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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified

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Anjelus_

Junior Member
Things like this make me wish I was more actively involved in my government's affairs. I have a 2-yr-old degree related to government that I'm not using at all in the private sector.

I was very emotionally affected when I read about this today. My heart goes out to the victims, and I hope people like the perpetrators will one day realize how absolutely senseless attacks like these are.
 
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Fuck yeah. Terminate these roaches.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Kind of goes back to the point I was trying to make. IF...depicting the prophet is a mortal sin, and the existence of the image itself is not acceptable, then punishing someone for continuing to produce images, and trying to destroy the images, is something justified by their belief that the image of the prophet can't exist.

The problem is, if someone truly believes in religion. Then what the holy text says, is their truth. Adhering to modern social/laws doesn't make that much sense, if the afterlife and what your views are, trump that. So the problem is, how do you have a religion where depicting their prophet is a mortal sin? It clashes with free speech, and basic laws such as not murdering someone. So how does that religion reconcile with that?

I know plenty of religious folks do put aside beliefs, to be a citizen in a modern/society. But it's really problematic again, when something in that religion states something is a specific way. And it's not entirely compatible with a modern society. The idea that, they have the right to destroy any image of their prophet. That they HAVE to remove any images (because the existence of these images is a big no no). That alone (even if we ignore the violence, and punishment of the person that continues to make images or talk about things they find blasphemous), doesn't really go hand in hand with a modern society, and clashes big time.

I'm not entirely sure what the solution here is. Or rather, how religions move past this and adapt/evolve.

100% agreed. Part of the blame of failed integration should be on Western society, but sadly a big part of the problem is inherent with not shedding those religious beliefs. A believer is basically forced into a schizophrenic parallel life where he/she "tolerates" the society they live in superficially, but has to believe something else entirely (or risks loosing his place in heaven). It is pure fuel for a "they vs. us".
 

SystemBug

Member
I see a man shrugging his shoulders caught between extremism and the rest of the moderate world. If practicing your religion means you don't support other people's freedom of expression, well then sorry, but that is a problem. And that's my point, saying you're a muslim doesn't tell me where you stand on the real issue. As we know not all people of faith support freedom of expression.

when the hell did being muslim = not allowed to support freedom of expression

i guess my cousins all need to carry a card to show that they support freedom of expression
 
The journalists on TV are saying that they don't understand why they're allowed to be so close, they're wondering if this is a red herring by the RAID.

It better be, would be lunacy if this gave the scum the opportunity to prepare / kill themselves.
 

Mononoke

Banned
100% agreed. Part of the blame of failed integration should be on Western society, but sadly a big part is integral to the religious beliefs. A believer is basically forced into a schizophrenic parallel life where he/she "tolerates" the society they live in superficially, but has to believe something else entirely (or risks loosing his place in heaven). It is pure fuel for a "they vs. us".

Yeah, it's a complex thing.

I edited my post. But the one question I have for anyone that is educated in the religion: what is the holy texts stance on images depicting their prophet? I know it's forbidden. But does the text actually encourage or make it an obligation for society to remove these pictures? Like the mere existence itself, is so blasphemous, it can't exist?

Or is it more of a personal stance, where the responsibility is on the individual. So the person that depicts the image of the prophet, is then a mortal sinner. I know even the Bible encourages believers to do certain things (like as an obligation/responsibility as followers of God). So I'm kind of curious on this one. IF...the text says the picture can't exist, and therefore it must be taken down, then this is an example of what I was saying about religion clashing with a modern society (where I don't understand how you get past that). Because ultimately, religious views >>> Modern society for people that truly believe in their faith.

But if the text doesn't encourage or put responsibility on people for removing these images, then it doesn't apply to what I was talking about. Although my overall points still stand in a larger sense. Just kind of curious as someone that knows NOTHING about Islam (I am ignorant, I admit).
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Salman Rushdie: ‘I Stand With Charlie Hebdo, as We All Must’

"Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.” –Salman Rushdie
 

Pete Rock

Member
I feel it is relevant to understand that many religions object to this wayward symptom produced through erroneous focus of worship and faith practice which is referred to as idolatry. Not just Islam. Hebrews in particular disallow it in many ways, which is why "God" in their understanding is referred to as "tetragrammaton" or otherwise "unutterable" four character set "YHWH". This idea of idolatry being something to avoid or otherwise blasphemous is not a novel or unique or exclusive concept to any particular religion.

This lack of conceptual understanding will never excuse radical fundamentalist militant behavior such as this. Nothing will. This is disgusting.
 
Salman Rushdie: ‘I Stand With Charlie Hebdo, as We All Must’

"Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.” –Salman Rushdie

Just like his writing skills, he fails at end , specifically the last 3 words
 

Mononoke

Banned
By the way, this whole thing has made me ache. I hate it when things like this happen, and life is taken so senselessly. I can't stand the violence, and all the terrible things people are capable of. Sometimes it's just, really hard to deal with it. It really hurts and makes me sick.

But, I do appreciate GAF having this thread and allowing everyone to express their emotions. A place to allow people to try to come to some understanding, and try to grasp at some order during this time of chaos. I also appreciate people having intelligent discussions, even when the subject matter is complex that can easily derail and go a much different direction.
 

LNBL

Member
Is the footage of the RAID also live? Would it not be in their disadvantage to have this footage shown live?
 
Salman Rushdie: ‘I Stand With Charlie Hebdo, as We All Must’

"Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.” –Salman Rushdie

What the hell? Who is this Rushdie guy and what gives him the right to talk about religious extremism?
 

Cyd0nia

Banned
I hope they do, dying is too good for them.

I keep reading this, but as far as I'm concerned every breath of life on this Earth is a gift. Someone else said we shouldn't do this because we would be 'releasing their souls' from the prospect of punishment. Well I don't think the soul exists. You think they won't talk to people, won't drink things in with their eyes, won't breathe fresh air, taste clean water, eat good food, get the option to read?

PRISON is too good for them.

I am against the death penalty in most instances, I believe in the right to due process and a right of appeal - but these people are a puss filled sore on the rectum of humanity. Their net contribution is a massive deficit: the venemous, virulent preaching, the hate, the pre-culture, pre-historic belief system, the violence.. the infliction of sorrow, mourning and loss on innocent families. The destabilisation of this world for their fellow muslims. It is a bad, terrible, unfortunate thing that these people exist.

Why should we domicile these people in a country they hate, and lock them up in a cell with all that entails - people watching over them, feeding them? I'm reading people saying they hope the perpetrators realise how senseless this is, or that they live to regret it. Am I crazy here, or are they? Because if they're crazy, I highly doubt they ever will regret it! Part of me agrees with you that we should. Kill em with kindness n' all that spare them, give them the usual justice - but if SWAT / RAID go in there and blow their brains out, good riddance. Take the gift they stole, 12 times over.
 
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