in there. I'd be thrilled.
I support wanting more variety. Saying 'design A is garbage, i want design B instead' is not about variety at all. It is about preference. Trying to sell your preference as some kinda swell push for equal representation while shitting on other people's preferences is bullshit.
I want a 30 year-old ripped MMA female character in there as much as anyone. Hell, i want two of them with different builds and ages and styles and a rangy European judo-chick on top of that. But that's not what the earlier posts are saying. It's saying, "Get these garbage schoolgirls out of here, they're BAD, and Namco sure went down the shitter design-wise." instead of "I'd like a character like this and this better and i want more variety, please add something like that IN ADDITION TO these couple schoolgirls. "
I didn't say "skinny" I said "skinnier" when making a comparison to the much larger characters in the game. And since he is based off Bruce Lee who is also ripped beyond imagination that character is also considered "skinnier" than the typical build you see in Tekken.
Okay sure, you mentioned 3 flavors, how about making the female cast get 3 flavors too rather than the same one?
I don't understand why size of roster exempts the females from having more variation? Look at Virtua Fighter, Vanessa has an extremely obvious different body type compared to Sarah who's actually massive height wise towering over so many of the male cast. Pai, Aoi, and Eileen I can agree have the typical supermodel body type, but it's still a far better improvement over Tekken right now.
Obviously? Really? Take anyone and present this to them:
Do you think they'll say those are all different body types? It's clearly the same muscle mass, body proportion, lean percentage, bone structure. If there's anyone else that can explain to me how it isn't I'd gladly listen to an explanation.
You're wrong though, this is specifically what Sayah is saying:
He's clearly saying Namco has gone into the deep end into this one niche of a cast of character blatantly catering only to otaku's. He also mentions he doesn't have a problem with them in isolation, just when they take over.
- Status