Tesla Cybercab moves closer to completion; Tesla receives patent for radically faster Unboxed 2.0 assembly process

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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The Cybercab is Tesla's two seater, no steering wheel autonomous car. It's being designed for cheap mass production, and it's clear with their Robotaxi initiatives in SF and Austin that they plan on it being ready for real world deployment sooner rather than later.

Waymos are already ubiquitous in some US cities, and they've proven to reduce traffic fatalities and serious crashes massively compared with human drivers.

The future is coming.
 
DId they add Lidar to this?
Elon's still pursuing a pure camera-based sensor package for autonomous driving, including the Cybercab, since it's cheaper and retroactively improves the existing Tesla fleet.

Waymo's currently ahead of the game, so there's a strong argument for LiDAR and sensor fusion. But we'll see.
 
The engineering of the automated fabrication and assembly process is what's most impressive to me, just incredible work there. Would it be possible to assemble at this level of efficiency for combustion engine based vehicles? For the sake of simply dropping the ridiculous prices on modern cars, could be very interesting to explore.
 
Is this something to do with the robo taxi thing that crashed three times in 7,000 miles of testing? (Plus another crash that didn't count because it was in a parking lot.)
 
The engineering of the automated fabrication and assembly process is what's most impressive to me, just incredible work there. Would it be possible to assemble at this level of efficiency for combustion engine based vehicles? For the sake of simply dropping the ridiculous prices on modern cars, could be very interesting to explore.
I don't see why ICE vehicles couldn't utilize some aspects of the new assembly process (except for it being patented), but ICE is more complex to manufacture in general since there are more moving parts to deal with.

Electric cars are basically a battery pack sled, so it's possible to radically optimize as we see here.
 
What's Cybercrab? A self-driving taxi? Where's the market for it? I mean, in what locations are they planning to operate?
I'd buy one in a heart beat. I only use the car to go shopping and occasionally down the Pub and it pisses me off walking back the next day to get it with a hangover.

Plus I can pimp it out when I'm not using it rather than my regular car just sat on the driveway losing money. Hope it comes to the UK sooner rather than later.
 
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I'd buy one in a heart beat. I only use the car to go shopping and occasionally down the Pub and it pisses me off walking back the next day to get it with a hangover.

Plus I can pimp it out when I'm not using it rather than my regular car just sat on the driveway losing money. Hope it comes to the UK sooner rather than later.
Are you 'allowed' to be drunk in self driving car? Or is there a distinction between a steering wheel equipped car with auto-drive and these autonomous taxi things?

Having a cheap auto-taxi for date night...nice. And can you use it to pick up kids from soccer practice or have it go get whataburger for them (and avoid the ubereats tax)?

Really, the possibilities of a small autonomous vehicle in an urban area is YUGE.....if people don't start fucking wih them.
 
Are you 'allowed' to be drunk in self driving car? Or is there a distinction between a steering wheel equipped car with auto-drive and these autonomous taxi things?

Having a cheap auto-taxi for date night...nice. And can you use it to pick up kids from soccer practice or have it go get whataburger for them (and avoid the ubereats tax)?

Really, the possibilities of a small autonomous vehicle in an urban area is YUGE.....if people don't start fucking wih them.
If you are I hope they were smart enough to make the inside completely water repellent so at the end of the day they can hose down the insides to remove the all the filth. (They can automate that too right? To get rid of the puke and urine.)
 
What's Cybercrab? A self-driving taxi? Where's the market for it? I mean, in what locations are they planning to operate?

Pretty much. Most of it is hype, there are some serious engineering challenges for these things to work 100%. Some experts agree that you need to change the entire road infrastructure to accommodate these cars without them fumbling, because they can't perceive reality the way living things can, same thing with LLMs and robots. I doubt we will see mass adoption of self driving cars for a long while still.
 
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Are you 'allowed' to be drunk in self driving car? Or is there a distinction between a steering wheel equipped car with auto-drive and these autonomous taxi things?

Having a cheap auto-taxi for date night...nice. And can you use it to pick up kids from soccer practice or have it go get whataburger for them (and avoid the ubereats tax)?

Really, the possibilities of a small autonomous vehicle in an urban area is YUGE.....if people don't start fucking wih them.
No peddles or steering wheel, you absolutely can.

If its a regular car with a self driving mode probably not.

You can just set it to be in the pool of taxis when not in use like an uber so it will earn its keep.

Hurry the fuck up future.
 
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Are you 'allowed' to be drunk in self driving car? Or is there a distinction between a steering wheel equipped car with auto-drive and these autonomous taxi things?

Having a cheap auto-taxi for date night...nice. And can you use it to pick up kids from soccer practice or have it go get whataburger for them (and avoid the ubereats tax)?

Really, the possibilities of a small autonomous vehicle in an urban area is YUGE.....if people don't start fucking wih them.
In current self driving Teslas you must still stay alert while the Tesla takes you places, if not you get strikes against you that disables full self driving.

The Tesla full self driving is really a cool feature as my sons Tesla drives him all over and its amazing to watch it navigate even through round abouts
 
Pretty much. Most of it is hype, there are some serious engineering challenges for these things to work 100%. Some experts agree that ou need to change the entire road infrastructure to accommodate these cars without them fumbling, because they can't perceive reality the way living things can, same thing with LLMs and robots. I doubt we will see mass adoption of self driving cars for a long while still.
Self-driving cars are here already in the States, several major cities including Los Angeles and San Francisco have full adoption.

 
Self-driving cars are here already in the States, several major cities including Los Angeles and San Francisco have full adoption.


I welcome self driving cars because most people are terrible at driving and would rather do anything else besides driving. (It still amazes me the number of people that can't take a turn correctly.)
 
I don't see why ICE vehicles couldn't utilize some aspects of the new assembly process (except for it being patented), but ICE is more complex to manufacture in general since there are more moving parts to deal with.

Electric cars are basically a battery pack sled, so it's possible to radically optimize as we see here.
Yeah that makes sense. I had a friend back in my Seattle days that said as much, said electric cars are much simpler machines despite being much more expensive, due to the battery being the centralized singular component.

Fun fact, about two years ago and some change I saw an electric car battery fire in southern Maine when we were traveling for my daughter's band stuff. There was a collision and the whole road was shut down as the fire was incredibly high, hot, and roaring out of that car. Not saying anything about electric cars, (combustion engines go up like a MF too obviously), but it was quite a site I'll say. Thank goodness there was a really nice coffee shop near where we could just sit and wait for the fire department to clear everything.

I have no point to bringing that up other than talking about electric vehicles reminded me of it :D
 
Yeah that makes sense. I had a friend back in my Seattle days that said as much, said electric cars are much simpler machines despite being much more expensive, due to the battery being the centralized singular component.

Fun fact, about two years ago and some change I saw an electric car battery fire in southern Maine when we were traveling for my daughter's band stuff. There was a collision and the whole road was shut down as the fire was incredibly high, hot, and roaring out of that car. Not saying anything about electric cars, (combustion engines go up like a MF too obviously), but it was quite a site I'll say. Thank goodness there was a really nice coffee shop near where we could just sit and wait for the fire department to clear everything.

I have no point to bringing that up other than talking about electric vehicles reminded me of it :D
Yeah, overall the risk of fire is less with EVs, and the battery packs can be isolated and fire shielded very well, but it's still high density energy.
 
Yeah, overall the risk of fire is less with EVs, and the battery packs can be isolated and fire shielded very well, but it's still high density energy.
Thats what I understand as well; fire risk is definitely lower, but a collision is a collision, and it's a high power battery, so it's gonna happen. At the end of the day, people just need to learn to drive safely and defensively, regardless of what kind of engine they're in.

Another fun fact: My wife goes to UMaine near me in Orono, ME, and there have been two different hit and runs on campus where a car has struck a pedestrian, one of them being my wife's food science teacher which broke her leg, (tragic as she's very sweet and in her late 60's), and one being a student, and both incidents in the exact same spot where there's a stop sign that people love to run, and still the university refuses to put up surveillance. I also got tagged by a hit and run driver in WA, and my wife got tagged by one here in the Subaru. Folks just can't drive anymore :/.
 
Thats what I understand as well; fire risk is definitely lower, but a collision is a collision, and it's a high power battery, so it's gonna happen. At the end of the day, people just need to learn to drive safely and defensively, regardless of what kind of engine they're in.

Another fun fact: My wife goes to UMaine near me in Orono, ME, and there have been two different hit and runs on campus where a car has struck a pedestrian, one of them being my wife's food science teacher which broke her leg, (tragic as she's very sweet and in her late 60's), and one being a student, and both incidents in the exact same spot where there's a stop sign that people love to run, and still the university refuses to put up surveillance. I also got tagged by a hit and run driver in WA, and my wife got tagged by one here in the Subaru. Folks just can't drive anymore :/.
Autonomous driving handles that completely, at least. Waymos drive defensively and obey all the traffic laws. Massive reduction in serious crashes and colliding with pedestrians and cyclists.

Waymo stats:

cjSMXGK5dkpYAH8G.png
 
Thats what I understand as well; fire risk is definitely lower, but a collision is a collision, and it's a high power battery, so it's gonna happen. At the end of the day, people just need to learn to drive safely and defensively, regardless of what kind of engine they're in.

Another fun fact: My wife goes to UMaine near me in Orono, ME, and there have been two different hit and runs on campus where a car has struck a pedestrian, one of them being my wife's food science teacher which broke her leg, (tragic as she's very sweet and in her late 60's), and one being a student, and both incidents in the exact same spot where there's a stop sign that people love to run, and still the university refuses to put up surveillance. I also got tagged by a hit and run driver in WA, and my wife got tagged by one here in the Subaru. Folks just can't drive anymore :/.
Something people don't think about in EVs is the danger of going under guard rails in an accident since guardrails were designed to catch most of the weight of a car from their engine compartment and EVs, especially cars are super heavy much lower to the ground with that battery
 
Yeah that makes sense. I had a friend back in my Seattle days that said as much, said electric cars are much simpler machines despite being much more expensive, due to the battery being the centralized singular component.

Fun fact, about two years ago and some change I saw an electric car battery fire in southern Maine when we were traveling for my daughter's band stuff. There was a collision and the whole road was shut down as the fire was incredibly high, hot, and roaring out of that car. Not saying anything about electric cars, (combustion engines go up like a MF too obviously), but it was quite a site I'll say. Thank goodness there was a really nice coffee shop near where we could just sit and wait for the fire department to clear everything.

I have no point to bringing that up other than talking about electric vehicles reminded me of it :D


A German family recently burned to death in their Tesla because they couldn't get the doors open, kindof feels like they should be fixing that first.
 
Autonomous driving handles that completely, at least. Waymos drive defensively and obey all the traffic laws. Massive reduction in serious crashes and colliding with pedestrians and cyclists.

Waymo stats:

cjSMXGK5dkpYAH8G.png
Honestly? Fuck yeah. I know people are paranoid about them, and I understand that to a degree as it's scary to turn over control to a machine when you're used to driving, but dammit humans are just fucking awful. That's why I'm so pro AI and automation in general; I feel that humans are proving more every day that much of the population can't be trusted to do the right thing, so I'm fine with just relying on machines that have consistently quality programs and routines, as they're simply more trustworthy than people. I honestly can't wait to see these in Maine, though I feel it will be a while for obvious reasons there, what with our tiny population and all :/.
 
Autonomous driving handles that completely, at least. Waymos drive defensively and obey all the traffic laws. Massive reduction in serious crashes and colliding with pedestrians and cyclists.

Waymo stats:

cjSMXGK5dkpYAH8G.png
I've ridden in a Waymo probably 10-15 times, and I felt like it drove completely safely, obnoxiously so, in fact.

During one trip, we were experiencing extremely heavy rain, and the Waymo pulled over for about 15 minutes until the rain calmed down. A normal cabbie probably would have risked it (and more than likely would have been fine, but it still would have been a risk).

The other thing is that Waymos truly obey all traffic laws and speed limits, which just isn't how humans realistically drive. I'm not saying they shouldn't obey traffic laws and speed limits (they absolutely should), but on average, a Waymo trip took about 20-30% longer than the same trip with an Uber driver. Again, I'm an advocate for safety, and so I feel like it's a reasonable trade off… but I wish there was some way to legally and safely have autonomous cars drive a few mph over the speed limit, when the cars around them are doing the same.

In any case, I'd be interested to see the direct tech comparison between the Tesla cab and a Waymo. I definitely feel like the lidar will give Waymo a significant advantage; I was incredibly impressed at how clearly the Waymo could see people and cars that I, myself, could not visibly see. It's really cool how they display that on their dash panel for passengers to view in real-time, and it adds a lot toward building confidence in using autonomous cars.
 
I've ridden in a Waymo probably 10-15 times, and I felt like it drove completely safely, obnoxiously so, in fact.

During one trip, we were experiencing extremely heavy rain, and the Waymo pulled over for about 15 minutes until the rain calmed down. A normal cabbie probably would have risked it (and more than likely would have been fine, but it still would have been a risk).

The other thing is that Waymos truly obey all traffic laws and speed limits, which just isn't how humans realistically drive. I'm not saying they shouldn't obey traffic laws and speed limits (they absolutely should), but on average, a Waymo trip took about 20-30% longer than the same trip with an Uber driver. Again, I'm an advocate for safety, and so I feel like it's a reasonable trade off… but I wish there was some way to legally and safely have autonomous cars drive a few mph over the speed limit, when the cars around them are doing the same.

In any case, I'd be interested to see the direct tech comparison between the Tesla cab and a Waymo. I definitely feel like the lidar will give Waymo a significant advantage; I was incredibly impressed at how clearly the Waymo could see people and cars that I, myself, could not visibly see. It's really cool how they display that on their dash panel for passengers to view in real-time, and it adds a lot toward building confidence in using autonomous cars.
Yeah, Waymo's definitely slower than the typical Uber driver, but the cars are clean, you can speak freely, connect your Spotify, and it's ~10x safer. The trade offs are worth it I think.

Teslas show that kind of live view too and correctly identify objects well. But with autonomous driving it's all about the 0.1% edge cases, and LiDAR sensor fusion makes more sense to me than camera-only setups for poor visibility situations and avoiding mislabeling.
 
I just hope Tesla doesn't ruin the entire industry by trying to catch up to Waymo. That is what took Cruise down, they were cutting corners and flew too close to the sun.
 
Autonomous driving handles that completely, at least. Waymos drive defensively and obey all the traffic laws. Massive reduction in serious crashes and colliding with pedestrians and cyclists.
Wow, that would mean if they had them here in Massachusetts and they ever went on the highway they'd stick to the right most lane, which is literally the travel lane and the lane you're supposed to use. For those that don't know in Mass you're literally supposed to stay in the right most lane on the highway except for passing. The irony? So many people use the other lanes that often you can go the fastest in the right most lane because it's empty.
 
Wow, that would mean if they had them here in Massachusetts and they ever went on the highway they'd stick to the right most lane, which is literally the travel lane and the lane you're supposed to use. For those that don't know in Mass you're literally supposed to stay in the right most lane on the highway except for passing. The irony? So many people use the other lanes that often you can go the fastest in the right most lane because it's empty.
This is more like an Earth phenomenon than a Massachusetts thing.
 
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This is more like an Earth phenomenon than a Massachusetts thing.
Just to be clear on this, various states have various rules on driving in the left lane. Mass is nice in that the rule is simple, the travel lane is the right most lane, the other lanes are passing lanes. But like you've noticed, most people ignore it. (About the only way to get pulled over for it is if you drive in the left lane so obliviously that you didn't notice the statie that you've been holding up for 30 seconds to a minute. They hate that.)
 
Just to be clear on this, various states have various rules on driving in the left lane. Mass is nice in that the rule is simple, the travel lane is the right most lane, the other lanes are passing lanes. But like you've noticed, most people ignore it. (About the only way to get pulled over for it is if you drive in the left lane so obliviously that you didn't notice the statie that you've been holding up for 30 seconds to a minute. They hate that.)

They can make whatever law they want, but if they don't enforce it, then it's irrelevant. I just took a 4 hour drive to go see a concert and probably passed 20 of those signs telling me to keep right and only use the left lane for passing. I was doing 10mph over the limit in the left lane the entire way there and back, as were most of the other cars on the road. I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for driving in the left lane. Speeding yes, but not for just driving in the left lane.

Maybe that's just Oklahoma & Texas Highway Patrol not caring?
 
Elon's still pursuing a pure camera-based sensor package for autonomous driving, including the Cybercab, since it's cheaper and retroactively improves the existing Tesla fleet.

Waymo's currently ahead of the game, so there's a strong argument for LiDAR and sensor fusion. But we'll see.
This will eventually be proven incorrect but a lot of people still cling to the LIDAR delusion in the hopes that Elon will somehow fail

Never mind that Elon uses LIDAR where it's needed and knows what it's good for and it isn't



 


Elon warned the entire industry back in 2019, let's see how Waymo handles it when Robotaxi starts rolling out nationwide very quickly. Waymo has been around for 6 years now and hasn't hardly done anything to increase its service footprint

FSD v14 is supposed to be released this year, possibly before the shareholders' meeting in November
 
This will eventually be proven incorrect but a lot of people still cling to the LIDAR delusion in the hopes that Elon will somehow fail

Never mind that Elon uses LIDAR where it's needed and knows what it's good for and it isn't
Elon's word isn't gospel. More high quality sensory data > less sensory data, when utilized well.

Elon's hope is that, with enough data and computation, the camera-only solution will bridge the gap in time. There are advantages there—cheaper, retroactive support with the existing Tesla fleet, and streamlined compared to Waymo's ugly, bulky sensor package. That's his wager. Will it pay off? Maybe so, but FSD is currently still inferior to Waymo. FSD has been unable to get to that final 1% of usability for over a decade now, though it has improved significantly. Waymo is there now.

There are incentives for Elon to claim that sensor fusion is inferior and LiDAR is unnecessary. He is not an unbiased player.
 
Elon's word isn't gospel. More high quality sensory data > less sensory data, when utilized well.

Elon's hope is that, with enough data and computation, the camera-only solution will bridge the gap in time. There are advantages there—cheaper, retroactive support with the existing Tesla fleet, and streamlined compared to Waymo's ugly, bulky sensor package. That's his wager. Will it pay off? Maybe so, but FSD is currently still inferior to Waymo. FSD has been unable to get to that final 1% of usability for over a decade now, though it has improved significantly. Waymo is there now.

There are incentives for Elon to claim that sensor fusion is inferior and LiDAR is unnecessary. He is not an unbiased player.
The problem of sensor contention when achieving sensor fusion is unsolved, because on a fundamental level the visible spectrum has different wavelengths than LIDAR and therefore the two technologies "see" differently. Humans never need to achieve sensor fusion, we have only our eyes, and yet humans can drive safely when they are alert and paying attention

Saying FSD is inferior to Waymo is highly incorrect at this point in time. Have you been driven by FSD v13 in a recent model Tesla? It handles a variety of situations already that Waymo doesn't, including navigating through parking lots, transitioning between surface streets and freeway driving while doing both on the same software stack, makes U-turns when needed automatically, intelligently detects and avoids road obstructions in busy metro areas like NYC, and generally offers a smooth and "human-like" driving profile. There are numerous videos on Youtube showing the progress of FSD in real time, nothing that Tesla does is a mystery. I rarely see anyone make videos of Waymo

FSD v14 will finally add the ability for the car to find a parking space and park itself in a parking lot. It already correctly enters, navigates, and exits parking lots in the current v13

Elon's incentive for claiming LIDAR is unnecessary is that he determined it is unnecessary back in 2019 and his goal is to solve self driving in a manner which is more similar to how humans drive, using our eyes. In the end, most additional data that LIDAR adds is completely superfluous, otherwise why are humans able to successfully drive cars?
 
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The problem of sensor contention when achieving sensor fusion is unsolved, because on a fundamental level the visible spectrum has different wavelengths than LIDAR and therefore the two technologies "see" differently. Humans never need to achieve sensor fusion, we have only our eyes, and yet humans can drive safely when they are alert and paying attention

Saying FSD is inferior to Waymo is highly incorrect at this point in time. Have you been driven by FSD v13 in a recent model Tesla? It handles a variety of situations already that Waymo doesn't, including navigating through parking lots, transitioning between surface streets and freeway driving while doing both on the same software stack, intelligently detects and avoids road obstructions in busy metro areas like NYC, and generally offers a smooth and "human-like" driving profile. There are numerous videos on Youtube showing the progress of FSD in real time, nothing that Tesla does is a mystery. I rarely see anyone make videos of Waymo

FSD v14 will finally add the ability for the car to find a parking space and park itself in a parking lot. It already correctly enters, navigates, and exits parking lots in the current v13

Elon's incentive for claiming LIDAR is unnecessary is that he determined it is unnecessary back in 2019 and his goal is to solve self driving in a manner which is more similar to how humans drive, using our eyes. In the end, most additional data that LIDAR adds is completely superfluous, otherwise why are humans able to successfully drive cars?
Waymos are currently logging millions of miles without anyone in the driver's seat. FSD 13 still needs supervision. Yes, FSD can be used in a wider variety of circumstances, but in the scenarios where Waymos are used (city driving) FSD still can't be trusted to operate fully autonomously. Tesla is aiming to solve that, but has been aiming to for a very long time. A skeptical posture is reasonable at this point until the results are live. Clearly Tesla's confidence is growing, as we see with the Cybercab approaching completion and Robotaxi trials expanding rapidly.

Camera sensors are not 1:1 equivalent to human eyes. Tesla FSD camera systems need to infer depth using a camera array and ML. No, humans do not have LiDAR, but can perceive depth effectively. Also, humans are not great drivers, statistically. Autonomous driving needs to far exceed the average human driver in order to achieve widespread acceptance.
 
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