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The 100 S3 |OT| Adventures In Character Assassination - Thursdays 9/8c

E

EdibleExplosives

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Remainder of season 3 episode titles confirmed

3x08:
Terms and Conditions
3x09:
Stealing Fire
3x10:
Fallen
3x11:
Nevermore
3x:12:
Demons
3x13:
Join or Die
3x14:
Red Dawn at Morning
3x15: unknown
3x16: unknown
Click to expand...

Hmm, I remember Kim Shumway basically saying she expected a strong reaction to episode 11's title. I'm guessing it'll make sense in the episodes leading up to it.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
EdibleExplosives said:
Hmm, I remember Kim Shumway basically saying she expected a strong reaction to episode 11's title. I'm guessing it'll make sense in the episodes leading up to it.
Click to expand...

Found a nice speculation post on Tumblr, I'll post it here with spoiler tags just to be safe. Not my original post.

“Nevermore” is the Raven’s famous quote from Edgar Allen Poe’s poem The Raven. It’s a poem about a man trying to forget the woman he lost and slowly going insane with grief when a prophetesque raven flies into his room.

Here’s a quick summary of the important bits:

The writer is sitting alone in his room, trying to forget his lost love.
He imagines knockings at his door to find no one there in this dark and eerie atmosphere.
A raven suddenly flies in and perches on a bust of Pallas.
The writer is amused by Raven at first.
He questions Raven on trivial things, but gets the same answer each time “Nevermore.”
The writer says Raven will leave him like everyone else, and Raven counters with “Nevermore.”
When he thinks of his lost love again, and a fix-it-all is offered. He wants to drink this potion and forget it all.
Through his grief, he is still unsettled of how unphased Raven is.
He asks Raven if there is peace and comfort in the future.
He asks will he get to see his love again in Aidenn.
He screams for Raven to leave him alone, but he never truly leaves. The writer’s soul is imprisoned by the shadow Raven casts, and he descends into madness.

We can draw a lot of parallels to The 100 from the poem.

At the beginning, Raven is seen as a friend, then a prophet offering vague, repeating answers. He sits on a statue of Pallas, another name for Athena, The Goddess of Wisdom. The writer is asking you to decide if the Raven is wise or just a mimic.

How many times have we heard “There is no pain in the City of Light.” “No pain, no hate, no envy.”


"Quoth the Raven “Nevermore.”
[…]
“But the Raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.”

Raven puts his entire soul into that one phrase, he believes it through and through. Reyes is transfixed on the chip. She has experienced it and pushes other people to give into it.


“Nothing farther then he uttered—not a feather then he fluttered—
Till I scarcely more than muttered “Other friends have flown before—
On the morrow he will leave me, as my Hopes have flown before.”
Then the bird said “Nevermore.””

You can imagine Clarke as the writer, telling Raven she’ll leave or die, just like everybody else. But Raven insists she won’t, there is a place for everyone, a place where no one is left behind.


“This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion’s velvet lining that the lamp-light gloated o’er,
But whose velvet-violet lining with the lamp-light gloating o’er,
She shall press, ah, nevermore!””

Clarke takes a second to just sit and think until her mind wanders back to the reality that Lexa is gone.


“Respite—respite and nepenthe from thy memories of Lenore;
Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost Lenore!”
Quoth the Raven “Nevermore.””

She is grief-stricken. Raven brings with her a way out, a nepenthe, a drug for sorrow, and Clarke is tempted to quaff, or in this case, eat it. So Raven prompts again “No pain, no hate, no envy”


“Prophet!” said I, “thing of evil!—prophet still, if bird or devil!—
Whether Tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted”

Clarke is a bit freaked out by Raven’s disposition now, no surprise there. But she goes on to ask:


“On this home by Horror haunted – tell me truly, I implore –
Is there – is there balm in Gilead? – tell me – tell me, I implore!“
Quoth the Raven “Nevermore.””

Clarke is falling apart here. So haunted by this world, she needs to know is there peace in her future. But of course, she’s met with the same response “No pain, no hate, no envy”


“Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels name Lenore—
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore.”
Quoth the Raven “Nevermore.””

She tries again, and could be asking will she get to see her beloved again within Aden if he become Commander. It’s creepy and I love it.

Aidenn is a name for Heaven, so she could be asking will she see Lexa on the other side. Again, “No pain, no hate, no envy”


"Be that word our sign in parting, bird or fiend!” I shrieked, upstarting –
“Get thee back into the tempest and the Night’s Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! – quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!”

Clarke loses it. She quite literally tells her to go to hell, to stop making her feel worse with her nonsense words and let her grieve alone.


“And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon’s that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted – nevermore!”

Raven may have left, but Alie looms over Arkadia, slowly drawing people into her City of Light, holding souls under siege.

That glassy eyed look and unsettling smile of peace that folks Jaha has chipped could be compared to a dreaming demon. 312 is aptly names “Demons”.
Click to expand...
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
I can't believe Lexa is dead.
I can't believe this.
uzYKott.gif

Lexa was life.
 
T

tearsintherain

Member
I wonder what the fan reaction will be when Jasper dies

Jasper is going to become immortal isn't he

But seriously some of those tumblr posts and even the posts on this page are a bit scary, I like the show but damn I had no idea there were so many people so emotionally invested in these characters. I guess my idea of killing all the characters off every season and introducing new ones at the finale for next season would not go over very well.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
tearsintherain said:
But seriously some of those tumblr posts and even the posts on this page are a bit scary, I like the show but damn I had no idea there were so many people so emotionally invested in these characters.
Click to expand...

Same. But I guess there has been some evidence for LGBT characters becoming the new red-shirts of the TV industry.

As far as Alycia is concerned, she's doing what's best for her future. I didn't like her character on FtWD nearly as much as Lexa, but Walking Dead is insanely hot right now, and I'm sure Fear the Walking Dead has more seasons left in it than The 100 at this point. It's purely about job security for her, and I think she made the right call.
 
J

Joni

Member
Freezasaurus said:
Same. But I guess there has been some evidence for LGBT characters becoming the new red-shirts of the TV industry.
Click to expand...

In a show that has killed hundreds of characters it is however a weird argument to make. This is including the lead character of the book, and the first love interest of the main character. It was a sad death, but this isn't a show where all the fan-favorite character will make it to the end.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
Joni said:
In a show that has killed hundreds of characters it is however a weird argument to make. This is including the lead character of the book, and the first love interest of the main character. It was a sad death, but this isn't a show where all the fan-favorite character will make it to the end.
Click to expand...

Although I'm sure they have better odds than in GoT.
 
J

Joni

Member
Freezasaurus said:
Although I'm sure they have better odds than in GoT.
Click to expand...
I'm not even sure about that. I can see
Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Arya, Rickon, Bran and Sansa
make it to the end in Game of Thrones. Like any twist with them until the very end would seem like a fake-out at least. And that is only because I think Dany could die. In hindsight, Game of Thrones has killed very little actual main characters, of the 14 big POV characters
just Dad Stark and Mom Stark who came back.
. Two more if you count
Quentin and Oakheart
. I have Clarke and Bellamy as won't die characters on The 100. Jasper or Monty will die this season, Octavia is the type that might go out in a blaze of glory, Raven is kinda on thin ice, and the adults are useless.
 
PepperedHam

PepperedHam

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
It's not confirmed at this point obviously so I'm not gonna post it, but I guess they invited fans to watch the finale being filmed and now, in their anger, they're leaking what they saw. And it's the fucking worst.
Click to expand...
What's the worst? The fans being shitty and leaking things out of childish spite or the actual finale?
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
I can't imagine things getting any worse.
I don't know, maybe I'm crazy.
Lexa was the closest thing to Xena I remember in recent times.
Absurd to see a fantastic character to be offed in a such a way.
Meanwhile Jasper is still around, Bellamy's on that devil's dandruff, and a whole boatload of other shit happening that doesn't make any sense to me.
 
E

EdibleExplosives

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Found a nice speculation post on Tumblr, I'll post it here with spoiler tags just to be safe. Not my original post.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, that was really interesting. I knew the overall idea behind
The Raven poem
but have never actually read it myself.
The speculation fits perfectly, I'll be surprised if this isn't the case.
 
J

Joni

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Both? I mean it IS shitty that it's getting leaked, I'm not even gonna deny it. But it's just like...it's a "rub salt in the wounds" kind of finale and in that regard I have zero sympathy.
Click to expand...

And it is probably completely out of context. Unless of course CLarke jumps into bed with Bellamy and forgets about Lexa immediately.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Joni said:
And it is probably completely out of context. Unless of course CLarke jumps into bed with Bellamy and forgets about Lexa immediately.
Click to expand...

Well I mean seeing as how there's also speculation that Clarke and
Ontari
are gonna bang because SPIRIT OF THE COMMANDER I wouldn't be surprised.
 
J

Joni

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Well I mean seeing as how there's also speculation that Clarke and
Ontari
are gonna bang because SPIRIT OF THE COMMANDER I wouldn't be surprised.
Click to expand...

So basically it would be bad because Clarke is cheating on Lexa with a reincarnated Lexa? That would seem like another fatal flaw in the Ice Queen plan though.
 
B

BewareTheBatsie

Member
Joni said:
So basically it would be bad because Clarke is cheating on Lexa with a reincarnated Lexa? That would seem like another fatal flaw in the Ice Queen plan though.
Click to expand...
It seems heavily implied Clarke more or less calls BS on the whole incarnation of the spirit thing, or at least her facial expressions every time it is discussed seem to scream 'what the hell are you talking about'. Also is this reincarnation thing something like only they feel Lexa inside them a la the Avatar or would it literally be like Lexa in someone else?
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Joni said:
So basically it would be bad because Clarke is cheating on Lexa with a reincarnated Lexa? That would seem like another fatal flaw in the Ice Queen plan though.
Click to expand...

BewareTheBatsie said:
It seems heavily implied Clarke more or less calls BS on the whole incarnation of the spirit thing, or at least her facial expressions every time it is discussed seem to scream 'what the hell are you talking about'. Also is this reincarnation thing something like only they feel Lexa inside them a la the Avatar or would it literally be like Lexa in someone else?
Click to expand...

It would be bad because now you've got Clarke being portrayed as a total whore just because she's grieving. Baby girl deserves better than that. It's degrading to women and to the LGBTQ community.

As for the rest of it,
all of Lexa's memories and her consciousness are stored in the AI, which will be implanted in the next commander. So like, whoever is chosen would see and understand the relationship that they had. So yeah, it's like of like Avatar, but it's more...they're still separate people; it's not true reincarnation. Maybe memory reincarnation is a better term. It's why Lexa dreamt of what past commanders had experienced.
 
PepperedHam

PepperedHam

Member
Well glad I gotta tread lightly on the internet now thanks to people getting their justice.

This show's fandom is something else. I guess this is what I get for watching the first two seasons in my Netflix bubble and then jumping into reddit/twitter after I caught up. I always have a much better time watching a show when I stay away from twitter and reddit.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
PepperedHam said:
Well glad I gotta tread lightly on the internet now thanks to people getting their justice.

This show's fandom is something else. I guess this is what I get for watching the first two seasons in my Netflix bubble and then jumping into reddit/twitter after I caught up. I always have a much better time watching a show when I stay away from twitter and reddit.
Click to expand...

Mostly the spoilers are on Tumblr / Twitter, just stay away from The 100 tag. And again, nothing is confirmed.
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
Walking Dead was definitely the right choice for her, still sucks though.
 
S

Sober

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
[screams into the abyss]

IT'S NOT ABOUT HER DYING IT'S ABOUT THE FANS BEING QUEERBAITED TO SHIT.
Click to expand...
I do have an actual question about this concern.

I am curious to know if in this particular instance it was due to whatever was in the text (i.e. the show itself) or are we talking specifically about things outside of the text, like interviews (esp. with Rothenberg), and also avenues where fans could technically engage with the creators (twitter, tumblr, etc.)

Not attempting to shift blame or anything. I do understand particular parts of the fandom (especially the ones I'm concerned about here) are typically fairly active and outspoken. I did not interpret anything in the text that amounts to 'queerbaiting' (although to be fair, I might not be able to spot it) and I usually keep away even from interviews with the creators (because they usually lie through their teeth because they don't want to give away spoilers, or whatever else). So I'm curious just exactly where this sort of all lies. If I've missed obvious tells in the text (or my interpretation is all off) by all means correct me. I'm just wondering how everything seems to intersect here.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Sober said:
I do have an actual question about this concern.

I am curious to know if in this particular instance it was due to whatever was in the text (i.e. the show itself) or are we talking specifically about things outside of the text, like interviews (esp. with Rothenberg), and also avenues where fans could technically engage with the creators (twitter, tumblr, etc.)

Not attempting to shift blame or anything. I do understand particular parts of the fandom (especially the ones I'm concerned about here) are typically fairly active and outspoken. I did not interpret anything in the text that amounts to 'queerbaiting' (although to be fair, I might not be able to spot it) and I usually keep away even from interviews with the creators (because they usually lie through their teeth because they don't want to give away spoilers, or whatever else). So I'm curious just exactly where this sort of all lies. If I've missed obvious tells in the text (or my interpretation is all off) by all means correct me. I'm just wondering how everything seems to intersect here.
Click to expand...

Basically Jason has been telling us ever since Clexa became a thing that they're meant for each other, that it's not about being gay or any defined labels; that's just who they are. Two people who love each other. And for a community who feels so utterly underrepresented in the media...man, you don't even know how important it was. And now on Twitter, he's going back and saying that "she wasn't a lesbian, she was gay" and lying to the fans about her schedule with FTWD (he claims that she had to be on set the very next day after shooting the death, even though AMC has claimed that they were willing to negotiate the terms of her contract to get her a recurring role...whatever, it's very nitpicky at this point). And not only that, but the cast themselves have been tweeting things hinting at them not being happy with JRoth either (Lindsay Morgan is a good example of this), but they can't outright say anything because they're still employed by him. Even the writers, on Tumblr, have been very good about answering fan questions and saying stuff like "we just do what he tells us". All in all, he wanted to kill her for two reasons. One, shock factor. Two, to further the AI storyline. Which just feels cheap because I can guarantee if you sit down and think it through, you can find a way to do both of those that don't include killing off one of the most influential characters on the show. He's also been saying stuff like "Why do you care about the characters? Care about the story!!"

So to better answer your question, it's both. It's both the way the show was presented (Clarke forgiving Lexa, having a beautiful and tender love scene and confession only to have her die two minutes later) and also how the creator himself has been presenting it. There's so much information involved (tweets, Tumblr posts, etc.) that I can't possibly post it all. I'd like to, but I'm nursing a headache. If you'd like, I'd recommend going to Kim Shumway's Tumblr and Twitter, and also to Jason's Twitter, to start. There's such an outpouring of support from everyone who isn't Jason, it just kind of makes it all the more obvious that no one is happy with his decision. I hope that answers your question.

There's also this post on Tumblr, which shows just a glimpse into the Dead Gay trope. It's a pattern that fans were hoping would be broken with Clexa, but instead, Jason just proved he was like most other showrunners.
 
J

JacketsNest101

Member
PepperedHam said:
Well glad I gotta tread lightly on the internet now thanks to people getting their justice.

This show's fandom is something else. I guess this is what I get for watching the first two seasons in my Netflix bubble and then jumping into reddit/twitter after I caught up. I always have a much better time watching a show when I stay away from twitter and reddit.
Click to expand...

With exception of this fallout, The 100's reddit sub has been pretty decent to downright civilized.
 
S

Somnia

Member
I know everyone has strong feelings on this episode and what happened.

What I will say, despite how over the top some of the fandom has been (regarding death threats) the fact this show has brought about such an emotional response and discussion shows how successful they have been.

For some people they never knew about the tropes of a gay couple being killed on TV after finding happiness, this has brought it to a lot of peoples attention.

On top of that it's clear they have been very successful in getting millions of people emotionally attached to this world and the characters in it. That's the sign of a show that has something special.

I will be here till the end and I hope everyone sticks with it.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
I'm also going to link this post from one of the writers. I just remembered it and thought it would be a good example for my above post. This too.

So basically you've got Jason and whoever else thinking that they had enough LGBTQ representation and that killing her off would be fine. I think this angers me more than anything else, to think that we would be treated this way. That it was "good enough".
 
S

Somnia

Member
kirblar said:
This is a (rather big) trope w/ straight pairings as well, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Yes, but there are plenty of happy straight pairings and straight pairings that end in happiness. That isn't the case with LGBTQ relationships.

To Dragonz, at least they are discussing this openly and admitting their mistake. That's a positive to take from this.

With where the story was headed, she was going to die no matter what. It's mainly how she died that bothered me.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
kirblar said:
This is a (rather big) trope w/ straight pairings as well, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Somnia beat me to what I was going to say. But as an add on, we get so little positive representation as it is, it's just heartbreaking to think that I can't even remember the last time a gay or lesbian couple made it to the end. And we were led to believe that Clexa would be it. It's just disheartening.

She deserved to die in a positive way at least. In battle, maybe, or something pursuing her ideal of peace. Preferably for love, doing what she thought was right and protecting those she cared about most. Something that fit with her character. Not from an accident and a stray bullet.
 
K

kirblar

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Somnia beat me to what I was going to say. But as an add on, we get so little positive representation as it is, it's just heartbreaking to think that I can't even remember the last time a gay or lesbian couple made it to the end. And we were led to believe that Clexa would be it. It's just disheartening.
Click to expand...
Spartacus comes to mind.

Putting them together was a mistake. Having her die before they actually get something going (in a tragic "life is too short" way) would have been way more brutal emotionally without the bait/switch trope.
 
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