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The 100 S3 |OT| Adventures In Character Assassination - Thursdays 9/8c

M

Matt

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
Destroying Mt. Weather wasn't the end goal, though, it was just one possible means to the real target of stopping the harvesting and reaping. She was able to do that and free hundreds (I am guessing at that number) of bloodbags and stop the fighting amongst the rest of her warriors and remove the entire reason for conflict between Mt Weather and the grounders, all at once. Of course, I'm sure they would've eventually come into territorial conflict, but that's a much more theoretical and abstract threat. The decision only makes "no sense" if you're being deliberately obtuse about it.
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It's a horrible strategic decision to leave Mt. Weather still standing. and relies on Lexa putting her trust in a power that both thinks nothing of the value of their lives, and has the power to utterly dominate them. Once Mt. Weather is back up to strength, what reason would they have to honor their agreement, and what power would Lexa have to enforce it?
 
M

Matt

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
They're considerably weakened at the point where the finale occurs, with no missiles left and no acid fog. What reason would they have to arbitrarily move against the Grounders if they don't need their blood/bone marrow supply anymore, anyway?
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Lexa has no reason to think the acid fog can't be repaired, or that they could not build more missiles.

The point is, she had their worst enemy on the ropes, and they didn't get the job done because, well, because it was more dramatic. I don't think Lexa got to where she was by being weak or afraid of bloodshed, and I don't think her people would have been tolerant of her leadership when the next conflict between them and Mt. Weather came around.
 
M

Matt

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
You still didn't answer my question; but I suspect you have no answer since there really isn't any reason for Mt. Weather to bother the Grounders after they've obtained that sweet Sky People bone marrow. Their inability to live outside was the entire source of that conflict. Cage may have been a stupid and reckless racist, but Dante was merely a racist, hence offering them the deal.

Anyway, Lexa's power to enforce any of her decisions lies in the strength of her coalition - which, as you can see, is falling apart without Mt. Weather as a common, unifying enemy anyway. Had they defeated the Mountain the Ice Nation almost certainly would have begun rebelling, just as they are now that Clarke's killed them all. The whole point of the show is that there are no perfect decisions or choices, only difficult ones with troubling and lasting consequences.

Of course it's more dramatic and unexpected to go the route they did - it's a tv show. Should it be less dramatic and more predictable? I don't really know how to respond to that.
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First of all, why are you being so aggressive? We're having a discussion about the motivations of a fictional TV character. It's not really that big a deal.

Secondly, what was the reason for the Grounders to go after they Sky People like they did? Because it's a harsh world and everything you have is something that other people want. Mt. Weather has shown in every way possible that they think nothing of the Grounders, they considering them savages, and they have really no issue murdering and enslaving them for their own ends. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that conflicts between them will arise in the future, especially considering the fact that since the Mountain Men will be living on the ground now, they will need more space, and will inevitably want the best land, which is probably already claimed by the Coalition.

Lastly, of course the show should be dramatic. I just don't like it being dramatic at the expense of proper characterization, which the show has absolutely done at several other points (this very thread's title being a comment on that).
 
M

Matt

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
Oh boy...I wasn't trying to be aggressive, lol, but I'm sorry if I came off that way? I can be a rude bitch sometimes but I genuinely wasn't meaning to.
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It was calling me "deliberately obtuse" and implying I was purposefully avoiding discussion topics that I took as aggressive, or at least unduly rude. But no worries, conveying or interpreting tone over the internet can be tricky sometimes.

icarus-daedelus said:
Well, the Grounders went after the Sky People because they invaded their territory first, but sure. It's not unreasonable to assume that conflicts will arise in the future, but that happens in basically any of the available scenarios anyway. Such as the coalition falling apart after the defeat of Mt. Weather. She ultimately got hundreds (or thousands) of people out of the mountain scot free, versus sacrificing potentially all of them for a potential military victory against an entrenched enemy that wasn't really guaranteed. Shrug, I guess.
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If it was thousands of Grounders that were set free I can understand the argument a bit more. Really from what we saw it seemed more like dozens, but that could just be the show's budget constrictions.

Also from the situation when the turn happened, it really seemed to me that victory was basically assured, though there would have been casualties.

Really what it comes down to in my mind is that Mt. Weather logically represented too big of a threat to be allowed to continue. A treaty between the Sky People and the Coalition makes sense because, while the Sky People are strong, they aren't too strong, and the Coalition could destroy them if they had to. Mt. Weather, however, has always dominated the Grounders, and except for this one opportunity, they probably will always have that ability. Letting them continue seems like an incredibly poor decision, and paints Lexa as weak, worried too much about how she could fail, rather then seizing the opportunity in front of her. I'm surprised there was no scene with the other leaders of the tribes, demanding the war continue. Maybe that would have been a good opportunity to have Lexa explain her reasoning.
 
J

Joni

Member
The Sky People seem a lot stronger than the Mount Weather people were. They can work around freely, there are more of them, and they now have both the weaponry of Weather and themselves.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Am I misremembering or were the people on the Arc supposed to be slightly stronger due to living under artificial gravity that was a little higher than Earth's?
 
J

JacketsNest101

Member
Matt said:
Lexa has no reason to think the acid fog can't be repaired, or that they could not build more missiles.

The point is, she had their worst enemy on the ropes, and they didn't get the job done because, well, because it was more dramatic. I don't think Lexa got to where she was by being weak or afraid of bloodshed, and I don't think her people would have been tolerant of her leadership when the next conflict between them and Mt. Weather came around.
Click to expand...

Thing is, by taking that deal, she ensured that if it did come to a fight, they would fight her on her terms and her turf. Remember, all she has to do is avoid the mountain, she does that and they can live their lives for all she cares. They don't know the terrain like a grounder does, so if it came to a fight, my money is on the grounders. Also, the acid fog was a defensive measure, it was never meant as an offensive weapon.
 
E

EdibleExplosives

Member
Matt said:
Except then there would still be this power that was a danger to her. She already seemingly lost more people in the war then she got back from them, hell allowing her camp to be bombed alone cost more people. What was the point of the war if not to destroy Mount Weather and remove them and the Reapers from the field?
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She chose the truce over going to war, because she believed Mount Weather wouldn't need to fight with the grounders anymore. She chose that over risking her own people in a war.
Whether or not you agree with that choice is another matter, but it did make sense.
 
T

TripOpt55

Member
Amazing episode. I was just looking forward to getting more Lexa, seeing more of Polis, and getting a better feel for the Grounder politics this week. I ended up getting that and so much more. Crazy twisty episode. Love this show.
 
T

tearsintherain

Member
I honestly have no idea whats going on. What the hell is the strategy between Lexa and Clarke? Who is the dude hanging out next to the Ice Queen who presumably knew the self destruct code for the Mount Weather? I think it might be the security chief from there, but I thought he died? Guess not?

Damn Gaeta, the first thing you shoulda done when moving into Mt Weather was change all the passwords. Adama would be really disappointed in you.

I hope they are back ending more of the city of light stuff, I like that plot a lot more than more eternal warfare between the clans.
 
I

IKizzLE

Member
tearsintherain said:
I honestly have no idea whats going on. What the hell is the strategy between Lexa and Clarke? Who is the dude hanging out next to the Ice Queen who presumably knew the self destruct code for the Mount Weather? I think it might be the security chief from there, but I thought he died? Guess not?

Damn Gaeta, the first thing you shoulda done when moving into Mt Weather was change all the passwords. Adama would be really disappointed in you.

I hope they are back ending more of the city of light stuff, I like that plot a lot more than more eternal warfare between the clans.
Click to expand...

No idea whats going on?
Ice nation wants a war. Ice Queen wants Lexa's position.

Strategy?
Lexa wants Wanheda (The woman who defeated the mountain men) to have her and her people join the coalition so they can seem all powerful and no one would dare to revolt.

Who is that dude hanging with the Ice Queen?
Remember in season 2, they caught one of the mountain men who was trying to take out lexa/clarke? The same dude they told to give a message back to the mountain men? Same dude who made a deal with Lexa to get the grounders? Yea, that dude. He knows the launch codes.

I think you might want to rewatch some of the older seasons. Pretty easy to follow so far.
 
S

Sober

Member
Wait, at the end that was the Ice Queen's entourage right? Not the delegates of the 12 clans, or am I just bad at faces?
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
THIS FUCKING SHOW!!!!

I love it. This is going to be one amazing season, I'm still secretly hoping every episode for Clarke or one of the Ark crew to murder Lexa and claim rule over all the Grounder clans. Fuck all this Coalition noise and clans, "One Realm, One God, One King/Queen!"

Alastor3 said:
Aight, I will try.

Well, if they expect them to die, why send them? Even if they are ''criminals'' they still are the future of the population remaining (for like 4 months tho).

Im sad at the end of the pilot that
that dude died by a javelin, I wanted him to get with the mean girl... I just don't want f- love triangle again
Click to expand...

Keep watching.

As to your question, the Ark has a population crisis and will soon run out of Oxygen by shipping these young folk to the Ground they hope to prolong their oxygen supply a little longer and hopefully, in a Hail Mary pass, discover the Ground is habitable for human life again. The original premise is a bit contrived as surely they could have sent some unwarranted or even volunteer adults with them but just go with it.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
So long to the 30 faceless ark people who just recently showed up and Bellamy's off season girlfriend, we hardly knew ye.


This shit is gonna get intense.
 
N

NightOnyx

Member
Another awesome episode, man this show is fantastic! All the grounder stuff is super interesting, I love learning more about their politics and stuff. All the Clexa stuff continues to be great as well, and they are totally married now imo. lol. Poor Belemy had a rough episode though, but what else is new for him. He needs a win in the worst way. Also, I thought that assassin was pretty cool, I would've liked to have see more of him.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Lexa did the Ice Nation's messenger like 300. Haha damn.

Glad we got a quiet moment between Octavia and Bellamy. Octavia especially has grown so much from Season 1. She went from token hot chick in the first 2 episodes, to one of the more reasonable and useful members of the group.

I knew Bellamy's boo was going to die eventually. Didn't think it would be this soon. Now Bellamy is going to come after Echo, she played them so badly.

This episode was brutal. I honestly thought they would be able to stop the self destruct sequence. So many swerves. This show doesn't waste any time at all.

I feel like by the end of the season we'll have Punished Clarke. No people, only pain.
 
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