You don't want to replace a late gen Panasonic plasma with anything other than OLED. Trust me.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
You don't want to replace a late gen Panasonic plasma with anything other than OLED. Trust me.
clarknova156
Member
The only choice for you is OLED. Anything else will be a downgrade. I tried Samsung's KS8000 and it's just full of the usual issues LED TV's have. Pony up the bucks and get an OLED.
BradleyLove
Member
Ah, that's really not what wanted to read. Lol.
Thanks guys.
Edit: Hmmm, I can get the Sony KD-65A1 OLED for £3,090 instead of the retail £5,000... decisions, decisions.
Only some games support HDR. I only heard of this banding issue in PC mode recently, I'll have to check it.
Game mode in HDR doesn't lock the Color Gamut, contrary to normal Game mode.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
Ah ok, thx for the info/reply. Only review it was mentioned was the german review. Would be great if you or some other member report back ^_~
Since you are from the UK and had a Panny plasma I would look into the Panasonic OLED EZ952 when it launches later this month/early next month.
It's the one I'm eyeing right now to move my LG E6 into the bedroom.
I just bought the 65" Sony A1 OLED and I'm in love with it so far. The slight tilt is the only thing I didn't like but I fixed it with 2 books on the back legs to make it perfectly vertical.
I don't use it for gaming though so can't comment on that. I might try Persona 5 on it because input lag probably wouldn't effect the experience of that game too much (I'm used to playing on monitors with <5ms input latency so I'm really sensitive to it).
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Haha that is total rubbish! Do not listen to uniformed opinions on a TV they know nothing about! The local dimming on the 902 is up their with the very best! I had a 9th gen Kuro, and I'd choose the 902 every time! Forget contrast radio's as it's meaningless, the local dimming on this set can go toe to toe with an OLED, and destroy it with HDR.
There's guys on AV Forum who own an OLED 2016 and an 902, and prefer the 902 by some margin.
Don't be put off, you'll be amazed with the performance.
Speak to the guys on here.
https://www.avforums.com/threads/pa...-thread-part-2.2060098/page-182#post-25028071
Crazy people. The 902 is a good TV but it's not in the same league as a 2016 OLED.
Do some more reading then if those two posts have swayed you. There are a few high end flagship options from Samsung, Sony and Panasonic that would do wonders for you more than your Plasma and even exceed OLED in a lot of areas like color, HDR nit brightness, etc.
Yes the A1E OLED and C7 OLED are solid televisions. But look at some LED sets that have FALD and more zones, will provide you with deep blacks and yet outstanding brightness making your HDR look amazing, for maybe even half the cost.
BradleyLove
Member
The number one thing that puts me off LEDs when it comes to HDR is having to adjust the panel for when watching HDR content. It's my understanding this isn't required with OLED? I want HDR to "just work" yet I read about requiring to up the brightness/backlight/etc for HDR content.
Felix Lighter
Member
Thanks! I ordered the TV, now I just need to hope I don't have issues with the 25 ' HDMI cable I need to use to connect my PC with 4K HDR.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I beg to differ, unless you've owned one then you cannot really say.
The contrast performance on this set is something else with its 512 zones and backlight diffuser.
Like I said native contrast ratios don't mean Jack quite honestly, the dimming zones are very very accurate, you get no light bleed, no DSE, very uniform, there are guys who own both an E6 and a 902, and they prefer the 902 for their general viewing.
I'm not making this stuff up, and with HDR it then takes it beyond OLED by some margin.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Experience the TV and come back to me.
You guys really need to get over OLED as the be all and end all.
It's good at some things yes, but at this moment in time I would not want any other TV that exists on this planet, could easily buy any set I wanted; to put a point on it.
vpance
Member
Depends what you mean by same league. Because the local dimming works about as well as a Z9D, and lots of people are cool with pitting that TV against OLEDs.
I'm one of those guys that replaced a late gen Panasonic plasma with a FALD and the blacks are better overall, thanks in part to an excellent anti reflective filter, plus good dimming. The late gen Pannys are completely outclassed now by the top FALDs, especially ones with good BFI which the DX900 has.
OLED crew calm yourselves, plz. Yes, any of the top FALDs on the market today are fine replacements for an old plasma.
For this reason I compromised and put an LCD in the living room where the kids watch Disney after school TV and other throw away programming. As soon as it's movie time, or time for some TV viewing after the kids go to bed it's straight to the home theater in that dimly lit environment you mention.
Honestly we don't have sunshine directly on the display so the OLED would have been fine. It was mostly about not wanting to spend big bucks on a TV for the kids to watch.
vpance
Member
Most of the latest HDR capable TVs will auto adjust the settings to max out brightness or light level when it detects an HDR source. That's not an OLED or LED thing.
Theonik
Member
Any kind of light in the room, the colour of the walls, the colour of the viewer's clothing all affects TV performance at lower black levels. The display itself projects light that is reflected in the room and back to the TV that lowers contrast.
Yes. Which is a huge problem for both when calibrating for bright and dark room viewing. Normally you'd get away with this by adjusting the backlight to compensate for ambient light. HDR locks you out of that option though.
mitchman
Gold Member
Get a LG OLED B6 instead, it's last year's model but a great buy at its current price, and very close to the current model.
vpance
Member
It's a problem for now, but will mostly be solved with dynamic HDR, and smarter brightness controls on TVs and players. Til then most people will find themselves using dynamic contrast to watch HDR in rooms with more light.
I'm not arguing against the DX902 being a suitable or adequate upgrade to a plasma TV.
Cranberrys
Member
I bought a Sony 65ZD9 at a special sale at my local FNAC Store for 2499 and coming from a Sony 55W905 (an already very good TV) and I am truly amazed by the PQ. I'm currently playing ME Andromeda HDR on Xbox One S and it's jaw dropping.
I wanted to go OLED but the Sony OLED is out of my price range (3999 in France) and I wanted to stay with Sony since all my TV's since the CRT days were Sony's and all worked flawlessly but I never expected to see so much difference between 1080p and 2160p. Even, my BR's upscaled by the player (Samsung BD-H6500) in 2160p looks amazing on this TV to the point I can't really see the difference with a UHD BR (I only have Assassin's Creed and The Arrival on UHD BR so far) except for HDR of course.
The only thing I wonder about is deep color ? I don't see any indication. On my W905 the TV was telling me 1080p24 12bit when I was watching a movie but now I only get 3840x2160p with no mention about deep color. Should I deactivate deep color on my player ? And on my Xbox One S ? Standard RGB 8bit or Standard 10 or 12bit ? Currently it's Standard 36bit per pixel (12bit).
I wanted to go OLED but the Sony OLED is out of my price range (3999 in France) and I wanted to stay with Sony since all my TV's since the CRT days were Sony's and all worked flawlessly but I never expected to see so much difference between 1080p and 2160p. Even, my BR's upscaled by the player (Samsung BD-H6500) in 2160p looks amazing on this TV to the point I can't really see the difference with a UHD BR (I only have Assassin's Creed and The Arrival on UHD BR so far) except for HDR of course.
The only thing I wonder about is deep color ? I don't see any indication. On my W905 the TV was telling me 1080p24 12bit when I was watching a movie but now I only get 3840x2160p with no mention about deep color. Should I deactivate deep color on my player ? And on my Xbox One S ? Standard RGB 8bit or Standard 10 or 12bit ? Currently it's Standard 36bit per pixel (12bit).
Tarin02543
Member
I watch LCD and everytime I visit my parents I'm shocked at how good their 2010 Panasonic plasma looks.
vpance
Member
Yes that part was directed at Lima.
Theonik
Member
DV doesn't help that much with that. Already, your TV will tonemap accordingly to the panel capabilities. DV just simplifies this by taking that away from the manufacturer.
Now the real issue here and why they opt to crank the backlight to 100% is that the TVs aren't really bright enough.
Felix Lighter
Member
Anyone have experience with long HDMI cords and 4K HDR signals? I need about 25' and I've seen reports of potential issues in some cases.
I ordered this hdmi cable:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D1P3H92/?tag=neogaf0e-20
And it will be connecting a Gigabyte Aorus Extreme GTX 1080 ti to this TV:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZF7WCT/?tag=neogaf0e-20
From reports the issues seem kind of random and some long cables work fine with some devices but not others and vice versa.
I ordered this hdmi cable:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D1P3H92/?tag=neogaf0e-20
And it will be connecting a Gigabyte Aorus Extreme GTX 1080 ti to this TV:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZF7WCT/?tag=neogaf0e-20
From reports the issues seem kind of random and some long cables work fine with some devices but not others and vice versa.
Caayn
Member
I tried to get a 10m HDMI 2.0 cable that actually provided the full bandwidth. I gave up after trying multiple cables, including active HDMI cables, failed to provide the full bandwidth and decided that it was easier to rework my set-up a bit.
Felix Lighter
Member
Hmmm... this is a little shorter than 10m.. a little less than 8m actually so maybe I'll have more luck or maybe I'll have to figure something out. What length did you end up using after reworking your setup?
Not if you calibrate your televisions to your taste. It is all automatic. Plus you can tinker with HDR settings to suit what you need, bright and dark room viewing.
Who is this aimed at? Because this just makes you sound ill-informed and worthy of an ignore if you think OLED is a PS4 Pro and any sort of non-OLED television is an Xbox One S which is not better by any margin...
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It was aimed at me for having the audacity to say an lowely LCD could compete with an OLED.
vpance
Member
At first I thought it was mostly only for tone mapping also. I think it'll make a notable difference in brightness levels too.
Right now HDR10 is being used like wearing sunglasses all the time, because they want you to see all the detail in highlights. Dynamic HDR will be like, sunglasses only when looking at very bright things.
Backlight should always be cranked to the max, even with 10000 nits. Unless you don't want to experience the full HDR range of the image.
This is a long-standing gripe for me about TV reviews. When they report contrast ratios, they should be taking measurements from a normal viewing distance in both bright and dark rooms. I do not believe for one second that it is possible to actually achieve zero luminance blacks and infinite contrast ratios in practice. If they did realistic measurements it would also give us a way to quantify the value of good anti-reflective coatings.
It is entirely possible for an LCD with excellent anti-reflective coating to have deeper blacks than an OLED with poor coating in a bright room environment.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
512 zones?
Is that supposed to be impressive?
Doesn't really compare at all to the over 8 million zones of OLED.
I am sure the panny is a great lcd panel but you are going to have an uphill battle convincing any one it is superior to a modern HDR OLED panel.
That ship has sailed, I'm afraid.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Haha oh please, move along.
I'm looking at getting either the 43 or 49 inch Sony X800D (or XD80) and, after learning that the black levels on the 49 inch may be poor due to its IPS display, I've got a concern regarding size (quoted from the Sony X800D thread):
Is the concern warranted or should I not worry?
Is the concern warranted or should I not worry?
But he's right...
You're being so ridiculous claiming an LCD that has to use all kinds of tricks to try and emulate something a panel does natively makes it the superior tech.
Next you're going to tell me checkerboard 4K looks better than native 4K.
vpance
Member
For a FALD TV it's very impressive.
If a TVs overall performance is only measured in black level or backlight control, then OLED is unbeatable. But it isn't.
Get the 25 ft Certified Premium HDMI from Monoprice. That should work, if not go for the $150 fiber Slim AV HDR HDMI cable. I have the latter and that is the only cable that actually works over a long distance but you got to pay that price premium. I gave up on Amazon hdmi cables after trying a bunch, most of them doesn't work.
Resident_UA
Member
He is specifically talking about dimming zones. The only reason why those are important are "black level or backlight control".
I think it's stupid to argue about which TV is better when some of us have clear preference. For some reason I'm amazed every time I see back on OLED. It's kind of ridiculous actually. I can be watching old episode of Family Guy and be impressed by black bars on the side
But in all fairness the only major downside of OLEDs that I know of is ABL. Is there any other way that Panasonic beats them at? How's peak brightness on that TV?
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Ok, I'm not claiming it's better than an OLED for SDR, but what I am saying is with its local dimming
it'll give it a decent fight and get very close! Just think about that for a second......an LCD that can give a bloody good account of itself against OLED!? That's an amazing thing, and tbh unheard of until very recently, and is one of the reason people are throwing ill-informed opinions at me.
512 zones vs 8 million as an argument kind of sucks really, because that doesn't do it justice.
The FALD implementations that are coming through now are very sophisticated, and granted arnt perfect, but when you are playing say Mass Effect Andromeda with the deep blacks that are as black as it can get with bright highlights not bleeding the picture out, then you really don't give a shit how many zones there are.
HDR the 902 will easily better the OLED.
And yeah it may not be native, but when the TV is intelligent enough to know what to light and when, does it matter?
DOT DASH DOT
Member
He is specifically talking about dimming zones. The only reason why those are important are "black level or backlight control".
I think it's stupid to argue about which TV is better when some of us have clear preference. For some reason I'm amazed every time I see back on OLED. It's kind of ridiculous actually. I can be watching old episode of Family Guy and be impressed by black bars on the side
But in all fairness the only major downside of OLEDs that I know of is ABL. Is there any other way that Panasonic beats them at? How's peak brightness on that TV?
880 nits 100% field (brightest consumer TV in that category)
Peak 1300 nits.
BFI game mode.
About the same colour space 98%.
Resident_UA
Member
Seems pretty good. The only other premium TV I could compare it to is KS8000 and I didn't find it impressive at all. I guess in the US there's not much choice anyway since they don't sell Panasonic here.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
And that just has 1 row of LED's across the bottom of the screen.
The Panny holds its brightness without dropping either.
vpance
Member
He is specifically talking about dimming zones. The only reason why those are important are "black level or backlight control".
I think it's stupid to argue about which TV is better when some of us have clear preference. For some reason I'm amazed every time I see back on OLED. It's kind of ridiculous actually. I can be watching old episode of Family Guy and be impressed by black bars on the side
But in all fairness the only major downside of OLEDs that I know of is ABL. Is there any other way that Panasonic beats them at? How's peak brightness on that TV?
Dot Dash was, but Klee wasn't, I think? I dunno anymore.
It's just weird to see long time contributors in this thread immediately dismissing FALD TVs. Even the Z9D? The DX900 is right there with it, just dimmer. Arguably, they might not have much time with them?
No, they do no bloom like a 4 zone edge lit.
Yes, they can achieve excellent blacks.
Yes, there can be some haloing or blooming at times, which is more easily seen in the dark.
And they get very bright. Brightest on the market by a large margin, which is good for HDR. And there is no ABL. And they all have BFI. Sounds like a good mix of performance to me.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Like I said in a different way, it's probably only in the last year that FALD displays have taken it to the next level, so in fairness to the other haters, they probably only know 4/20/60/100/150 zone models from yesteryear.
One of the big issues is metrics also, it's taken so literally but just doesn't paint the full picture! And OLED love in this thread is out of control
Resident_UA
Member
Like I said in a different way, it's probably only in the last year that FALD displays have taken it to the next level, so in fairness to the other haters, they probably only know 4/20/60/100/150 zone models from yesteryear.
One of the big issues is metrics also, it's taken so literally but just doesn't paint the full picture! And OLED love in this thread is out of control
There's a very good reason why OLEDs are so loved. I mean it's even fun to look at that TV even when it's off just thinking that those blacks will be the same when you turn it on and appreciating it's thinness. Some of us have irrational passion for that kind of thing.
But in all honestly this really depends on your budget. I got Hisense as stop gap TV and was very happy with it ($450 for 55 inch H8C) and then I got a chance to buy relatively cheap B7 ($1600) and I couldn't be happier with both of these purchases. The only other TV that I ever considered was KS8000, but it's much closer to Hisense than it is to B7. There aren't as many choices as you are implying that there are. Everything gets very expensive once you look at premium TVs.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I don't think I was ever implying that there are loads of premium FALD options, it was more putting my view out there in regards to how top FALD displays can compete with OLED's, and exceed them with HDR, and having to defend my pov.
I like OLED, but give me a shout when they figure out how to get over peak brightness and ABL, definitely it's Achilles heel, all of these top sets have issues.