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[CuNi]

Anything that isn't complete garbage.

what about up to 650€?

A LG 49UH620V or a Samsung KU6079?

 

[Pennywise]

what about up to 650€?

A LG 49UH620V or a Samsung KU6079?

Size ?

 

[CuNi]

Size ?

Around 49.

 

[NYR]

It's a 2.0 flash drive, a Sandisk Cruzer. Does it need to be 3.0? Also, I did try turning the TV off and on again.

I believe so, I tried a 2.0 and it failed the update the first time. A 3.0 worked fine right away.

I would give that a go.

 

[Lucky Forward]

I believe so, I tried a 2.0 and it failed the update the first time. A 3.0 worked fine right away.

I would give that a go.

Looks like I need to buy a 3.0 before I proceed, thanks for the info.

 

[holygeesus]

Sigh.. I'm not sure what to do.

I really like my E6, but I'm starting to think real hard if I love it. It has gorgeous black levels and amazing color. It's also brighter than I thought. I really love watching 4K wildlife and nature videos on this thing. Cities around the globe in 4K look amazing too. But what is bothering me, is lack of smoothness in games and in some movies. Titanfall 2 and Overwatch on PS4 look really good and so did Rise of the Tomb Raider in 4K until my PS4 Pro crashed on me like 10 times and I had to have it replaced... and still haven't received the replacement console. Figures...

Anyways... Sure, I can turn on clear motion or put it on smooth but.. the artifacts. The artifacts. They're killing me. Artifacts and judder. It almost feels like the TV jumps a frame or two here and there. If I put it in Game mode, the input lag is fine and it doesn't really bother me in the first place, but the picture movement gets choppy and what I've found out is that I'm really sensitive to these things.

I posted recently about the slightly curved screen I have and the screen being warmer on the right side. LG responded to my email saying the curve is normal and OK, but are looking into the warmness of one side of the screen. However, I noticed a shadowy vertical line to the left of the center of the screen when viewing a white image. Eh????

Do I have it set up wrong or is these things the downsides of OLEDs? I really want to love this thing but I'm having a hard time here

You shouldn't be getting artefacts with games, or judder. There is a glitch in these TVs (still. It's been there since they came out!) where if you cycle between picture modes on the same input, it brings about stuttering, especially Game mode. For example, if you are playing on your PS4 and switch to Standard, then back to Game, it brings about stuttering. It's a known bug, that can be countered by changing inputs and back again, or turning off the TV and back on again.

If you are still seeing the issue after this (and have all picture processing off - you shouldn't have TruMotion on clear or otherwise when gaming) you have a faulty TV as it shouldn't be happening.

Artefacts when watching TV and films are there, especially when feeding these sets poor quality source material, but you shouldn't be seeing it with games.

 

[Paragon]

This is a bummer. First I've heard anyone in this thread cite bad motion on an LG OLED. That is what I'm most concerned about, TBH. I have a nice plasma and it's essentially like watching a CRT in that regard -- VERY little artifacting or motion issues. If spend big money on a TV and start seeing tiles or artifacts .... I'm going to be really bummed out and, frankly, pissed off.

The problem with OLED is that they are sample and hold type displays, which means that they rely on interpolation to improve motion.
They have very low response times, but very high image persistence which results in a lot of motion blur.
The problem with interpolation is that it is not nearly as effective as reducing image persistence, adds a lot of latency which is a problem for playing games, and often breaks resulting in stuttering or other ugly artifacts.

Plasmas are impulse-type displays, which means that motion is improved due to the display flickering.
They have medium-to-fast response times and medium persistence.
However because plasmas can only drive pixels at a single brightness level they have to use tricks like pulse width modulation to drive the display and create shades.
This results in temporal artifacts in motion, like dynamic false contouring (banding in motion) and image breakup similar to DLP rainbows.

I would not call motion on plasma CRT-like, because CRTs have medium-to-fast response times, low persistence, and are capable of driving each pixel at discrete brightness levels, so it does not have any of the temporal artifacts that plasmas do.
The only thing they have in common is that they are both impulse-type displays.

CRT are still the best displays for motion by a long shot, while plasmas give me a headache due to the PWM motion issues.
While it's not suitable for gaming, interpolation is (sadly) the best option for improving motion with film.
The only other way to display it without judder is 24Hz on a low persistence display, and that flickers too much.

 

[holygeesus]

The problem with OLED is that they are sample and hold type displays, which means that they rely on interpolation to improve motion.
They have very low response times, but very high image persistence which results in a lot of motion blur.
The problem with interpolation is that it is not nearly as effective as reducing image persistence, adds a lot of latency which is a problem for playing games, and often breaks resulting in stuttering or other ugly artifacts.

Plasmas are impulse-type displays, which means that motion is improved due to the display flickering.
They have medium-to-fast response times and medium persistence.
However because plasmas can only drive pixels at a single brightness level they have to use tricks like pulse width modulation to drive the display and create shades.
This results in temporal artifacts in motion, like dynamic false contouring (banding in motion) and image breakup similar to DLP rainbows.

I would not call motion on plasma CRT-like, because CRTs have medium-to-fast response times, low persistence, and are capable of driving each pixel at discrete brightness levels, so it does not have any of the temporal artifacts that plasmas do.
The only thing they have in common is that they are both impulse-type displays.

CRT are still the best displays for motion by a long shot, while plasmas give me a headache due to the PWM motion issues.
While it's not suitable for gaming, interpolation is (sadly) the best option for improving motion with film.
The only other way to display it without judder is 24Hz on a low persistence display, and that flickers too much.

Did you copy and paste this because the 2016 OLEDs are very decent with latency so no idea where you are getting your info.

You shouldn't be seeing artefacts as you shouldn't be playing with TrueMotion on!

 

[Theonik]

Did you copy and paste this because the 2016 OLEDs are very decent with latency so no idea where you are getting your info.

You shouldn't be seeing artefacts as you shouldn't be playing with TrueMotion on!

His point is you either have to choose between true motion, with all of its pitfalls or bad motion.

 

[Night Hunter]

Help me, TVGAF, can you recommend a really good TV with real HDR, oh and it must be at least 75".

My budget is 250$

Spoiler

/s

 

[holygeesus]

His point is you either have to choose between true motion, with all of its pitfalls or bad motion.

Bad motion? Wow.

 

[Pennywise]

Around 49.

Uff.
That's a bit harder.
I would say wait a bit until the new models are in and some others drop in price.

If your location within your profile is correct, I strongly suggest https://www.mydealz.de/tv-hifi
for offers and kaufda.de to check your local offers.

The XD8005 is an option, as the model got wide color garmut and handles motion to a good degree.Input lag is also pretty good and HDR isn't the best, but it's decent enough.
Would require you to wait for a decent offer though

I haven't really paid much attention to the LG LCDs, but the KU from Samsung comes with some problems.
Allthough those preferences differ from person to person.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300

Don't be suprised about the name, US got a different number

It's up to you, if you really want a TV now, the KU doesn't seem like the worst investment. However, you could also wait a bit until March-April and see if some other models come down with their price.
The most important part is that you check out these models yourself anyway.
Just buying a TV online without seeing it in person is pretty risky.

 

[Theonik]

Bad motion? Wow.

BadMotion™

Spoiler

I don't think any TV technology at the moment does motion particularly well CRT pls come back

 

[TheBoss1]

I'd like to buy a TV this week. Replacing an old Samsung DLP 60-something" that is on the end of its second bulb (starting to look really dim). I have a budget of right at $2000. Priorities are 4K, HDR, wall-mountable. I do game a bit, but it would be mainly used for TV and movies. The games I play aren't super fast-paced, things like open world games and such.

I'm torn between going as big as possible for the money (so 65" - 75") versus the LG OLED where I can only get 55" for $2000. I've seen the Samsung KS8000 mentioned and at 65" and $1500 that's not too bad (and I have a bit of loyalty toward Samsung). Willing to branch out and try another reputable brand, however.

I have a PS4, will soon get a Xbox One S (gots to play my old XBLA games and RDR!) and send everything through a Denon AVR-S710W receiver -- is that going to be an issue? Will I need to upgrade for HDR pass-through support (or whatever, AV buying isn't my strong suit)?

Anyhow, any thoughts are welcome. Thanks!

If quality matters more than size, I'd say go OLED. If size matters more then go to your preferred brand of TV.

I would wait for the newer TVs this year but if you must get one very soon then follow the suggestion I gave.

This is a bummer. First I've heard anyone in this thread cite bad motion on an LG OLED. That is what I'm most concerned about, TBH. I have a nice plasma and it's essentially like watching a CRT in that regard -- VERY little artifacting or motion issues. If spend big money on a TV and start seeing tiles or artifacts .... I'm going to be really bummed out and, frankly, pissed off.

In your case, I'd just wait for Sony's OLED since they are known for having better motion handling.

 

[thematic]

Samsungs have best input lag on the market I think, usually 20ms on Game Mode even on lower end 2016 models.
Recently got KU6300/6000 and posted this to another user who was thinking about getting it, might as well post here:

Some notes:
-The stand is kinda wonky and wobbles easily but shouldn't be a problem.
-PS4 Pro doesn't like the TV and has the infamous HDCP issue when trying to use 4K RGB, hopefully Sony fixes this in upcoming firmwares.
-OS is kind of slow, but gets the job done.
-All modes except PC have Frame Dimming (Screen darkens if the content on screen is dark), PC mode disables it completely, PC mode has 35ms input lag compared to Game mode which has 20ms but Frame Dimming cannot be disabled there.

I had Panasonic 42" ST60 before this which is regarded as one of the best looking plasmas with superb picture quality, and this doesn't lose to that, for the money the PQ is outstanding, I've been playing FullHD and 4K games on my PS4 and they all look really good.
Hopefully this helps with the decision, cheers mate!

Thank You for your info

my TV just arrived. it's the 43" KU6300/6000 series (a lower end from Samsung 2016 lineup)
it looks like only the "HDMI 1 INPUT" port support 4K@60Hz with RGB
the 2nd and 3rd port only support 4:2:2 color format

 

[Caayn]

Philips/TP Vision have released updates for their 2013 smart TV models that allow them to show advertisements on the menu and when an app is started. They're currently using the 2013 models as a large scale test and are looking to implement this "feature" on newer models when it meets their target.

Excuse my translation skills

We know a lot about the behavioural patterns when it comes to a TV. What channels people watch, what apps they use and because of that we can make advertisements more relevant to the costumer.

No, the televisions won't become cheaper. But the viewing experience will be improved through free apps and videos.

Source (Warning press release is in Dutch): http://www.improvedigital.com/press-releases/tp-vision-philips-smart-tv-klant-bij-improve-digital
Source (Warning Dutch article): http://nos.nl/artikel/2154753-meer-reclame-op-smart-tv-s-van-philips.html

 

[holygeesus]

BadMotion™

Spoiler

I don't think any TV technology at the moment does motion particularly well CRT pls come back

I agree with you on that but to label it bad is a bit off. Every interpolation method has it's flaws - I don't like the flickering effect of BFI, for example. I'd prefer to live with telecine judder.

 

[BigWeather]

If quality matters more than size, I'd say go OLED. If size matters more then go to your preferred brand of TV.

I would wait for the newer TVs this year but if you must get one very soon then follow the suggestion I gave.

In your case, I'd just wait for Sony's OLED since they are known for having better motion handling.

Thanks for the advice. Sadly, I'm not sure I can wait much longer. The DLP is quite dim now, to the point that my wife complains about it often. I figure I've got a month or so, tops. Also the newer models will probably blow past $2000 for 55" I'm afraid. So I'll likely make a choice between the Samsung KS8000 65" at $1500 and the LG OLED 55" at $2000 in the next few days.

As for HDR, is my receiver (Denon AVR-S710W) good to go for that? I'm assuming it has to be able to pass it through from the source on to the TV?

Thanks!

 

[BigWeather]

Philips/TP Vision have released updates for their 2013 smart TV models that allow them to show advertisements on the menu and when an app is started. They're currently using the 2013 models as a large scale test and are looking to implement this "feature" on newer models when it meets their target.

Excuse my translation skills




Source (Warning press release is in Dutch): http://www.improvedigital.com/press-releases/tp-vision-philips-smart-tv-klant-bij-improve-digital
Source (Warning Dutch article): http://nos.nl/artikel/2154753-meer-reclame-op-smart-tv-s-van-philips.html

Wow, that's terrible. Sucks that there isn't anything that can be done about it either as it comes along with an update after having a non-tainted experience for a few years.

Edit: Sorry for the back-to-back posts, I tried to delete this one and merge above but I can't do that it seems.

 

[JackHerer]

Wonder if we will ever see CLED TVs or even gaming monitors. Guessing it's a long way off if it ever even happens. TVs aren't that unlikely I guess but for gaming monitors it would require Sony to either get into the gaming monitor business or license the tech out (they currently do all the fab themselves in Japan I believe, which is unusual).

I saw a giant wall of CLED as CES and it was by far the most impressive display I have ever seen.

Of course we could see true (no backlight) quantum dot displays before then which might be even better.

 

[thegodsend]

So I finally got myself the LG B6. Any news on when the HDR Game mode update is supposed to come to Europe?

Also, anything I need to be aware of when it comes to calibration, settings, modes for gaming?

 

[dallow_bg]

Wonder if we will ever see CLED gaming monitors. Guessing it's a long way off if it ever even happens. Would require Sony to either get into the gaming monitor business or license it out (they currently do all the fab themselves in Japan I believe, which is unusual).

I saw a giant wall of CLED as CES and it was by far the most impressive display I have ever seen.

And the most expense display(s) you've ever seen.

 

[RadarScope1]

In your case, I'd just wait for Sony's OLED since they are known for having better motion handling.

I think that's what I'll do. Playing the waiting game now but it's going to be hard to resist snagging a B6 as the stock winds down this year, especially if there are some good deals. I am also considering just going for a Vizio M-Series for a couple of years and then jumping on the OLED bandwagon. At least if there's some issues with a sub-par picture on a mid-tier TV, I will know in the back of my mind that I haven't paid top dollar and that I can replace it in a few years when other manufactures besides LG start to shake up the OLED market a bit. And if I do a Vizio I might just be able to go 70" instead of 65"....

 

[Kyoufu]

So I took the advice given here and disabled HDCP on PS4 Pro.

Good riddance, I say.

 

[Yukstin]

As for HDR, is my receiver (Denon AVR-S710W) good to go for that? I'm assuming it has to be able to pass it through from the source on to the TV?

Thanks!

That receiver will do 4K HDR pass through according to the spec sheet. You may have to fiddle with the settings to enable deep color support etc. I know on my Yamaha receiver it's buried in a completely different set of menus. Use the Xbox S test setup to ensure the receiver is setup properly once you get the new TV.

 

[HStallion]

Wonder if we will ever see CLED TVs or even gaming monitors. Guessing it's a long way off if it ever even happens. TVs aren't that unlikely I guess but for gaming monitors it would require Sony to either get into the gaming monitor business or license the tech out (they currently do all the fab themselves in Japan I believe, which is unusual).

I saw a giant wall of CLED as CES and it was by far the most impressive display I have ever seen.

Of course we could see true (no backlight) quantum dot displays before then which might be even better.

Those CLED screens are not really for consumer purchases and more for larger scale projects and the like. They are incredible looking and priced to match. Maybe in a decade but for the forseeable future I don't think we should expect anything to come about on that tech at a consumer level.

Personally I'd like Sony to try and get a more reasonable price on those short throw laser projectors of theirs. Too bad they're still the price as a new car.

 

[BigWeather]

That receiver will do 4K HDR pass through according to the spec sheet. You may have to fiddle with the settings to enable deep color support etc. I know on my Yamaha receiver it's buried in a completely different set of menus. Use the Xbox S test setup to ensure the receiver is setup properly once you get the new TV.

Awesome, thanks for the information / tip!

 

[wtd2009]

Anything that isn't complete garbage.

Here you go

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisense...t-4k-ultra-hd-tv-gray/5580979.p?skuId=5580979

I don't know if you really can get quality at that price.

 

[TheBoss1]

I know OLED is the trending topic but why haven't I seen anyone talking about the 1080P HDR TVs from Sony?

I've seen some people asking about them from time to time and I honestly think it's the perfect stopgap until they can afford/want a proper 4K HDR experience. 4K is the future but we still have TV broadcasts at 720P. Still a long ways to go.

Sony introduces first HDR-capable Full HD TVs for PS4 gaming

 

[Dave_6]

Just got a call that my B6 will be here Friday. Probably going to have to meet the truck driver though as I don't think a tractor trailer will make it to my house. Keep my fingers crossed that it arrives in one piece.

 

[HStallion]

I know OLED is the trending topic but why haven't I seen anyone talking about the 1080P HDR TVs from Sony?

I've seen some people asking about them from time to time and I honestly think it's the perfect stopgap until they can afford/want a proper 4K HDR experience. 4K is the future but we still have TV broadcasts at 720P. Still a long ways to go.

Sony introduces first HDR-capable Full HD TVs for PS4 gaming

I'm actually considering getting one of these this year as my current TV is nearly a decade old though it still works fine. I want HDR and I don't mind 1080p and of course, this will probably be a far more cost effective solution until I have some more cash to throw down on a fully decked out set, perhaps in 2018 or even 2019.

 

[dallow_bg]

I know OLED is the trending topic but why haven't I seen anyone talking about the 1080P HDR TVs from Sony?

I've seen some people asking about them from time to time and I honestly think it's the perfect stopgap until they can afford/want a proper 4K HDR experience. 4K is the future but we still have TV broadcasts at 720P. Still a long ways to go.

Sony introduces first HDR-capable Full HD TVs for PS4 gaming

That's really interesting. I hadn't even heard of these.

 

[Malcolm9]

Anyone here got a Sony KD65XD9305? Just wondered if it's any good. I've checked reviews and tech sites and it seems pretty decent, just would like to get an opinion from any owners.

 

[rokkerkory]

KS under $1500 on costco with at least 2 year warranty, 4 if you get it with the costco visa

https://www.costco.com/Samsung-65"-...-LCD-TV-UN65KS800DFXZA.product.100289903.html

SO WANT NOW

but new sets coming soon

 

[BumRush]

I know OLED is the trending topic but why haven't I seen anyone talking about the 1080P HDR TVs from Sony?

I've seen some people asking about them from time to time and I honestly think it's the perfect stopgap until they can afford/want a proper 4K HDR experience. 4K is the future but we still have TV broadcasts at 720P. Still a long ways to go.

Sony introduces first HDR-capable Full HD TVs for PS4 gaming

Can't read the article right now but is that REAL HDR or no?

 

[ascii42]

Can't read the article right now but is that REAL HDR or no?

The article has this:

Sony declined to give out numbers when we asked them at CES so we have no idea how deep blacks are, how high peak brightness is and how large a percentage of the DCI-P3 color space the TVs cover. However, we think it is same to assume that these TVs will not match the high-end TVs’s HDR capabilities. The HDR effect may even be limited but nevertheless Sony is giving you choice.

I'll keep my eye on those. I currently have the 24" Playstation Display in my bedroom, but I'd consider replacing it with the 32" WE61 in the article. Granted, I don't have any HDR sources hooked up to it right now.

 

[RadarScope1]

I know OLED is the trending topic but why haven't I seen anyone talking about the 1080P HDR TVs from Sony?

I've seen some people asking about them from time to time and I honestly think it's the perfect stopgap until they can afford/want a proper 4K HDR experience. 4K is the future but we still have TV broadcasts at 720P. Still a long ways to go.

Sony introduces first HDR-capable Full HD TVs for PS4 gaming

That's nice but if I'm reading it correctly they top out at 49". Probably why they aren't talked about here much. I actually have looked for a large 1080p TV with HDR. Seems like everything in a large size is 4K now, even in the budget brands.

 

[Jigolo]

https://youtu.be/mixXBuso5g8

Oppo 203 review

 

[Karspankey]

Would a game that renders at 1440p, like Uncharted 4, look better on a 4K screen or better on a 1080p screen? My understandings of how the upscaling works are shaky. A 4K screen could actually render 1440p, but it is farther from the native res of 4K so I feel like it would almost look worse than a supersampled 1080p. I'm looking at a 4K screen, the 43" Sony x800D specifically, and am wondering if the 4K res is worth it for the small amount of actual native or checkboarded 4K games on the PS4 Pro.

 

[sector4]

Would a game that renders at 1440p, like Uncharted 4, look better on a 4K screen or better on a 1080p screen? My understandings of how the upscaling works are shaky. A 4K screen could actually render 1440p, but it is farther from the native res of 4K so I feel like it would almost look worse than a supersampled 1080p. I'm looking at a 4K screen, the 43" Sony x800D specifically, and am wondering if the 4K res is worth it for the small amount of actual native or checkboarded 4K games on the PS4 Pro.

In my experience, everything, including 1080p content, looks better upscaled on a 4K screen. It will depend on what 4K TV and what 1080p TV you have though obviously.

 

[Karspankey]

In my experience, everything, including 1080p content, looks better upscaled on a 4K screen. It will depend on what 4K TV and what 1080p TV you have though obviously.

Interesting, I wouldn't think that would be the case! I have a really old Sanyo DP42840 (2010) so I can imagine any TV would be a huge upgrade. I only recently started using this TV though; was using a nice IPS Asus 23" monitor before. I only started using this hand me down TV because I appreciated the size compared to the monitor!

 

[Geneijin]

Sigh.. I'm not sure what to do.

I really like my E6, but I'm starting to think real hard if I love it. It has gorgeous black levels and amazing color. It's also brighter than I thought. I really love watching 4K wildlife and nature videos on this thing. Cities around the globe in 4K look amazing too. But what is bothering me, is lack of smoothness in games and in some movies. Titanfall 2 and Overwatch on PS4 look really good and so did Rise of the Tomb Raider in 4K until my PS4 Pro crashed on me like 10 times and I had to have it replaced... and still haven't received the replacement console. Figures...

Anyways... Sure, I can turn on clear motion or put it on smooth but.. the artifacts. The artifacts. They're killing me. Artifacts and judder. It almost feels like the TV jumps a frame or two here and there. If I put it in Game mode, the input lag is fine and it doesn't really bother me in the first place, but the picture movement gets choppy and what I've found out is that I'm really sensitive to these things.

I posted recently about the slightly curved screen I have and the screen being warmer on the right side. LG responded to my email saying the curve is normal and OK, but are looking into the warmness of one side of the screen. However, I noticed a shadowy vertical line to the left of the center of the screen when viewing a white image. Eh????

Do I have it set up wrong or is these things the downsides of OLEDs? I really want to love this thing but I'm having a hard time here

I'm gonna sell my OLED55C6P if the new Sony A1E is good. The motion resolution is an issue for me as well.

The vertical line you're talking about is the gray uniformity. You can't do anything about that. It's part of panel lottery for any TV not unique to the LG OLEDs.

 

[BumRush]

The article has this:


I'll keep my eye on those. I currently have the 24" Playstation Display in my bedroom, but I'd consider replacing it with the 32" WE61 in the article. Granted, I don't have any HDR sources hooked up to it right now.

Okay cool, kind of the response I expected

 

[ss_lemonade]

In my experience, everything, including 1080p content, looks better upscaled on a 4K screen. It will depend on what 4K TV and what 1080p TV you have though obviously.

I just realized yesterday that my computer hooked to my ks9000 at 1080p doesn't look as good as my 1080p bravia, even at 4:4:4. There's a slight blur to certain elements like text. Is this nvidia's upscaling blur shenanigans? I heard that they apply filtering or something when scaling the image to full size

 

[Xion_Stellar]

I know OLED is the trending topic but why haven't I seen anyone talking about the 1080P HDR TVs from Sony?

I've seen some people asking about them from time to time and I honestly think it's the perfect stopgap until they can afford/want a proper 4K HDR experience. 4K is the future but we still have TV broadcasts at 720P. Still a long ways to go.

Sony introduces first HDR-capable Full HD TVs for PS4 gaming

Oh this is exactly what I was looking for! I will defiantly grab one of those when they release because I still don't feel the need to upgrade to a 4K TV but I wouldn't mind experiencing some of my PC and PS4 Pro games in HDR.

I sure hope that the advent of HDR in PC monitors triggers alot more HDR compatible PC games in the future the same way the PS4 Pro is doing now.

 

[vatstep]

I'm planning to buy a 32" set for my bedroom, pretty much exclusively for Switch and NES Classic. Does anyone have any suggestions?

1080p is a must, but other than that the only desirables are audio output of some kind (stereo mini, RCA, even optical) and a split stand (with two feet, not a single base). I'm currently leaning toward a Vizio D or E series since they seem to be decent for gaming.

 

[Paragon]

I don't think any TV technology at the moment does motion particularly well CRT pls come back

It is possible for displays to have really good motion handling again.
It's no secret why CRTs have such clear motion compared to anything else.
Unfortunately the reason for it is that they flicker.

The less time each frame is held on-screen, the more the display flickers - but the clearer and smoother motion will be.
The more frames you have, the less flicker there will be. 120 FPS flickers a lot less than 60 FPS.
Anything less than 48 FPS flickers too much to have great motion and interpolation must be used instead.

Interpolation works to smooth out motion and reduce motion blur by creating new frames to insert between the original frames, as a method of reducing the amount of time a frame is held on-screen without blanking the screen and causing it to flicker.
The problem is that these new frames are far from perfect, and it adds latency to do this which makes it unsuitable for playing games.

Caution, lots of flickering in these videos, especially the plasma one.

A CRT updating the screen looks like this in slow motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRidfW_l4vs
A single scanline moves down the screen and the screen flickers once per refresh, resulting in very low image persistence.
The response time of the CRT determines how much of a ghost image is left behind.

A Plasma TV looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlpl7AmvNo#t=0m26s
It updates the whole screen at once and fires rapid pulses of red/green/blue light to try and create different levels of brightness in the image.
It doesn't look like a full color image in slow motion because the response time of the red/green/blue phosphors don't match.
They still flicker, but in a very different way from a CRT.
They update the screen at 10x the rate of the source or more, and hold the frame on-screen much longer. (medium image persistence)

LCD and OLED hold the previous frame on-screen the entire time and draw a new frame on top of the old one from top to bottom, which is why it's called "sample and hold" driving. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epYGN7XyqiM
Since the image is held on-screen the whole time, we see a lot of motion blur, and motion for any given framerate does not appear as smooth. (high/full image persistence)

The difference between LCD and OLED is that the response time is much faster. The drive method is the same.
Here's a color example which shows the effects of response time on the image: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wts8f1bNnbo
This video shows what a 5-6ms response time looks like in slow motion.
The brown band where the screen is transitioning from green to red would be much smaller with an OLED display.
Response time reduces colors smearing together like that, but doesn't change how the image is drawn (held on-screen the entire time) so it does very little for motion blur.

OLED doesn't have to use sample and hold; Sony's OLED monitors have a blur reduction mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTfvwOGu4EI
But none of LG's OLEDs or TVs using those panels have the option.
LCDs can also reduce persistence with techniques like backlight strobing - like some of Sony's TVs use.
But this must be strobed in sync with the source framerate or else it causes worse problems than it fixes. You can't display a 60 FPS source and strobe at 120Hz.
Unfortunately I think Sony removed the 60Hz mode from their 2016 TVs for some reason, so it is only available on 2015 and earlier TVs.

I agree with you on that but to label it bad is a bit off. Every interpolation method has it's flaws - I don't like the flickering effect of BFI, for example. I'd prefer to live with telecine judder.

Dark frame insertion - or strobing/scanning the image - is not interpolation. It's the only way to improve motion without interpolation.

In your case, I'd just wait for Sony's OLED since they are known for having better motion handling.

They may have better interpolation options. None of the 2017 OLEDs using LG panels are expected to have blur reduction modes though.
I do wish that there was a site out there which did proper analysis of displays - perhaps with a slow-motion camera - to compare how their interpolation modes work.
Not all of us hate it (outside of gaming) and there's very little information on it at all - objective or not.

 

[Paragon]

I sure hope that the advent of HDR in PC monitors triggers alot more HDR compatible PC games in the future the same way the PS4 Pro is doing now.

I think everyone is waiting for Microsoft to support HDR in Windows 10 - hopefully in the Creator's Update - instead of jumping on-board with AMD or NVIDIA specific APIs.

 

[TheBoss1]

Hands-on with Samsung's 2017 "QLED" TVs (& technical information)

Seems like a very mixed first impressions from the hands on.

The first thing that you should know is that, in 2017, QLED = LCD with quantum dots. While there has been some chatter about an entirely novel self-emitting display technology, internally dubbed QLED, this is not it. These are LCD panels. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm sure this was known but since Samsung is deliberately misleading consumers, it's important to hammer this home.

In the 2017 LCD panels, Samsung has split each pixel into two. This technique is known in the industry as a dual-pixel structure and has been demonstrated in the past, mostly as prototype displays. Samsung is using it to improve the viewing angles markedly.

The important thing here is that the new structure improves viewing angles quite dramatically and it looks like Samsung may actually have eliminated one of the biggest drawbacks of VA LCD panels.

Interesting but I will only believe this once it's released for consumers and review sites can address these claims.

So, even the flagship Q9 is edge-lit, making it more comparable to last year’s KS8000 than to KS9800.

To us, that is disappointing. Not only will it significantly hamper Samsung’s ability to compete for the picture quality crown, it makes us skeptical of those peak brightness claims. To use last year’s KS8000 as an example it could hit 1000 nits peak brightness on simple test patterns but subject it to true content and it would rarely, if ever, hit the same peak brightness when it was supposed to. Oftentimes, only half of that. Why? Because of the edge LED backlight (plus the LED’s boost, warm-up and cool-down mechanisms).

This is disappointing to hear.

Samsung said that it has managed to improve black depth “through lower reflectance” but we still noticed some greyness in certain areas.

Sigh. I think LCD has almost reached it's peak potential with the ZD9. I'm convinced the only reason it's still around is because it's the cheapest to produce out of all panels.

 

[TLZ]

It is possible for displays to have really good motion handling again.
It's no secret why CRTs have such clear motion compared to anything else.
Unfortunately the reason for it is that they flicker.

The less time each frame is held on-screen, the more the display flickers - but the clearer and smoother motion will be.
The more frames you have, the less flicker there will be. 120 FPS flickers a lot less than 60 FPS.
Anything less than 48 FPS flickers too much to have great motion and interpolation must be used instead.

Interpolation works to smooth out motion and reduce motion blur by creating new frames to insert between the original frames, as a method of reducing the amount of time a frame is held on-screen without blanking the screen and causing it to flicker.
The problem is that these new frames are far from perfect, and it adds latency to do this which makes it unsuitable for playing games.

Caution, lots of flickering in these videos, especially the plasma one.

A CRT updating the screen looks like this in slow motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRidfW_l4vs
A single scanline moves down the screen and the screen flickers once per refresh, resulting in very low image persistence.
The response time of the CRT determines how much of a ghost image is left behind.

A Plasma TV looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlpl7AmvNo#t=0m26s
It updates the whole screen at once and fires rapid pulses of red/green/blue light to try and create different levels of brightness in the image.
It doesn't look like a full color image in slow motion because the response time of the red/green/blue phosphors don't match.
They still flicker, but in a very different way from a CRT.
They update the screen at 10x the rate of the source or more, and hold the frame on-screen much longer. (medium image persistence)

LCD and OLED hold the previous frame on-screen the entire time and draw a new frame on top of the old one from top to bottom, which is why it's called "sample and hold" driving. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epYGN7XyqiM
Since the image is held on-screen the whole time, we see a lot of motion blur, and motion for any given framerate does not appear as smooth. (high/full image persistence)

The difference between LCD and OLED is that the response time is much faster. The drive method is the same.
Here's a color example which shows the effects of response time on the image: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wts8f1bNnbo
This video shows what a 5-6ms response time looks like in slow motion.
The brown band where the screen is transitioning from green to red would be much smaller with an OLED display.
Response time reduces colors smearing together like that, but doesn't change how the image is drawn (held on-screen the entire time) so it does very little for motion blur.

OLED doesn't have to use sample and hold; Sony's OLED monitors have a blur reduction mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTfvwOGu4EI
But none of LG's OLEDs or TVs using those panels have the option.
LCDs can also reduce persistence with techniques like backlight strobing - like some of Sony's TVs use.
But this must be strobed in sync with the source framerate or else it causes worse problems than it fixes. You can't display a 60 FPS source and strobe at 120Hz.
Unfortunately I think Sony removed the 60Hz mode from their 2016 TVs for some reason, so it is only available on 2015 and earlier TVs.

Dark frame insertion - or strobing/scanning the image - is not interpolation. It's the only way to improve motion without interpolation.

They may have better interpolation options. None of the 2017 OLEDs using LG panels are expected to have blur reduction modes though.
I do wish that there was a site out there which did proper analysis of displays - perhaps with a slow-motion camera - to compare how their interpolation modes work.
Not all of us hate it (outside of gaming) and there's very little information on it at all - objective or not.

Sorry I'm not quite a pro at this but you seem like one. Is the plasma better at handling motion than oled? Can you possibly rank them best to worst?