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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"

DEATH™

Member
Sure, they can have that attitude and all... but I suppose KTA shouldn't be surprised when Tekken is no longer going to be part of main tournaments just like Virtua Fighter. It really does say something when Soul Calibur V has double the amount of entrants than TTT2.



Mentioning T5 as a comparison with T7 goes kinda against your argument don't you think? Tekken was HUGE in that era. Everybody played it. Viscant, Ricky Ortiz, Sanford Kelly, Justin Wong, you name it. I remember the EVO2004 DVD had the most amount of matches dedicated to T5.
And yeah T7's airbound-tailspin is sooo much more powerful than T6's bound I agree with you there... BUT the inclusion of Armor moves being a one-size fits many solution to so many things in Tekken's offense (along with the fact that many of them are safe for a bunch of characters) & the neutered down okizeme is what new players will surely eat up. That's a significantly lower amount of information to process yet still lead to a lot gratification.

But regardless when looking to the future, TTT2 isn't compelling enough for people to support much to my dismay... So I can't really hate on Namco for going against my wishes for the future of the series. I should just be grateful I ended up getting something like TTT2 when all is said and done.

1. Nah it's not about that lol... There is literally no NEC promotion at KTA.
And yeah, there are some stuff about Big E that's floating around and it's more FGC related than Tekken-Exclusive.
I do not know it nor want to know it, so ask the FGC guys and gals.

But yeah, at Strongstyle, I finally confirmed it, not only for myself but it became a collective mindset. Tekken players cannot go to every tournament popping out due to financial/work/life reasons, so collectively, they will pick out the few tournaments that they can go into.

2. Tekken was huge in that time for a number of reasons. First, there's almost ZERO competition on that time. Those guys you mentioned? There is no new street fighter at that time. Second, Tekken 5 is considered the "back to the roots" game just like SF4 of this era, after a longer than usual break and coming off the considered black sheep of the series. Guess what, it's based on what made Tag1 awesome aside the tag mechanics. All the classic chars were there (even T3/Tag1 Jin was back as DJ and I thought it will never happen), and movement is back to being good. So yeah, you can say the same thing with Aris playing Injustice because it's the hot thing. Players do that all the time.

The problem with Tekken now is it's not the big fish in the small pond anymore. FGs are popping out everywhere. Capcom games are the big guys now. DOA 5 is closing to become a competition to tekken console wise. I even think GGXrd outclasses Tekken 7 in the art department (GG's char designs are unique and awesome already, putting that designs in the awesome 3D engine makes it better).

That also considering Tekken 7 cannot rely on nostalgia anymore. They are also cutting chars that people play and also add to the overall feel of the game. And that's talking about the casual side only. I am seriously considering the possibilities of how the ultras will work in a competitive match and I can use it like a timely yolo hopkick, and trust me, the people who think they are better than what they are, and using Tag2 as an excuse, will still get blown over in Tekken 7, and guess what, they gonna complain... They are complaining in T5, and now, they got a bigger mouthpiece with social media around and other game to fall back to...

I don't know, I personally find the tag version of Tekken games wayyy more superior than the solo games. Once you go tag, solo is extremely boring. Hopefully, TxS will have tag but I highly doubt it. I'm pretty sure that they'll continue to have TTT2 side by side with T7 when it comes to tournaments, that game is just too damn fun with a ton of depth.

I echo this. Tag games are awesome. Even back home, TTT1 is still played even when T5 is out. Controlling two chars is always awesome.

Yeah. I mean I hope T7 kicks everyone's asses but it might suck as well. And Tag2 is here and it's insane how this game didn't fell apart with all the shit it does. Of course ppl found glitches, but kinda I don't see them exploited so I guess most ppl don't give a shit about them.

Bob WS 1 glitch is a hard exploit. The only point of it using is when you get a launch on a full bar opponent, because it's way more efficient to do your regular max combos with Bob after a couple of pokes.
 

Sayah

Member
Eeeeh....After TTT2, SFXTK, and UMvC3.....I'm just so tired of tag games. I really am looking forward to having that 1v1 feeling back without having all these other factors in the way (i.e. raw tag to hopkick, raw tag to running slide kick, tag assault shenanigans). Just back to 1v1 grounded, IN YO FACE, fighting. You can't tag crash your way out of this biznitch.
Yeah. I mean I hope T7 kicks everyone's asses but it might suck as well. And Tag2 is here and it's insane how this game didn't fell apart with all the shit it does. Of course ppl found glitches, but kinda I don't see them exploited so I guess most ppl don't give a shit about them.

The only "worrying" thing discovered so far is the Bob infinite that could impact the balance significantly. And even then, I don't seem to have seen any big concern or moaning about it since StrongStyle ended so I'm assuming it wasn't a big factor in the matches played.

DEATH™;141635653 said:
Trust me guys, it's not as bad... I started way awful.

If you guys are interested, I have resources that I can share to help you guys out when starting to draw. Just hit me up via PM.

I am interested but I know I won't have the time to invest in something like this for awhile.

If you can do flapping butterfly with Nina in TR, she becomes the strongest char in that game. She's also the evidence of Bound not being the main problem of Tekken. She can do just as long juggles, wall carry, and pretty much kill you even without bound. If you hear rumors about Nina being redesigned for T7, this is the reason why.

This also make me more pessimistic about T7's success. No matter what, competitive players will always find something to give them a competitive edge, and casuals will complain about it, and then the competitive players will complain about a new mechanic that encourages YOLO tactics done by random people (and I can totally see this in T7). It was the case in T5, and it's still the case until right now...
I'll have to test flapping butterfly in TR to see if I can continuously do it. Interesting........

Yeah, it's time for this game to go.
5qWL5Ao.png
5qWL5Ao.png
5qWL5Ao.png


7xIgFYu.gif

The person getting the beatdown should have just stayed on the ground. Could have avoided all of this, lol.
 

av2k

Member
So with DOA confirmed going PC, should we expect the same treatment with T7 now?

I don't think it's confirmed but I believe most outlets were saying it was a high probability of going to PC. What is 100% expected however, is that there will be nude mods for DOA.
 

Pachimari

Member
So with DOA confirmed going PC, should we expect the same treatment with T7 now?
I believe their gonna do it. Tekken need as broad a market as it can get, even if it's strong at the arcades. And now that it's easier than ever to make it compatible for PC, they gotta realize it would be a healthy move.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
I believe their gonna do it. Tekken need as broad a market as it can get, even if it's strong at the arcades. And now that it's easier than ever to make it compatible for PC, they gotta realize it would be a healthy move.

Depends how many people will buy it versus those who torrent it.

Anyway I just found out Harada was totally different kind of badass before Tekken.

Check it out.

WellmadeNeatAnole.gif


HealthyMagnificentDuckbillcat.gif


SilentHarmoniousConure.gif


IncompleteCalculatingCoypu.gif


Damn...I better stop asking him for that TxSF.

:D
 

AAK

Member
DEATH™;141671911 said:
1. Nah it's not about that lol... There is literally no NEC promotion at KTA.
And yeah, there are some stuff about Big E that's floating around and it's more FGC related than Tekken-Exclusive.
I do not know it nor want to know it, so ask the FGC guys and gals.

Last time I saw Big E post on KTA he was telling all of Atlanta that he'd pay for their entry and their hotel if they come to NEC. I don't know what he did to piss Tekken players off but every other game is getting a ton of support and Big E was the organizer of Filthy Cup, so I don't remember any bad blood between Tekken players and Big E.

But yeah, at Strongstyle, I finally confirmed it, not only for myself but it became a collective mindset. Tekken players cannot go to every tournament popping out due to financial/work/life reasons, so collectively, they will pick out the few tournaments that they can go into.

Sure, that's fair and all... but then you should also apply that same logic to KOF players, Injustice Players, and even Anime players. Yet they still love their game enough to support it.[/quote]

2. Tekken was huge in that time for a number of reasons. First, there's almost ZERO competition on that time. Those guys you mentioned? There is no new street fighter at that time. Second, Tekken 5 is considered the "back to the roots" game just like SF4 of this era, after a longer than usual break and coming off the considered black sheep of the series. Guess what, it's based on what made Tag1 awesome aside the tag mechanics. All the classic chars were there (even T3/Tag1 Jin was back as DJ and I thought it will never happen), and movement is back to being good. So yeah, you can say the same thing with Aris playing Injustice because it's the hot thing. Players do that all the time.

So isn't this reinforcing the T7 will be more popular than TTT2 argument? Just like how T5 got rid of all the intricacies of T4, T7 is getting rid of everything TTT2 added and then some.

That also considering Tekken 7 cannot rely on nostalgia anymore. They are also cutting chars that people play and also add to the overall feel of the game. And that's talking about the casual side only. I am seriously considering the possibilities of how the ultras will work in a competitive match and I can use it like a timely yolo hopkick, and trust me, the people who think they are better than what they are, and using Tag2 as an excuse, will still get blown over in Tekken 7, and guess what, they gonna complain... They are complaining in T5, and now, they got a bigger mouthpiece with social media around and other game to fall back to...

To be honest the amount of complaints isn't a good metric. Tekken Zaibatsu had soooo many more people bitching about Tekken 5 and Tekken 6 than what I'm seeing in TTT2. But still, people represented the game... just something about TTT2 that made them say screw it.

And NEC had 120+ people 2 years ago for Tekken.... and it had nobody from the west coast or south present. It was all east coast players and that shows that the Tekken community in the east coast doesn't have to travel, it's in their backyard... and yet they still don't care enough to play.
 

Sayah

Member
Depends how many people will buy it versus those who torrent it.

Is that seriously young Harada?
Anyway, Tekken is very likely coming to PC. In fact, it would be dumb not to have it on PC.

People are worried about thieves torrenting on PC but how different is that from the people that pirated TTT2? Don't know why PC is singled out when it comes to pirating when people are also doing it for 360 games.

I wish there was a way developers could protect their content from being stolen but alas..........
 

DEATH™

Member
Last time I saw Big E post on KTA he was telling all of Atlanta that he'd pay for their entry and their hotel if they come to NEC. I don't know what he did to piss Tekken players off but every other game is getting a ton of support and Big E was the organizer of Filthy Cup, so I don't remember any bad blood between Tekken players and Big E.



Sure, that's fair and all... but then you should also apply that same logic to KOF players, Injustice Players, and even Anime players. Yet they still love their game enough to support it.



So isn't this reinforcing the T7 will be more popular than TTT2 argument? Just like how T5 got rid of all the intricacies of T4, T7 is getting rid of everything TTT2 added and then some.



To be honest the amount of complaints isn't a good metric. Tekken Zaibatsu had soooo many more people bitching about Tekken 5 and Tekken 6 than what I'm seeing in TTT2. But still, people represented the game... just something about TTT2 that made them say screw it.

And NEC had 120+ people 2 years ago for Tekken.... and it had nobody from the west coast or south present. It was all east coast players and that shows that the Tekken community in the east coast doesn't have to travel, it's in their backyard... and yet they still don't care enough to play.

1. Again, I dunno. I'm no part of FGC Illuminati or something.

2. Nope, totally different. T4 removed all the things Tag1 has good at (roster, BDC). T5 just brought it back plus refined how the wall works, that's why it's back to the roots. T7 is just adding another layer on the standing game (armor moves/focus attack is something I really wanted over invincibles) and it's only getting rid of oki (which is a big step down already. I do not think that nerfing a mechanic that made the game fun in the first place should be taken away).

Oki and ultras will determine how the game get accepted. Not to mention nerfing of movement in favor of backwalk. It still has the same things that Tag 2 has, like crush moves, and to add to that, people are also awarded the ultimate crush move in 1/4 lifebar, which is still pretty large. Now people who are infuriated with crush moves that just blames Tag 2 will not be happy when they realize this. They will also not be happy when Tag Assault didn't really go away and just replaced by Tailspin/Wallsplat Ultra. Stop wondering when they get sick of seeing the same darn ultra animation all the time.

What I'm saying is, do not think that T7 will be the saviour of the franchise.

3. That's exactly my point. those little complaints that seems to be small can affect the overall perception of the game by outsiders looking in. And the problem is, those small things can be amplified just because it's the internet. Look, you just need a guy like Blood Red to stir up hate on Tag 2 on KTA and you got a bunch of scrubs believing and following his reason. Small ounces of negativity easily spreads.

4. Seriously, I do not know. What I only know is not everyone can go to a tourney, and please respect that. I cannot speak for them but at least I can speak for myself, please do not even make it like an obligation for the tekken community to support each tourney. In fact, be glad that people are still finding the time to even go to tourneys, despite the circumstances. Seeing people's situations and experienced the same struggles myself, I can fully understand why it's like this.

(Promise I'll tell things with my strongstyle experience when the time comes. I think I already disclosed some of it on KTA but eh...)
 
DEATH™;141635653 said:
Trust me guys, it's not as bad... I started way awful.

If you guys are interested, I have resources that I can share to help you guys out when starting to draw. Just hit me up via PM.



Yeah please do post them. Also about the artstyle, I fully understand. I want my art to be semi-anime yet semi realistic. But the way people teach is going to gear with fine arts/traditional realistic. Not to mention there is barely any digital painting help outside some unstructured small tutorials out there. My digital art is awful compared to my pencil sketches....




Yeah, I am shooting for a cartoony, yet somewhat realistic style that is distinctive also. I think I am better with pencil as well. Ok, I haven't drawn in awhile and I am trying to improve. Go easy on me, they aren't perfect.


A few of my cartoon characters:


cyberninja_by_rhazer777-d81eyrp.jpg

rhazer_by_rhazer777-d81exm7.jpg

jason_by_rhazer777-d81exqm.jpg

myst3_by_rhazer777-d81eycb.jpg

lee2_by_rhazer777-d81exie.jpg



I got many more, but these a just a few. I am working on coloring them now with lowly colored pencils because I cannot use my newly purchased software due to my last computer messing up. I do not have a disc drive on my new one, so I either have to repurchase digital versions of the software or just buy a disc drive add-on. Later I guess.
 
That is true the competition is absolutely garbage in TR. Hence why you refrain from adding any stats to even the odds. ;)



LOL with lag you can't! It just becomes a game of guessing who did the hopkick or who didn't... and in your case playing characters with no hopkicks... you're done haha. At least do some fast low crush move. Kazuya has u/f+3 which is safe as well. Abuse that.

And in other news... guess which game had the least amount of entrants for the biggest tournament of the east coast after Final Round?



KOF has more entrants than TTT2? Am I reading that correctly? I never thought I would see the day. Kind of perturbing. We will see if implementing those changes for T7 will draw in more people. Also, unless I missed something, what is the benefit of the tailspin vs the bound? Do they not serve the same purpose or are the tail spins more difficult to achieve?
 

DEATH™

Member
Raze, nice!

+ your tonework is really nice!
+ your can draw full figures along with backgrounds already.
+ you also have an idea about your characters already... I'm really jealous of that. I wish I can create my own chars or not atleast too diverted when I think of one.

- your posesare a bit stiff. Totally understandable. Can be fixed by drawing/planning your gesture.
- I dunno about the artstyle, but the facial features are waay too big. Can be fixed by practicing loomis method of drawing heads.

That is my critique so far since I really do not have a right to critique the other things lol. But yeah, don't take it as a bad thing. Cause I really wish that I would have some friend who will give me some advice/critique.

Also, Tailspin and bound purpose are the same, they are combo extenders, though how they work becomes totally different. Bound moves spike the opponent to the floor, hence opponent gets too close to you, but in exchange since its on the ground, it works on walls. It also break floors.

Tailspin is a aerial combo extender. Think devil jin ws 2. This will carry your opponent farther to you, hence provide good wall carry. But you cannot use this beside walls since opponent will get to wall slump quicker. It also doesn't break floors.

So basically, bound to tailspin's significant change is you cannot do a combo extension at the wall. Makes obnoxious combos with
Lars a bit nerfed.
 
DEATH™;141744010 said:
Raze, nice!

+ your tonework is really nice!
+ your can draw full figures along with backgrounds already.
+ you also have an idea about your characters already... I'm really jealous of that. I wish I can create my own chars or not atleast too diverted when I think of one.

- your posesare a bit stiff. Totally understandable. Can be fixed by drawing/planning your gesture.
- I dunno about the artstyle, but the facial features are waay too big. Can be fixed by practicing loomis method of drawing heads.

That is my critique so far since I really do not have a right to critique the other things lol. But yeah, don't take it as a bad thing. Cause I really wish that I would have some friend who will give me some advice/critique.

Also, Tailspin and bound purpose are the same, they are combo extenders, though how they work becomes totally different. Bound moves spike the opponent to the floor, hence opponent gets too close to you, but in exchange since its on the ground, it works on walls. It also break floors.

Tailspin is a aerial combo extender. Think devil jin ws 2. This will carry your opponent farther to you, hence provide good wall carry. But you cannot use this beside walls since opponent will get to wall slump quicker. It also doesn't break floors.

So basically, bound to tailspin's significant change is you cannot do a combo extension at the wall. Makes obnoxious combos with
Lars a bit nerfed.



Thanks man. I really appreciate that. I could definitely use some constructive criticism or critiquing since I just started drawing again. Good thing is, other people can identify or spot certain things or imperfections that I or someone else might not. Yeah, for some reason, I picked these pictures with the more boring poses instead of some others that had more interesting poses, but I am trying to improve on posing and accomplishing it in a rather quick manner. With the face features, I was going for a cartoony, exaggerated style in a sense, but now that you mention it some of the features are large lol. I will work on that. I stopped drawing for a few years and I am trying to get back into it and change up my style a little bit. I had approximately 40 characters before, but I toned it down to about 15-20 actually. Thinking of an original and intriguing storyline is also very challenging for me unfortunately. Ahh....maybe I need to watch more anime, movies and read some comic books haha.

Thanks for the Tekken tailspin information as well. That makes more sense then what I originally thought the tailspin move was. I hope Tekken 7 comes out sooner rather than later.
 

AAK

Member
DEATH™;141724423 said:
2. Nope, totally different. T4 removed all the things Tag1 has good at (roster, BDC). T5 just brought it back plus refined how the wall works, that's why it's back to the roots. T7 is just adding another layer on the standing game (armor moves/focus attack is something I really wanted over invincibles) and it's only getting rid of oki (which is a big step down already. I do not think that nerfing a mechanic that made the game fun in the first place should be taken away).

Oki and ultras will determine how the game get accepted. Not to mention nerfing of movement in favor of backwalk. It still has the same things that Tag 2 has, like crush moves, and to add to that, people are also awarded the ultimate crush move in 1/4 lifebar, which is still pretty large. Now people who are infuriated with crush moves that just blames Tag 2 will not be happy when they realize this. They will also not be happy when Tag Assault didn't really go away and just replaced by Tailspin/Wallsplat Ultra. Stop wondering when they get sick of seeing the same darn ultra animation all the time.

What I'm saying is, do not think that T7 will be the saviour of the franchise.

You're missing the biggest thing Armor moves bring to the game. In Tekken there are so many solutions out of a certain situation. In many times you can backdash away, or counterhit interrupt, sidestep/sidewalk, crouch to cause a whiff, among others. Armor moves bring a "one-size fits all" (except lows/throws) approach to taking care of all those things along with being safe for a huge amount of the cast. That makes things easier for the majority of the people. Add in the backwalk and the skill threshold to get a certain level of gratification in the game has been reduced considerably. And the neutered down oki just makes things even more forgiving for newbies.

The intention right now with T7 is just to somehow stay alive... and the only way to do that is to dumb the game down for the non-hardcores to get some gratification. Regardless T7 isn't much of a "savior" to me. It's more of like the last chance for Namco to try and relive the success of older Tekkens or else we say goodbye to the series forever (which after TTT2, I won't be mad about, since I struggle to see how you can ever get better than this).

3. That's exactly my point. those little complaints that seems to be small can affect the overall perception of the game by outsiders looking in. And the problem is, those small things can be amplified just because it's the internet. Look, you just need a guy like Blood Red to stir up hate on Tag 2 on KTA and you got a bunch of scrubs believing and following his reason. Small ounces of negativity easily spreads.

You could say the same thing about Wolfkrone bashing USF4 nonstop on facebook too. And he's someone who has a pretty huge following and 100x more relevance than bloodred. Yet despite his negativity people still support their game massively. For every problem the Tekken community has, every other game's community has the same things.

4. Seriously, I do not know. What I only know is not everyone can go to a tourney, and please respect that. I cannot speak for them but at least I can speak for myself, please do not even make it like an obligation for the tekken community to support each tourney. In fact, be glad that people are still finding the time to even go to tourneys, despite the circumstances. Seeing people's situations and experienced the same struggles myself, I can fully understand why it's like this.

It is true that it seems like I'm calling out individuals which isn't my intention, sorry. Yes, it's none of my business to tell someone where they should or shouldn't be spending their weekends. But I will just say this, NEC had around 8 months or preperation time from when the date was revealed. The KOF, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, Anime, etc. community members also have their jobs/families/responsibilities just like the Tekken players. The only difference is, is that the non-Tekken players find their game compelling enough to plan for the event and indulge within the game they love. It just so happens that Tekken no longer has the appeal to make people support their game the same way other communities do.

tl;dr the game is the reason, not the player.

And for fun, here is the true young Harada:

https://twitter.com/Kazenolegendz/status/540715525136216064/photo/1
 

sasuke_91

Member
@Rhazer Fusion: Very nice drawings! I tried drawing Manga a few years ago and I sucked. The hardest part for me was getting proportions right and making it seem like the character is standing in what I drew as the background. It always seemed like my character and the background were 2 different layers, with the character in front. It's something you got down really well.

I'm watching the BTC stream right now and I definitely want to go there next year! I've never been to Berlin anyway, so one weekend in Berlin and a tournament? Count me in!
The commentary is so awful, though. They're making racist jokes and are just really annoying.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Is that seriously young Harada?

They look the same! Of course.

Btw.

ibaakYzDL0ou63.jpg


Loool. Buuurn.


Anyway, Tekken is very likely coming to PC. In fact, it would be dumb not to have it on PC.

People are worried about thieves torrenting on PC but how different is that from the people that pirated TTT2? Don't know why PC is singled out when it comes to pirating when people are also doing it for 360 games.

I wish there was a way developers could protect their content from being stolen but alas..........

Don't know how it's now but generally consoles need hardware modifications for piracy, as far as I remember.
Apart of Saturn and Dreamcast.

Reason why piracy was, is and will be king on PC is that you don't have to bother with anything. So everyone can do this anytime and not be dedicated pirate like a console one.

This may not be felt like that in country like USA but Poland? After 1989 when we finally got out of communist shithole of doom and this huge economical boom started. Everything was pirated throughout the 90s. Not in like shady places, right there in normal stores. No one saw "originals" with their own eyes and if he did the price was insane, like first Playstation games cost 120-150$ and it was slow PAL version. I know I could buy only 1 game a year and a half. Did you guys play only Soul Blade for 1,5 year? I did.

East European and Latin Countries are very similar in that regard so I recon Gaffers from these parts of the world know what I'm talking about.

Things just changed throughout and post 2000 when people's financial situation got better, people liked getting brand original games, prices got normalized to "almost" real world equivalents. So it's kinda became "normal" though still tons of piracy exist. But that's consoles.

PC?

ibg6n3SZKBouyv.gif


Yeah, I am shooting for a cartoony, yet somewhat realistic style that is distinctive also. I think I am better with pencil as well. Ok, I haven't drawn in awhile and I am trying to improve. Go easy on me, they aren't perfect.


A few of my cartoon characters:



myst3_by_rhazer777-d81eycb.jpg

Julia Chang!

I like that art, reminds me of someones style, can't remember who.
 

DEATH™

Member
You're missing the biggest thing Armor moves bring to the game. In Tekken there are so many solutions out of a certain situation. In many times you can backdash away, or counterhit interrupt, sidestep/sidewalk, crouch to cause a whiff, among others. Armor moves bring a "one-size fits all" (except lows/throws) approach to taking care of all those things along with being safe for a huge amount of the cast. That makes things easier for the majority of the people. Add in the backwalk and the skill threshold to get a certain level of gratification in the game has been reduced considerably. And the neutered down oki just makes things even more forgiving for newbies.

The intention right now with T7 is just to somehow stay alive... and the only way to do that is to dumb the game down for the non-hardcores to get some gratification. Regardless T7 isn't much of a "savior" to me. It's more of like the last chance for Namco to try and relive the success of older Tekkens or else we say goodbye to the series forever (which after TTT2, I won't be mad about, since I struggle to see how you can ever get better than this).



You could say the same thing about Wolfkrone bashing USF4 nonstop on facebook too. And he's someone who has a pretty huge following and 100x more relevance than bloodred. Yet despite his negativity people still support their game massively. For every problem the Tekken community has, every other game's community has the same things.



It is true that it seems like I'm calling out individuals which isn't my intention, sorry. Yes, it's none of my business to tell someone where they should or shouldn't be spending their weekends. But I will just say this, NEC had around 8 months or preperation time from when the date was revealed. The KOF, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, Anime, etc. community members also have their jobs/families/responsibilities just like the Tekken players. The only difference is, is that the non-Tekken players find their game compelling enough to plan for the event and indulge within the game they love. It just so happens that Tekken no longer has the appeal to make people support their game the same way other communities do.

tl;dr the game is the reason, not the player.

And for fun, here is the true young Harada:

https://twitter.com/Kazenolegendz/status/540715525136216064/photo/1

1. Yes, I knew that. Aside oki nerf (The same newbies who complained about oki are now seeing how it's awesome due to King hehehe), Armor Moves and Backwalk are welcome additions. I expressed somewhere else that I think with armor moves, you do not need character cuts because it really helps people out. And as long as cancel-style movement doesn't get completely nerfed to a point that backwalk is the preferred movement of choice, then people are good.

2. Yeah I'm buying that. I'm just trying to temper expectations of this game being drastically different and it will become the massive success. In the end, it's still Tekken, a game that takes out the bipolar out of you :p

3. This is the thing though... It didn't even cross my mind that NEC is coming. People are prepping on KiT. I cannot blame them, because most of the "majors" end up becoming a glorified local. Why spend a money to drive and a weekend too to get an experience that you already get by having a darn gathering at your house every given time? Bronson said it best, and I discuss these stuff with some peeps at Strongstyle. If it isn't KiT, FR, Evo or Strongstyle, you can skip it.
 

AAK

Member
Why is Ryu and Chun Li still wearing the same stuff since SF2!!!! UGgghhh invest in some new art NAMCO/CAPCOM!!! Anyways, it'll be a long time till that release, dunno a drive to play 2D fighters will reignite or not when it releases.

DEATH™;141807787 said:
This is the thing though... It didn't even cross my mind that NEC is coming. People are prepping on KiT. I cannot blame them, because most of the "majors" end up becoming a glorified local. Why spend a money to drive and a weekend too to get an experience that you already get by having a darn gathering at your house every given time?

This is definitely untrue. As being someone that desperately tries to get gathers with other people in my city, it's a nightmare to get a consistent time where we can meet each other for games. And besides that, the spectacle of a tournament is on a completely different stratosphere of a random gather. The amount of stations + space at a gather is extremely limited while a tournament has multiple setups with ample space for spectating and playing.

And let's say for argument's sake that you live in a place that can still provide all of the above, NEC takes place in a centrlalized location where people from multiple states in the north-east can travel to conveniently. The biggest thing is how NEC gets announced early giving you months in advance to come to it. Also, NEC doesn't need Tekken players, if they don't want to show up they'll just enter the VF realm. Grand tournaments are an avenue for people to come and enjoy playing the game they love. If they don't show up... then I guess the that previous statement no longer applies. And it's epitomized with this statement:

Bronson said it best, and I discuss these stuff with some peeps at Strongstyle. If it isn't KiT, FR, Evo or Strongstyle, you can skip it.

This is the classic selfish mentality though. It's like someone inviting you to a potluck, and you have the thinking that "hmmm... I'm sure a lot of people will be giving a lot of nice grand dishes with a bunch of variety and such. I can take it easy just bring some soda I see on sale at Walmart". And in that case, the entire community has that mentality causing things to be ruined for the people that actually cared and were enthusiastic in the first place.

There are (or I should say were) TONS of Tekken fans in the east coast area in previous eras that would represent NEC proudly. Now, it's a ghost town while every other game maintained their love for the game.

That analogy is exactly what I'm talking about, Tekken players just aren't enthusiastic about their game anymore. Why do only Tekken players have this mentality and no other scene?
 
I don't see what the big deal is about Tekken and tournaments. Here's what we know about TTT2:

-It's two years old
-It did not entice many new players that are willing to compete in tournaments
-It did not draw in lapsed Tekken fans
-It did not invigorate many tournament veterans to travel

So yeah, sounds a lot like it's on the game and not the players. The current playerbase for tournament Tekken in America just isn't that large. We can't keep looking at all the big names who don't go to every single tournament, because there are no big names for any game that go to every tournament (except for a select few sponsored players). Newer, younger players make up the lifeblood of every tournament, with some veterans sprinkled in, some top players mixed in both groups, but all of them playing for a love of the game. TTT2 just wasn't that captivating to people of the higher level of play.

Will T7 fix that? Nobody knows for sure, and I'm leaning towards no, but it can. T7 will remove a lot of the headaches the tag mechanics bring and simplify the noob crusher oki game. String spam becomes less successful with armor moves. Less characters (possibly) means the game will be faster to learn. Legacy knowledge is still a huge issue, but if enough new people are tempted to play then that would alleviate the chance of running into veterans at every turn waiting to crush your confidence.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Will T7 fix that? Nobody knows for sure, and I'm leaning towards no, but it can. T7 will remove a lot of the headaches the tag mechanics bring and simplify the noob crusher oki game. String spam becomes less successful with armor moves. Less characters (possibly) means the game will be faster to learn. Legacy knowledge is still a huge issue, but if enough new people are tempted to play then that would alleviate the chance of running into veterans at every turn waiting to crush your confidence.

"Legacy knowledge" - that's a good term.

You know what would've helped? Something I hoped would be in T7 - rebuild/remade movesets.
Like OK leave the character defining moves like Kazuya's ewgf, hellsweep, and gut punch. From there you have so much room to build the rest of the character.
It would make for a fresh experience without ruining the essence of the character.

It would also helped the newcomers since they would be at the same starting point as veterans regarding the new moveset. Even if veterans will figure out stuff quicker, the noobies still have a shot at this making vets go: "Oh so that's what he does with this, clever!".

Of course in the end he who played Tekken more will have the edge but it shouldn't be viewed as injustice. It's a reward for dedication and time someone put into a game. Noobies become pros by doing this.

But instead there's what? What the character design meeting was like for Tekken 7?

- Ok, who's next?

- Kazuya

- Oh, he's already a complete character. Like Ryu of Tekken.

- But we gotta give him something new.

- Meh. OK. Give him Devil Jin's b+4.

- But it's not new.

- Shut the fuck up. You want new?! Give him that old coat he had in Tag1 intro. How's that for something new? Are we done?

- ...

- Next!
 
"Legacy knowledge" - that's a good term.

You know what would've helped? Something I hoped would be in T7 - rebuild/remade movesets.
Like OK leave the character defining moves like Kazuya's ewgf, hellsweep, and gut punch. Then you have so much room to build the rest of the character.
It would make for a fresh experience without ruining the essence of the character.

It would also helped the newcomers since they would be at the same starting point as veterans regarding the new moveset. Even if veterans will figure out stuff quicker, the noobies still have a shot at this making vets go: "Oh so that's what he does with this, clever!".

Of course in the end he who played Tekken more will have the edge but it shouldn't be viewed as injustice. It's a reward for dedication and time someone put into a game. Noobies become pros by doing this.

This is exactly what I think Tekken needs to level the playing field again, but it's such a radical and expensive change that you may as well be making a new franchise altogether.

Something we've all asked for....
 

DEATH™

Member
Why is Ryu and Chun Li still wearing the same stuff since SF2!!!! UGgghhh invest in some new art NAMCO/CAPCOM!!! Anyways, it'll be a long time till that release, dunno a drive to play 2D fighters will reignite or not when it releases.



This is definitely untrue. As being someone that desperately tries to get gathers with other people in my city, it's a nightmare to get a consistent time where we can meet each other for games. And besides that, the spectacle of a tournament is on a completely different stratosphere of a random gather. The amount of stations + space at a gather is extremely limited while a tournament has multiple setups with ample space for spectating and playing.

And let's say for argument's sake that you live in a place that can still provide all of the above, NEC takes place in a centrlalized location where people from multiple states in the north-east can travel to conveniently. The biggest thing is how NEC gets announced early giving you months in advance to come to it. Also, NEC doesn't need Tekken players, if they don't want to show up they'll just enter the VF realm. Grand tournaments are an avenue for people to come and enjoy playing the game they love. If they don't show up... then I guess the that previous statement no longer applies. And it's epitomized with this statement:



This is the classic selfish mentality though. It's like someone inviting you to a potluck, and you have the thinking that "hmmm... I'm sure a lot of people will be giving a lot of nice grand dishes with a bunch of variety and such. I can take it easy just bring some soda I see on sale at Walmart". And in that case, the entire community has that mentality causing things to be ruined for the people that actually cared and were enthusiastic in the first place.

There are (or I should say were) TONS of Tekken fans in the east coast area in previous eras that would represent NEC proudly. Now, it's a ghost town while every other game maintained their love for the game.

That analogy is exactly what I'm talking about, Tekken players just aren't enthusiastic about their game anymore. Why do only Tekken players have this mentality and no other scene?

1. Yes it's hard if it's an actual gathering, but easy if it's a "hey screw it I'm tired, let's play later tonight" thing.

And actually... here's the thing... Grand Tournament? How many Grand Tournaments around? People agree even the peeps of other games that tournaments are popping out of nowhere. Tournaments lose the novelty of "hey we gotta attend this" epic atmosphere because of how often it is. And not only that, there are many tournaments that cannot cater to all coming participants of all games, hence the quality of some tournaments became so low that it became "glorified locals".

Hence you have to be smart about it. That's why it is the consensus to attend the tournament you know people around decided that they will attend. It doesn't matter if you can plan to attend NEC yourself, but if other people couldn't afford to go to NEC and KiT on the same time, you decide if NEC is still worth it. It's not wrong.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean the game is awful that people are less passionate about it, it's quite the opposite. People want TTT2 to be presented in the best way possible. Just like Spooky said, Quality over Quantity. With this mentality, Strongstyle will not be as epic as an event, same with KiT and FR. You rather have those few but better organized and more epic events than have those spread out tourneys like in the early days of Tag 2 where everyone is so darn pessimistic about. Yes Tekken won't put out numbers, but we darn sure that if it's a Tekken centric event, you gonna have a freaking good time that it will make SF fans to freaking Tekken fans...
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
This is exactly what I think Tekken needs to level the playing field again, but it's such a radical and expensive change that you may as well be making a new franchise altogether.

Something we've all asked for....

I'd dig fresh new fighting game from Tekken + SoulCalibur teams. But a fighter, not some 3D arena slashy shooty game or Pokemon pamparampam.

Even if only with 10 characters, but with everything new.
 

Sayah

Member
@Rhazer. THat's some REALLY great art.
Don't know how it's now but generally consoles need hardware modifications for piracy, as far as I remember.
Apart of Saturn and Dreamcast.

Reason why piracy was, is and will be king on PC is that you don't have to bother with anything. So everyone can do this anytime and not be dedicated pirate like a console one.

This may not be felt like that in country like USA but Poland? After 1989 when we finally got out of communist shithole of doom and this huge economical boom started. Everything was pirated throughout the 90s. Not in like shady places, right there in normal stores. No one saw "originals" with their own eyes and if he did the price was insane, like first Playstation games cost 120-150$ and it was slow PAL version. I know I could buy only 1 game a year and a half. Did you guys play only Soul Blade for 1,5 year? I did.

East European and Latin Countries are very similar in that regard so I recon Gaffers from these parts of the world know what I'm talking about.

Things just changed throughout and post 2000 when people's financial situation got better, people liked getting brand original games, prices got normalized to "almost" real world equivalents. So it's kinda became "normal" though still tons of piracy exist. But that's consoles.

PC?

It's up to the hardware manufacturers to prevent piracy.
Piracy is very rampant on 360. I know because I went on a trip in South Asia and was seeing pirated copies of 360 games being sold for like $1 to $2. And as you described Poland in the past, this was being done in public shops right in front of everyone's eyes.

Meanwhile, Sony must have done something right with the PS3 to prevent piracy as PS3 games were selling for full price.

I don't see what the big deal is about Tekken and tournaments. Here's what we know about TTT2:

-It's two years old
-It did not entice many new players that are willing to compete in tournaments
-It did not draw in lapsed Tekken fans
-It did not invigorate many tournament veterans to travel

So yeah, sounds a lot like it's on the game and not the players. The current playerbase for tournament Tekken in America just isn't that large. We can't keep looking at all the big names who don't go to every single tournament, because there are no big names for any game that go to every tournament (except for a select few sponsored players). Newer, younger players make up the lifeblood of every tournament, with some veterans sprinkled in, some top players mixed in both groups, but all of them playing for a love of the game. TTT2 just wasn't that captivating to people of the higher level of play.

Will T7 fix that? Nobody knows for sure, and I'm leaning towards no, but it can. T7 will remove a lot of the headaches the tag mechanics bring and simplify the noob crusher oki game. String spam becomes less successful with armor moves. Less characters (possibly) means the game will be faster to learn. Legacy knowledge is still a huge issue, but if enough new people are tempted to play then that would alleviate the chance of running into veterans at every turn waiting to crush your confidence.

When I was young, a lot of people knew about Tekken and talked about Tekken. It was a household name.

Now? lol.

There's not enough new blood replacing the people that are growing up, living life, and moving on from Tekken.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
@Rhazer. THat's some REALLY great art.


It's up to the hardware manufacturers to prevent piracy.
Piracy is very rampant on 360. I know because I went on a trip in South Asia and was seeing pirated copies of 360 games being sold for like $1 to $2. And as you described Poland in the past, this was being done in public shops right in front of everyone's eyes.

Meanwhile, Sony must have done something right with the PS3 to prevent piracy as PS3 games were selling for full price.

That's what I was getting at. Hardware piracy prevention doesn't exist on PC that's why it's so bad.

Yeah, PS2 and PS3 took a pretty long time for pirates to fully crack and when they finally did, a lot of ppl didn't bother.

Making hardware 100% piracy proof is not possible. At best it slows down the process which is good, but best way imo is fighting piracy by lowering prices, adding value, promotions etc. This works.


There's not enough new blood replacing the people that are growing up, living life, and moving on from Tekken.

This is a crime and a sin.
 

Sayah

Member
That's what I was getting at. Hardware piracy prevention doesn't exist on PC that's why it's so bad.

Yeah, PS2 and PS3 took a pretty long time for pirates to fully crack and when they finally did, a lot of ppl didn't bother.

Making hardware 100% piracy proof is not possible. At best it slows down the process which is good, but best way imo is fighting piracy by lowering prices, adding value, promotions etc. This works.

That's true as well. Steam has done a good job with this, for instance. There are cheap, legal ways to get your games on PC. Always sales going on.

This is a crime and a sin.
lol
 

AAK

Member
Yeah, I echo the sentiments about how far Tekken has fallen in popularity. The NEC attendance is just a reminder for me. If you told someone 5-10 years ago that Dead or Alive, Anime, and KOF games would become more popular than Tekken they'd laugh hysterically at you.

Tekken needs new players... desperately.
 

AAK

Member
I think Namco has been extremely liberal with amount of porting they've been doing for the games they publish. I'm sure T7 will be no exception.
 
@Rhazer Fusion: Very nice drawings! I tried drawing Manga a few years ago and I sucked. The hardest part for me was getting proportions right and making it seem like the character is standing in what I drew as the background. It always seemed like my character and the background were 2 different layers, with the character in front. It's something you got down really well.



Thank you. Some of these are not complete yet, so I am still working on them. Do not give up on manga or drawing if you enjoy the hobby. Doesn't have to perfect and as long as you have fun drawing, that is all that matters.



Julia Chang!

I like that art, reminds me of someones style, can't remember who.


Haha, she has never got that comparison before actually. :) Thanks. Her name is Myst Miyashira, but I would consider being called Julia Chang a compliment also lol. Someone I know actually compared her to Chun Li before also. Not sure why. She is actually one of my first characters I created dating back to many, many years ago.


@Rhazer. THat's some REALLY great art.


Thank you. Still trying to master my technique to enhance them even further. Just wish I had more time to draw.
 

sasuke_91

Member
Thank you. Some of these are not complete yet, so I am still working on them. Do not give up on manga or drawing if you enjoy the hobby. Doesn't have to perfect and as long as you have fun drawing, that is all that matters.

I was into animating for some time, using Flipnote Studio on the DSi. I'm still waiting for Flipnote 3DS, which was supposed to come out August 2013, but yeah... Nintendo seems to forget us :/

Soo, after SF V PS4/PC cross platform Online announcement, do you think Tekken 7 will also support this (if it comes to PC)?
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Soo, after SF V PS4/PC cross platform Online announcement, do you think Tekken 7 will also support this (if it comes to PC)?

Kinda doubt it. They would have to match everything 1 to 1 network wise and unlike SFV Sony isn't co-developing Tekken 7.

Less then 7 hours to Tekken Anniversary stream.
 

AAK

Member
Also... I think I'm gonnna spend the next couple hours to make a Tekken 20th anniversary thread. Just want to know if anybody made one yet or is planning to?
 

Sayah

Member
Also... I think I'm gonnna spend the next couple hours to make a Tekken 20th anniversary thread. Just want to know if anybody made one yet or is planning to?

Ooooh. Make it. Tekken isn't a popular discussion topic on this forum though and the thread may die out with all the other major announcement going on right now. Be aware of that before you invest a lot of time and effort into making a very special thread. But do make this thread. :p

I would propose to help out but I'm stuck doing work.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Also... I think I'm gonnna spend the next couple hours to make a Tekken 20th anniversary thread. Just want to know if anybody made one yet or is planning to?

Should cover all the main games from T1-TTT2 and how each one built upon their predecessor.

Look forward to reading it.

EDIT: What are some good twitters to follow for Tekken fans? Besides Harada's account of course.
 
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