Link? The only thing I found said he couldn't find the source.
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The 100 S3 |OT| Adventures In Character Assassination - Thursdays 9/8c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Link? The only thing I found said he couldn't find the source.
Actually it sounded more like bad stuff happened to other people and he intervened or stoood up to it and got punished/demoted for it - but who knows exactly.
lol...okay that makes sense. Sucks to hear such stories about a show i like from time to time. Maybe that why i didnt get the uproar from the LBGT community when Lexa died - im used to Black characters getting the Walking Dead treatment since like forever. This wouldnt be enough for me to turn or hate a show, if the rest holds up.
figadapaura
Member
Might take me a while to find the actual source. It was posted on Twitter by people who were at SurvivalCon in London.
I found this which basically claims it was from 'somewhere'.
http://lexas-evolving-tattoo.tumblr.com/post/140910476973/survival-con-receipts-shade
And also that Jason just doesn't like to insult his actors considering he fired Wick for being a racist but doesn't want to announce that publically according to Raven.
EdibleExplosives
Member
The 'slut shaming' thing is complete bullshit btw, no clue about the rest. Jason made a comment about Raven basically using sex as a way to run away from her emotions or whatever, and Lindsey replied in return with a joke about Raven being unable to go for a run.
I'd hardly call that slut shaming.
figadapaura
Member
I didn't think it was slut-shaming either, but eh.
I didn't actually follow the show when Wick was fired. From what I have seen, I imagine he didn't have a choice.
I didn't actually follow the show when Wick was fired. From what I have seen, I imagine he didn't have a choice.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Can I ask how old you are?
And it is also over a year old, but it is apparantly relevant now.
Well, he was fired somewhere between seasons. We don't know actually when, wasn't announced until after the season debut. I think it is mainly a generational thing, a producer that wants desperately to keep a lid on what happens and tell his story versus a very young connected cast.
EdibleExplosives
Member
I think due to how Lexa was handled, fans have every right to be pissed, but I can't say I agree with the rest.
For one, we have no clue what went down with Ricky, we don't even know why they fell out other than Ricky didn't like how Jason was handling the social media stuff. Unless others speak up for Ricky or Ricky actually details what went down, I can't see how it's even possible to take a side.
The behind the scenes stuff we've been learning isn't exactly great but it seems pretty tame in comparison to shit that happens on other sets.
But mainly, what other shows do you watch that treat their POC, women or LGBT characters better? If this is enough to want The 100 cancelled, I feel like almost every mainstream show should be cancelled with how terribly shit representation is.
Isn't your name even a reference to Game of Thrones, a show well known for treating it's female characters terribly?
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that because other shows are shit with representation, it allows The 100 to fuck up sometimes. But I feel wanting this specific show to be cancelled is a strangely extreme reaction when you compare the representation on this show to others.
Yep, people are really fucking pissed at Jason, so they're finding anything they can (even shit that no one seemed to be bothered by months or years ago) to shit on him. I don't blame them for being angry, but it'd be nice if the shit they were angry at him for wasn't pulled out of context to make it sound worse than it is.
figadapaura
Member
Most people seem to have moved on from getting the show cancelled to just wanting Jason removed as showrunner. Mostly, they just want people to take notice.
For me, that is the same as cancelling the show, there are very few shows who got better after the creative brain behind it left. It is usually when a show goes in the crapper. Supernatural after Kripke was a small disaster, The Vampire Diaries lost its edge when Williamson left, no Darabont Walking Dead, ...
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I agree
I mean, I think you're right. It's a combination of everything; Lexa's treatment, Jason as a person and how he's been treating his cast and his fans, the notion of getting justice for a underrepresented and abused community in the media, etc. People are angry and they want the person responsible for that anger, in this instance, to be held responsible. I think it's justified, honestly.
And this username is supposed to be a joke, but Game of Thrones does treat it's women like shit. Just because my name references one very specific scene from one character doesn't mean I'm going to defend the show or the shitty things it does. I will never ever ever ever forgive them for Sansa in season 5.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Guy gets tortured, both mentally and physically and has his penis cut off and no one bats an eyelid, a woman gets raped and everyone loses their shit. Game of Thrones as you said is shitty to everyone, no one escapes the harshness of that world so I don't know why people are always so up in arms when something bad happens to a woman.
Calling for Jason to be fired is ridiculous, it's rare for a story-focused show to maintain its quality once the main showrunner has left. I do wonder if people would have still been so drastically upset if the writers had Lexa and Clarke hook up 2 or so episodes ago and then have her death play out as it did in Thirteen? There really wasn't a good way to write off Lexa without her death, plus it neatly ties into the AI storyline. It does seem strange that the writers of the show were so oblivious to the potential fallout of the dead lesbian trope to immediately kill off Lexa after getting with Clarke for the first time in the same episode.
I think there would have still been backlash if she had died the same way, but if they would have separated the love scene from the death it would have helped immensely. As it is what happened fits the death trope to such a degree it's insane to think they had no idea, in fact we know some of the writers knew, but Jason went ahead with it this way.
EdibleExplosives
Member
I understand that but getting the show cancelled, and having some sort of justice done to Jason are two separate things.
And about your username, I wasn't trying to get a dig at you, it just reminded me of an example of a show.
It's got more to do with them changing consensual sex scenes in the books to rape scenes in the tv show for no real reason at all. Hey, you want to develop a female character? Have her raped, that's some good character development right there.
It's not even a just a recent issue with the show with the Sensa controversy. Daenerys and Drogo's relationship in the first season (and the positive reaction from everyone I knew) creeped me the fuck out.
Anyway, this is getting way off topic now.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Anyway Commander Lexa has beautiful eyes
I'm really curious how Wondercon is going to go at the end of the month. Jason will obviously be asked a lot of questions regarding Lexa... my biggest fear is Alycia at the FTWD panel will be hammered with Lexa related questions and comments. I mean I'm sure she would be moved by it, but that's not what that panel is for. She's already admitted to being overwhelmed by social media so I wonder how she is taking everything.
figadapaura
Member
I can already feel the second hand embarrassment.
We already know it- the gun was seen in the last episode.
Orlando Jones just tweeted this and a link to the Variety article:
http://variety.com/2016/tv/opinion/the-100-lexa-jason-rothenberg-1201729110/ about everything going on.
Also the fans have now raised $43k towards The Trevor Project.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Lexa started a gay revolution. The Mockinggay.
The funny thing is people thought it wouldn't last, the movement by these fans is growing daily. They are getting the message out there and helping to get things noticed.
I think it's gotten larger when they became more focused on the message and educating people also which is good.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I wonder if ADC knows she has a huge gay army behind her that is literally following her from project to project
The problem is having some sort of "Justice" done on Jason would completely backfire. The only thing he is learning is to avoid writing lesbian relationships. Fans are better off thanking him and trying to get him to learn to do better instead of punishing him for trying and failing. Because if you punish someone for that, they won't try anymore in the future.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Not true. In the slightest. When Clexa first became a thing, he got so much attention from it. And he seemed really positive about it, too. His mistake was giving fans hope and then crushing it.
If Jason is anything like Javi (who is using the recent backlash to learn from it, and has said so many times, and is using Xena as the first huge step in making things right), then he'll learn to do better. To not queerbait so thoroughly for ratings. To give the awesome characters he created the respect they deserve, and to show the community that he can change.
You said it yourself, he gets positive attention and then focuses more on it. Aversely, negative attention will learn him to stay away from it. Javi might be using the backlash to improve, but it is not aimed at him. There are enough examples of people just quitting trying because there is no reward in trying and failing compared to not trying at all. A constructive attitude would go way further in achieving the goal.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
He didn't even try though. He knew how much Lexa meant to fans and he still killed her in the absolute shittiest way possible. It's not even about her dying. Jason doesn't give a fuck about the fans or his cast.
Javi has been getting absolutely roasted on Tumblr, but yet he acknowledges them all, reads them, even responds to them with true tact. That's how you grow and make things better and accept your mistakes. Instead, Jason calls his fans bullies and cries when he gets called out on his shit.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Sorry for the double post. Variety published an article today, which Somnia posted earlier, but it says something interesting. The article itself contains minor finale spoilers, but here's what I wanted to get at:
He tried, he gave her the trader girl to confirm it is not just Lexa and he showed that still loved each other. He could have just as well have Clarke ignore Lexa for the entire season.
Because they are bullying him. People calling you to be fired for story decisions, saying you are a racist that belittles actors is bullying.
And if you do think it through, still pander for the promotional aspect. There is no way to know if it was thought through or not.
Supermanisdead
Member
Honestly, I think the reaction was was justified and fine, but now calling for the showrunner to be fired or the show to be canceled is just bullshit. It's lame that the fandom can on one hand raise 30k for charity but on the other hound some guy on twitter wanting his head. Get it together.
The Silver
Member
I'd like the show to not turn into crap like what usually happens whenever a showrunner leaves, and I damn sure don't want it cancelled before the story ends
That said from I've seen the showrunner is handling this terribly and needs to get it together.
That said from I've seen the showrunner is handling this terribly and needs to get it together.
Yabberwocky
Member
It's great to see news sites are still discussing Lexa's death two weeks later! If nothing else, it might make other showrunners/creators think twice before trying the same thing. The prolonged queerbaiting on behalf of the showrunner annoys me just as much as the manner they chose to kill Lexa. I'm not apart of the fandom, and I only started watching The 100 about two months ago - but I'd seen tons of interviews of Rothenberg patting himself on the back for the show's LGBT representation, and that was one of the reasons I finally started watching.
I don't want to thread derail too much, but GoT goes to great lengths to objectify and sexualise its leading and supporting female characters at every possible opportunity (unless the actress has enough sway to be protected by her contract). There is definitely a 100% increase in brothel scenes from the book, heh. It's also really irritating to see them use sexual assault so casually for shock value. Sansa being assaulted by Ramsay seemed like a character plot motivator for Theon as much for Sansa. Hell, in the final shot of the episode they hold on Theon's face. So Sansa gets assaulted, and at the end of it all, the scene isn't even about her. (The showrunners telling the actress she was getting a new 'love interest' shows the level of thoughtfulness they went about all of this.) I was also pretty disgusted to see sexual assault being used as almost a background set dressing in Craster's Keep. GoT tries to have its cheescake and then expects to be taken seriously when it deals with delicate subjects like a bull in a china shop.
I should also say the treatment of Theon in the show was supremely unnecessary, and the Theon dick-in-a-box jokes are really shit. Whilst I understand it is harder for TV in that you can't really have an actor disappear and have a changed POV like in the books (though I still think they could have done something similar if they really cared to), but regardless, Theon's treatment was beyond gratuitous. We get it, D&D, Ramsey is a lunatic. No, audience, you didn't get it enough, let's have another prolonged torture scene that doesn't forward the plot whatsoever! Are you shocked? Shocked? Shocked?
I don't want to thread derail too much, but GoT goes to great lengths to objectify and sexualise its leading and supporting female characters at every possible opportunity (unless the actress has enough sway to be protected by her contract). There is definitely a 100% increase in brothel scenes from the book, heh. It's also really irritating to see them use sexual assault so casually for shock value. Sansa being assaulted by Ramsay seemed like a character plot motivator for Theon as much for Sansa. Hell, in the final shot of the episode they hold on Theon's face. So Sansa gets assaulted, and at the end of it all, the scene isn't even about her. (The showrunners telling the actress she was getting a new 'love interest' shows the level of thoughtfulness they went about all of this.) I was also pretty disgusted to see sexual assault being used as almost a background set dressing in Craster's Keep. GoT tries to have its cheescake and then expects to be taken seriously when it deals with delicate subjects like a bull in a china shop.
I should also say the treatment of Theon in the show was supremely unnecessary, and the Theon dick-in-a-box jokes are really shit. Whilst I understand it is harder for TV in that you can't really have an actor disappear and have a changed POV like in the books (though I still think they could have done something similar if they really cared to), but regardless, Theon's treatment was beyond gratuitous. We get it, D&D, Ramsey is a lunatic. No, audience, you didn't get it enough, let's have another prolonged torture scene that doesn't forward the plot whatsoever! Are you shocked? Shocked? Shocked?
LiquidSolid
Member
While I think trying to get the show cancelled or the guy fired is excessive, are you kidding? You want them to give him a fucking participation award or something? Sounds like the best way to not make waves or change anything to me. May as well sit down, shut up and learn to put up with the status quo that shits on your minority group.
Dude fucked up and got called out for it, if he decides to shy away from LGBT characters from now on then that's a reflection of who he is, not something you can just brush off on to the fans.
BTW, I don't know if Jason is doing anything due to the backlash but he is still editing the finale. Layne posted on Twitter a few days after all the backlash happened that she was watching Jason perform magic in the editing room for the finale.
What this exactly means who knows, but a lot can be done with editing in TV/Movies.
What this exactly means who knows, but a lot can be done with editing in TV/Movies.
The guy that actually writes minority characters and makes a mistake is a lot better for that minority group than the guy who doesn't. The Walking Dead didn't have a single gay/lesbian relationship in until the sixth season, where they have now paired up Side Character #7 with Side Character #29. But that is the show that is gaining from this blowout. It makes for instance a lot more sense for black people to complain about Gods of Egypt and the likes than to complain about The Walking Dead. The show does have a problem with black characters, but it keeps adding them and giving them work.
There are enough examples of people stopping something they should do because of the social media attention. If people go at you like that, why bother at all? The people that don't bother aren't getting hounded. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, the old saying goes. Smother with love, not with hate gets you a lot further. Because that is how he reacted in the first place when people appreciated him for it.
figadapaura
Member
Considering how active Jason was in queerbaiting his audience, you can't expect those same people to now be grateful to him. Any positive press he was happy to indulge in as a result of having an LGBTQ character has more to do with his ego than actually giving a shit about the community. That's pretty evident from the response (or lack thereof) since the episode aired. The audience don't owe him anything and we shouldn't have to settle for this crap every damn time.
This ^
I've never been in the camp of "cancel the show" or "fire" Jason, but the way he has handled himself after this has been a major let down. It's been amazing seeing Javi, Layne and other members of the team step up and acknowledge it, grow from it and try to learn. They've also openly apologized for hurting anyone, Javi still stands by his script and story, but regrets HOW they handled the death of Lexa.
I've said from the start, it's not the fact they killed Lexa. I think almost everyone knew it was going to happen, it's a matter of how and when they killed her off that made this fall into the trope and hurt the LGBTQ community.
Javi and Jason admit they knew of the trope going into the episode, but chose to go this route as he honestly did not know how big of an issue it was. Javi has handled everything since this episode in the best possible way, if Jason had done the same thing as Javi right now, the issue would still be discussed and the movement would still be happening, but Jason would not be nearly the target he is... it's how he's handled himself that has made him a target.
GordonHalfman
Member
So I'm only up to episode 4 because I'm watching on UK amazon. Anyway I googled Alycia Debnam-Carey because I wanted to
see what else she'd been in and the first hit was a Daily Mail link about the gay community being outraged.
I wonder what it could mean.
look at images of her being pretty
I wonder what it could mean.
MOTHERFUCKERS I HATE EVERYTHING
I'm still so delusional, I find it unthinkable that they would bait that hard and then use the quintessential version of the trope. Hypothetically can you imagine if its use was on purpose to play this up knowing it would hype to the extreme, and that in with dealing with AMC they knew she dies season 2, thus had plans in works for main cast season 4 (if renewed) through some CoL resurrection....
If everyone on the show was in on it and this was all a calculated move, and if they had every intention of bringing her back. How do you guys think the fandom/movement would react? The show runners would need to carefully navigate, not downplaying the good it is doing while also apologising still anyway I think. There would be widespread elation and hopefully could still serve as a positive cause going forward as long as the creators/media didn't play up the "fooled ya" aspect.
Yeah I know.. delusional as all hell, but what IF!
If everyone on the show was in on it and this was all a calculated move, and if they had every intention of bringing her back. How do you guys think the fandom/movement would react? The show runners would need to carefully navigate, not downplaying the good it is doing while also apologising still anyway I think. There would be widespread elation and hopefully could still serve as a positive cause going forward as long as the creators/media didn't play up the "fooled ya" aspect.
Yeah I know.. delusional as all hell, but what IF!
figadapaura
Member
I think any response to something like that would be filled with suspicion and trepidation. Fool me once and all that.
My expectations are very firmly low anyway.
My expectations are very firmly low anyway.
I'm curious how they are going to handle the finale since Jason is still editing it. Who knows what he'll do at this point.
I do wonder if Jason is waiting for WonderCon to address everything, I believe that's a mistake and will have been too long since the issue and won't be met the way he thinks though.
I think Lexa's death was handled quite well. She had death flags the entire season, the way she died was completely unexpected and really surprised me more than if she had died by some assassination attempt or in combat. My opinion is that The 100 as a whole handles its minority characters very well by treating them as regular people. None of the characters are defined by their race/sexuality/etc and none are exempt from the rules of the world. Was there outrage when Wells was the first major character to die?
Mind you I don't follow Jason or whoever the hell is being targeted on this. I tend to separate art from its creators, so I don't really care about the behind-the-scenes drama. Judging the show on its own, I'm quite fine with how it turned out.
Mind you I don't follow Jason or whoever the hell is being targeted on this. I tend to separate art from its creators, so I don't really care about the behind-the-scenes drama. Judging the show on its own, I'm quite fine with how it turned out.
Mighty Chin
Banned
You're like me. You watch the show and appreciate it for what it is. This nonsense about queer baiting and behind the scenes drama is pathetic. What's presented on screen is all I care about. Seriously if anybody has a problem with the show it should be the wild shift in characters like Finn and his crazy streak or Bellamy this season.
figadapaura
Member
It's easy to push queerbaiting aside like it's nonsense when you've never had to experience it. Must be nice to watch TV and not have to worry about anything.
I get the queerbaiting and the outcome on this show may not affect you personally, but to call it pathetic is just poor taste.
I personally know people who have come out of the closet and admitted to who they are because Lexa was a symbol to them and made them realize they don't have to be afraid. I also know people who have come out because of the movement happening and I know people who aren't ready to admit it yet, but feel encouraged by what is happening.
Just because it doesn't personally affect you in the way it affects others, doesn't make it pathetic.
I personally know people who have come out of the closet and admitted to who they are because Lexa was a symbol to them and made them realize they don't have to be afraid. I also know people who have come out because of the movement happening and I know people who aren't ready to admit it yet, but feel encouraged by what is happening.
Just because it doesn't personally affect you in the way it affects others, doesn't make it pathetic.