Why are the black borders cloudy? Looks weird.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Why are the black borders cloudy? Looks weird.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Cloudy one was with no local dimming, the other one was with it on.
I'm viewing on an S7 edge, so the blacks look like how I was seeing it.
If you are viewing them on a laptop, iPhone or similar then it won't look good more then likely.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
902 is the cleanest LCD I've ever seen, no DSE, no clouding, just a little bit of feint banding occasionally noticeable.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
Pricing though? I couldn't see anything with a quick search. If it is priced anything like the A1E having the best isn't a performance gain worth the price of admission over the LG sets. Either way I'm more than content with my B6 until hdmi2.1 etc sets are on the market.
Felix Lighter
Member
So let me set my expectations appropriately. HDR on OLED, not hugely impactful?
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
I think the OLED itself is the impactful part. HDR looks damn good though. Icing yo.
vpance
Member
How can you even begin to tell what should or shouldn't be in those cell phone pics? And I think you're lying. Nobody actually wants grey blacks in 2017. Especially dirty ones, detailed or not.
At least here in Germany pricing is comparable to the LG E7. They even lowered the RRP by 500 because they have seen the light and realized what crack Sony is smoking.
I think it was 128. I know that isn't a lot, but when I was buying I think the only FALD sets available were that, the Sony which was $5500 vs the $1800 I paid for my OLED. There was a Samsung I think, but curved.
Aside from being expensive and larger than I wanted, the Sony DSE reviews are not good.
Screw Panasonic for pulling out of our market.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
anyone?
vpance
Member
So it was a Vizio? I thought their FALD algo was supposed to be one of the better ones, but maybe hockey is its weak point.
Yeah it was, didn't work out well at all.
holygeesus
Banned
Why post them then if they aren't representative of what he is seeing? You can think I'm lying for all I care, I couldn't give a toss. I'd rather have LCD blacks, without active dimming, and actually see details present in the source. Believe it or not, your choice. Its hardy a mind-blowing revelation though is it?
vpance
Member
You have no solid proof that dimming actually kills detail on his TV, not from those 2 pics that is. He posted them to illustrate one point.
No need to be all passive aggressive and shit on the man's TV - "I don't know how anyone watches films on the TV pictured above". Your horse is getting too high, be careful riding.
Haint
Member
Who reviewed it, link?
DOT DASH DOT
Member
The stupid thing is that it's supposed to be floating in the middle of the screen with nothing around it lol.
The dimming off offers no new detail, just turns the blacks grey.
What makes it worse is that we find out he has an FALD LCD too, and you can bet your arse he uses the local dimming on it, and in his words it's not to the level of the 902.
Just gives his comments no standing whatsoever.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
https://youtu.be/9mER9vGU5A8
Here you go, but its in German and i cant say they did it. Price and lack of DV is a no go for me. Picture is somewhat identical to LG and Sony.
B7 vs C7
https://youtu.be/3JIlhzhzYok
Will watch now.
Edit: Only cosmetic difference, LG told the truth.
The processor utilized is strong enough to get the software DV solution with a firmware update just like the Sony. It's just not announced yet because the set isn't really available on the market. They got a pre-production model with some menu bugs etc.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
Ok, but why aren't they saying DV is coming via an update (like sony). Since the presentation it was always a straight no to DV.
So what brought you to the conclusion, it's the best oled of the year? Watched it yesterday and as far as I can remember it was nearly same picture quality but with a lead for LG in the overall brightness.
holygeesus
Banned
Of course dimming kills detail. It does it even on a ZD9! Did you even check the link I posted and look at the impact on contrast there?
Shit on his TV? Lol TVs - serious business.
llien
Member
Which model do you have in mind?
vpance
Member
Feel free to post some quotes. Loss of contrast doesn't always mean loss of detail.
The article is largely in praise of the TV against the LG they tested against anyways in a bunch of aspects, so I don't think it's helping your overall point. Actually, I'm not even sure what it is, as he doesn't own a Z9D.
Yeah. The only reason you posted those pics were to dispel the false narrative that OLEDs are the only TVs that can look completely dark, in the dark. Guess he took that as an attack on his TV and felt like he needed to lash out.
From what I've read, Pansonic does a good job at controlling and limiting blooming/haloing on the 902. That'd be my biggest gripe with a display like that so it's good to see Panasonic making it virtually a non-issue.
But FALD is not a perfect solution and has its drawbacks, at least on the 902 itself with over-aggressive local dimming in dark scenes and that's where OLED will work best.
But FALD is not a perfect solution and has its drawbacks, at least on the 902 itself with over-aggressive local dimming in dark scenes and that's where OLED will work best.
vpance
Member
Well yeah everyone knows that last part already. Nobody has been arguing that their TV is perfect in the last couple pages, just dispelling myths and bad info. DX902 is definitely in the league of current top TVs.
Yeah I'll have to concede that it does a great job at delivering a premium picture quality.
too bad the OS sucks balls
holygeesus
Banned
It's not difficult. Dimming is not always accurate, and the less zones you have, the more chance there is of actual detail being dimmed instead of black space. That is why I posted the link as it shows this perfectly.
It wasn't a slight against any TV because, believe it or not, I don't get personal when it comes to TVs, and as I posted before, my list of owned sets is pretty diverse.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It's not that bad, not that I use it tbh.
The one thing I can say in holy's defense is that he didn't realise that the film is meant to have it floating in black, I mean that's why I posted it as an example.
But still he is all too ready to put down anything that isn't OLED, which is silly as they are all decent in their own way.
Looking forward to seeing the inevitable Z9E anyway, I'm sure that will take things to the next level again.
I have a Chromecast, that's really it. I use the native Netflix/Amazon apps on webOS.
Nothing wrong with that.
Darryl M R
Member
I'm trying to find the best price to buy the Sony X800D. Is there a list of known distributors that have lower prices than the bigger stores? Or is there a way I can track the price of this tv over time?
I have a fancy Roku and Shield TV. I use the built in LG apps most of the time. They are great.
vpance
Member
So are you saying the detail is dimmed or is it killed? Because you said the latter earlier, which implies black crush from dimming. Just post a quote from the article so everyone can understand you clearly because it's long. Or not, no big deal.
What a horrible post.
Your options for 4K HDR and DV boxes are fairly limited. It's either a Roku or a Shield TV cause lol Chromecast. Ain't nobody got time for a second device to start content and using Wifi to stream in the year of our lord LUL
The part where you fucked up when using a dedicated box for this is the TV you bought sucks.
guitarguy316
Member
had my E6 calibrated last night. curious what people are using for HDR GAME MODE? the options to calibrate are limited there.
holygeesus
Banned
It's killed. It's not every scene, and when it works, then great, but it will never be accurate enough *for me*. And *no* I'm not saying OLED tech is perfect, far from it, but this is why I don't like TVs with active dimming. That is my own preference and not a slight against any poster here or their TV.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65zd9-201610164372.htm
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It's killed. It's not every scene, and when it works, then great, but it will never be accurate enough *for me*. And *no* I'm not saying OLED tech is perfect, far from it, but this is why I don't like TVs with active dimming. That is my own preference and not a slight against any poster here or their TV.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65zd9-201610164372.htm
Ok I take it back, you did really mean or more like 'say' you preferred the grey picture! That's benefit of the doubt out of the window then lol.
Going by your logic then, if you were offered an ZD9 or an X800E with no local dimming, you'd prefer to have the X800E! That's so stupid.
True, but if you aren't looking at a dark night sky with stars, but looking at bright sunny day with colorful flowers, that OLED will not get anywhere near as bright or highlight HDR details like the Z9D would especially if calibrated properly. Not to say HDR isn't phenomenal on each set, as OLED are rated differently and even rated for Dolby Vision.
That is why each technology has pros and cons. There is no one thing inherently better at EVERYTHING.
That is why each technology has pros and cons. There is no one thing inherently better at EVERYTHING.
vpance
Member
Yes obviously OLED will be the best at displaying a star field which is an edge case for FALDs, but he made it seem like active dimming always crushes blacks or erases details, which was his initial point until he backtracked.
Having a preference is one thing, but coming at people with attitude on theirs is another. And it isn't like Dot Dash was using Vivid mode or anything, lol.
I put the UHD disc in my Xbox One and the Blu-ray in my PS4 and started them simultaneously yesterday so I could compare picture quality on my B7, and I was hard pressed to see any major difference in both sharpness and HDR. The most telling advantage was less compression artifacts.
After everyone told me I'm crazy in the other thread, I really wonder if anything is wrong with my settings or my setup, or if PE2 is simply overhyped. I can clearly see the benefits of 4k and HDR in games or Netflix.
semicolin82
Neo Member
I've only had a C7 for a few days, but I can say PE2 on uhd is not overhyped. It's jaw dropping.
ISF preset should be the most accurate out of the box I think.
There is no ISF preset for HDR.
That photo is somewhat misleading.
With OLEDs being self-emissive displays, they will be pushing the brightness for point light sources higher than intended, which exaggerates the difference.
If you calibrate brightness to 100 nits for SDR using a standard window pattern, anything below about 15-20% APL will be brighter than 100 nits - while an LCD can sustain a fixed max brightness.
With a starfield, it's rare to have stars which are actually 100% white.
If the brightest star is only 75% white, you can increase the image brightness to 100% and dim the backlight by 25%.
So the resulting brightness is the same with no detail lost, but the black level drops.
Here's an example of a good local dimming implementation:The higher the native contrast ratio of the LCD panel is, the more effective local dimming will be.
It's far more effective on a 5000:1 native VA LCD than a 1000:1 IPS LCD for example.
OLED is certainly going to be better, but a lot of people seem to think that local dimming is just like the old global backlight dimming systems that LCDs had which was better left off. Full array local dimming is nearly always better left enabled.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
That example is absolutely comparable to what I get.
And that's the thing, OLED does do SDR better, but because I dared to say that the FALD I have could give a bloody good account of itself against an OLED, I get shut down.
It's an amazing thing In itself how far LCD tech has come, the fact that I can play a game in a pitch black room with rock solid blacks for the most part is great, I'd never have dreamed doing that with my last 3 LCD's, and that includes the W905a which I still have.