SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Alright, so what's the best TV I can nab for under a grand?
Doesn't need HDR or 4K. Prefer refresh rate and size.
Doesn't need HDR or 4K. Prefer refresh rate and size.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
When can we expect all of the cool tech, like QLED TVs that were on display at CES to hit the market?
On a related note... I've been very hesitant to make the jump to 4K after seeing all of the posts on NeoGAF and Reddit about HDR-but-not-really-full-HDR, having to manually crank up the backlight to full to get HDR to work in games, and all of the intricate technical details that must be in place to truly take advantage of these new technologies properly. When do we expect to get full specification on the new 2017 models in order to determine if this years round of 4K televisions will better, and more conveniently support HDR?
On a related note... I've been very hesitant to make the jump to 4K after seeing all of the posts on NeoGAF and Reddit about HDR-but-not-really-full-HDR, having to manually crank up the backlight to full to get HDR to work in games, and all of the intricate technical details that must be in place to truly take advantage of these new technologies properly. When do we expect to get full specification on the new 2017 models in order to determine if this years round of 4K televisions will better, and more conveniently support HDR?
Got a weird issue with my B6. Sometimes the picture won't fill up the entire screen. There will be a section on either the left or right that is blacked out. Maybe 1/4 of an inch. Sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right. Sometimes it seems to get split on either side. Cycling through the aspect ratio will fix it temporarily but eventually it happens again. Any ideas? Should I be using "original" instead of "16x9"?
PeterVenkman
Member
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C5TFLSE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
55 inch, has HDR & 4K. Probably the best response rate for gaming, 22ms. Not sure if you wanted bigger than that or not.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Tough decision for me as I want a 60in. Another $500 for that is not terrible tho...
Have a 55" of that model. Like it a lot. Black levels are great head on but can fall off a little if you are watching at an angle, and if you have the local dimming on too high you can get galling around eg subtitles. But overall it's really nice, and I like the android TV interface - all the apps I need under the 'discover' button (plex, iplayer, Netflix, amazon prime and others) and it works as a chromecast receiver
looks like the 65 is the same price as the 60. Probably trying to clear inventory to make room for 2017 models. Right now is a good time to buy a 2016 model.
Lucky Forward
Member
Yeah, I wasn't impressed by their QLED offering at all. If I were to get an LCD TV, it'd definitely be the ZD9.
Thanks for posting this for us driving by. That's pretty disappointing. I'm very interested in upgrading to a 4K this year, but I'm very apprehensive about ending up with a dud that isn't quite what I was hoping for.
What do y'all suggest investing in? Is an LG OLED the way to go for 4K HDR?
I think OLED is the bet for the overall best picture quality. I have a C6 OLED and it's fantastic.
Luckily for 2017, you'll have more than one brand to pick from with Sony entering the OLED race. Philips and Panasonic will also have OLED panels in Europe but probably not in The States.
Excellent, thanks!
Edit: With your C6 - do you have any issue when playing video games with the HUD lingering on the screen due to image retention? Is it noticeable when the game plays a cutscene without the HUD - does the HUD linger around during the cutscene for a few seconds before fading out?
Pancakes R Us
Member
Looking to get a new TV in the next few months (UK here). Hoping to spend max of £1k, perhaps up to £1.5k. Doesn't have to hit the limit, can be lower as long as it's decent. Planning to use it for Wii U/Switch/PS4 Pro and watching TV. Hoping for:
4K HDR
50-60"
Maybe passive 3D but 3D isn't a necessity. Not after active 3D.
Decent for gaming
OLED if it's possible around my price range
Any recommendations?
4K HDR
50-60"
Maybe passive 3D but 3D isn't a necessity. Not after active 3D.
Decent for gaming
OLED if it's possible around my price range
Any recommendations?
clarknova156
Member
Not surprised by any of this. Samsung lies and lies each year and gets away with it. It's still a good tv but the deceptive marketing is appalling.
Seems like the ZD9 is the pinnacle of LCD tech.
I think we'll start seeing it more and more at CES but it won't be in consumer homes for a while. Only higher end PCs regularly play games in native 4K at this point and cable is still 1080p. IMO, it will be at least 5 years before 8K is a reasonable thing for consumers and much more than that until the majority of sources adopt.
NYR
Member
Sick, glad it worked! Enjoy the TV! 2016 LG OLEDs are the best TVs in years, IMO.
Did it improve anything?
Sup guys, I'm primary a PC gamer looking to make a TV purchase and I'm looking for the lowest input lag possible.
Is the www.displaylag.com database considered reliable reference? And can anyone vouch for the Samsung KS8500 and KS9500 sets? Thanks
Is the www.displaylag.com database considered reliable reference? And can anyone vouch for the Samsung KS8500 and KS9500 sets? Thanks
I haven't had any issues with image retention with games or watching regular TV with say an ESPN logo in the corner.
The TV runs a comp cycle each night after I turn it off which is supposed to correct any image retention but to my eye I just haven't seen anything during regular use.
Almost two months in, and it's still the best picture I've ever seen. It continues to impress too, I've probably watched about 15 4K Blu Rays on it. A group of people from work are coming around tonight to watch Goodfellas in 4K
Almost two months in, and it's still the best picture I've ever seen. It continues to impress too, I've probably watched about 15 4K Blu Rays on it. A group of people from work are coming around tonight to watch Goodfellas in 4K
Ouch, don't do that to them. It's a terrible transfer.
OLEDs are unforgiving if you feed them a shitty signal (= streaming etc)
You sure it isn't the source?
I have seen banding in some instances, but when I viewed the same content on an LCD I also saw it, so it wasn't the OLED.
Almost two months in, and it's still the best picture I've ever seen. It continues to impress too, I've probably watched about 15 4K Blu Rays on it. A group of people from work are coming around tonight to watch Goodfellas in 4K
I wish the Z9D was cheaper.
Oh no serious? Yikes! I haven't watched it yet obviously but that's disappointing to hear. It comes with the regular blu ray as well, surely it's not worse than that? Do you have any more info?
Edit: Somehow I missed the blu-ray.com review for it despite being on that site nearly daily! YIKES! wow man, that sounds terrible :\ haha I might be better off playing the regular blu ray by the sounds of it. How disappointing, it's one of my favourite films!
It's been discounted quite heavily and frequently where I am, I have no idea why it hasn't elsewhere...I wish the Z9D was cheaper.
It would be great to get it into more peoples homes.TheGuardian
Member
I've done a test where I made a perfect gradient in photoshop, saved it to png and viewed it on the TV. It looked fine. So it's definitely a source content issue.
Maybe some TVs would do additional processing to try and smooth it out, but I rather my TV doesn't touch the signal and just shows stuff as is.
Well a lot of this depends on what you're trying to watch.
With a high framerate source CRT wins every time.
For anything else there really is no "best" because it depends which issues bother you the most.
Lots of people think their plasma TVs have really good motion handling, but the way they update the screen means that I can't watch them for an extended period of time.
LCDs with a backlight strobe/scan mode are arguably second to CRT for motion blur, but they still have slow response times.
OLEDs have fast response times but lots of motion blur. I'm hoping next year's models (2018) do something about that.
For low framerate sources a CRT running at an equally low refresh rate is technically best for motion blur and smoothness, but flickers too much to be considered a real option.
Second best would be an OLED with good interpolation. Then an LCD. Then plasma in last place, since none of them display anything higher than 60 FPS.
But some people hate fluid motion and would prefer a plasma to OLED or LCD since it might have less motion blur.
OLED has the potential to be the best no matter the source, but they need to do something about that motion blur, and it seems like LG's interpolation is not great. Sony's OLED should hopefully address the latter.
OLEDs have reduced bit-depth near black and cause artifacts in highly compressed signals to become more visible than they should be.
That is "unforgiving" but some people might read that as "they're so good, you need to send them a really good source" and not "they have problems displaying lower quality sources".
When debanding is done well, it's really effective.
Don't forget that most sources today are still 8-bit. That means 256 steps from black to white, which is going to have banding unless you cover that up with noise. (dither)
Debanding can turn an 8-bit gradient into a 10-bit gradient for your 10-bit display panel.
Of course that assumes that it's being done well, but I've never seen anyone complain about Sony's Super Bit Mapping technique - which should hopefully be an option on their OLED.
Karspankey
Banned
I have the choice between getting the Samsung KS8000 (49") or the Sony X800D (43') and the Nintendo Switch.
I've read the reviews on RTINGS for both TVs and can't really tell if the KS8000 would be worth spending more for over the X800D. From what I can tell, the only major difference is that the KS8000 can get wayyyy brighter. Does the brightness impact the colors of HDR or am I good with the X800D as long as I don't care that much about the brightness? I would be playing in a very dark room if that helps!
I've read the reviews on RTINGS for both TVs and can't really tell if the KS8000 would be worth spending more for over the X800D. From what I can tell, the only major difference is that the KS8000 can get wayyyy brighter. Does the brightness impact the colors of HDR or am I good with the X800D as long as I don't care that much about the brightness? I would be playing in a very dark room if that helps!
The brightness and in particular the nits (1000 KS and 400 Sony) play a rather big role. The KS is a step up in terms of HDR.
Seriously, get into a store and check out HDR on both. Along with other things you might wanna see.
It's a big investment and you don't wanna regret it.
Karspankey
Banned
Thanks for the reply! HDR is a big thing to me! I want to experience it in its fullest and if I need to go with the KS8000, I will since I have the opportunity. I wouldn't have the need/urge to upgrade for a long time and I can just get the Switch later this year since it is much more affordable. I still have lots of time to decide so I should try and see them in person like you said. A problem I have is living in the middle of nowhere, with the nearest BestBuy being 3 hours away! There is a Wal-Mart closer to me, however. Wonder what kind of 4K TV's they'd have on display?
Get the X800D and save the extra $300 for another TV upgrade in the near future.
Karspankey
Banned
Do you have the X800D? And if so, how do you like it?
clarknova156
Member
OLED is MUCH more critical of source material. If the source looks like shit than your OLED will show it in fully shitty glory. Feed it an amazing source it looks incredible.
It reminds me a lot of the Kuro I use to have. Just relentless with bad source material.
TLZ
Banned
Yea I had the KS9500 and it's input lag was pretty good at around 20ms. I'm not a PC gamer though so you might be coming from an ultra responsive monitor and feeling the difference.
Thank you very much. I actually thought Plasmas were better when handling motion tbh because they reminded me of CRTs, while LCDs motion handling always looked "softer" to me.
Thanks for clarifying
Btw, since most CRT programs/shows etc showed interlaced images instead of progressive (well in my case anyway), does that affect motion handling at all?
I had a similar choice, but as it turned out the Samsung was an extra £200 (which I didn't have) and with those silly edge feet meant the TV wouldn't fit on my TV unit I ended up buying the 49 inch XD800 (specifically the XD8077). For the money (£585) it's been fantastic, HDR content looks incredible to me, incredibly vibrant, really 'pops'. 4k stuff looks amazing and the TV does a fantastic job of upscaling non 4k content. HDR seems bright enough to me, looking at the sun in the Witness or leaving a dark cave and entering a sunny area in uncharted 4 actually makes me have to squint. It's still a 10 bit panel so HDR performance is half decent. The wide colour gamut adds a subtle level of realism to the picture that o didn't think I would appreciate as much as I do, it's a much more natural coloured picture than my last Sony I had.
I will say that the blacks aren't the blackest, so if you play it in a very dark room it's going to look a bit greyer so the KS8000 might be a better choice. I play in a darkish room so it's not an issue for me. Grey uniformity isn't the best, you can really see the dirty screen effect when panning across solid colours for example in The Witness, but it's not an issue in scenes with more going on. Input lag in game mode is pretty low, 35ms; I have noticed a slight improvement in my Battlefield 1 performance, but not enough for me to be sure it's not just placebo.
Overall though, I've been extremely pleased with it, Ps4 pro games look amazing, uncharted 4 in HDR just blew my mind, Resi 7 looks amazing, the 4k stuff I've streamed looks incredible. For the money it's been a solid purchase. The KS8000 is doubtless the better TV but in the real world with my eyes and my disposable income, the x800 has been wonderful.
I would say that the 43" is a different panel to the 49" for the Sony, IDS vs VA, so the 43 might have better blacks than the 49, but not as wide a viewing angle. I'd say the main difference being the size and the price, it's really about how it fits in you room and how much you want to spend. You can't really get better at the 43" size than the Sony.
I had the XBR49X800D - the one with an IPS panel. It's pretty damn good for an IPS honestly. But that's not what you're looking it since the XBR43X800D has a VA panel. I mainly bought it because of affordability, performance, value, and screen size at the time and I liked it, but temptation got me in the end... Sold it after owning it for less than a month and upgraded to a OLED55C6P because I found a deal for it on eBay. With that said, I'd still suggest the XBR43X800D over the UN49KS8000 because 1.) you're considering between the two. so you think they're both worthwhile, 2.) it's a $250 difference, 3.) both are edge-lit displays, and frankly, even though the UN49KS8000 has local dimming unlike the XBR43X800D, it's not worth the extra money personally when compared to Full-Array Local Dimming (FALD), and 4.) the UN49KS8000 may have a peak brightness of like 1,400 listed on rtings.com, but it's useless when calibrating your grayscale if it can't sustain that level of luminance. The UN49KS8000 however is the better TV for a very bright room since it can sustain 500 nits compared to the 375 nits the XBR43X800D outputs. Sure, you can spend the extra money and get the overall better HDTV at the end of the day as the UN49KS800 is a brighter HDTV and has local dimming with a higher static contrast ratio, but they have very similar color volumes. I think you'd be surprised at the comparison in a head-to-head. It's why I suggest saving the money and upgrading again in 3-5 years because frankly, imagine the KS8000 but with better viewing angles and (I'm assuming) higher sustainable luminance levels since they're touting up to 2,000 nits for peak brightness that's releasing later this year.
its partly 'feed LG OLED shit and it looks like shit'. Good HD/4k sources are ok, but even then low bitrates and dark scenes can look bad on any set. But some sets have better noise reduction options that can mitigate that a bit.